how do I deal with a defensive spouse

[Kattie]

I find I always have to calculate my words carefully and I am reluctant to say more than necessary to my husband. I am wondering how to deal with someone who turns the most innocent statements into an attack. I typically example would be me saying something like "Hey, did you happen to pick up any eggs at the store?". The response back would be something like, "Was I supposed to know this, you stupid c**t!". Or the other option is that he would ignore my question, withdraw and brood for hours. Any suggestions on how to deal/live with someone like that?

[Unreasonable]

I'd "deal with them" with a divorce.

 

I assume this was a hypothetical situation. I mean, I WOULD find it a little odd if my wife asked me if I happened to bring home eggs since I don't do the shopping or manage food inventory. What is the arrangement you have in that area?

[poetryandlyrics]

I'd call him abusive, actually. He calls you names, get defensive, and stonewalls.

[DancingFool]

He is not defensive, he is abusive. You don't deal with that, you divorce him.

[IAmFCA]

Agree with the others. Sorry.

[Kaytie]

Name calling is abuse. Don't tolerate that at all.

[Gimpyrks]

I can't tell you how I would deal with it if my guy talked to me like that (two wrongs don't make a right). Divorce this guy, there is NO reason for him to be calling you names like that and there is no reason for you to be accepting it.

[Kattie]

Is the situation hopeless then? I guess I am just used to it. He blames his name calling and foul moods on my upsetting him. I have bought in to his reasoning. However, I just don't know how to be or how to respond effectively when it happens. Mostly I just ignore it. I just cannot afford to get divorced. Unfortunately that isn't on the table. Interestingly, my boss calls be "Switzerland" because of my excellent, well honed diplomacy skills. I know how I have mastered them.

[Kaytie]

Abusers will always shift blame and blame you. The fact is, he CAN control himself, but he chooses not to. You teach people how to treat you, and he's learned that you tolerate it. That's not love, that's not respect.

[oitnb]

If you can't afford a divorce, you can certainly afford a (free) separation. This man sounds intolerable.

[poetryandlyrics]

You need to find a way out of this, even by a separation. This is not going to change. He is an abuser, and he will make you feel responsible for his actions rather than him owning up to it. You need to get out of this or your self-esteem would certainly erode.

[IAmFCA]

Abusers will always shift blame and blame you. The fact is, he CAN control himself, but he chooses not to. You teach people how to treat you, and he's learned that you tolerate it. That's not love, that's not respect.

 

Willow's advice is exactly right. The sooner you make a change, the healthier you will be as you recover afterwards. It is very difficult to feel how much energy this saps, how difficult it is to remain a viable and effective version of you, while also withstanding this sort of degrading treatment.

 

I highlighted the quote above because it says we teach others how to treat us, and it is important to recognize that you did NOT earn this kind of behavior. You ARE accepting it though, and you can not control him, you can only control yourself. This is true for anyone. Since he chooses to behave in an abusive manner, you will choose to remove yourself from the abuse. Its very simple.

 

Rethink the affordability problem: if your finances are likely to stay the same, you will need to find a way to afford moving out. In some jurisdictions, once you move out and after a certain period of time, you can get a divorce without the other person agreeing.

[Unreasonable]

Pardon me, but I looked through your posting history. This sounds like the tip of an enormous iceberg.

 

What are your circumstances whereby you cannot get a divorce or at least a separation? Why are you allowing yourself to live like this?

[Mari]

Is the situation hopeless then? I guess I am just used to it. He blames his name calling and foul moods on my upsetting him. I have bought in to his reasoning. However, I just don't know how to be or how to respond effectively when it happens. Mostly I just ignore it. I just cannot afford to get divorced. Unfortunately that isn't on the table. Interestingly, my boss calls be "Switzerland" because of my excellent, well honed diplomacy skills. I know how I have mastered them.

 

Generally people that do witness a lot of conflict between their parents and can't do anything about it become "Switzerland" cause they'll do anything to avoid confrontation. But yes, you are in an abusive relationship. If his reasoning is valid that his foul moods are caused by you upsetting him, then I'd say you get to kick him and say it's because of his foul mood that you were left with no choice but to kick him.

 

The other thing could be that you're abusive. If you in the past have repeatedly said that people that forget to bring home eggs or groceries are ignorant and stupid. And then you asked him that question then yes I could see why he would be upset. But I highly doubt you've said anything like this to him. If anything he feels like he's not good enough to remember eggs on his own, and asking him reminds him of how you are a much better egg rememberer than he is, and that he's not good enough for an egg remember like you. So might as well put you down to bring you to his level.

 

So are you shooting for therapy for him or is there a date for when you can get a divorce?

[Kattie]

Unfortunately we have way too much debt for me to afford to live on my own. I may be stuck for a few years yet. I believe that liabilities have to be split when people separate or divorce and I cannot manage that and support myself. Perhaps in about 3 years though. My health is starting to worsen, so that is also a consideration.

 

The example would have been when he goes and picks up the stuff that he is out of. I do most the shopping and all the cooking, but he likes to pick his own fruit and snacks. If he realizes that we are low on something (e.g. milk) or asks me what we need, he will also buy it. I don't send him out on errands for anything or get upset if something isn't bought. I land up picking stuff up almost every other day anyway and can always wait, as there is always something we can eat in the house. There are many such examples of his defensiveness not related to food. If anyone has any ideas on how I can do better navigating my way through these waters so he doesn't get his back up in every benign situation I would appreciate any tips. He won't seek counselling because he feels that if I were a better communicator he would not have these reactions.

 

Mari is correct. My parents were really difficult people, but more predictable and I could manage by living my own life and never being home. My free time is very limited now. My husband has his expectations of how my time should be spent and likes things kept on a schedule. For example when he is done his exercise, he expects dinner on the table at exactly 5 PM. I work my schedule to accommodate this every single day. No deviations are permitted or he gets angry and won't eat my dinner. He'll feed himself instead (e.g. bowl of cereal) and will get very upset with me. Same, sometimes, if he doesn't want/like what dinner is. Lately he has a dislike of me serving potatoes with the meal.

 

I'm a broken down, 50 something old lady, without a life, anybody for support or a life of my own. For 30 years this is all I know. Practically speaking, there isn't even a viable way out because I have been financially wrecked too. He gets a $10,000 camera which he used about 5 times, and I get to cut my own hair! At no time do the clothes I am wearing add up to more than $25-$30. If I speak up, he retaliates and makes me more miserable. He can be nasty. I never understood why people do this to others?? Anyhow I threw away my life believing that marriage is forever. I hope others can learn from my mistakes.

[Seraphim]

You CAN afford to leave. This man is abusive and controlling. Call a domestic abuse hotline, call women's shelters. Women's shelters will take you and often find you a place to live until you can support yourself.

 

Do this for yourself today! There is no reason whatsoever that he can have a $10,000 camera and you can't afford a haircut. Empower yourself by taking your power back!

[IAmFCA]

You two will never be debt-free, and you do not need to split the debts evenly anyhow.

 

The debts are not your concern.

 

Example: one spouse can declare bankruptcy without consent of the other spouse, and get relieved of all debts, leaving all debts the sole responsibility of the other spouse.

 

As long as you are together, you are at risk.

[Unreasonable]

You sound a bit like my mom. She was (is) verbally abused and my dad would pull all the same crap your man did. Last thanksgiving we were over there for and he berated her for cooking something not the way he like it and made a total scene. I was embarrassed, FOR HIM, because of what of an ass he was being, in front of guests no less!

 

In fact, when I was around 8, she asked me if a should divorce him. I didn't know what to say, I was 8!

 

If I could go back in time, knowing what I know now, I would have given her an emphatic YES. Now she's a broken down 68 year old women, and he's 83 and still probably will out live her because of the stress he's put on her. She has to quickly hang up the phone whenever he walks in the room, even when she's talking to US, because he gets jealous someone's paying attention to her and not him. You want to end up there??

 

Trust me, until you steel yourself to do this, the circumstances are NEVER going to be right to do it. Stop using debt as an excuse, cause if it's not that thing it's going to be another.

[Kattie]

Thanks all. Interestingly, I thought that by the way people complain most relationships land up where mine is. I am glad that they don't. It has been a lot of stress. I will try to be strategic though and get away with the least setbacks and damages. I need to be able to live and eat and have a reasonable, sustainable existence. I won't abandon my pets (my source of joy) in my haste either. Does anyone know whether someone can legally separate but live at the same address (more or less as we are anyway) so I can control my own money. At least I see him for what he is... a big bully. I don't berate myself for not being more than I am anymore but I did let myself down by accepting this life.

[Seraphim]

Getting separated and staying at the same address kind of defeats the purpose of getting away from him ,no? If you are living in the same space with him separated or not he will still treat you exactly the same.

[Kattie]

Yes. But I have to get control of my money or I can never leave. We owe 1/4 million!!!

[Lorem Ipsum]

Go to the women's shelter and see if they can recommend a credit counselling service. Depending on your financial situation, you may be able to consolidate everything into one, or it may be time to declare bankruptcy, it's all going to depend on what happened. Ask whoever's at the shelter if you can bring pets. If not, ask if they know of a shelter that accepts them. If there isn't a shelter that will accept pets, then you are going to have to save up for an apartment that will allow you to bring your pets with you and once you're ready to go, go, take it all and don't go back. But no, staying in your current home, while a nice idea, isn't going to get you away from your husband. Even if you had a granny flat in the basement, do you honestly think he'd respect your privacy? If it were possible for the two of you to be civil to each other in the same house, you wouldn't be in the position you are right now.

 

Also, so he eats cereal for dinner -- who cares? If he's going to pitch a fit that his dinner isn't cooked to his exact specifications when he wants he, he can either cook for himself or shift for himself. Let him eat cereal every night for a year if that's what he wants to do. Don't jeopardise your job for his selfishness. This isn't about him being defensive, it's about him being controlling. It's not that you're a bad communicator, it's that he expects you to be able to read his mind and do his bidding. I think things like the flip-out over the eggs might also be a "it's not *my* responsibility to keep the kitchen well-stocked, it's yours" type thing.

 

Why aren't you in control of your money? Does he demand that you hand over your salary? Do you have a bank account that he only has access to?

[Kattie]

Everything is joint. It lands up that way anyways seeing that spouses can use credit and stick the other person to pay off their bills. He snapped again tonight because of 2 things. Though I washed the dishes from breakfast and those I dirtied preparing dinner, I hadn't emptied the dish rack. He went to open a new brand of beer, and I asked if the bottle cap was a twist off. He tried but it didn't seem to be. After he opened it, I saw the ring along the top and told him that I it looks like it is. He snapped over that saying that if I think I'm so strong, I can open them from now on. My observation was not a put down, he just interpreted it that way. I am actually very civil to him. I don't even try to defend my position anymore. What would be the point? I simply either ignore or walk away as if he were just joking around. A few times when he has gone over the top on something, he does come back and say it was a joke.

 

I think that shelters are for those people living under the threat of violence. My issues are just annoyances. Tonight after my chores got done, I simply went out, and now he has gone out. Yeah! Isn't marriage wonderful.

[Seraphim]

I think you are denying you are an abused person. Shelters are not just for people experiencing physical abuse.

[Mari]

I realized I actually didn't answer your original question. Defensive people can be defensive because of low self esteem or because they feel they are not worthy of the person they are with or something else I don't understand. So to understand this try this. Think of your favorite Actor/hot person and imagine they're over and they ask you: "Are the curls in your hair natural?" Do you say:

1) Why do you think I'm a fake person because of my fake curls?

2) Do you not like women with curls?

3) Yeah, they're totally fake, I put them in every morning, they look real don't they

 

You may answer with the first two answers if you feel like you're going to lose something by sharing this info, because you care about what the other person thinks. Similarly, in the bottle cap question, he looks pretty stupid for not figuring out that it was a twist off. He could shrug if off as not a big deal but instead he puts you down by saying you're not as strong as him. And that way you'll love him more because although he is stupid, you're not as strong and still within his league When in reality you don't even care and are willing to leave now.

 

So Possible solutions you could try:

1) Have a third party suggest the change you want to see since he won't care about what they think of him.

2) Use the complement sandwich where you say a good thing, then a bad thing, and then a good thing.

3) Stoop to his level and destroy the marriage by getting deeply offended, storming off and slamming the door behind you for even the slightest displeasure on his part. Then enjoy reading a magazine for an hour while he worries about why you're so angry

 

You aren't in a physically abusive relationship but you are in a verbally abusive one. He gets upset and uses that to define your schedule. Your schedule is tight and limits interaction with others so that it's less likely that you will leave. Again, this is low self esteem because if he had high self esteem, you would have the freedom to do whatever you wanted and if you left him, he would take it as your loss. But if you leave him now, he thinks it's his loss cause he thinks he sucks, and so he's placed controls to prevent you from having the opportunity to leave.

 

Looks like you're choosing the therapy route. Marriages can be really really good and enjoyable to the point that just the other person's presence brings you relief from your own worries. It seems like your marriage lacks love and respect. Both from you and from him. I'm sure his trying to be controlling to get that love isn't helping you give it. But you can define what is acceptable to you as long as you accept the consequences first. If you can accept that you can leave him, you can then tell him what is acceptable to you and it's his choice to take it or leave it. At that point I would expect him to change, or maybe he's too old so maybe not.