tornst Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Based in what I've heard, when most women see a guy they find very attractive, they assume a lot about him, mainly that he either has a girlfriend or he has a lot of options. So say she finds out neither of these are true. What if there's an attractive guy who is shyer than she thought or inexperienced? Is this suddenly a turn-off, as if now she assumes there must be something else up with him for him not to be very smooth and experienced with women? Is an attractive guy expected to have a much higher level of confidence and if he doesn't have that much he's dismissed as insecure, even if he still has some confidence in him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I think that women and men alike form expecations in their mind based on how others look. It isn't always right, it's not fair, but it definitely does happen. I think we all do it on some level. I think if a woman finds that the attractive guy in question is relatively shy or inexperienced, she may find it quite endearing depending on other factors and how well she knows the guy. I think if there's a guy who is in his late 20s/early 30s, attractive and successful, yet still inexperienced with women, then I think it may be a turn off because she would question why the guy is so lacking in experience (does he have emotional baggage, is he gay, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmund Exley Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 In most cases personality can trump looks. So if you are attractive, work on coming out of your shell. You don't need to be 'smooth and experienced', just interesting and personable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me82 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 How about that. "...when most men see a girl they find very attractive, they assume a lot about her, mainly that she either has a boyfriend or she has a lot of options. -Or she has a problem. " Yes, expected to have a higher confidence level, but this is not what happens in real life. I know some guys that go for a girl 8-10 even when they are 4-6 (not even thinking of a possibility of being rejected). And they somehow always get the girl. (confidence has nothing to do with experience). I don't think a shy guy is less attractive. It can be a charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laninaperdida Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The good news about being an attractive guy is that girl LOVE to compete - especially with each other. It's not as intimidating for girls to pursure an attractive guy because of this. Apply a little role reversal however, & the poor good-looking girl usually goes unapproached. Guys place a lot of subconscious thought into how loyal a girl is (I believe it's the main thing they look for in LTR) & hot girls are more likely to be assumed to cheat than the avearage ones. Basically, all people (hot, ugly, average, whatever) have assumptions made so don't get consumed in them... Just be you, In general, however, an inexperienced guy is a turn off. So, go bang some girls. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIN2000 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I do not think that there is simple answer to your question. Such matters are not as easy as a math problem or an equation. Humans are very complex, therefore I would expect the unexpected. Anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 In general, however, an inexperienced guy is a turn off. So, go bang some girls. Problem solved. Thank you for the lolz! And I just noticed, you're a woman too. I'm laughing even harder now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny15 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Thank you for the lolz! And I just noticed, you're a woman too. I'm laughing even harder now. Yep....lol. She makes it sound so easy. Like getting a drink of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yep....lol. She makes it sound so easy. Like getting a drink of water. I lol'd at her bluntness and because what she said (however slightly abrasive) is actually quite true. And yeah, it's much easier for women. All they have to do is show up. Unless the guy in question is willing to look for women very below his standards (which many of us won't do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I think when someone is actually interested - they make the effort to put themselves out there a bit and will open themselves somewhat to getting to know someone. So rather that it being about "oh it's cause she thinks he is hot" or "oh it's cause she thinks he is inexperienced"....no, I think it is that those women who are not pursuing him are simply not all that interested. When I like a guy, am interested, I just want to get to know him as a person. I'm not putting up those kind of roadblocks. I put up those kind of road blocks (assuming someone is this or that) when the interest is lower. So in reverse; don't bother trying to convince any woman that you are anything. Cause one who is actually interested, this minor crap won't stop her from trying to get to know you. my two cents. I think people do too much rationalizing for other peoples cop outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny15 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I lol'd at her bluntness and because what she said (however slightly abrasive) is actually quite true. I know it's true. Atleast the inexperienced part is. Since it's generally deemed a turn off. Unless the guy in question is willing to look for women very below his standards (which many of us won't do). At some point a guy is going to have to. Within reason of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorem Ipsum Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 And yeah, it's much easier for women. All they have to do is show up. Unless the guy in question is willing to look for women very below his standards (which many of us won't do). I'm sorry, but you're contradicting yourself. If certain men aren't willing to look below their standards, then women who aren't up to their standards have to do more than "just show up", like not even try or bother showing up. Or they will have to lower themselves to the "you'll do for now" treatment of jonny15, which is its own piece of soul-destroying hell. It bugs me to no end to hear things like "women just have to show up" "women have it so easy" "women can get any man they want" -- uh, no they can't and you've just proven it with your statement. Sure, the model-perfect might, but they are less than 1% of the total population of women. That means that there are an awful lot of women who can't just snap their fingers and get any man they want. You only have to read the forums here one day to see how true that is. Men may have a different problem in being the ones expected to do the approaching/overcoming their fear of rejection but that doesn't mean it's better or worse than the problem of wondering when/if you'll ever be the one chosen (and why not? Why doesn't he like me? Am I wearing the wrong thing? Is my nose too big? What is wrong with me because I don't get asked out like my friends do?). OP, people make judgements about other people all the time -- it's what we do. Some women might look at such a guy in your hypothetical scenario and think he must be a player. Or that he's stuck up. Or that a snowball would have a better chance with him than they would. It depends entirely on the woman and her life experiences. Anyone who is going to give you the boot because you're not as experienced as they would like you to be isn't worth your time. We all take different paths in life and we don't all learn the same things at the same time. So long as you're willing to be open about it, take constructive criticism and work on it, you can improve. That will take finding the right person for you that you feel comfortable with, which isn't easy but it is what we're all trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 It bugs me to no end to hear things like "women just have to show up" "women have it so easy" "women can get any man they want" Two out of three ain't bad. Women can't get any man they want, but their role in dating is largely showing up and "letting" the man pay (oh, and they have to get dressed up and put on makeup...which they do anyway, to impress/compete with each other, and because most of them seem to enjoy clothes/style stuff). I've seen men literally fight each other over ugly, overweight women. When I'm in line at the grocery store, the (ugly, overweight) woman behind the register almost always has a wedding ring on. Any remotely-attractive woman will have "beta orbiters" hovering around her, desperate for sex. Women can viciously criticize how sex-obsessed men are while simultaneously profiting from it (you think all these guys are paying attention to you and being nice to you and spending money on you because they're really into your personality?). I'd trade situations with women in a heartbeat. Free from economic expectations (most guys don't care about what kind of job you have), able to get sex with minimal effort, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny15 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Men may have a different problem in being the ones expected to do the approaching/overcoming their fear of rejection but that doesn't mean it's better or worse than the problem of wondering when/if you'll ever be the one chosen (and why not? Why doesn't he like me? Am I wearing the wrong thing? Is my nose too big? What is wrong with me because I don't get asked out like my friends do?). It's much, much, much, worse to have to be the one doing the approaching and taking the risk of rejection, which is almost always going to happen for some. And LOL at wearing the wrong thing. So hard, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornst Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 There's truth in all of your responses. Ultimately, I agree that another person's assumptions shouldn't matter too much, though I've noticed patterns that might make those assumptions worth taking a look at to solve the problem. Here's my angle, and the reason why I'm asking this. I've grown up to be an attractive guy. I believe it now, and enough people have told me I'm good looking or even "stunning" for there to be truth to it. I don't act like it, though, because growing up I was overweight, ugly, and hit my growth spurt very late. It took a few years to gain self-esteem, but I can safely say for the past 4 years I've been happy with who I am. Being unattractive growing up has made me more humble, polite, grounded, given me a sense of humor, and made me considerate of others now. I like myself, wouldn't trade lives with anyone else if I could, but I don't think the world of myself. I've put myself out there - approaching girls, asking them out, going on dates. They always lose interest. I've built up many of the right traits and have a lot of intriguing things about me. People used to say "work on yourself before you look for someone," and I did just that. What makes me think there might be higher expectations, beyond just putting myself out there and taking the first steps initiating with a girl, is what a few of the girls I've been with have said and done. At first, they were very interested, and when they found out I never had a previous relationship, they called me a ladies man who was playing the field. After knowing me a bit more, and seeing me for who I am, they realized I wasn't so good at this whole game, and were gone soon after that. Now, it's easy to say these girls aren't worth my time, but this is the case with all women for me. No woman has shown clear-cut direct interest with me, like itsallgrand said they'd do. I honestly can't tell you what it's like to have a girl you like pursue you. They'll go along with my interest, for a little bit, but I've always been the one to initiate everything. And yet I'm supposed to be this really attractive guy with all these good things going for him? That contradicts the way women I pursue act towards me, and I mean ALL women I pursue. That's my dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I never make assumptions based on looks. I've met not very good looking guys who were really charming and cute guys who were very awkward and shy. Looks don't matter to me anyway...I've rejected many handsome guys. It's about personality and chemistry. As to lack of experience, well, it depends on a/age and b/what you mean by inexperienced. If I meet someone over 40 and he's never been with a woman, it would make me wonder. Would it turn me off? Not really. If I was into him and he was a nice guy, I'd give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornst Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 It's much, much, much, worse to have to be the one doing the approaching and taking the risk of rejection, which is almost always going to happen for some. And LOL at wearing the wrong thing. So hard, I know. See, I like being a man and doing the approaching and initiating. I like being behind the wheel and definitely don't consider it a burden. I only wish women would be more honest and not so flaky all the time. It'd be nice to go for a girl who generally wants me to go for her and let's me know I'm making all the right moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I wasn't contradicting myself. I was saying that, in general, women have a much easier time simply getting laid (not talking about a LTR) than men do. I mean, it's all but a known fact, in my opinion. Men generally have to work harder to find sexual partners or have one night stands than women do, especially if we're talking about men and women who are about equal on the attraction scale. What I meant was that men can tip the odds in their favor here if they are willing to significantly lower their standards. This is often why you hear of men with FWBs who don't want to wife them because the woman in question isn't good looking enough for a LTR. This is why both parties should know in advance that "hey, this is a FWB situation, and nothing more" so no one gets their hopes up and gets hurt. At least, that's how I do it (and I would never say this as my reason, but it's happened to me in the past, being honest). I know a girl (not particularly attractive, average at best, and I'm being generous) who was newly single, and has had MANY sexual partners since her breakup earlier this year. She was showing me some of these guys (many were online guys), and some of them were WAY above her on the looks scale. I'm confident in my looks and let me tell you, it's not always easy finding a sexual partner (especially if you don't want to go that much below your standards). It just proves my point, women generally have an easier time getting laid, if that is what they want. And that's all I was saying. I wasn't suggesting that women have it easier in getting into a LTR. I think that is equally difficult for both men and women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yes, so much this. Everything you said = 1000% true. Thank you! While I stand by what I said that men and women have it equally difficult in finding a LTR, women definitely have more power in dating, especially when it comes to casual sex and not having to pay for the first few dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflective82 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yes, we assume they are really confident, and that they have loads of options with really hot women, seeing as even an average guy can get a hot woman as long as he is confident, or got a good job, personality etc. It isn't bad if they don't have tons of confidence, but insecurity isn't a turn on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmarple Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yes, indeed, men fight over ugly, overweight women every day. Ummmmm...can you tell me in which parallel universe does that happen? Because I've certainly never seen it happen myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflective82 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Ah but you're assuming that these "beta orbiters" are people the woman would want to be with Blue Spiral- most of the time, they aren't for one reason or another. So apart from it being a mild ego boost, it doesn't really do any good. Personally I think men have it easier but each gender always thinks that. I actually had a guy tell me the other day he wasn't bothered about being single at 30 as men get better as they get older and he was going to wait a few years then get someone younger- tell me a woman who does that! It's also better to get rejected at the start than get rejected once you've already got attached after sex or when you've started the relationship- men most likely get rejected when they approach and women during the relationship as I think more men break it off than women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I think, tornst, that it is just generally not all that easy and every day to find mutual interest and give and take between two people...period. We all look for that, want it, and have our fair shares of being rejected. Yes, women too. Certainly. Maybe all I'd suggest is watching and knowing when to back off if a woman is not giving back, reciprocating...don't get sucked into the pursuit. I think a lot of men get caught up in this game called pursuit - wanting to be the driver, and a lot of times, often outright ignoring the signals a woman is giving that she isn't all that interested. You know, the whole "i'll win her over" idea. I honestly think it is only a matter of time before you DO experience a woman showing you she likes you, wants to pursue you, because you sound like a solid guy overall with a lot to offer. And you have a good attitude, and have a good head about this whole dating thing... so I wish you luck ! I hope you won't worry too much about the gender debates...cause at the end of the day...what you are really looking for is someone who can appreciate you, and who you can appreciate ....you will find her..or maybe she will find YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny15 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 See, I like being a man and doing the approaching and initiating. I like being behind the wheel and definitely don't consider it a burden. I only wish women would be more honest and not so flaky all the time. It'd be nice to go for a girl who generally wants me to go for her and let's me know I'm making all the right moves. You might like it, but not every guy enjoys doing it. I see no fun in the anxiety and possible embarresment/humilation that comes with rejection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I agreee with you on the age thing, especially if these women want to have kids. A lot of men do unfortunately stigmatize women over a certain age as "why is she still single, what is wrong with her?" I personally don't give a rat's ass about a woman's age...as long as she's attractive and the personality is there, I'm game. But as far as someone getting hurt through a FWB situation...that's why both parties just need to be clear. But yeah, I usually hear that one person usually gets hurt. But I still think women have it easier in entering a FWB, if that's what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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