Be honest with me here...

[abysmal]

So I really want to know just how much looks factor in with being rejected, at least with girls.. is it always the reason? A significant part?

 

I've really been trying to improve my appearance and the obsession with it has gotten out of hand. I ask relatives, coworkers, etc. what is wrong, and they'll tell me that I'm okay, average, sometimes handsome, that there's nothing wrong with my looks and I have a warped perception of myself. That I need to talk more. I'm 5'8, 120. Girls won't talk to me unless it's an acquaintance or something task-related.

 

Either they're lying or there is something severely offputting about my social skills. I don't even have any guy friends. None. zero. I work a retail job with tons of girls my age and go to University, so the door's wide open to at least make some good friends. I'm not shooting for the moon, either. I've seriously tried broadening my horizons to no avail. What usually happens if/when I go out on dates is that it will usually go really well. I'm very cordial, attentive, ask lots of questions and show sincere interest, never making a move or questionable gesture.. later on I always get the "just friends" talk.. Last year I met a girl from online, had a nice meet up that day, went so well that she invited me to her parents' the next day. We had a wonderful time at their house, and later I get that exact text. And the evening couldn't have been more perfect. Lately there has been a repeat of that same thing. Met a girl at work, similar circumstances unfold except the friends talk.. I asked her to give me a call sometime weeks ago... nothing. She won't talk to me at work, either.

 

I don't understand and I have zero foundation to get started because I can't pinpoint what needs improvement.

[Ms Darcy]

It depends on the girl. One might think you too skinny, another too talkative, another too skinky, etc.

[Vaglar]

Women are not like men, so looks don't matter that much. It's still important to have a physically attractive bf, but what matters is the inside - personality, chemistry, etc.

There is nothing you can do about your face. If you are overweight or too skinny, eat more/work out so you get in shape, but do it for you. Get some nice clothes if you feel better in your skin that way. But again, looks don't matter much for women.

 

Your problem may be that you are nice BUT you don't make a move/behave like someone interested romantically. You have to break free from the friendzone if you want more by SHOWING you want more. If you don't, they see as a good friend and that's it.

[Silverbirch]

I think also if you like a girl, you should ask her on a date for say lunch or dinner, music or whatever rather than just a friend type thing some people do together like go to a bookstore. I like bookstores, but usually like to go on my own. If your family and people who know you say it's because you need to talk more, then that very likely is the issue. Maybe you just need to relax more and your natural personality will come out more and it will be easier for you to speak to girls.

[abysmal]

I try to dress nice, smell nice, keep up with grooming, etc. Often times I find myself staring at the floor or looking away, and some girls that are acquaintances say that I need to have more confidence, but I've been trying to steer the conversations to find out whether I am attractive in the least, and they won't give me an answer. As I've been burned before by girls I really cared about, it's easy to be negative. I'm really tired of the same routine and I want to make some close friends with girls as I don't get along with guys that well.

 

With this girl at work, we had a great get-together at a restaurant, but towards the end she said she wasn't sure about when we could follow-up because she would be busy. So I kind of panicked and texted her asking to spend time with her the next day (under platonic implications because I was afraid of rejection), she called and we had a great conversation but I kind of let her know that I wanted to spend time with her individually (again, as a friend).

 

She seemed fine with that, and weeks later I asked her if she would like to visit the bookstore the week after spring break. "Sure!!" She seemed really enthused. The next day I asked about a specific time and she said "maybe.. I might be able to."

 

We haven't really talked since then and I'm wondering if it's too late. I've been really sad about the situation, as it rarely happens that a girl initiates something with me.

[Ms Darcy]

If that is your definition of being burned by a girl then I suggest that you lighten up. She lost interest. Lots of people do. It is ok. You just keep being the best you that you can be and don't let your ego take over.

[Silverbirch]

I could be wrong, but I would suggest you have counselling and explore what it is that keeps you from having guy friends. I think it is possible that the girls could feel a threatened by this - that if they became romantically involved with you, that you would become overly-dependent in the relationship. I'd say it is likely that with counselling you would become more confident.

 

My own son and my exes son are definitely not the mainstream macho type of guys. They are very different to each other, and the exes son was treated badly by other kids at school and in his early teen years. My son was always a bit different to a lot of kids but NEVER cared and told people what he thought. He always seemed to have a type of "following" and other kids would copy things he did. For the step-son, he struggled for a long time until he came around to not caring. He's academically bright and in time, he made friends with other guys who are a lot like him, and he became quite the extrovert. Not to say you need to become an extrovert. If you just had one or two guy friends who you have a rapport with, I think that would make all the difference to your situation. A male counsellor could likely help you with this.

[abysmal]

If that is your definition of being burned by a girl then I suggest that you lighten up. She lost interest. Lots of people do. It is ok. You just keep being the best you that you can be and don't let your ego take over.

Well, what I wasn't specifically talking about this instance.. I'm just stating that it is difficult for me because in the past I've had girls give me this talk but insist on keeping me around as a friend. It's not about ego, and with this girl I can respect her feelings, but at the same time have no idea what the cause of her distancing could be.

 

With this girl, I just want to remain platonic friends, which I told her in part because of my fears but also because we work together. so no worries, I really, really, like her. Don't really feel like I deserve her as a partner but still intrigued by her personality and charming ways, so I just don't really know where to go from here, or what to say. Is there anything I can say? At least not to make it awkward? She really seemed into me initially so I don't know what happened. I did complain to her before just once about a past relationship but really only because it correlates to me having a difficult time meeting people... perhaps it may be that fellow coworkers have said things to her to shy away from me. I though about just asking her to café or something after finals. Sound reasonable?

 

As for my friendship with guys, most of them seem to either be really snobby fraternity guys that I know, so no cohesiveness there, and I have a couple of guy friends who work 9-5 jobs from high school. I'm a bit sensitive with my feelings, never had a father figure in my life, so admittedly I am soft.

 

Is there really anything I can do to sort of smooth this over with her?

[abysmal]

Silverbirch I will definitely consider it.

[Silverbirch]

Oh that's fine not to like the frat guys - likely in your favor. I do think you should be connecting with guys a lot like yourself. Maybe the girls are also confused because on the one hand you talk about them as though you like them more as a friend, then you tell them you want a platonic relationship. Maybe it's in the wording, and it is more accurate to say that you like them, you are interested in them, but you would like to get to know them as friends and that you can both take it from there.

[Klokwurk]

You seem to have problems that are affecting your ability to have a social life.

 

Seek ways to improve yourself, like eating more and lifting weights.

 

Or not.

[Klokwurk]

Oh, and to answer your question: looks play a significant role, but you are nowhere near that stage yet if you cannot even maintain a single friendship with the most laid-back half of the human species.

[abysmal]

Oh that's fine not to like the frat guys - likely in your favor. I do think you should be connecting with guys a lot like yourself. Maybe the girls are also confused because on the one hand you talk about them as though you like them more as a friend, then you tell them you want a platonic relationship. Maybe it's in the wording, and it is more accurate to say that you like them, you are interested in them, but you would like to get to know them as friends and that you can both take it from there.

Yeah, I am kind of an introvert so it's really difficult, and usually if I make guy friends it usually just doesn't go very well. ie some acquaintances of mine have an affinity for hitting the alcohol pretty hard, whereas on the other end of the spectrum, there's a guy that I am kind of friends with who is very pious and devout with religion.. which is perfectly fine, but I just don't have much in common with him to talk about.

 

So I was pretty wound tight with this girl for the very reason that we share a lot of interests. Her personality is incredible, she has lots of hobbies including writing music, carpentry, dancing, fencing, and she is fluent in a second language. So as you can see, pretty enticing & I want to be close to her. It's not so much infatuation as it is admiration. Maybe I pushed too soon or maybe she has eyes for someone else now, but I really want to be her friend. Sure wish I could read her mind. We clicked really well. She's cute and all, kind of in a nerdy way, but there are a lot of pretty girls & it's her personality that I adore.

 

I guess I'll ask her about after finals.

 

My confidence continues to fragment and it doesn't help that no one really engages in conversation with me, so part of my worries, klokwurk, is that it has something to do with my appearance. Guys just don't talk to me; I mean, communication is a two-way street and it seems like I usually end up making all the effort. It's tiring.

[Stay_home]

You don't always have to look like Brad Pitt, just be interesting. What's different about you than any other guy? What are some of your hobbies? Don't have any? Get some, be able to challenge your women intellectually. Make good conversation, you've got to work with the tools you have.

[Capricorn3]

I've really been trying to improve my appearance and the obsession with it has gotten out of hand.

 

some girls that are acquaintances say that I need to have more confidence, but I've been trying to steer the conversations to find out whether I am attractive in the least, and they won't give me an answer..

Maybe that's where the problem lies? By your own admission, you are obsessed with your looks and even try steering conversations with people to find out if they think you are attractive or not. Many people may find that rather off-putting - hence they won't answer you and also why they don't show much interest. Just a thought.

[Ms Darcy]

I think part of the problem is that you are not separating friendsship from romantic pursuit. You need people who are just friends and nothing more and that means guys.

[memento]

I think you might be annoying these women, like texting them way too often, and with stupid conversation such as "why am I not attractive?" or whatever you send them. Unless a girl is a really good friend, i.e, you can take a dump in front of her. Do not bombard her or anyone with questions like that. Do not be over eager to be friends they will think your up to something. And if you do want to friend zone someone, don't tell them that unless they ask you out.

[abysmal]

I think you might be annoying these women, like texting them way too often, and with stupid conversation such as "why am I not attractive?" or whatever you send them. Unless a girl is a really good friend, i.e, you can take a dump in front of her. Do not bombard her or anyone with questions like that. Do not be over eager to be friends they will think your up to something. And if you do want to friend zone someone, don't tell them that unless they ask you out.

Well, with this girl in particular I can count on one hand the number of times I have texted her since meeting her a month and a half ago.. about five, maybe six exactly. Texted her the night we met, a few days later when she was sick and wishing her well, after our get-together, after she called me, and then the evening before spring break when I told her that I hope she has a great time & that I was looking forward to getting to know her better. Bad move, or not persistent enough?

 

As for the whole looks conversation, I really only consult friends at work who are either male or older acquaintances, and relatives. I ask them precisely because I do not understand why no one wants to give me a chance. I'm not extra special, but I feel like I have a good deal to offer.

 

Maybe having guy friends would help, but to be honest, I don't want guy friends. Is that bad?

 

Do you guys think I should try once more with her or completely forget? I asked her to call me whenever she'd like, she hasn't, and we haven't spoken in two weeks (but I haven't seen her at work but once since then).

 

 

 

,

[Klokwurk]

Maybe having guy friends would help, but to be honest, I don't want guy friends. Is that bad?

 

Yes, that is bad. Very bad.

[abysmal]

Yes, that is bad. Very bad.

I don't see how, honestly, especially considering my soft personality.. I mean, there was one guy I met in my theatre class last semester, and he offered me to go over to his place with his fiancé and choose a Christmas film to watch. I declined because a) my work schedule the following morning, b) Didn't want to be a burden/was thinking about the awkwardness of silence/having nothing to discuss, etc. Met him again periodically this spring, most recently at the university library, where he told me he was transferring to law school in Minnesota. Was very happy for him and I like the guy and all, but inadvertently I neglected him and his offers because of my insecurities; my heart is just set on romance, working from the top-down on the social hierarchy I guess.. Then with the religious young man I am friends with, I accepted his offer to prayer circles, but again it was uncomfortable because the leader would ask me questions about scripture and my interpretation and I'm not versed at all. I am Agnostic.

 

My biggest mistake was the fear here that she would leave me, I was so afraid because I connected with her personality so well. I'm not trying to seem possessive, and in fact I saw a picture of her and a guy friend on facebook as her profile picture, with his arm around her waist. Who she spends her time with is none of my business, just want to get to know her, spend time here and there, need closeness in my life with someone. Never had it.

 

If someone would give me advice about what I should do, if I should attempt contact, I seriously cannot tell you how much I would appreciate it.

[Ms Darcy]

The issue is that you cannot seem to leave women as friends and you seemingly start pursuing them as dates.

[abysmal]

The issue is that you cannot seem to leave women as friends and you seemingly start pursuing them as dates.

You're correct. I try to seize every opportunity because they do not come around. ever. But really I want something strong and romantic erring on the side of being platonic, don't want anything physical but am seeking closeness on an emotional level. It's not that I cling to every woman, though.. it just happens when I meet someone who really seems to have a lot of charisma, a wonderful personality, and of course if they're attractive in some way then that seals it.. which has actually only happened twice now that I've met someone like that. I just want someone like that in my life. I guess I am in a hurry to bond with someone, a bit worried because I don't want to look back on this period of my life feeling bitter.. and because I mean well, I can't attest to whether I am attractive, but I am very kind and thoughtful.. and not the kind of false compassionate personality who seeks to take advantage, or is only kind to others for his benefit.

[Klokwurk]

Dude, it doesn't matter if you have a soft personality or whatever - you aren't the only sensitive guy out there.

 

You do not have to seek out "bro" type guys to be considered a man, but you DO need to socialize and play with the boys.

 

I read your last post. You seem to think you are more genuine than everyone else. People are nice only to "take advantage," but not you, OHHHH, not you... Ask yourself, what makes you so much more special than everyone else? How is your personality not just as false as everyone else's?

 

My point is, you are not as special as you think, and you need to love people for who they are if you EVER hope to become intimate with them on an emotional level, boy or girl. The fact that you don't want any guy friends shows you don't really want emotional intimacy - you want a romance, jumping over having to realize you are just as fake as everyone else, and so avoiding having to take them into your life as people worthy of your friendship.

 

This is not a healthy way to be, my friend.

[abysmal]

Well, just to reiterate, and I appreciate your perspective, I'm really just looking for something platonic but strong, not necessarily Romance, but something that will endure and last for years. Some people my age will come on here and other places worried about and venting their frustration about having never been kissed or lost their virginity and such. I don't care about those things. I have a lot of emotional depth to me, and so I worry. Friendships that I've had have never been really meaningful. When I emphasize that I am sincere, I'm not implying anything about anyone else, rather, I am trying to get the point accross that after all these years of being alone, I wouldn't take it for granted, and not that I am better, but just as good as anyone else, and so my frustration stems from a lack of understanding for where I need to go.

 

You have suggested things like lifting weights, gaining more.. things that I have attempted to no avail. So I can't improve on the physical. I'm not trying to suggest that that's all people care about, but they certainly won't give me the time of day, and I know appearance is a lasting impression. My hygiene and everything is always kept up, I have too much time on my hands anyways and won't leave the house unless I look a certain way. I can't really express myself either without stepping on people's toes, and most people don't really share my interests in music and literature, so I've subdued my personality over time, and don't really discuss anything with anyone.

 

What I'm trying to say here is that I'm certainly not trying to imply that I'm more deserving, but just that I have my integrity despite whether I am lacking in certain areas, and something real would be appreciated.

[Klokwurk]

What needs improvement is your attitude. You are stuck on feeling sorry for yourself.