Upcoming days and weeks

[KennyK]

Blue,

 

Sorry to hear about the tough day. It is a situation I can relate to. When I first met my girlfriend, there was a connection, we spent days together almost just like what you described. But there was also a hesitation. I was only a few years removed from college, I wasn't exactly established, how the heck would I be ready to jump in a relationship with a single mom of 4?

 

We had two different lives. But over time we adapted. Well, mostly I adapted when I figured out that being loved like that is priceless. And honestly, I wish I would have taken the chance sooner. Why leave anything unanswered? In the words of my late love... "Take a chance, you can make it work".

 

Just a thought.

 

Now, I did not intend to say any of your relationships were less meaningful than mine. I was just explaining my thought process. In fact, I'm not even saying you haven't had true love... But I do believe there is only one real shot at it, if you ever meet that person.

 

Surely if you we're granted a wish to make one of those relationships last, you'd be able to pick one over the others with little hesitation... If they were really all equal, it would be a choice that couldn't be made. But in my mind, I don't see it that way. This isn't my first time in love either, but this was just another whole level of it that I wouldn't have believed. Unconditional love really is priceless. And rare. Extremely rare.

 

Just as we can lose a true love over night from a freak accident, we can lose one to other reasons as well. Or maybe not even ever give them a chance... If you had told me I'd feel this way for a single mother of 4 who currently could not have more kids, I wouldn't have believed it. Her situation itself wasn't ideal for me, and it caused issues. Maybe issues that would have led to a divorce or whatever down the road. What I am saying though is despite all that, nobody would love or understand me the way she did. Sure I can go on and find a more functional, less stressful relationship, and I might even love, but it's not going to be to the same level. And I'm not sure I want that now that I've felt what I always wanted to feel.

 

Again, I understand your beliefs, I respect them, I just disagree on a few things But I do appreciate your correspondence.

[Tanzi]

In fact, I'm not even saying you haven't had true love... But I do believe there is only one real shot at it, if you ever meet that person..

 

The thing is if we only have one real shot at it, how do you know when that is? If a love is intense and real at the time and everything about creating a future together feels right, how do we know for sure that it is really everlasting? I wouldn't have got married had I not thought I was capable of loving my husband for ever. In fact I WAS capable of loving him for ever. That was what I still had planned when he left. I had to learn to let go and accept that I had to create a new path for myself. It was a painful effort but I did it in the end.

 

Surely if you we're granted a wish to make one of those relationships last, you'd be able to pick one over the others with little hesitation... If they were really all equal, it would be a choice that couldn't be made. .

 

Not if you put me back to the time that each relationship ended, no. I wouldn't be able to make that choice at all. It wouldn't be any different from you asking me which of my 3 children I loved the most. It doesn't even come to question. I loved them equally ... at the time I was in them and at the time they ended. However it would be an easy choice to make NOW because I am without a doubt still in love with my ex-boyfriend. I am no longer in love with my ex-husband. I literally had to learn to let go. If I were still in love with my ex-husband then I would never have been able to fall in love with my ex-boyfriend ... and, as for my first love, well I haven't seen him for 22 years!!! I couldn't even contemplate seeing him again. I prefer him to stay as the memory of my first love. But take me back to midst of each relationship and my feelings would be unmeasurably equal.

 

Sure I can go on and find a more functional, less stressful relationship, and I might even love, but it's not going to be to the same level.

 

Well, that is something you have yet to find out - one way or another.

 

Again, I understand your beliefs, I respect them, I just disagree on a few things But I do appreciate your correspondence.

 

Well, that's fine, it would be a boring old world if we all thought and felt the same!

 

Although it is for different reasons we are both pining for lost loves and we need to take time out from thinking about future loves. It isn't something I can think about although I still know it will happen again one day. Mind you, it doesn't really help when my bf says he still loves me. I received another email from my bf a short while ago. He admitted that he is the one struggling more than me which is why he keeps reaching out ... yet he is the one who is more determined to see this through. He ended it "I love you". It makes no sense at all. Love just doesn't make sense.

 

I'm trying to help but I guess I'm pretty messed up too.

[KennyK]

The thing is if we only have one real shot at it, how do you know when that is? If a love is intense and real at the time and everything about creating a future together feels right, how do we know for sure that it is really everlasting? I wouldn't have got married had I not thought I was capable of loving my husband for ever. In fact I WAS capable of loving him for ever. That was what I still had planned when he left. I had to learn to let go and accept that I had to create a new path for myself. It was a painful effort but I did it in the end.

 

It's difficult to notice. I guess it just hits you. Over time you realize no matter how much this person gets under your skin, you simply can't imagine your life without them being a major part of it.

 

For example, if for whatever reason we didn't "work out", I have no doubt that the feelings for each other never would have changed. We'd still love each other the same way. And in fact, that's sort of what happened for a while. There was no growing apart, plenty of frustration, but in the end we always ended up back in each others arms. This despite insecurities, infidelity, alcoholism, and other things too. There was always a willingness on both sides to work it out. You love who you love, and I never fell out of it.

 

 

Not if you put me back to the time that each relationship ended, no. I wouldn't be able to make that choice at all. It wouldn't be any different from you asking me which of my 3 children I loved the most. It doesn't even come to question. I loved them equally ... at the time I was in them and at the time they ended. However it would be an easy choice to make NOW because I am without a doubt still in love with my ex-boyfriend. I am no longer in love with my ex-husband. I literally had to learn to let go. If I were still in love with my ex-husband then I would never have been able to fall in love with my ex-boyfriend ... and, as for my first love, well I haven't seen him for 22 years!!! I couldn't even contemplate seeing him again. I prefer him to stay as the memory of my first love. But take me back to midst of each relationship and my feelings would be unmeasurably equal.

 

Look at it this way, which person could you have plugged into your life at any point, and felt the same about? No outside conditions involved. The loved each equally term can be pretty loose. Everyone is different, thinks different, acts different to different situations... My belief on the true love of your life is that this person understands what makes you who you are on a far deeper level. They never complain about anything related to who you are...

 

The kids example is good. I don't have any but I will share this. My girlfriend loved all her 4 kids equally, yet there were 2 that also had a different bond with her. They were the 2 that were more like her. She could relate and understand their actions better. That's not to say she didn't love them all, but she understood how they work. Equal love but different at the same time,

 

Still confusing, I know. Eventually I'll be able to get this all down in a way that makes sense to me anyway.

 

Sort of like how we grow and change through different chapters of our life until who we really are and what we really want hits us. A girlfriend from college may have been perfect for me at the time, but certainly wouldn't work for who I am today. That's not a knock against her, I'm just much more complicated now. There are different layers to what makes me who I am. My girlfriend made it through all of them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although it is for different reasons we are both pining for lost loves and we need to take time out from thinking about future loves. It isn't something I can think about although I still know it will happen again one day. Mind you, it doesn't really help when my bf says he still loves me. I received another email from my bf a short while ago. He admitted that he is the one struggling more than me which is why he keeps reaching out ... yet he is the one who is more determined to see this through. He ended it "I love you". It makes no sense at all. Love just doesn't make sense.

 

I'm trying to help but I guess I'm pretty messed up too.

 

The only advice I can give you is take what he wants out if the equation. Ask yourself what you want... Not what you think you need, but what you want. Always be true to your heart. If you can see yourself being with him, then give it a chance. If you know in your heart it won't work, then don't argue with your heart. Always simplify the question as much as you can.

[Tanzi]

Look at it this way, which person could you have plugged into your life at any point, and felt the same about? No outside conditions involved. The loved each equally term can be pretty loose. Everyone is different, thinks different, acts different to different situations... My belief on the true love of your life is that this person understands what makes you who you are on a far deeper level. They never complain about anything related to who you are...

 

Each one was plugged into my life completely, fully and totally at the point they were in it. My "first love", we were both 17 when we met. We were tuned into each other like no-one else at that time. He was my best friend as well as my boyfriend. We did EVERYTHING together. We went EVERYWHERE together. We were young, in love and carefree ... and enjoying every blissful moment of it. Now, at 45, he may be a totally different person because we both would have changed immensely since those days. I couldn't have asked for a more perfect boyfriend in those days but I have no idea who he is as a person now.

 

My ex-husband ...We met at work. He would always have a little smile for me that made my heart melt. I could sense something happening even before we started talking. From our first date we never left each other's side. I loved the little life we started creating together. When we finally moved in together we would leave little notes around the house for each other to find - all of which I still have. He came into my life, helped me grow up and provided me with 3 beautiful girls. He is a great father and I would never want to change that.

 

I met my current ex boyfriend online and one day he suggested meeting up. Because of the age difference I wasn't expecting that but it was only meant to be as friends ... but something happened. We met at 8pm for a few drinks ... and at 5am in the morning we were still out, still talking, clinging on to each and barely taking our eyes off each other. By our 4th date we couldn't deny that we had both fallen head over heals for each other. The whole first year was just utter bliss and we have created some beautiful memories. He became an important person in my life. I watched him grow to love my children and grow a close bond with my youngest daughter. Now 3 years later he is gone and I am trying to make sense of it. But this BU is fresh. My feelings are still raw.

 

All 3 came into my life for very specific reasons. All 3 were blissful at their time.

 

The kids example is good. I don't have any but I will share this. My girlfriend loved all her 4 kids equally, yet there were 2 that also had a different bond with her. They were the 2 that were more like her. She could relate and understand their actions better. That's not to say she didn't love them all, but she understood how they work. Equal love but different at the same time,

 

Well yes, that is how it is. All three relationships were equally as important and emotional to me but they were also different because of the different stages we were in at our lives and the different emotions surrounding the relationships... the first love ... the creating a life together bond ... and the relationship that never should have been but we were powerless to fight.

 

The only advice I can give you is take what he wants out if the equation. Ask yourself what you want... Not what you think you need, but what you want. Always be true to your heart. If you can see yourself being with him, then give it a chance. If you know in your heart it won't work, then don't argue with your heart. Always simplify the question as much as you can.

 

I can't take what he wants out of he equation because this is mostly about what he wants. I want him but I am willing to accept that it can't work. The age gap is just too much. I did simplify it, I guess, when I finally found the strength to bring the relationship to an end. It is also the reason why I won't reach out to him.

 

Anyway I guess we both hang on to our own theories because that is what is important to us. It is what helps us and I respect yours as you respect mine.

[KennyK]

I understand. I wish I was better at relationship type stuff. But the bottom line is every single person has been hurt in every relationship they've ever had. If they weren't hurt, they aren't single. Doesn't really have anything to do with what we've been talking about, but I read it today and I think it holds true.

 

Ok, so just to clarify, from when now on I say "the one", I am in no way comparing my relationships to yours, there wouldn't be any way to anyway unless we switched minds.

 

When I say I don't think I will, or want to find anyone else, it's due to the nature of my relationship with my girlfriend. I have felt love before, but due to difficultly explaining, I can only say this was different. It already had moved through different chapters of our lives, ups and downs, and I believe it was going to continue to do so.

 

Like i said, i had no intention of falling for a single mother of 4 who had lived so much more than i have. and she had no idea what to make of me. we both changed a lot, a whole lot over 2 years and became even more compatible. The 2013 version of her would not be interested in the 2011 version, things like that. We were just on the same frequency despite any sort of change. It truly was amazing and I'm happy I actually experienced it, but I want it back.

 

And I feel like if I have any say so at all, which is at least possible, I'd like it to continue in another chapter.

[Tanzi]

That is all understandable. I do understand how you feel. As I said above the thought of loving another man, being close to another man seems unimagineable right now and is the last thing I want.

 

No, I know you're not comparing. I guess I just wanted to reiterate how important these three relationships were at their point in time.

 

Another thought occurred to me earlier which I think compares to how you feel or at least goes some way to explaining how you feel.

 

I have read threads where the OP has turned down a date because they are frightened of jeopardising their chances of getting back with an ex. Even months later. It is a very similar fear to your own fear of jeopardising your chances of continuing elsewhere. I know that really means they aren't ready to date again anyway but, nevertheless, it still seems to be a fear that is foremost on their minds and I think it is a normal one. We need to hang on to anything and everything we can and I think your concern replicates that - only with a slightly different reasoning.

[KennyK]

Hmmm again I'm going to disagree

 

It's not thaaaat similar. With an ex, someone put in a vote to end the relationship, and it only takes 1. Nobody chose to end mine. The bond between us wasn't broken.

 

For me, I've never had an issue of pining over a girl who decided she didn't want to be with me. A lot of the time people try to convince themselves that they love another person, I learned long ago to not hear myself up when they stop acting.

[Tanzi]

Well, I didn't mean it quite like that. I just meant that when a relationship comes to an end we all have that little bit of hope that we will be back with them one day. Whether a person has more of a reason or right to hope than another is beside the point, we all still need it and we all still do it (to different extents maybe) and for that reason we are frightened of jeopardising that chance - for a while at least.

 

It was just a thought anyway ....

[KennyK]

Similar but different. With an ex, that person doesn't want to be with you or they wouldn't be an ex. You are misleading yourself to think they'll suddenly change.

 

In my case, she still wanted/wants to be with me, but the question is unanswerable. There's not the same closure you get from an ex. All I can do is hope love finds a way, since it was never broken as it would be with an ex. That's how my mind works anyway.

 

Anyway, I went over her house yesterday. The parents gave me her jacket and a box of stuff to go through. There is one drawing missing though. It was of me, her, her kids and a baby she was holding. At the bottom it said you are part of my family ken. I took a picture last Wednesday. It's not that I'd mind them keeping it, I'd just like it framed so it won't deteriorate.

 

They also had me watch a Father's Day video she made years ago. And we tried to log in on her computer, no luck yet. Then we started to put a timeline together.

 

The big question is what happened on Friday. I was off work that day, but I had a tough time getting a hold of her. Her kids had friends over all day and at some point in the early evening she left them. Her parents got home and nobody knew where she went. She came back and said she just went down the road. Either means to the gas station or over to her old bosses house. He's a jerk. He called the weekend before asking her to come over and drink, telling her he has fantasies about her. She said she never did anything with him, but who knows what happened that day. I think it's fairly likely she got alcohol from him.

 

The case for the kids is not going well. The law is sort of weird in that you can be a deadbeat dad who never helps, but it favors you anyway. Go figure.

[Tanzi]

We all cling to that little bit hope at some point though Kenny. It is just a feeling, a feeling we can't control. Whether it is right or wrong or whether we are misleading ourselves, we can't help it. Maybe we even need to for a while ... and, yes, is often misleading ... most people cling to a false hope ... but hope isn't rational ... it is what it is, simply hope, no matter how misguided it may be. And when all is said and done, I am entitled to hope that my ex-boyfriend might want me back just as much as you are that you may meet your ex in an afterlife (not that I think you are suggesting otherwise, it's just an example). And not that I am hanging on to that thought I would like to add ... but I did for a while.

 

Anyyyyways, I guess that is neither here nor there, I hope you find that photo. Did you ask them about it?

 

So does that mean she went out after you had left or was this before you got there?

 

Well, I can't say I understand how the law works but maybe, when there isn't enough evidence stacked up against him being a bad father, they rule in favour of the biological father until it is proven otherwise that he isn't capable of looking after them.

[KennyK]

Finally recovered some email today.

 

2 things of note. 1 was a correspondence from a guy that bought her $300 worth of lottery tickets and probably alcohol in exchange for hopefully nothing.

 

The other was some emails from a "friend" in Virginia. This friend had also been screwed over by the ex according to my girlfriend. I decided to email him, hopefully find out the nature of their relationship and if he knows anything. So far he just seems to think he was another in a long line of people to let her down, because he had a choice to make.

 

My guess is she brought up the idea of him moving her up there. She wouldn't have actually done this. I'm positive of that, but it does make me wonder if she had doubts about us, any thoughts?

[KennyK]

There is plenty of bad evidence, he lost his license to drive for not supporting her and the kids.

 

I did not see her the day I was referring to. Her phone wasn't charged and nobody was answering the home phone. It was frustrating. I didn't hear from her until 9pm? She said she had been there, but in her room. The parents told me she had left the kids alone hours earlier than that. But her actions would make sense if she was drunk.

[KennyK]

So the guy called today, much friendlier this time. It was a big deal over nothing.

 

Also had my counseling, she's still overmatched I think.

 

I noticed a missed call from My girlfriends mom when I got outside. She was already drunk of course, and her husband was downtown because the sister was driving my girlfriends minivan and it broke down ( I love karma).

 

I'm not sure why she called. She said thanks for the help with emails and went off on the ex. I took the chance to ask why they ruled it suicide and she said it was because she jumped.

 

This was somewhat surprising because the police report says they found her close to the house, but I guess it is 4-5 feet away from the side... Still, when you're losing your balance who knows what you do on the last step. I'm not sure how to feel about that.

 

She says they weren't going to fight it for a while if the ex got custody, because he can't get paid from a suicide. But why would he have life insurance on his ex wife anyway? Or maybe it's social security. It's all confusing to me.

 

I still can't see her planning to kill herself. She was very accident prone, even fell out of trees she climbed the wrong way.

 

Ken

[Tanzi]

I'm not sure how anyone will ever know if it was suicide or an accident. As you said before ... would she have left the children? Would she not have left a note? But then again would she have been thinking logically. These are questions know one will ever know for sure.

 

Did her mum have a drinking problem too?

 

So do you feel satisfied after having spoken to her friend?

[KennyK]

Both her parents are in denial about their drinking problems.

 

Apparently notes aren't as common as you think, but this was a girl who wrote all the time. And she did tell me I'd be proud that she started writing again that day. I wish someone could "find" it.

 

I think it's entirely possible to "jump" or push off if you're losing your balance and you know you're going to fall. Maybe in that split second you'd hope to hit the grass or something. I just can't picture it.

 

Note or no note, I'm pretty sure she would have said I love you or at least goodbye to me that night.

 

Not to mention, jumping from a 2 story house isn't necessarily fatal. And why would you land on your back?

 

The family is telling me they aren't fighting it now in case the ex gets custody of the kids, but why would he get money from her death anyway?

[Tanzi]

I guess people leaving notes is one of those misconceptions we have. You are probably right but, as you say, there surely would have been something you could look back on now and see as a sign.

 

You know, if both her parents have drinking problems then maybe it is better they don't get custody of the children.

 

Do you mean the family aren't fighting the decision?

 

They (as in your girlfriend and her ex) may have taken out life policies on each other when they were together that perhaps haven't been cancelled or that the parents throught may not have been cancelled ...

[KennyK]

For all their money problems, I doubt it. After a divorce is think it expires anyway.

 

The parents drink, the ex had a history of the same, and drugs, and no job.

 

It's a mess.

[KennyK]

Day 40? I think. I am not so sure I will be able to overcome this. That spiritual battle on the horizon that I mentioned has become a tidal wave heading towards me. I look for clues and answers about what happened, nobody else really seems to care, their priority is on the kids. Even after death nobody still cares to even try to find out what she wanted. They all claim actions in her name. It's frustrating.

 

I'm sorry Kendelle, I'm trying my best. I'm not strong enough to handle all this. I wish to live my life in hopes of bring with you again, not just "being with", but I mean you and me like we were here. The possibilities honestly frighten me. I hope you can guide me or send something my way to stop me from sinking.

 

Ken

[Tanzi]

You are strong enough to get through this. I know it doesnt feel like it at the moment but you will .... but it will take time.

 

I suppose the children give the parents and everyone else close to her something to focus on .... a reason to keep going. They were her parents, sister, father to her children. Surely they must care. This must be traumatic for the children so to that extent their welfare will be of the paramount importance. That would have been what your girlfriend wanted.

 

Hang on in there.

[KennyK]

I thought I could at first. But they way I feel for her just can't coexist with a society view of a happy fulfilled life. I can't give up on her.

 

I loved her at her very worst, when she was drunk and passed out and running around with different guys when I first met her. I felt something so special underneath all that, and with my support she started to blossom again. I told her I'd go through hell to be with her if that's what it took.

[KennyK]

Visited her parents again. The ex chose not to even let the kids come down for the day because "they're scared". I went up to the attic and the window she went out of.

 

It's pretty difficult to even get out there, the window only opens maybe 2 feet (less than half a meter for my Brit readers), and you have to squeeze through some support beams. Not to mention there's only about a 11/2 foot ledge to even step out on. I'm not even sure how you could get back in.

 

Also saw where she landed. It here's an indention where her knee hit in the grass, pretty far past the concrete walkway. She hit there facing away from the house but ended up on her back facing the house. So she rolled over once she hit or while bouncing.

 

So I'm not sure what to make of it. She clearly jumped, but of you were going to kill yourself you'd go head first or backwards and try to hit the concrete. But at the same time, if you weren't trying to kill yourself, you'd try to brace with your arms. Not sure if she did or not.

 

I still think she she lost her balance, slipped and jumped at the last second hoping to avoid the harder parts and land in the grass like she did.

[Tanzi]

What are the kids scared of? Being in the house they once shared with their mum? Understandable I guess but this is their grandparents house too and if the children are to have any kind of relationship with their grandparents then her ex should help them overcome this. Or maybe it was just an excuse.

 

She clearly jumped, but of you were going to kill yourself you'd go head first or backwards and try to hit the concrete. But at the same time, if you weren't trying to kill yourself, you'd try to brace with your arms. Not sure if she did or not.

 

I still think she she lost her balance, slipped and jumped at the last second hoping to avoid the harder parts and land in the grass like she did.

 

I don't know. I mean I have no idea what goes through someones head when they are about to do something like that. I guess she would be hesitant, not necessarily about wanting to do it (though she may well have been that too) but also in carrying out the act itself. That said, your conclusion sounds feasible too. But, if it was a case of losing her balance, would she have gone out the attic in the the first place?

[KennyK]

The claim is the kids are scared of the grandparents. I guess because they were arguing with my girlfriend that night? It's likely the ex telling them what to say. He's trying to claim they had a hand in her death,

 

She went up in the attic to "get away". That's just what she did. Never to the attic before, but it was open and the opportunity was there. She had balanced on the railings of bridges before, and climbed hotel roofs. I think she just wanted to go out there. Maybe to call the bird that flew away? Maybe because she had been on a different part of the roof before. Either way, she had access to alcohol and sleeping pills, and she really really cleared the cement walkway. She also asked me earlier that night "how do I know what's real?" So her mind may have been playing tricks. It's hard to say. I just can't see someone killing herself like that.

 

My earlier thoughts that she may have been shut in Attic dont seem feasible. To close the attic, you have to climb up the ladder, pull some springs up and then climb back down. She would have heard all that going on. Not to mention its all wood, it'd be easy to hear her moving.

[Tanzi]

Well if climbing roofs was something she did and she had access to alcohol and sleeping pills then it sounds as though this was an accident.

 

I still don't get why the kids would be scared of the grandparents, they lived with them. It likely is the ex making it up ... unless the children did get scared of the grandparents on a regular basiss.

[KennyK]

They weren't scared of the grandparents. I heard from someone else that used the word "upset" in describing how they felt about the grandparents. That one is more plausible.

 

The thing is, the kids were in their rooms playing that night. The argument between my girlfriend and her father happened earlier in the evening.