How do I heal when we have kids?

[Nattersmatter]

And Jonathan.

 

Jonathan's HIS friend. He's only your acquaintance through your marriage to C, isn't he?

 

I still don't believe it is her. Maybe he fancies her I could see that but I don't think he is her type at all.

 

How would you know what her type was when most people don't even know what their own type is? How's about 'married' so that she can feed her flailing ego with a Supersize meal instead of a regular (i.e. not just getting a man who's available but one whom has to be lured away from a relationship), is that her type? I'm just exploring the possibilities here, you realise. It may NOT be her... but - on top of everything else that fits - it's still an AMAZING coincidence that C walks out on you and only 2 weeks later Janine boots out her own partner, don't you think?

 

Anyway she was home with her partner on New Year's Eve.

 

 

Said who? Her? Got any proof?

 

Well time will tell I guess. Not really sure what I can do to find out for sure??

 

Set a trap. Via disinformation. See if it gets back to C.

 

Also when he left she spent practically every night with me at my house - surely with him freed up she would have been with him ?

 

Course not. He went to his mother's. I doubt ANY cheating couple would be *that* brazen, do you? Drama-Queen that she is, I doubt the MIL would want to play accomplice to that sort of thing or else if you found out you'd undoubtedly (her perception) make it extremely difficult, maybe impossible, for her to see the grandkids through you, rather than just through C (and once he'd have his own place - ...you know how lax some males can be when it comes to keeping up with things like visits with the rellies). So what with Janine knowing she was ditching her partner and wanting to avoid him, there wouldn't have been any place BUT yours to go to. Plus, of course, you were where the crucial up-to-the-minute information was, weren't you.

 

Oh also - if it is her I am bloody well screwed cos she pretty much knows every single thing I have been thinking which would mean .... So does he .... That does not bear thinking about!!

 

how the eff do I find out??

 

As above. Let's have a thinkipoos about what you could, oops!, let slip to Janine that (if she is the OW or merely thinks she is) she really wouldn't like hearing and would possibly have a go at C about whereby he secretly holds you to blame for the aggro and we see that badly suppressed anger leaking out next time you see him but where there's nothing whatsoever else to explain it. You know what I'm hinting at, don't you?

 

It would be good if you could petition him for divorce based on infidelity, though. Like I say - judges... Only human.

 

And C wouldn't have stayed home anyway - he loves Christmas - we go out every year with Jonathan for it. Janine came last year too. I decided not to go last minute - they did not know that would happen. Janine begged me to go - she rang and text me the whole night - she went cos there was a guy she had met a few weeks before and she was desperate to see if he was gonna be there again. I could not be assed with all that which is part of the reason I did not go - it didn't sit well with me when she had a decent man at home already although she said he had agreed they were over. He still lived with her and I know he wanted to try to make it work with her and also she did not tell him that she was looking for bloody one night stands and the like. If they were so over why hide it from him?

 

There you go, then. Last year she wanted you along because you weren't the impeding wife. And even a whole year and 2 months ago Janine proved to you that she's a low-moralled cheat as well as a manipulative snake-in-the-grass just like C! Need we say more? In fact, for all you know, he got the idea about how to string you along from HER.

 

Janine fits the type.

Janine has motivation.

Janine has the opportunity.

Janine's relationship ending matches your own (as if she's waited all that time just for C to do the deed first).

...and the rest.

 

Anyway I digress, I understand where you are coming from with this whole C and Janine thing but I still don't think it is the case. Janine actually was trying to get C and her partner to make good friends.

 

Course. If her partner starts hanging with him, she has another avenue of access to him.

 

In fact C really liked Daniel. They got on great. He always said he preferred Daniel to Janine . Now I know you can say that was all part of the cover up and maybe it is but you can say that about everything can't you? I don't want to turn into a completely cynical untrusting person - that's not me.

 

I'm not suggesting you do. You shouldn't without evidence, anyway. But neither should you be quite so overly trusting when C's pattern of behaviour heavily indicates he's cheating with somebody (or somebodies). You need to know PRECISELY where you stand and in the meantime, just bear things in mind in order that you don't get a ruddy great shock in the coming weeks or months. And the trouble is, it's not looking good, is it. That's a HELL of a lot of matching data and indicators that I've been setting out, wouldn't you say?

 

Well I guess there is no point worrying about it because there is not a lot I can do about it even if it is her. Just be a bit careful what I say to her about C from now on I guess ?

 

You can do that or you can set a deliberate trap. If you do nothing, then *do* nothing, which means, cease telling her anything about you and C so that it always has to be Janine who enquires. See how she copes when you say something like, 'Aww... aren't you bored with hearing about my troubles, don't you want us to talk about something else?'... see whether she starts trying to pump you for information. If she has a need to know, you'll SEE that need revealing itself. If she seems reluctant to let the topic drop and keeps raising it at every available opportunity, then it's time to think about lighting the disinformation fuse and standing well back to see if there's a BANG!

 

xoxo

[Supersarahp]

No - Jonathan is most definitely a mutual friend and has been for 12 years. He is Lauren's godfather too. He is as much my friend as C's. he used to spend every Saturday with me and the kids while Chris was working. We went shopping and for lunch. I used to go swimming with him twice a week (he has to exercise for his leg because he has cerebral palsy). He is like a brother to me. He is invited to all my family gatherings etc etc. my family have taken him into their hearts almost as much as they did with C. My brothers even buy him Christmas presents. He is definitely my friend as well. Like is say I would trust Jonathan with my life.

 

I think I said the bit about the Christmas night out a bit wrong. All the stuff I said about her begging me to go etc was about this year not the year before. The year before she went off home with some random guy.

 

I actually just saw Janine now. She popped in after work to drop my carpet cleaner back to me. I did a small test. Conversation as follows:

 

Me: I was so preoccupied at the time I never even asked you what you did for New Year's Eve?

 

J: huh? Oh I did nothing.

 

Me: didn't you celebrate it with Daniel?

 

J: no, I did nothing. I can't remember sorry.

 

Me : oh ok

 

J: did you celebrate it?

 

Me : no not really had too much going on.

 

J: God we are both tired I better get going.

 

 

Hmmmmm that did not impress me - it has made me suspicious . I don't know whether it is cos the idea is now in my head or not.

 

I didn't bring C up but she did. She said she had been speaking to Toni (girl we both worked with) about me. I told Toni about C leavi g but haven't had a chance to have a proper catch up. I asked Janine what they were saying . She said they both agreed that C had handled things badly and that the way he has been towards me has been really unfair. She said that at least with her and Daniel they sat down and talked about it and that Daniel helped her sort the house out and the bills before leaving and that they are ok around each other and stuff.

 

One other thing I remembered which looks bad is this. That night they went out , Janine came back and stayed at our house. Lauren was on a sleepover at my parents' house and Janine slept in her room. C slept on the sofa that night. I asked him why he slept on the sofa and he said it was cos I was stretched accross the bed. Janine had not been scheduled to stay at ours. C was moaning about it after wards Saying he had to pay for the taxi cos she had no money to get home. See I am a really light sleeper and I heard them come in. I did not hear anything going on at all but who bloody knows?

 

 

Janine is really hung up on this rugby player person at the moment. It's the person she was trying to find on that night out. He is all she talks about even though nothing even happened and she has no way of contacting him . She says she is going to his training ground tomorrow to try to see him and seize her chance to talk to him again . Could all be a big ruse I guess - this guy does exist though cos she showed me his Facebook profile but I guess that doesn't mean she has anything to do with him . I will see what she says about tomorrow .

 

Hmmm I will definitely try to be a bit smarter about things with her. When you said that I know what you are getting at I am not sure I do? Did you mean I should tell her I am going to file for divorce ?

[Supersarahp]

Argh I am gonna bloody scream! Lol not really but grr. I will be glad when I don't have to have dealings with him any more apart from about the kids.

 

Basically when he left we left the arrangements for the bill in place for January as he still was deciding what he bloody wanted to do. Then he said he wasn't coming back and we needed to change the bills from feb .

 

We have a Barclays account for bills. We set it up when we got married and it was meant to be a joint account but they did it wrong and it ended up just in C's name. We never bothered correcting it cos it really did not make a difference as such .

 

Well he left on jan 4th and rang up all the bills Etc to tell them and they then charged me from 4th jan. I asked him about it and he said he did not realise they would do that and that they asked him the date he actually left . He said the council tax had been paid up until April and that I did not have to worry about that.

 

Well the other day I get a bill for £279 for council tax from 4th jan - 31st march which I have to pay by 1st march. I just couldn't be bothered to have to argue with him about it so I thought just ring them and pay it. Well they said they have refunded the money into the Barclays account. So now I am thinking why should I pay it? I suppose technically I am liable. Well I sent him a text message saying this:

 

I received a council tax bill for jan - march for £279 which we already paid when we were together . The council has informed me that they refunded our payment into Barclays so can you arrange to give me that money please so I can pay it again?

 

 

I bet he won't give me the money. We shall see. So much for wanting to make sure we are ok and standing by his word etc.

 

I know I know - solicitor time!

[Supersarahp]

Ffs feel down again. At least I not down all the time but the mood swings are peeing me off. I have been taking the vitamins and stuff. Was in the supermarket and the boys were messing about in the trolley wrestling and stuff and giggling. Not really doing any harm - just being boisterous but I felt like leaving the trolley there and walking out. Ups and downs I guess swings and roundabouts, rough with the smooth.

 

I am just impatient - I want my life to be the way I envision NOW. I want to find the right person now but I know it is not the right time. I spent so long in a bad relationship I just kind of want a good one now. Well I guess this whole experience will teach me patience - hopefully anyway!

[nookbridge]

Ffs feel down again. At least I not down all the time but the mood swings are peeing me off. I have been taking the vitamins and stuff. Was in the supermarket and the boys were messing about in the trolley wrestling and stuff and giggling. Not really doing any harm - just being boisterous but I felt like leaving the trolley there and walking out. Ups and downs I guess swings and roundabouts, rough with the smooth.

 

I am just impatient - I want my life to be the way I envision NOW. I want to find the right person now but I know it is not the right time. I spent so long in a bad relationship I just kind of want a good one now. Well I guess this whole experience will teach me patience - hopefully anyway!

 

Hang in there Sarah! These first few waves are going to be strong, but it gets SO, SO, SO much better in a few weeks. Focus on being the best mom in the world and your job, right? And trust me, without patience, nothing good will happen. Some things just happen when they happen - the key is to seize the moment, because everyone will have opportunities presented to them! What did you used to do when you were back in the academy? Were you sporty, into music, dancing, a jokster? Do you like to travel? Volunteer? Are you outdoorsy? Do you want to learn a new language or something? That's where you'll meet people with similar interests as you (OR you could be lucky like me and have them run into you at the club, but those odds are much lower, and you have to deal with a lot of trash at the same time!)

 

And I'm just going to throw it out here. I suggest masturbating, and I don't mean this to be rude or anything. It stimulated a lot of good things in you.

[Supersarahp]

Hahah thanks Nook - that cheered me up! I don't really have like hobbies and stuff. I like swimming, creative writing - not really social things as such. I don't know - A new man is not the right thing for me anyway - just having a pants moment - or a few! Thanks for caring.

[Nattersmatter]

No - Jonathan is most definitely a mutual friend and has been for 12 years. He is Lauren's godfather too. He is as much my friend as C's. he used to spend every Saturday with me and the kids while Chris was working. We went shopping and for lunch. I used to go swimming with him twice a week (he has to exercise for his leg because he has cerebral palsy). He is like a brother to me. He is invited to all my family gatherings etc etc. my family have taken him into their hearts almost as much as they did with C. My brothers even buy him Christmas presents. He is definitely my friend as well. Like is say I would trust Jonathan with my life.

 

Open your mind. Appraise things OBJECTIVELY, not through a mist of emotions. And just accept that things could be POSSIBLE. That way you can't get nasty shocks. Let's be honest - before now, you thought you could trust your own very husband with your life, did you not? People can surprise you.

 

Other people can surprise you, too. You've just recently found out that your emotional world isn't as safe as you'd thought. You can't extricate yourself from this welfare-threatening situation as quickly as you'd like, so it's just prudent to investigate the extent of the danger's ripples, it's outermost limits. Let's say Jonathan ISN'T as brotherly as you thought, and that Janine isn't the good friend like you thought. At an especially emotionally vulnerable time such as this, your need of them will increase, and this means the shock factor would likewise be greater if - IF - you found out that the very people whom you'd been looking to to pull you, figuratively-speaking, out of this deep, dark pit turned out to in actual fact be wholly complicit in having pushed you in it in the first place. It could prove the final straw.

 

Due to this situation wherein you're having to call into re-question everything you used to think you could take for granted, any good friend really worth their salt should (if they found out) understand that you'd mentally given them a quick frisking, too. If they DID know you were having doubts, they should be perfectly willing to let you frisk them.. for YOUR benefit of peace of mind. But they don't HAVE to find out; that's the whole point of this exercise: there comes a point when circumstantial evidence collects into such a quantity that it can no longer be deemed circumstantial. If we never GET to that quantity, you won't have to take it any further. It's just an investigation; the innocent can stand up to investigation, it's the guilty who cannot...

 

So.. Jonathan...

 

1. He's a MUTUAL friend. It's rarely possible for that to continue where a divorce is less than amicable. And if he knows there is just cause for a divorce to at some inevitable point become anything but amicable, well... he who has time to prepare will do just that - pick a side so as to ensure he'll be keeping ONE of you afterwards. And we could reasonably suggest that that side wouldn't logically be you because you and he "USED to", whereas he and C *still do*.

 

2. Like attracts Like. Where C's Likeness is concerned, that can include a secret harbouring of a grudge and, beneath that, it's creation - the tendency to see other people's actions always as a reflection on you-you-you and how they do or don't feel about you. Maybe because you ceased going swimming and lunching with Jonathan, he secretly saw that as rejection and took umbrage? And - Like/Like - perhaps Jonathan always had a secret agenda towards you (fancied you), anyway (especially when quite a lot of men tend not to view women as friend material but exploit the concept as their means to get close to you) which would have made that seeming rejection worse. Even MORE reason for him to plump for C.

 

3. Even plumping for C, he will still be Lauren's godfather and he will still see her - through C... which, more recent dropping of contact might suggest to him, would certainly be a whole lot more often than if he were to choose your side.

 

4. A burning question: Let me ask you, Just how many times since this trouble all started has Jonathan rung or called round purely and specifically to be *your* shoulder to cry on? (Maybe he's not being C's shoulder EITHER - which would lend plausibility to C having whined in a no-one loves me fashion on NYE for real. But the purpose of this exercise is to examine whether Jonathan could be guilty. If it still seems unlikely, then you can again assume he's innocent.)

 

Back to Janine...

 

1.

 

I think I said the bit about the Christmas night out a bit wrong. All the stuff I said about her begging me to go etc was about this year not the year before. The year before she went off home with some random guy.

 

What I look for is a break in patterns and their consistency. If she did last year but didn't this year or did last year but didn't this year, there is the breakage. Is there good reason for the breakage - some definite change in circumstances to warrant it - and can it be accounted for ONLY through behaviour belonging to innocence? In this case - NO - because we could say that the reason she begged this year was to lend plausibility to her case for self-innocence and keeping you off her scent. Surely if she was that night experiencing a need for you it can only be because she felt uncomfortable being alone with C and his friends? So why not just come back to your house, using the excuse that she felt bad you were at home on your own whilst the three of them were out having a ball? See - doesn't add up; there's no follow through. There never is when an impression profference is fake.

 

2.

I actually just saw Janine now. She popped in after work to drop my carpet cleaner back to me. I did a small test. Conversation as follows:

 

Me: I was so preoccupied at the time I never even asked you what you did for New Year's Eve?

 

J: huh? Oh I did nothing.

 

Me: didn't you celebrate it with Daniel?

 

J: no, I did nothing. I can't remember sorry.

 

Me : oh ok

 

J: did you celebrate it?

 

Me : no not really had too much going on.

 

J: God we are both tired I better get going.

 

Hmmmmm that did not impress me - it has made me suspicious . I don't know whether it is cos the idea is now in my head or not.

 

You could have the idea in your head yet still see her say or do something to dispell all suspicion. To me, that says Guilty. She says, basically, I remember that I didn't do anything, but then in the very same breath (after a beat in which to think about how much worse it'll be if you already know and she lies) changes that to I don't remember if I did or not. She seemingly doesn't know WHAT she's saying, does she. ...Panic under unexpected pressure, anyone? (A magistrate would make mincemeat out of her over that one.)

 

(Talking of mages - well done for thinking of that question - very cunning!)

 

3.

I didn't bring C up but she did.

 

Yep. As I predicted. She could, however, just be in the habit of asking after your business ...or it could be her business. This raising the topic, is too grey. Number 2 above, isn't, though. Who the heck doesn't remember what they were doing on an highly memorable night that occurred only just over 1 month ago? People have no problem remembering the truth. Only lies and truth they wish to hide.

 

4.

She said she had been speaking to Toni (girl we both worked with) about me. I told Toni about C leavi g but haven't had a chance to have a proper catch up. I asked Janine what they were saying . She said they both agreed that C had handled things badly and that the way he has been towards me has been really unfair. She said that at least with her and Daniel they sat down and talked about it and that Daniel helped her sort the house out and the bills before leaving and that they are ok around each other and stuff.

 

She's trying to disassociate herself from a liar's behaviour / disassociation from the liar himself in order to disassociate from LYING full-stop. Liars do that. (If asked to give a false opinion, like, explain why (scuse pertinent e.g.) smoking is okay when they're a non-smoker who hold the opposite view, instead of saying something like, 'I believe smoking is wrong' they will say, 'People believe smoking is wrong'.) I believe poor old *Daniel* was the one who sat her down, not "we". And that the reason he did so was because he had been given cause to believe there was still hope despite her current "crisis"-based bad decision. Anyway, you only have HER word they did that, don't you.

 

Me, I'm surprised she can even remember.

 

I myself am pretty certain it's Janine (either as the OW or at the very least thought she was/still thinks she could be thus behaved accordingly, despite her allegedly being unable to remember something wholly memorable as well as recent; this, to me, is damning evidence all its own). But it needs to be you who's certain, not me.

 

5.

One other thing I remembered which looks bad is this. That night they went out , Janine came back and stayed at our house. Lauren was on a sleepover at my parents' house and Janine slept in her room. C slept on the sofa that night.

 

OH, DID HE, INDEED! You'd think it would have been the opposite - that he'd have wanted to keep up appearances, what with an 'outsider' in the house!

 

I asked him why he slept on the sofa and he said it was cos I was stretched accross the bed.

 

B*LLOCKS! It's called, (tap-tap) Sorry, baby, but you need to move over cos you're squeezing me out of the bed? / Oh, sorry (moves over). What a crock!

 

Janine had not been scheduled to stay at ours. C was moaning about it after wards Saying he had to pay for the taxi cos she had no money to get home.

 

Oh, really? Wasn't that YOUR job seeing as how Janine's your friend, not his, and he despises her?!

 

See I am a really light sleeper and I heard them come in. I did not hear anything going on at all but who bloody knows?

 

Yeah. Who knows. You are not a light sleeper all night, no-one is, it's impossible.

 

If they did, though... in your house..... UGH... what a pair of rhymes-with-punts that would make them!

 

Janine is really hung up on this rugby player person at the moment. It's the person she was trying to find on that night out. He is all she talks about even though nothing even happened and she has no way of contacting him . She says she is going to his training ground tomorrow to try to see him and seize her chance to talk to him again . Could all be a big ruse I guess - this guy does exist though cos she showed me his Facebook profile but I guess that doesn't mean she has anything to do with him . I will see what she says about tomorrow .

 

It could be both true AND a ruse. Just because she's possibly having or has had a fling with your husband, doesn't mean she wouldn't want a safetynet Just In Case nothing came of it. Also, she might need someone to make C jealous with, to spur him into action, finally (because she believes he wants her and would be with her "if not for this/that" (and especially you).

 

Question: is Janine also a friend of Jonathan's or his wife?

 

Hmmm I will definitely try to be a bit smarter about things with her.

 

Good. Yes, Protect yourself.

 

When you said that I know what you are getting at I am not sure I do? Did you mean I should tell her I am going to file for divorce ?

 

Nope. (But you could.) I was going to suggest you go against what she'll have been told, which is, you and C haven't had a sh*g for months. If she's innocent, it's a lie that cannot harm her in any way possible. It's certainly wholly plausible. But it's definitely something that would - if he's been giving her BS about having designs on her beyond a cheap sh*g or four, and is sleeping only with her, certainly never again with you, yadder-yadder - it will make things kick off. C won't be able to say a thing to you about it because otherwise you could say, 'What is Janine doing telling you, anyway?'. Plus you can deny it. He'll then presume Janine is calling his bluff over it and that will create a fissure between them (a REAL fissure, I mean, not this fabricated one... I despise you is as I despise you *does* which is NOT pays for the despised one to get safely home in a taxi with his own bloody money!!!).

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Oh, Sarah, be under no illusions! This whole process will teach you to be a virtuoso of patience! xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

PS:

 

 

5. One other thing I remembered which looks bad is this. That night they went out , Janine came back and stayed at our house. Lauren was on a sleepover at my parents' house and Janine slept in her room. C slept on the sofa that night. / OH, DID HE, INDEED! You'd think it would have been the opposite - that he'd have wanted to keep up appearances, what with an 'outsider' in the house!

 

That's why on return he told you he was upset with you for having been snappy with him. He wanted a plausible excuse for choosing to (cough!) "sleep" on the sofa.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Sorry - nearly missed this one...

 

Oh, and Pre-S: when you said "Also - I had such a great day today. Took the kids to the zoo - 2 buses there and 2 back. It was brilliant - they were so well behaved and I did not feel stressed at all. We just had a fantastic day. I didn't even think about Him barely. Only once when....

 

I was expecting to see: "...when we visited the Chimpanzee cage". !!!

 

The reason I say about not being stressed is cos he said I was always stressed and I agreed and I thought I was always stressed because of the kids but days like this just reiterate to me that I wasn't ."

 

Told ya.

 

 

Re your latest:

 

Argh I am gonna bloody scream! Lol not really but grr. I will be glad when I don't have to have dealings with him any more apart from about the kids.

 

Basically when he left we left the arrangements for the bill in place for January as he still was deciding what he bloody wanted to do. Then he said he wasn't coming back and we needed to change the bills from feb .

 

Unless he's paying you Interim Maintenance, he cannot switch bills from his name or his and yours jointly to just yours. Have you seen a solicitor yet, Sarah? PLEASE SEE ONE!!!!

 

We have a Barclays account for bills. We set it up when we got married and it was meant to be a joint account but they did it wrong and it ended up just in C's name. We never bothered correcting it cos it really did not make a difference as such .

 

Well he left on jan 4th and rang up all the bills Etc to tell them and they then charged me from 4th jan. I asked him about it and he said he did not realise they would do that and that they asked him the date he actually left . He said the council tax had been paid up until April and that I did not have to worry about that.

 

AGAIN, HE IS NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE ANY BILLS YOUR SOLE FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE YOU TWO ARE OFFICIALLY DIVORCED. HE STILL HAS A LEGAL DUTY TO SUPPORT YOU.

 

SOLICITOR, SARAH - *NOW*!!!!! AND THAT IS AN ORDER!

 

Well the other day I get a bill for £279 for council tax from 4th jan - 31st march which I have to pay by 1st march. I just couldn't be bothered to have to argue with him about it so I thought just ring them and pay it. Well they said they have refunded the money into the Barclays account. So now I am thinking why should I pay it? I suppose technically I am liable.

 

NOPE! He is your provider until the Decree Absolut, meaning until then all marital habits to date STAND and cannot be altered without the court's approval.

 

What is he paying you towards household and childcare and You-care bills? Anything?

 

Well I sent him a text message saying this:

 

I received a council tax bill for jan - march for £279 which we already paid when we were together . The council has informed me that they refunded our payment into Barclays so can you arrange to give me that money please so I can pay it again?

 

I bet he won't give me the money.

 

He is a nasty, nasty piece of low-life [kids cover their eyes please] SSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH*****************T!

 

We shall see. So much for wanting to make sure we are ok and standing by his word etc.

 

I know I know - solicitor time!

 

Sorry - hadn't read ahead. But yes - s-o-l-i-c-i-t-o-rrrrrrrrrrrr-AH!

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

By the way - what does Vitamins AND STUFF mean?

 

Are you - yes or no - now taking the EPAs?

 

xoxo

[Supersarahp]

Well surprise sur-bloody-prise - he has not responded to my text about the council tax.

 

he says he is going to pay me £340 a month because in his exact words:

"I got advice and that's what I have to give you . errrrrrrr i WANT to. i want you to be ok but i have to live as well you know?"

 

Cretin!-

 

OK OK I am convinced - I need a solicitor! You are like the angel on my shoulder! (I am grateful for the angel though so thank you)

 

you know what? he told lauren that he is giving me money to spend on them so now she is convinced I have all this extra money to buy toys with. yeah try to make yourself feel better *******!

 

sorry for lack of capitals and punctuation i am on this new tablet thing that vodafone sent to me and i cba to correct it.

 

Hmm Jonathan? ok so i suppose if push comes to shove he would be more for C.

 

i was the one who told him about C leaving. i called him and said "look C has left he says we are over - he is in a really bad way and could use a friend right now so please be there for him. i have great support network but hr has no one so please support him."

 

 

Jonathan was shocked. he said on the night out C had told him that he felt like nothing he ever did was right with me. jonathan suggested that we should seek counselling and i said i wanted to but C would not. Jonathan said he would try to be there for both of us and that he valued our friendship equally.

 

well after C and I had the argument and he went to his mums he wanted to come round to 'talk' but he wanted jonathan there cos he found it too hard to talk to me alone.

 

i agreed cos i trust jonathan and it was like "whatever it takes to get you to tell me what is going on""

so they came around and it was awkward as hell. i made them both a cup of tea and C was saying he was leaving the bills as they were (this was back when he had just moved out) i was biding my time until the kids bedtime so we could talk properly and i said "bedtime soon kids

[Supersarahp]

Sorry I have moved to my phone - that tablet was a pain in the ass.

 

This is much faster

 

Yeah so I said "bedtime soon kids " and C said " oh we are going I. A minute " and I was like

 

"What? You just got here"

 

I was incredulous because he had dropped the bomb that he wanted to end it - then we lived on eggshells for a week then he moved out and we had no contact for a week and I had kind of built up that that day was the day we would sort things out. And he wanted to stay for 5 mins.

 

So I said "well we need to talk really" and C got extremely agitated and said "see I can't be around you - I have to go I can't bear to be around you"

 

Jonathan said "C talk to Sarah tell her what you Are feeling"

 

And C said "I have to go Jonathan we have to get out of here"

 

I said "just talk to me - Jonathan is here - what are you afraid of?"

 

C said "you don't want me to start talking you REALLY don't"

 

I said " I do - I don't care what you say - it can't be any worse than what you have already put me through these past two weeks"

 

Jonathan again told him to tell me how he feels

 

C said "right well first of all I didn't leave you THREW out"

 

I was like " no I didn't I begged you to stay"

 

C said " see Jonathan it is always all about her feelings "

 

I said " no it isn't - right now it is ALL about your feelings - you are calling all the shots"

 

Jonathan told me that I should give C some time and space.

 

I said that is what I have done for the past two weeks but unfortunately you can't put 3 kids lives on hold .

 

So C said he wanted to leave. He went upstairs and cuddled Liam and said to him "I am so sorry" and he was crying ©

 

I said to Jonathan "it doesn't have to be like this" and I was also crying.

 

So C and Jonathan went outside and I said "are you still thinking of moving back in?"

 

And C sai he did not know.

 

I said I did not understand why he felt so angry with me and C said "YOU KNOW WHY"

 

And I said "because I am stressed?"

 

He said yes and other things. I sai what other things and C said he found it hard to tell me .

 

Jonathan said "why don't we meet on Sunday and talk more then?" C agreed and so did I .

 

I asked C to write it all down if he couldn't say it and he need not even be there while I read it if he was scared of my reaction. He said he would talk on Sunday but would not promise to write it down.

 

So they left.

 

Well I did not know what time they were coming on the Sunday so I text C and asked but he did not respond . So I text Jonathan and asked and he said C told him he did not want him there on Sunday and was gonna bring Chris Singh instead.

 

Now Chris Singh goes through break ups all the time - he has had more relationships than hot dinners and is very flippant and matter of fact. I told Jonathan I was not happy that Chris Singh was coming instead of him .

 

Well I spoke to C that night and said "are you bringing Chris Singh on Sunday" C said " no I am coming alone - I guess you have been speaking to Jonathan" I said he mentioned it . Then C got really nasty and said that I was trying to turn Jonathan against him. I said I was not.

 

Well after he call I spoke to Jonathan and he was bewildered. He said after the meeting C had said to him "see what she is like? All she cares about is herself." And Jonathan said he did not get that impression at all and C then said " I don't want you to come on Sunday I might ask Chris Singh instead"

 

Well that was that really. Not heard a great deal from Jonathan since but he did come round on my birthday and have me a present and he said he did not know why was going on with C but every time he tries to talk about it now C closes up and that C is very concerned to make sure he sees the children.

[Nattersmatter]

Cretin is putting it mildly. So is *******. In my opinion, your ex2b is scum... nothing short of utter, utter scum. An outright sociopath.

 

Got advice, did he? Can't be a solicitor because - even leaving your own upkeep out of it - you cannot even FEED three kids on £340 per month, let ALONE clothe them and pay heating, electricity/gas, water bills and rent/mortgage! And you're working only PART time now.

 

Keep getting it in writing - email again: "You have failed to answer my question about the council tax". And keep forwarding it (at reasonable intervals of once per new day) until he does... or even if he doesn't. It'll look great when your solicitor sums up the whole episode to his solicitor and puts a copy in your case file which whole file will then get read by judgipoos.

 

Never mind about Janine and Jonathan at this precise moment. Sure, it'll be good to be able to cite infidelity, like I say. But this Interim Maintenance provision now takes priority.

 

Me, going by Janine's 'gosh, so tired, must dash(!!!)', I think Janine has already told C that you were 'suddenly' asking (6 weeks too late) about who she spent NYE with and that she thinks you're on to them, and that this beautifully-timed information from C about the pittance of £340 is meant to make you forget all about the who, where and when of his affair - to shock you off of that trail. Faster you get a solicitor, the faster you can get back ON that trail. (BTW - print out our exchanges, highlight everything that is relevant to cheating, and use it to show it to your solicitor if you wish to show him or her that you have reasons for such suspicion.)

 

Back to Jonathan. I guess he could be trying to stay neutral, his behaviour CAN be explained by that need. But Jonathan is being VERY naiive if he thinks he's going to be able to remain a friend to both of you after this. This isn't just about two people going their separate ways for only practical reasons, is it. It's about finding out that morally, you and C are like oil and water. So it'll be interesting to see which side Jonathan takes once he finds out C not only cheated on you but strung you along simply for his own convenience, greed and security.

 

Question: who was Jonathan friends with FIRST? Who actually met him and got chatting to him originally?

 

Does Jonathan even realise that the real reason C asked him round to "mediate" that time was actually so that it would prove an inhibiting factor where you asking difficult and probing questions (and C having to answer them and come clean) was concerned, i.e. that C duped and used him?

 

xoxo

[Supersarahp]

Jonathan is engaged to a girl called Sarah - they are totally in love all over each other ALL the time. My mum always used to say he had a thing for me - I don't think so - prob only cos he was single for many years .

 

So no he has nothing to do with Janine aside from us.

 

So Janine came around tonight. She says she went to the rugby ground today and saw this guy and have him a note with her number on it. She was full I it and went into minute detail - I do believe it to be true. I know the two (her and C, her and rugby man) are not mutually exclusive so I will remain cautious but I do t think her and C have anything now. Will keep probing. She did not mention C at all today - so wrapped up in this other guy she was.

 

What else? Oh yeah well I am taking omega 3, zinc , magnesium and some b thing . I presume that covers the epas ?

 

My boys said something to me today.

 

Liam said "daddy smashed his phone and banged his head right there" pointing to the window sill "he said he wanted to die"

 

Me: " that was very silly wasn't it?"

 

Liam: "when you get married the lady shouts at you and then you split up "

 

Joe: "I am gonna marry a boy when I grow up - you can do that can't you? Mummy you can marry a girl if you want "

 

Me : "yes you can if you want to but I don't want to . Not everyone splits up - look at grandma and grandad they have been married do 50 years"

 

Liam " yes they never argue"

 

That made me really sad. - I have made my son so cynical about relationships at the age of 4!

[Nattersmatter]

BTW - let me know when you get some solicitors names (ask around the schoolmums, also) and I'll tell you what revealing questions to screen them with. xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

Sorry I have moved to my phone - that tablet was a pain in the ass.

 

This is much faster

 

Yeah so I said "bedtime soon kids " and C said " oh we are going I. A minute " and I was like

 

"What? You just got here"

 

Ah, BUT... he was ham-yawwwn, gosh, SO tired, must dash!

 

I was incredulous because he had dropped the bomb that he wanted to end it - then we lived on eggshells for a week then he moved out and we had no contact for a week and I had kind of built up that that day was the day we would sort things out. And he wanted to stay for 5 mins.

 

Thereby proving that wanting Jonathan there so you could talk was utter BS. He'd banked on you say, 'What? Jonathan? No WAY, how EMBARRASSING!'. But you'd wrong-footed him and boxed him into a corner.

 

I imagine this contradiction must have struck Jonathan at the time, too?

 

So I said "well we need to talk really" and C got extremely agitated and said "see I can't be around you - I have to go I can't bear to be around you"

 

LOL, who does he think he's trying to kid.

 

Jonathan said "C talk to Sarah tell her what you Are feeling"

 

The question SHOULD have been, 'C, why did you ask me all the way around here to talk if you knew you didn't want to talk?'. So clearly Jonathan is ignorant, over-trusting and naiive where types like C are concerned, then.

 

And C said "I have to go Jonathan we have to get out of here"

 

I said "just talk to me - Jonathan is here - what are you afraid of?"

 

Him being stuck with a question he can't evade, that's what!

 

C said "you don't want me to start talking you REALLY don't"

 

(No, we DO, C, we really, really do! LOL )

 

I said " I do - I don't care what you say - it can't be any worse than what you have already put me through these past two weeks"

 

Jonathan again told him to tell me how he feels

 

Okay, maybe Jonathan DID cotton on. Hmm... Is that why Jonathan "oh, sorry" couldn't go out with him on NYE???

 

C said "right well first of all I didn't leave you THREW out"

 

I was like " no I didn't I begged you to stay"

 

C said " see Jonathan it is always all about her feelings "

 

LOL! (Talk sh*t, why don't you, C.)

 

I said " no it isn't - right now it is ALL about your feelings - you are calling all the shots"

 

Jonathan told me that I should give C some time and space.

 

I said that is what I have done for the past two weeks but unfortunately you can't put 3 kids lives on hold .

 

Yeah, see? You're too intelligent for him.

 

So C said he wanted to leave. He went upstairs and cuddled Liam and said to him "I am so sorry" and he was crying ©

 

Ooh, he did NOT - *Liam*? The youngest??? the baby??? - the emotionally manipulative child exploiting and abusing B******!!!

 

The man has zero morals. You married a PD (Narcissistic, Passive Aggressive, Sociopathic).

 

I said to Jonathan "it doesn't have to be like this" and I was also crying.

 

So C and Jonathan went outside and I said "are you still thinking of moving back in?"

 

And C sai he did not know.

 

I said I did not understand why he felt so angry with me and C said "YOU KNOW WHY"

 

And I said "because I am stressed?"

 

He said yes and other things. I sai what other things and C said he found it hard to tell me .

 

Oh how effing convenient.

 

Jonathan said "why don't we meet on Sunday and talk more then?" C agreed and so did I .

 

I asked C to write it all down if he couldn't say it and he need not even be there while I read it if he was scared of my reaction. He said he would talk on Sunday but would not promise to write it down.

 

Ah-hah-hah-haaah - didn't want anything in writing, eh! How telling.

 

So they left.

 

Well I did not know what time they were coming on the Sunday so I text C and asked but he did not respond . So I text Jonathan and asked and he said C told him he did not want him there on Sunday and was gonna bring Chris Singh instead.

 

Jonathan had failed so now it was time to try someone more sympathetic who *wouldn't* urge C to talk like he'd promised? Jonathan must SURELY have put 2 and 2 together at this point? Have you ever asked him?

 

Now Chris Singh goes through break ups all the time - he has had more relationships than hot dinners and is very flippant and matter of fact. I told Jonathan I was not happy that Chris Singh was coming instead of him .

 

Ah, so Chris Singh being the ANTI-relationship expert made him perfect for the job, then.

 

Well I spoke to C that night and said "are you bringing Chris Singh on Sunday" C said " no I am coming alone - I guess you have been speaking to Jonathan" I said he mentioned it . Then C got really nasty and said that I was trying to turn Jonathan against him. I said I was not.

 

Sigh. This is like hearing a well-worn script over and over and OVER AND OVER....

 

(BTW - WHAT had you spoken to J about? And why did C think J was now against him?)

 

Well after he call I spoke to Jonathan and he was bewildered. He said after the meeting C had said to him "see what she is like? All she cares about is herself." And Jonathan said he did not get that impression at all and C then said " I don't want you to come on Sunday I might ask Chris Singh instead"

 

Too transparent that he wasn't after a mediator or referree but a him-friendly-you-UN-friendly shield.

 

Well that was that really. Not heard a great deal from Jonathan since but he did come round on my birthday and have me a present and he said he did not know why was going on with C but every time he tries to talk about it now C closes up and that C is very concerned to make sure he sees the children.

 

Tell Jonathan it's because he proved uncooperative in being C's biased, prejudiced, duplicitously complicit shield rather than the objective, open-, fair-minded, friendly interloper he was. And that made him NOT C'S TYPE.

 

Good! Jonathan is obviously *not* on C's side.

 

And the reason why C is convinced you're going to block child access is because, you see, were the shoes on the other feet, that's exactly what C would do. PDs use even what should be sacrosanct as their mere selfish, low-down and dirty aim- and agendas-getting TOOLS.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

"An' we see his TWUUUUUUUE CO...LOURS... shiiiii-niiing throooough.... An' we see his TWUUUUUUUE CO-LOURS...an' that's why we don't-loove him, so DON'T BE AFRAID!....to let him shoooow...those... twuuuuuue co-lours.... twueeee co-o-lours....are puuuuke-i-ful....like a waaai-ain-bowww."

 

xoxo

[Supersarahp]

BTW - let me know when you get some solicitors names (ask around the schoolmums, also) and I'll tell you what revealing questions to screen them with. xoxo

 

I looked up some local ones online - I have no idea where to start - I guess I will speak to Steph (solicitor friend)

 

What questions???

 

Jonathan met C first - they is the same part time job on an evening about 12 years ago - I met him after about a month though so we have known him the same amount of time.

[Supersarahp]

Oh my God my typing on this phone is atrocious - sorry !

[Supersarahp]

 

And the reason why C is convinced you're going to block child access is because, you see, were the shoes on the other feet, that's exactly what C would do. PDs use even what should be sacrosanct as their mere selfish, low-down and dirty aim- and agendas-getting TOOLS.

 

xoxo

 

And now you know why I was so concerned he would try to take my kids away from me - because if he got the chance he would not hesitate

 

I will be consulting a solicitor ASAP!

[Nattersmatter]

Jonathan is engaged to a girl called Sarah - they are totally in love all over each other ALL the time. My mum always used to say he had a thing for me - I don't think so - prob only cos he was single for many years .

 

So no he has nothing to do with Janine aside from us.

 

Mums are always right. Hey, YOU know that, right? Cos you're so much older and wiser than your kids. So is your mum. Your mum is a MUM-mum. Mum-mums are always right-right.

 

Good! That means you should ask Jonathan and Sarah round for supper.

 

So Janine came around tonight.

 

GrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRAFF!!!

 

She says she went to the rugby ground today and saw this guy and [hand] him a note with her number on it. She was full I it and went into minute detail - I do believe it to be true. I know the two (her and C, her and rugby man) are not mutually exclusive so I will remain cautious but I do t think her and C have anything now. Will keep probing. She did not mention C at all today - so wrapped up in this other guy she was.

 

So, suddenly, since your pertinent question over NYE, suddenly - like lightning - Janine has got into gear, finally (FINALLY), over this rugby player? Gosh. How odd! But - WAIT - .....no proof that she saw him or handed him her number... just her word. And it would obviously be in her panicked interests to make you believe this story, or, indeed, to tell about this TRUE story. That way, you'll be saying...............well... what you're sat here saying right now, actually.

 

Anyway, no infidelity of C's has to be ongoing. It only has to have been one isolated incident (even a fumble and snog...in fact, even just emotional) and - bam! - irreconcilable differences combined with unreasonable behaviour known as Adultery.

 

What else? Oh yeah well I am taking omega 3, zinc , magnesium and some b thing . I presume that covers the epas ?

 

The EPAs *are* the Omega fish oils. Omega 3 pills or bread/whatever with extra Omega 3, aren't the same. It has to be EPA Omega 3 (high dose, pure) FISH OIL CAPSULES (no trace elements). Is it?

 

My boys said something to me today.

 

Liam said "daddy smashed his phone and banged his head right there" pointing to the window sill "he said he wanted to die"

 

Mmm. All that RIGHT IN FRONT OF LITTLE MISTER GO-TELL-MUMMY PARROT FEATURES? Air, how qu*er!

 

Me: " that was very silly wasn't it?"

 

 

 

Liam: "when you get married the lady shouts at you and then you split up "

 

Joe: "I am gonna marry a boy when I grow up - you can do that can't you? Mummy you can marry a girl if you want "

 

Me : "yes you can if you want to but I don't want to . Not everyone splits up - look at grandma and grandad they have been married do 50 years"

 

Liam " yes they never argue"

 

That made me really sad. - I have made my son so cynical about relationships at the age of 4!

 

Well, then, you'd better sit down and explain what heinous things MAKE a woman feel so exasperated and despairing she loses self-control and shouts, hadn't you. And about how to be the type of man who *doesn't* do that to a woman.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

And now you know why I was so concerned he would try to take my kids away from me - because if he got the chance he would not hesitate

 

I will be consulting a solicitor ASAP!

 

Excellente, senorina! You will NOT regret it.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

I looked up some local ones online - I have no idea where to start - I guess I will speak to Steph (solicitor friend)

 

Definitely!

 

What questions???

 

The most important is, What percentage of your divorce cases go to High Court for final financial settlement? You want to hear that about only 93% do (although it depends what financial echelon his client base belongs in because, obviously, the richer the couple the more the need to go higher than Magistrate level).

 

Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT agree to go in for mediation style divorce. You need a canny, BS-sensitive, experienced JUDGE with a "man" like your ex2b.

 

The other question is, 'Are you especially good at dealing with out-and-out Machievellis?'

 

Another: 'Are you a shark?' (You want a shark. S/he won't be a shark to you because you're his/her client.)

 

Another: 'Has a client of yours ever tried to take you to court for negligence or malpractise?' (Ensure to say 'tried to'.)

 

Jonathan met C first - they is the same part time job on an evening about 12 years ago - I met him after about a month though so we have known him the same amount of time.

 

Okay, a month is nothing. And clearly J was not willing to cooperate with C's stupid little games. I reiterate: I think J has passed muster.

 

xoxo

[Nattersmatter]

PS: "Well, then, you'd better sit down and explain what heinous things MAKE a woman feel so exasperated and despairing she loses self-control and shouts, hadn't you. And about how to be the type of man who *doesn't* do that to a woman."

 

Using a censored, kid-friendly example, obviously.

 

Try, when a schoolfriend has stolen your pencil case and won't give it back but says they will give it back they just don't know when and they can't because you're making them so upset asking for it all the time that they're incapable of remembering where they hid it....etc...

 

xoxo