Is she having second thoughts? What is this? All thoughts very welcome.

[nbr]

So, those of you following my train wreck of a marriage already know the details, but here's the super condensed version...

Wife of 10 (together 20) years dropped the bomb that she wanted to be free to date other people about 6 months ago.

Tried MFT and everything under the sun, including being an absolute doormat.

Had a *small* (ha ha ha) mental breakdown, been out on disability for the last month in an intensive therapy program (really helped).

Started a real 180 in earnest.

 

Christmas eve she said she decided, it is final, we're done. I spent the rest of the evening quietly crying as I wrapped Santa's presents for the kids.

As of Christmas day, she's my best friend (maybe FWB, we'll see), and the mother of my children, but while we live together still, she is my ex. I am ok with it, and start talking with her about life afterwards, when I move out we need a custody and support plan (she's going to get 50% of my current take home as child support and alimony [i keep all bonuses and raises], at least for a while, till she's employed).

Custody will be 50/50, with me taking Monday/Tuesday her Wednesday/Thursday, and alternating Friday-Sunday's.

 

We both will be poor... But should be workable.

 

Then she asked about if I was going to date.

Sure, why not.

Who?

there are two moms at the school that look like they are nice. Told her my criteria are: they don't want any more kids, and they have to accept my kids openly. Looks is a plus, but not nearly as important as being comforting to each other.

 

Well, she ended up breaking down in tears, sobbing, hiding in her bed.

Said some things about one of the ladies being her friend and some stuff about how I'll have a line of girls, but she won't have anyone (ha ha, as I write this she's out with *the Guy* and his kids bowling, I'm making more cookies for my AA meeting).

 

She said how I had made her so sad, I reminded her of what she said Christmas Eve: "There's no one out there for me, any woman with a halfway decent husband won't let them go."

By extension that means I'm not even halfway decent because she's letting me go. She then went on about "It's not you, it's me..."

 

So wise women (and experienced men) of ENA

Is she having second thoughts? I'm not. I realized once we split, her issues don't *have* to be my issues... they can be if I want them to be, of if they involve the kids, but if they are just her issues I can happily not deal with them anymore...

 

What gives here? By talking to her about my moving on, I was really hoping to give her that final kick that she too can really move on and look for happiness. I really do love her so much that her happiness is worth more to me than my own.

 

Thanks, happy holidays, and happy new year!

-nbr

[Cheetarah]

I am so sorry for the way you spent your Christmas Eve.

 

I am more of a reader than a poster these days but I've read most of your threads. I'll be frank with my opinion, and it's just that - I don't think she's having second thoughts at all. I think your wife wants to know you're 'available'(read: Not dating, not involved, pining away writing sonnets with a fountain pen by moonlight) to her while she mosies around and does her thing. Sounds like she's feeling sorry for herself, and it's not about you at all but rather her ego.

[LoveHim]

I totally agree with Cheetarah!

 

She wants you to sit back and wait, not date...whlie she goes out and see's other people. She doesn't want to mend things. She wants to move on to other men but doesn't want you to move on to anyone else. She is being selfish.

[rask]

I am so sorry for the way you spent your Christmas Eve.

 

I am more of a reader than a poster these days but I've read most of your threads. I'll be frank with my opinion, and it's just that - I don't think she's having second thoughts at all. I think your wife wants to know you're 'available'(read: Not dating, not involved, pining away writing sonnets with a fountain pen by moonlight) to her while she mosies around and does her thing. Sounds like she's feeling sorry for herself, and it's not about you at all but rather her ego.

 

Can't agree with this more. She's upset that you're moving on FROM her.

 

It was fine for her to do it with you... but don't you dare lose feelings for her.

[pl3asehelp]

She seems mentally ill. Are you sure you really trust her to have custody of your kids when you're not there to supervise? I don't think I would. Also, definitely go to a lawyer about the custody and child support alimony stuff. If you just wing it, you're really opening yourself up to being taken advantage of, particularly when later on she does decide to lawyer up and it's just your word against hers that you've already paid her some. She'll come after you for back pay and get it.

[Ms Darcy]

Having followed your threads, I will just say that I hope in two years that you are divorced, moved on from your wife, co-parenting your kids, and dating a woman who is more loving and faithful to you.

 

As it stands, she wants to date other dudes while you pine for her. Not fair at all.

[Gimpyrks]

Sounds like she is narcissistic to me. She can do what she wants (date around) but if you do it's a no no. Looks like she is playing off your feelings. As soon as you can I'd tell her you don't wish to communicate unless it is about the kids. Of course you can be civil but she should not have a free pass into your feelings/emotions/life.

[nbr]

Ha ha ha ha, Like I said I've really started a 180

In the past these replies would have been crushing, but in fact I am happy. This is what I was thinking...

 

Now to answer some questions:

She seems mentally ill. Are you sure you really trust her to have custody of your kids when you're not there to supervise? I don't think I would. Also, definitely go to a lawyer about the custody and child support alimony stuff. If you just wing it, you're really opening yourself up to being taken advantage of, particularly when later on she does decide to lawyer up and it's just your word against hers that you've already paid her some. She'll come after you for back pay and get it.

Yes, she is. She is an abuse victim who has not made the leap to survivor, instead being absolutely co-dependent. All the agreements are going to be in writing and signed by both of us. We will both sign two copies. Support payments will be made by direct deposit from my employer into her account. While separated we will not need lawyers, if we decide to dissolve the marriage then we will share a paralegal/lawyer. Do I have fears about the kids? No, not at all. They mean the whole world to both of us. They kept me alive in my darkest hour (about 2.5 weeks ago, in fact). They do similar things for her.

 

I am so sorry for the way you spent your Christmas Eve.

[...]I don't think she's having second thoughts at all. I think your wife wants to know you're 'available'(read: Not dating, not involved, pining away writing sonnets with a fountain pen by moonlight) to her while she mosies around and does her thing. Sounds like she's feeling sorry for herself, and it's not about you at all but rather her ego.

That's what my thought was, the tears were genuine though, a "what have a wrought" kind of sadness. But I think you're right, they were tears for her, not at me.

I hope in two years that you are divorced, moved on from your wife, co-parenting your kids, and dating a woman who is more loving and faithful to you.

That's the plan at least. Going to wait at least a year before "going steady" with anyone or considering sex.

As soon as you can I'd tell her you don't wish to communicate unless it is about the kids. Of course you can be civil but she should not have a free pass into your feelings/emotions/life

Sorry, can't do it.

Current plan (assuming my dad goes for it):

I move in with my dad after my mom dies, help pay for and fix up the house (both things he can't do on his own).

Wife will come over one weekend a months (alternating who's weekend it is) and we will go on a costco run together (cheaper, but don't individually need costco sized stuff). Then the following day we will prep and freeze a bunch of meals for easy dinners throughout the month. We've recently started doing this and it's both slashed the grocery bill, and made it devilishly easy to get dinner on the table. In addition, my dad's house is on over an acre and has an orchard. We'll pick and can together as well (something we've both always enjoyed together). We really are best friends, and that's a big part of the problem. We are both guilty of looking at each other more as friends/brother sister than we are as spouses. We started dating at 16, her brother was killed shortly afterwards (3 months), and her dad ran off (her mom's new hubby was the shooter) with a mental breakdown. So, in many ways I replaced her brother and father emotionally.

 

Fact of the matter is I do love her. I love her so much more than just as a spouse, and it is that love which allows me to finally accept that we are not spouses, but earnest friends who happened to work together to produce two absolutely wonderful human beings, our children.

 

Thank you all.

-nbr

[DN]

She wants to make sure you are available in case she changes her mind down the road if things don't work out for her - a safety net in other words. I hope you won't consider that for a heart-beat.

[nbr]

Heh, I told her I will wait for her to find someone and start dating, then I will assume she's decided and I will move on. As long as she stays single I will leave the door open, after that... not so much.

-nbr

[Ms Darcy]

Heh, I told her I will wait for her to find someone and start dating, then I will assume she's decided and I will move on. As long as she stays single I will leave the door open, after that... not so much.

-nbr

 

I think you need to finally wise up. You are doing this to get her back. Best way to actually do that is to have her respect. She'll respect you if you stop being a doormat and move on.

[pl3asehelp]

All the agreements are going to be in writing and signed by both of us. We will both sign two copies. Support payments will be made by direct deposit from my employer into her account. While separated we will not need lawyers, if we decide to dissolve the marriage then we will share a paralegal/lawyer.

 

You should get a lawyer before signing anything or giving her any money. You will regret it later when she sues you for money you already gave her and it's going to affect your kids when you're flat broke or bankrupt because of this. The fact that you decided to direct deposit money to her is not going to matter. She can say that was for anything. Get a lawyer for your kids sake.

[nbr]

In the fine tradition here at ENA of posting your letter rather than sending it, I submit the following to you all for thoughts. Please note, as of yet I have not moved out (still working with my dad to get him through the worst of losing my mom).

 

Wife,

I do not know what I am supposed to say, but I know what I want to say. I want more than anything to show you how the last six months have felt for me, but I cannot show, so I will tell instead.

 

Almost 6 months ago (about two weeks after my birthday) you told me that you wanted to separate, to be free to date. I panicked, for a week I panicked. Then you left and I was home alone. I stayed busy with only one mantra going through my head every waking moment of the day. “If I work harder she’ll come back”. You never came back. You returned from your vacation, temporarily happy from the flowers and a textured wall, but soon to return to being unhappy with me. “If I work harder still she will come back”. Eventually I could work no harder and stay employed, so I gave up my employment to continue working harder. “If I stop drinking and stop dipping and stay positive and keep working hard on making myself a better dad, she’ll come back”. But you didn’t. I was still not good enough. Growing up I Never was good enough for my dad. It is very hard to live not being good enough all the time for someone you look up to and respect and you’re supposed to love, when you have grown up with the person and love them more than your own soul, it is thousands of times harder; not being good enough.

 

I lived in fear of failure for the last 6 months; I lived with the sorrow of constant defeat. Christmas Eve it was simply too much and I felt myself break inside. You said three things that night, only one did you retract. You said I was not even a halfway decent man, because any woman will keep even a halfway decent man, and you (a very fine specimen of a woman) were discarding me. You also said that you were sorry that it was the way it was, but that while you loved me, you were not in love with me, and didn’t think you ever would be in love with me again. And finally, you got cross with me for crying about the realization that in addition to that eve being my last Christmas with my mother it was also my last Christmas with my wife and children as a family. That was it. That was the moment I felt my heart wren upon the coals of a burned down marriage. I let go. I let *everything* go.

 

I let go of my failures, I let go of my hope for a future with ‘us’. I let go of the idea of being a nuclear family, of growing old together. I let go of my grievances with you, about how I thought you went beyond rational boundaries of a marriage in your relationship with Guy. I let go of being excluded from my children’s lives when it included him, even when it was something you knew I always liked. I let go of your severe mood swings and mean streaks. I let go of being on eggshells. I let go of the bonds I placed upon myself, the bonds I imagined upon you. That night I set you free, and in doing so I set myself free as well. It is a night I will always remember, always a sore spot, a wound incapable of healing, yet liberating as well.

 

You were very clear that you wanted me to not talk to you anymore about my feelings, nor to MyGuy or anyone else at the school. I let myself talk to someone not at school, not at work. I cried to her, because there was no one else to cry to. She cried to me, for much the same reason. Neither of us was interested in a relationship beyond that of two people who were hurt and licking their wounds. She cheered me on for AA, and we talked about the future. A future where she and I were friends.

 

Then yesterday happened. We had a marvelous day in the bay. I was enjoying being out with my children, their mother, and my best friend in the whole world. Why then, were you so angry about me posting to Facebook, sharing my new joy of my children; conversing with my sponsor, sharing in the new found joy of sobriety; and with my friend from the dojo, who needed a cry? Why when I showed you that our conversations were about issues, not about passion, that you read from that we were lost?

 

Why did it take all that, all the emotion of the day to finally get you to open a door to me and say you had hoped we would have worked it out?

 

With that simple phrase you took me all the way back to the 12th of July. All the way back to the beginning. Had I, by finally coming to acceptance and giving in to what you repeatedly showed me, told me, and scolded me that you wanted, actually come to failure again? I was completely mute, completely lost for words. When I tried to speak I could not even form a solid coherent thought, much less a compelling one. You said how dare I turn this back unto you? I know not how to handle this any other way.

 

If you really do hope that this will work, if you really have found that yesterday a window was opened into your fortress and you enjoyed the breeze that came in, then I implore you not to close it. I would love nothing more than to reconcile, even now. If you are willing to do what I have finally been able to do, if you are finally able to let the past sleep in peace, to forge a new path, one free of snags, rocks, and chasms; if you are now willing to work with me through your woundings to me and those done unto you before I existed, then I will be here for you, and you alone. If you are willing to forgive all, to forgive yourself those demons I plainly see within you, that you have till now refused to confront, then I will stand by you, I will hold you up to the sun, I will cheer for you, I will protect you, and I will cherish you. I ask nothing more in return than that you leave that window open and enjoy some fresh air and sunlight upon your soul.

 

I have been and will forever be yours for the asking.

-nbr

[DN]

No don't send it,

 

It's time for you to move on.