Importance of the SMILE.

[Polis]

Unemployment isn't attractive. You should really calm down; you shouldn't have to "try" to impress a girl, a girl should be impressed by who you are without trying.

[Dougie_D]

To be able to be TOTALLY independent from my family's financial support (having NO money coming in and still be able to eat), I will need to land at least a 20,000 per year job.

 

What type of jobs can someone get for that? If I land a part-time job, it seems like I would have to start like 15 per hour just to get close. If I averaged 30 hours a week.

 

Unless I get a job 20,000 per year, I'm STILL gonna have to have my parents help me out with some money. My house rent alone, is 600 a month.

[Polis]

So? Your point? Get a full-time job and start weening yourself off your parents.

 

If they help you out, ok, but having a full-time job will help you more than whining on a forum.

 

What are your degrees?

[Dougie_D]

University Studies Degree(general degree) - 3 minors - Liberal Arts, Mass Communication, and Business -- Graduate 2004

 

Associate Degree in Video Production -- graduate in 2006

 

I don't have a point really. I'm just trying to figure out how to even get a decent job with my LACK of experience.

[blueidealist24]

It isn't necessarily a problem if the minimum wage employer thinks you're only going to be there temporarily. They expect they'll have a high turnover rate of employees. My boss at Dairy Queen hires a pack of people for the summer and doesn't care if a bunch of them leave in the winter. She doesn't have the hours for them anyway in the winter so it's not like an offense/deal-breaker to her if they're not going to stay.

 

Yeah, you might not be able to be *completely* independent of your parents working a retail or fast food job, but you'll be more independent than you are now. You could even work your way up to some sort of management position if you wanted.

 

In this economy, the employer may not question why you're applying to retail when you have two degrees, especially when they're arts degrees. My friends and I have arts degrees and a lot of us are taking whatever we can get, and nobody's standing there in shock.

[wsim]

Stop making excuses.... get a job, pay the bills and support yourself. If you can't do that at your age, then forget about attracting a girl, nobody wants that.

 

From your posts, it doesn't appear that you even tried at all.

[tiredofvampires]

I agree with blueidealist that an employer would have to be pretty dense in this rough economy we're having to question you about why you need a job when you have two degrees. Even people with post-graduate degrees and six-figure incomes have had to take whatever they can get, or are unemployed now. People who were settled in cushy jobs are out there, laid off, waiting tables or considering food stamps. So, it's you and everyone else.

 

I'm not sure about your interviewing skills, to be honest. The sample interview you provided sounds like you telling an employer that this isn't really what you'd prefer, but since business is slow, you need this to pick up extra cash and still plan on pursuing your other job prospects. You don't say that kind of stuff to someone who's considering hiring you. You make a point of meeting every question they ask with enthusiasm about your ability to work with them. You don't have to go on gushing, but you make it clear that whatever other job/career/professional aspirations you've had, you are a practical, realistic person who values hard work, whatever that work is. You focus on selling yourself as someone who would make a first-rate worker, not "sloppy seconds." I just get a really wishy-washy vibe from how you'd project yourself. Whatever job you're applying for, you tell them what strengths you have that apply to this work, and keep the emphasis there. And use good eye contact and a firm handshake.

 

You might have to knock on 30 or 50 doors before someone says yes, but your goal should be scouring the ads every day and committing to applying to at least a handful each day. This should be your #1 goal. You might be able to get two part-time jobs to equal full-time work.

 

This doesn't lock you in for the rest of your life, if on the side, you continue to seriously pursue your other aspirations. I know several professional artists (some are performing artists, others visual art) who are seriously esteemed in their fields, but they STILL have to work at jobs that are either unrelated or tangentially related, just to pay the bills (and get benefits, like health coverage and a pension plan). You have to understand that for the vast majority of people in creative fields, money is going to be unpredictable, fickle and often not commensurate with your efforts to get ahead (unlike other professions like doctor, lawyer, and other very streamlined and clearly-defined career paths), and you have to adapt to that reality. So making music the part-time work doesn't have to mean it's a "hobby", if you keep networking and building on your efforts. It's just that you've got to have a foundation of work anyway. Many of my friends started with dirt jobs (and so did I). But you have to start somewhere. If you keep saying, "How am I going to get a decent job without experience?" how is that going to get you experience? It's not gonna get you ANYWHERE, is it? Like I said before, the longer your inexperience goes on, the less people will see you as a viable option to hire as you get older and have more of a crater in your resume. ANYTHING is better than that, because then the question won't be about your degrees, it'll be why you haven't worked for 5, 10 years. It'll look really bad and you won't be able to explain that away well, without looking like someone who is impractical and has no work ethic. Experience can lead to new opportunities or advancement even within the job you're at, but at very least, it keeps you in the workforce and therefore, as someone who has had to learn skills and apply yourself.

 

I am really feeling like I'll be backtracking in LIFE if I don't get a DECENT JOB. I'll be 31 with 2 degrees working with highschool kids. Yeah, try telling that to girl you are trying to impress.

 

You might have a chance to work with highschool kids?

 

If that's ever been on the table, you need to snatch that up, because that could amount to 20k. (though to do that well, you have to really in fact sincerely be interested in youth, and that I'm not sure you would be.)

 

If you did a poll asking which would impress women more, you working with highschool kids so you can be independent and pay your bills, or keep waiting for the music business hustling to pan out while you're supported by your parents, you'd find 0% favoring the latter scenario.

 

I think you have women confused with your dad. Sure, a lot of women go for a man with status (especially in flashy L.A.), but most decent women care more about what you've done to improve your lot and get ahead, and the kind of person you are -- not whatever it is you'd like to boast about. And you're no where near that point yet so it's all hypothetical, while meantime, you're just stagnating.

[Dougie_D]

You might have a chance to work with highschool kids?

 

If that's ever been on the table, you need to snatch that up, because that could amount to 20k. (though to do that well, you have to really in fact sincerely be interested in youth, and that I'm not sure you would be.)

 

No. I meant my CO-WORKERS would most likely be highschool kids or at least 10 years younger than me. When I was working at Sam's, the majority of the cashiers or my co-workers (cart guys) were working and going to college...or highschool drop-outs. Then you had the OLDER people who didn't have any degrees.

 

It was annoying when those people were saying "why are you working here" "you got a degree! that means something"... not really!

 

Also --- I'm not like the artist friends. I want to be on the OTHER side. I'm past being in bands, or being a musician. I want to work for a record label.

 

So, I'm looking for a job that is a low-level starting job so I eventually I CAN MOVE UP. I don't see myself wanting to move up at a retail store. That's where my parents and I argued. I didn't want to move up in the business because I didn't want to be in the retail-field.

 

That's what I'm having a hard time dealing with. I don't know where to look. All these jobs want experience. The management company I interned with didn't work with signed bands...so, to me, that experience was kind of a waste. I didn't experience any real big things.

 

Oh..and if you ever start hearing a band called SWISS LIPS... Yeah, I started that buzz. They signed to a Major label. I'm tired of tipping lawyers, managers, labels, booking agents, and not getting any type of "finders fee".

 

I just feel stuck. I came out to LA...got the validation that I wanted (Could I be an A&R rep for a label) and YES, I could. When I was interning at the record label the other A&R Interns thought that I was working at a Major label already. Band after band, were being snatched. Ugh...

[Dougie_D]

I'm not sure about your interviewing skills, to be honest. The sample interview you provided sounds like you telling an employer that this isn't really what you'd prefer, but since business is slow, you need this to pick up extra cash and still plan on pursuing your other job prospects. You don't say that kind of stuff to someone who's considering hiring you

 

I'm not going to ACT like I want the job. Ill let them know that I need some extra cash and I'll do my best in whatever I'm doing...but I won't be happy about it. How can someone get excited over something that they feel like is going to drag down their life? There was a reason why I didn't give a crap about some classes in college. I got a F, D, C ...whatever. But I got an A+ on the ones I did care about.

 

I don't really lie about my feelings, especially if someone is asking for the truth.

[ApocalypseDreams]

I think it is a real shame you've allowed your parents to pay your way for so long because it has given you a very negative (or rather non existant) work ethic.

 

I'd say if you have an opportunity to even work part time and still get money from your folks then that is an improvement on your current situation. At least you'd start learning what it is like to have a job, get some work experience, meet some new people and feel a little more independent than you currently are.

[agent1607307371]

I'm not going to ACT like I want the job. Ill let them know that I need some extra cash and I'll do my best in whatever I'm doing...but I won't be happy about it. How can someone get excited over something that they feel like is going to drag down their life? There was a reason why I didn't give a crap about some classes in college. I got a F, D, C ...whatever. But I got an A+ on the ones I did care about.

 

Ok, honestly then, you're never going to get anywhere. Life is all about smoothing the path and little white lies - no one is going to hire someone who can't make the effort to pretend they want to work for them. No one wants people who only put effort into things they can already do.

 

You make yourself fail Dougie. You like failing and complaining about it.

[Snowy]

You need to man up and quit complaining.

 

You know that you fail, but all you do is come to ENA to try to argue and seek validation.

 

You already know your answers, but you never want to put action to anything.

[epsilon2x]

To be able to be TOTALLY independent from my family's financial support (having NO money coming in and still be able to eat), I will need to land at least a 20,000 per year job.

 

Dude if 20,000 is what you're shooting for you really only need $10/hour x 40hours/week. I pay more than that to guys that work for me. Get a job in the labor business. Contractors always need a guy who is willing to work hard and it'll keep you in shape. Even starting at the bottom in a labor business, the starting wage is usually around 12 an hour and you'll get all the hours you want. Alot of times you're paid in cash too so you're actually bringing home more money.

 

On the side, I buy and resell things all the time. Find a niche that you know alot about, possibly music equipment. Learn as much as you can about it, buy them off craigslist then resell them again on craigslist or ebay. It's like being a self employed salesman. It's easy work and the payoff is good. If you learn enough and find out what the market needs in your area, you can even become a distributor of certain music equipment to local bands.

 

On that note, since you can't find a job, now would be the perfect time to venture out on your own to do something like that. You have nothing to lose.

[midnightdeirdre]

Many girls have said they want a guy with a nice smile? What if this guy SMILES a lot ,but it's not the PERFECT one?

 

I know that when you smile, you have to show teeth. For me, I PHYSICALLY can't smile and show teeth at the same time, unless I slightly open my mouth and slightly smile.

 

Is this a dealbreaker? Not having a normal looking smile?

 

Smile on the inside. It will show on your face.

[capuccino83]

You need to brush up on your interview skills and become okay with telling people what they want to hear (it's okay to lie sometimes). First, take off the two degrees from your resume, they don't need to know that and fill in the two year gap with something such as self-employed. Second:

 

EMPLOYER --- Why do you need this job?

 

ME --- I moved to LA to pursue my own business, but with the financial crisis, recession and jobless recovery, I need a part-time job to supplement my income.

 

EMPLOYER --- Oh, so you are not planning on being here long term?

 

ME --- As I said before, I'm self-employed, and given current economic projects, it will probably be a while before business picks up, so I can see myself working here at least in the medium term. Are you looking for a specific time of committment from your employees and how long does the average employee work here before leaving?

 

EMPLOYER --- hmmm...... yea, I'd like someone to work here for at least 6 months so not to waste time hiring a new person.

 

ME ---- Oh yea, I'll def be here past 6 months.

 

You just tell them what htey want to hear!

[blueidealist24]

Yeah, it's ok to lie even if it makes you feel like a bad person. Well, not outright lie, but lead them to believe you might stay longer.. when I worked at Canadian Tire one summer I told them I planned on maybe staying there during the school year, when my intentions all along were to quit after the summer. They didn't really seem to care when I left.

[blueidealist24]

Btw, would you consider going back to school and taking something that has more job opportunities in this economy in order to land a better job? This economy IS very unfortunate for us arts majors! I'm probably heading back to take something like business administration after I get some savings under my belt, even though I don't WANT to take business administration very much.

[capuccino83]

Btw, would you consider going back to school and taking something that has more job opportunities in this economy in order to land a better job? This economy IS very unfortunate for us arts majors! I'm probably heading back to take something like business administration after I get some savings under my belt, even though I don't WANT to take business administration very much.

 

Going back to school is not necessarily the answer in this economy unless you're getting a degree for which there is an employement shortage such as engineering. I'm getting an MBA from a great school and there are tons of people struggling to find jobs.

[blueidealist24]

Wow, just realized how far this thread has digressed, at first it was about how attractive someone's smile is, lol! But I think this might have been more helpful.

[Fudgie]

Tech school or vocational school is a good choice though. I personally would never tell someone to go to a 4 year school to get a Bach in order to get a job. But tech school or vocational school for skilled labor in okay-paying but needed jobs are great options for some. They cost significantly less than the 4 year schools, and you aren't in school that long...usually enough to get your Associates or just a certificate.

[Galaxo]

Again, I know what MY PROBLEM is..I don't have my own independence because I don't have MY OWN money. I constantly check job postings but they all require a certain amount of experience! I don't even have the opportunity to post my resume!

 

I can't DO anything right now since I'll be out on the ROAD for 2 months. I am not sure if I'll be getting paid because the band won't be making much. Musicians are poor on the road.

 

Apply anyway. I have no degree. I just changed jobs recently, degree required, over a thousand applicants, 4 jobs, and I got one of them. If you know your stuff for the jobs your applying for, let them know, prove it to them, and sell yourself. The first time about 20 years ago I stayed in contact with the company for over a year before I got hired. It was quicker than going and getting the 4 year degree they wanted. I kept being told they wanted a degree, I kept proving to them I knew what they needed. I refused to take no for a answer, literally. I was told I needed to get a degree several times, then I was asked how many times was I going to keep applying and get told I needed a degree. I told them until they hired me. I wanted THAT job at THAT company. I think the HR department got tired of me and hired me thinking I would go be a supervisors problem instead of theirs.

 

 

In case you wonder why I kept on and on with that company long ago. I didn't have a job with the company, if I gave up I still wasn't going to have a job there. Nothing to lose, everything to gain.

[Dougie_D]

Galaxo --- In my field, a degree doesn't mean anything. I'm just looking for an open opportunity. And nowadays you don't hire someone UNLESS they bring something to the table. Also, labels don't care about YOURSELF. They care about what you have done for bands and if the band is making money. You have to adapt to the trends. There are SO many people trying to get jobs who have been working in the field for 10 years..but no one cares, because why? They are not currently working with the genre, bands, etc...that are creating some type of revenue. What happen to all these alternative rock bands? They rarely exist...so if you have a resume that is full of contacts that have to do with this genre, you are useless.

 

I live in a world where credibility is a big issue. It's been hard for me to be attached to a band that is buzzing when all they want to do is work with bigger type companies or people. They never agree to want to work with me. I understand. Why would a band want to work with a newbie when the majors come calling?

 

So...I have to figure out a way to work for the MAJORS.... That's where I get lost.

[Fudgie]

So what do you do when that doesn't work out?

[blueidealist24]

You need to put the music stuff on the back burner for a little while and find other employment..

 

Have you ever thought about teaching music?

[Dougie_D]

So what do you do when that doesn't work out?

 

I keep on working for NO pay or LITTLE pay. If I completely STOP --- that get's me nowhere.

 

I'll need to find a part-time job for STABLE income. I would prefer it to be something that has to do with my field so I don't get too consumed with a crappy job.

 

Teaching music is not an option. I don't have the patience for teaching others and I don't know musical theory. I actually hate musical theory.

 

Actually....after my 2 month tour. I might just move out and find a cheaper place and just get hired as a roadie/tour manager with another band. I'm not looking to buy things, like a house on my own anytime soon. Plus, the more I tour, the more I'll be able to network. So, that's becoming an option.

 

SXSW is coming up and I'll be there. Hopefully I'll be able to get something after that!