Legal confusion AGAIN

[confusedmama]

Been so busy I haven't posted or even been on in a long while, but I need some advice, help, or a new life!

 

Short run-down, ex got remarried in June (whooppee) then proceeds to take me back to court to get more time with the kids as he has moved 45 minutes away and wants them overnights for visitation. This got shot down by the boys, the judge, the GAL. THEN the judge orders ME to pay the GAL fee because of HIS increased family (she has 4 kids) BUT didn't take into account her salary OR the SSI for the kids as her past husband is deceased. Is there any way I can appeal this?

 

On top of that the ex has appealled the rulings and now we are headed back to circuit court for which I have to hire a lawyer-MORE MONEY!! Can I get HIM to pay for this expense?? every time we have gone back to court he has intiated it-I'm in debt waaay to deep.

 

Anybody got any help???

[avman]

You can try to appeal but it is probably not worth it over a GAL fee. You'll have to pay your attorney to do the appeal so any savings would likely be lost by paying an attorney fee. Not to mention the GAL will have to prepare a brief for the appeal and you'll end up paying for that too if you lose.

 

Now your attorney fees generated by his appeal you might be able to get. It's worth a try to put in a motion to get him to pay for it stating he's filing these motions/appeals in bad faith and protracting the litigation.

[confusedmama]

Avman,

Thanks for that information. I keep trying to think of how to word it to get the fees back as the amount of $$ I owe lawyers is enormous now. I would also have to get a new lawyer again and will have to since we are no longer in J&D court but in civil court. The GAL fees were close to $400.00 this time I guess I feel put out that I have to pay for them since I didn't iniate the case nor did I spend any time with the GAL buthe had to drive out to the ex's new house and spend time with the new family & wife.

 

I wish there were also a way I could get the court to approve payment of the extras for the boys that he refuses, ie school supplies, behind the wheel, class rings, etc...

[lavenderdove]

One of the most important things to do in order to be 'successfully' divorced is to try to let go of all the past grievances/petty jealousies/need to get even out of the equation.

 

You have to try to look at it like the court would look at it, or you will end up forever in court fighting over small things and small amounts of money, meanwhile having to pay horrendous legal and court fees that are far more than any money you might recover out of the proceedings.

 

Remember too that appeals are not strikes against your ex, they are strikes against the judge who made the decision, and unless the judge is a fruitcake who violated all kind of laws with his decision, spending money to appeal, especially for a relatively 'small' sum like $400 (small in legal terms) will be throwing more money away.

 

And trying to get your husband in court to pay for small things like school supplies, and optional things like class rings, just isn't to your advantage. the judge may look at it as if you are using the legal system to try to carry on a grievance against your husband and punish him because you are angry about the new wife.

 

People get the mistaken assumption that the court system is all about being 'fair' but it usually doesn't work out that way. Judges have lots of discretion and leeway in terms of decisions they make, and if you irritate them or file for small or frivolous amounts, it can go against you and you can end up worse off.

 

So if he drags this thru appeal again, your lawyer can request that he pay the GAL this time since you paid the last time, but if you start trying to drag in extra stuff in like asking he pay for the kid's school rings (which are optional and many children don't get them even in two parent families due to the expense), you might look like you are either money grubbing or trying to punish your ex husband by demanding extra money for optional or small items.

[Atticus90]

Why not ask your ex to see if you can go in half and half. At least meet each other halfway on this. Doesn't always have to be the MAN who pays it... He already got shotdown for wanting to see his children. Least you can do is pay some of the court fees.

[confusedmama]

I haven't askd to go back to court since we were divorced over 5 years ago and yet I am dragged into court at least 3 times a year. I didn't appeal this ruling, he did, I didn't ask for the first proceeding, he did. This is getting expensive and is unfair to the children as I have to spend money that I don't have to take care of fighting I'm not starting instead of taking care of them.

 

The original question was if it was appeallable for the fee, since I have to hire a lawyer to fight the appeal I was simply wondering if I could ask for these fees to be taken care of by the person who continues to drag this out.

 

I am definitely not money grubbing ( I get $400/mth for 3 kids) and he doesn't even pay for school lunches when he has them on school days. He contimues to take me back to court because in VA, child support is determined on the number of days you have for visitation-he wants more visitation so to lower his CS.

[Atticus90]

He contimues to take me back to court because in VA, child support is determined on the number of days you have for visitation-he wants more visitation so to lower his CS.

 

Did he tell you those were his motives? Can't always assume the worst out of people. If I were paying child support, I'd want to see my kids more. I'll be damned if Ima pay 100 - 200 a month for a couple days a week visit. I want more bang for my buck. k?

 

Back to your question. You can probably appeal it. Does seem unfair that you have to pay for the appeal that he's initiating. If you don't object to him seeing his kids more, then I'd go through mediation to give him his time and nip it in the bud so you don't have to worry about future court fees. Seems logical right? Give him what he wants and you get what you want. He wont stop taking you to court. He'll either break the judge down or break you down.

 

I'm about to go through the same thing with my son and my ex. I hate seeing ex's fight. Especially when children are involved. I advise you to give him what he wants so you get what you want in return.

[confusedmama]

Atticus,

I would LOVE to be able to ask my ex for half. Shooot, I'd love to be able to ask him for anything. It just doesn't happen that way. He got shot down for wanting to see his children on his terms, not on theirs. He wanted to see them at times that would make his life easier, not that he would be spending any more time with them (they would be sleeping) and then requiring them to get up earlier in the morning to get to school. I have no problem with him seeing his children whenever he would like, as long as he asks ahead of time and realizes that they have lives too. In the past when I have asked for help from him for things with the kids his standard answer is " That is why I pay child support". So while it may seems petty to some, when he pays less than 11% of his salary for his children and refuses to help in any other way I DO get upset. For example: he had the boys for the week before school started this fall, I sent the school supply list so they could get their things together, he emails me and states " If you are goign to send the money to get these supplies I'll get them, but I'm not paying for them"

[confusedmama]

I have tried that route, even when I give him what he wants it isn't enough. I too hate to see ex's fight. I'm done with our relationship and want nothing more than my kids to have happy productive lives. I'm tired of fighting and was hoping his marriage would make him realize what he is doing to his children, unfortunately that is not what happened. My oldest is the one who came home and told me of the appeal and said his dad was trying to make him feel guilty for not wanting to spend extra time up there ( the oldest is 16 years old)

[Atticus90]

That school supply thing sorta rubbed me the wrong way. Can't believe he was an *** about it. Punishing the kids over a feud with you. I'd take him to court to appeal the 400$. I'm sure it can be done. Can't pay what you don't have, I always say lol.

[confusedmama]

That is the biggest problem: court seems to think you can get blood out of a turnip

[avman]

A GAL fee of $400 is literally nothing. I don't mean to say it isn't hard for many people to pay, but I'm just saying those fees can add up to thousands of dollars in a hurry. If you try to do your own appeal on this you will only have 30 days or so to file it (there are strict time limits), you will need to pay a filing fee which can be hundreds of dollars, you will need to write a brief, and you will need to pay for a transcript to be created of the original court proceeding. Sometimes you can get these fees waived, but many times you can't. So that's why I say it's just not worth it to appeal this.

 

And to prevail in an appeal you have to show that the judge made an error. That they misapplied the law, failed to follow the rules and procedures, gave incorrect instructions, or some other reversable error. Just not liking the decision which is at the discretion of the judge will not succeed in an appeal.

 

If he files these kinds of things in the future then you should write in your answer to the court (or tell your attorney if you hire one) to have the court award you court costs, GAL fees, filing fees, etc due to frivilous actions by your ex spouse.

[confusedmama]

Avman,

We are already scheduled to go BACK to court on an appeal-because he didn't like the ruling of the judge- that is what I'm questioning, can I ask for attorney fee payment for both the GAL and the attorney I'm required to hire to go to circuit court while at the appeal? While I realize that $400 isn't much (I've racked up over $10,000 during this escapade) it still is more than I've got right now and I do feel it is unjust that the J&D judge took into account his new wife's children but not her salary nor the $$ from SSI they receive every month to care for those children.

[avman]

Yes, you can ask. Tell your attorney to request it either in the form of your answer to the appeal or file a separate motion (how that has to be handled depends on the jurisdiction).

[confusedmama]

I guess the first step would be to hire another attorney. Since court is scheduled for Oct. I should probably get on that

[thejigsup]

The court CAN get blood from a turnip. They are very, very, good at it. They will attach your paycheck, order you to get a job if you don't have one, or just have you pay it and they don't care how. Divorce is expensive. I would just separate and never remarry. MUCH cheaper. We have clients that run up bills into the tens of thousands, and we give more of a price break than many attorneys in our area. If it's contentious, it's expensive.

[lavenderdove]

You need to be careful with this and here is why...

 

When judges decide support levels, they look at not only the father's chidren he may need to pay child support for to their ex, but also how many children are in his household that he is helping to support, or how many children he has with other women. So you can get your own child support reduced because he is supporting other children now since he married their mother. For example, when using the formulas to decide how much he should pay YOU, they determine how much it costs to support ALL the children in both your households, then allocate the money among them.

 

So now that he has married a woman with 4 children, you may end up with less if you push this. It doesn't matter what money she is getting elsehwere, it matters that he now has 4 children in HIS household. I know that doesn't seem fair to you, but do some research on child support formulas in your state and how they work. So when the judge made a decision based on the fact that she has 4 children and those children are in his household now, that is perfectly normal based on the law. You're lucky he didn't reduce your child support becuase of that, so i'd just pay the $400 and let it go in the interests of not looking like you're trying to lower those 4 kids standard of living in order to benefit yourself. Judges look down on that, since child support is about all the children involved, not the parents.

 

I do think it is fine to have your lawyer ask to have him pay court costs and legal fees if he is filing frivolous appeals, but i'd let that $400 that was accrued on the original suit go...

[confusedmama]

lavenderdove,

thanks for that information. I guess it does really bother me that the court takes into account he has other children BUT not the other income that is coming into the household. When I called the clerk's office they said I could bring it in and they would discuss it, I guess that is better than nothing.

 

I am just completely frustrated with this man and all his tricks, unfortunately he works in the court system so he has more and better access to it than I do and he pushes that advantage.

 

I've said it over and over, just do what is right for the kids. Why must he always feel the need to control everything we do?? He now has others under his control, can't he leave us alone?

[lavenderdove]

Because he is who he is... some of the worst offenders in terms of this kind of thing are lawyers... they just hate to 'lose' and will fight forever over everything.

 

I have a friend who was married to a lawyer, and she fought with him over their daughter's support levels until the girl was 18 and they couldn't go to court anymore! Her ex husband was angry because she caught him cheating (with her best friend no less) and she threw him out, and he didn't want the marriage to end nor to have to pay alimony and child support, but of course he was the one who should have thought about that before cheating! But he couldn't accept that he got caught and had to pay the price, and he'd rather spend money fighting her for 15 years rather than admit he screwed up and destroyed the marriage.

 

So these things can become about ego and winning more than the money, and you have to really try to put a stop to that... i'd let your own lawyer develop a strategy, but you really need to make it clear to the court that this isn't about fighting over money, but you just want to live your live and take care of your kids and get on with your life and have your husband leave you alone to do so without using the courts to harass you. If you take that tack on the appeal, you will have more success than if you go in there angry saying you don't want to pay $400 and that the court wasn't fair by ignoring her other support money. You need to put the onus where it belongs, on him harassing you via court proceedings, rather than trying to say the court made a wrong decision on the $400... unless your ex lied about the support money his wife's kids received, the court well knows what she gets and made a decision on that within the law.

[confusedmama]

The court didn't ask what money she received, I think that is what has me upset. I don't expect her $ to pay for our children but to use HER children as a reason for me to pay more makes no sense to me. Your friends situation sounds almost identical to mine and I do realize it is all about his ego I just keep hoping the courts will see that. Just unsure if the courts don't or if the lawyers I have had haven't spelled it out clearly enough. Thanks again

[thejigsup]

He sounds like a real piece of work. You have my sympathies. He will end up alienating the children. They are not stupid, kids KNOW.

[confusedmama]

You are right- he has alienated them, depending on how you look at it, they go see him because it is "the right thing to do" not because they want to see him. They know not to ask for things and I hate that for them!

 

Am now fighting a show-cause for the court appeal that got moved, apparently I was supposed to be there even after being told via telephone I didn't have to show up. Found this out yeaterday. SOOOO stressed now! Unsure what I need to do or how I need to go about doing it. Comes back down to the $$ situation and hiring a lawyer. 3 days isn't long enough to get anything accomplished in the legal system!!

[3boys]

Although I've never been through any kind of court proceeding (other than traffic violations), a friend of ours who is an attorney says to ALWAYS show up in court, even if you're told you don't have to.

 

I can't believe they took into account his step-children and made YOU pay the GAL fee when HE initiated the proceedings....I know when my best friend's ex took her back to court to try to get his child support lowered (this was in IL) when he got remarried and they had a child plus his wife had 2 children from a prior marriage, he was shot-down and it was actually INCREASED because he had started a new job where he made more money. The judge told him his "first" children were his "first" priority and his step-children should be THEIR father's "first" priority, not HIS.

 

Can you try Legal Aid? I'm not sure exactly where you're located in VA, but most areas have free/low-cost attorneys if you can no longer afford one...but why would you have to hire a "new" lawyer? It would be better if you used the same one for all of these frivolous cases....

[iJester]

What's the big deal about letting him have the kids overnight?

[confusedmama]

The show cause was for a court date that I didn't receive notification for, the judge said to simply tell her at the new date and she would change it. She was also surprised that we had 2 scheduled appt. with 2 separate courts on the same day.

 

I wold have to have a new lawyer because the one I was using doesn't want this case anymore and I really don't think he understood all the emotional crap that happens behind the scenes anyway. I am going to try and do this by myself as I can't afford another lawyer and the GAL seems to think it will be OK (hoping that means HE will help a little but not holding my breath).

 

Appeal date was postponed AGAIN-because ex had a conflict (amazing how HE gets to change dates when HE has a conflict-must be a perk of working in the court system). I have decided to ask the circuit court judge to re-asses the GAL fee since I truly don't feel I should have to pay ALL of it simply because he added to his household. I guess we will see.

 

ijester: The ex now lives 40 minutes away from me & the boys school. If they were to spend school nights (right now they have Sundays overnight but I'm going to ask that it be changed) they have to get up an hour earlier, he doesn't give the oldest his medication regularly, (although ordered by the court), he wont give them lunch money OR pack their lunches, the middle one has been tardy, and the youngest I get calls about for being at school 20 minutes BEFORE allowed to be dropped off and he is sleepng in class.

 

I simply wish the kids came first