I'm one of those guys...

[Imprecision]

worriedgirl,

 

lol, knowing what you want would NOT make you a mature person. There are so many people who just believe in something and follow some goals (sometimes like you said the traditional goals or goals that seem "good" to other people). Does it mean they are mature? No. It might mean that they just follow what other people have followed or found the best before. Confusion about life doesn't also mean immaturity. Many philosophers, artists and all types of smart people have been confused, simply because they refused to believe in good old traditions and were trying to find themselves and the world around them out, in a new creative way.

 

OP, don't listen to what a 22 year old says, no matter how "mature" he claims he is. Many women would love an affectionate guy and i hope you find one.

 

In my life, I have met a lot of people who were perpetually confused about life. You really shouldn't encourage the OP to be one of them.

 

Amore,

 

So being "more of a man" means you can't like "listening to her, holding hands, little things, big things, etc"? That if you're a real man, those "things girls like" are supposed to annoy you?

 

A giant LOL at that and that's all I have to say, I'm not going to get into a gender roles debate over the interwebs. Not a very mature standpoint, imo.

 

It's not about "supposed to." It's just something I've observed through experience.

 

I have a feeling that the OP does not have a lot of guy friends, though. I believe that this could be the source of his problem.

[LarsWB]

LOL! sorry junior, you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Give yourself about 20 more years, and maybe you'll figure things out. BOTH of your assumptions are incorrect, which tells me a lot about your 'experience'.

 

 

Good luck to ya

[Imprecision]

LOL! sorry junior, you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Give yourself about 20 more years, and maybe you'll figure things out. BOTH of your assumptions are incorrect, which tells me a lot about your 'experience'.

 

 

Good luck to ya

 

Well, basically what I saw on this thread is - You posting something which most normal guys would not. A few women "adore" you for it. You somehow feel validated.

 

My guess is that you probably don't have any guy friend. Or if you do, not the right variety. It is quite typical that a guy who has no guy friend would seek validation from women.

 

Not quite sure how old you are. But if you're anything above twenty-six, you have a lot of catching up to do.

[AndiD]

Lol. Dude, your sexism has now progressed from mildly amusing to comedy of the absurd.

 

Lars, the 22 year old has spoken. If you continue on your current path of thinking, you face the risk of being adored by women. You've been warned.

[Imprecision]

AndiD

 

Lol. Dude, your sexism has now progressed from mildly amusing to comedy of the absurd.

 

Lars, the 22 year old has spoken. If you continue on your current path of thinking, you face the risk of being adored by women. You've been warned.

 

I'm sure there are some women whom most women don't like, but who seem popular with men. In the same way, there are some men whom most men would look down on, yet some women would validate them.

 

Personally, I don't think much of the OP's behaviour.

 

In terms of maturity - What is really mature is to progress beyond the stage where you need other people's approval. I feel I have reached that state. Unfortunately, many men have not.

[LarsWB]

Lol. Dude, your sexism has now progressed from mildly amusing to comedy of the absurd.

 

Lars, the 22 year old has spoken. If you continue on your current path of thinking, you face the risk of being adored by women. You've been warned.

 

AndiD what a terrible path it will be!

[Imprecision]

Furthermore, the fact that the OP is so sensitive to my observations just proves my point. I say he should post his age - It would be interesting.

[LarsWB]

Furthermore, the fact that the OP is so sensitive to my observations just proves my point. I say he should post his age - It would be interesting.

 

Keep posting, please! It's awesome!

[Sparkly Eyes]

AndiD

 

 

 

I'm sure there are some women whom most women don't like, but who seem popular with men. In the same way, there are some men whom most men would look down on, yet some women would validate them.

 

Personally, I don't think much of the OP's behaviour.

 

In terms of maturity - What is really mature is to progress beyond the stage where you need other people's approval. I feel I have reached that state. Unfortunately, many men have not.

 

Just because you say something that is not approved by women, doesn't mean you are right. OP didn't say anything to belittle your gender or himself, he just talked about his own feelings and it just happens that many women like that type of guy. I really don't understand why that would bother you. It's funny, there was a goodlooking guy in my university, who like OP, would openly talk about love/poems and his feelings. Girls loved him and went after him, and guys were extremely jealous of this fact. They thought he was just doing those things to attract women and get their approval. Who cares tho? at least he dared to do it instead of hiding himself behind the "masculine jerk" mask. After a year or two, guys started to come around and make friends with him and they started to really like him as well.

 

I think that you rather have a shallow view of things. You have some beliefs deeply ingrained in your brain and subsequently refuse to believe that you might be wrong, that this world might be way more complicated than you think. That's not what I call "progress" or "maturity".

[AndiD]

I'm sure there are some women whom most women don't like, but who seem popular with men. In the same way, there are some men whom most men would look down on, yet some women would validate them.

 

And I sure wouldn't attempt to pin who is or is not a woman like that based on a message board. The concept is absurd.

 

In terms of maturity - What is really mature is to progress beyond the stage where you need other people's approval.

 

No, that's not maturity, that's self-confidence. There's plenty of immature self-confident people in the world. And frankly, self-confidence can sometimes manifest as arrogance, which then actively blocks the process of growing and maturing.

[Imprecision]

Just because you say something that is not approved by women, doesn't mean you are right. OP didn't say anything to belittle your gender or himself, he just talked about his own feelings and it just happens that many women like that type of guy. I really don't understand why that would bother you. It's funny, there was a goodlooking guy in my university, who like OP, would openly talk about love/poems and his feelings. Girls loved him and went after him, and guys were extremely jealous of this fact. They thought he was just doing those things to attract women and get their approval. Who cares tho? at least he dared to do it instead of hiding himself behind the "masculine jerk" mask. After a year or two, guys started to come around and make friends with him and they started to really like him as well.

 

Well, many women do approve of some or all of my views. However, things should be judged as either right or wrong rather than who approves or disapproves of it.

 

I'm just speaking from experience here - I think most guys would have the same reaction I have toward the OP's style.

 

I think that you rather have a shallow view of things. You have some beliefs deeply ingrained in your brain and subsequently refuse to believe that you might be wrong, that this world might be way more complicated than you think. That's not what I call "progress" or "maturity".

 

I don't think progressivism means having a deep view of things. I don't think conservatism means having a shallow view of things. Some people come to progressivism after many years in the conservative camp. Some people come to conservatism after many years in the progressivist camp. I'm quite confident I've lived through more and reflected more than many people my age or even older.

[Imprecision]

And I sure wouldn't attempt to pin who is or is not a woman like that based on a message board. The concept is absurd.

 

Oftentimes, the written word is more revealing than a personal appearance.

 

No, that's not maturity, that's self-confidence. There's plenty of immature self-confident people in the world. And frankly, self-confidence can sometimes manifest as arrogance, which then actively blocks the process of growing and maturing.

 

You may have a point as to the distinction between self-confidence and maturity. However, it is difficult to achieve a definition of maturity which is acceptable to everyone. I would prefer a self-confident guy to a "mature" guy who is constantly seeking people's approval, however.

[Scorpion Fury]

...who wants love. I want to give my love, and I want to receive love.

 

I'm addicted to affection, touching, kissing, holding hands, hugging, love notes, haikus, flowers, staring into each other's eyes, feeling her heartbeat....little thing, big things, listening to her....real, unconditional love.

 

I wonder if I'll ever find it again?

 

I think you'll find it if you don't look for it. If you keep busy making yourself happy on your own, you'll be more selective of who you allow to be a part of your life, and therefore more likely to choose wisely when choosing your next girlfriend. I think that when people actively look for a relationship, they are more likely to overlook things that may indicate a man or woman might not be a good match for them, or things that can cause a major problem in a relationship. Just my observations.

[LarsWB]

It's a SEXY PARTY!

[Resolute]

Imprecision, maturity is not definable, measurable, or validated by progress in life or what you want in life. For example, you may want to grow up to be a professional wrestler. You may think you are mature because you have these life plans and they will be successful. The truth is, you're still immature because ever since you were little you have been throwing temper tantrums and decide a good path in life would be to position-shift your anger and make it useful. You can spout all the ideologies you want of maturity, but don't expect the respect you feel towards yourself to be reciprocated.

Your own definition of maturity can be used against you. You believe maturity is when you don't care how people see you. Aside from this being more adequately defined as stupidity, ignorance or stubbornness; your arguments do not support it. By your own definition, if you don't care how people see you, then to be mature you must not care how you see people. Imprecision, you make it very apparent that you both care and are against the views of others, and readily argue your opinion. While it is respectable both in pseudo-factual information and in argumentative skill, it is flawed. A lot of your observations are biased on personal opinion.

In life, there are 5 sets of needs we must have met. In direct order, Physical needs (food, water, etc.), security needs (order, safety, bed, etc.), social needs (Love, affection, to belong), Esteem needs (Self-respect AND esteem from others) and then finally, Self-actualizing needs (Fulfillment of individual abilities).

According to your hypothesis, a successful and mature human must stop life progress at esteem needs because you need support from others. It makes you who you are. If you did not have it as a child you would not have become what you are through any number of circumstances. You needed it then, and you need it now for more then just maturity. You need it for self-reflection and to make yourself a better person. No one person's personality or attitude remains static over time.With this in mind, your self-actualizing needs are never met. You never get what you want from life.

You argue a self-gratifying and self-preservative topic that is both vague and particularly perspective based. Maturity is a variable in all lives that influences different situations in different ways. I bet you see maturity as a straight-laced, successful, and well-liked. I also bet most of the time, in the company of people you do not know, you are solemn and not very spontaneous.

You are mature because you want people to like you, it is a choice much like the OP had made but expressed in a different way. Basically, you are committing the sin you condemn therefore making your argument a double-standard. Of course, my argument is flawed as well. It is biased and based solely on my own personal opinion and against yours. I could just as well support your ideas and provide a rebuttal, but I am human, I am flawed!

I consider myself mature. I see life in the light of a collectivist society more-so than an individualistic society. It goes without saying then, that I would see maturity as the success of relationships with people and not with the world. My maturity is defined by how much I realistically love. I would never argue over the validity or quality of my maturity because of how self-serving it is though. If you don't care about how people see you, then why support your character? Turn the other cheek my friend, shrug it off.

[Resolute]

Moderators aren't the only ones who can kill threads, booyah!

[lionface]

Hmm, you know what, so brave of you to admit that. I think it's great when men are able to be as open as you. And women appreciate that, as well.

However, is being addicted the right word to use? I mean, the term itself indicates something is wrong...

 

You should work on yourself, be condifent in your own abilities, realize what YOU have to offer that's great and why any woman would be lucky ot have you. After all, that's what the most attractive quality is; confidence. And women can smell desperation a mile a way. Some of them may use it against you to manipulate you or control your actions. This is a baaaad road to go down.

[AmericanHuney]

Does anyone else feel a sense of Narcassism from Imprecision?

 

Isn't funny how when people like to point out how together they are and know everything, they usually are the most insecure in the group?....just saying.

[LarsWB]

This thread cracks me up now. When I opened it initially, I was in a world of hurt....man, like FRESH into it and hurting so bad I wanted to die. Is a short period of time with more work than I ever thought humanly possible, I've moved on tenfold. Healed and shored my mind and soul up stronger than I ever thought I could. Christ...I've had women try to talk me into moving to the beach with them, 13 yr younger female trying to get me to her house...like all the time, and met a huge array of women...most of them physically attractive, some of them beautiful inside. Ya know what? I'm numb. Caring, as in a friend way...but 'love' is the furthest thing from my mind right now. I don't even recognize my initial thread as being written by me, but I DO remember exactly how I felt that day. I don't EVER want to hurt that bad again...and I won't as long as my mind stays as strong as it is now.

BOOOOOOOOOOYAH it can be done!