Why is the Friendzone the Deathzone?

[Mauxly]

So I’ve been on here long enough to gather that the friendzone makes men quiver in their shoes. And I don’t really get it. Personally my best relationships have started out as friends. The ones where we had that instant mutual physical spark were the ones that wound up going down in flames because we didn’t have a solid friendship foundation. That isn’t to say that every male friend I have is going to turn into a romantic interest, but it can happen, I just need a little time to figure them/us out before I get physical.

 

It seems that people want to rush into things with people they don’t really know. And by the time we get to know them our hearts/egos/neither regions are on the line so we wind up clinging to unhealthy relationships. But heaven forbid we be friends right?

 

I guess another thing that bothers me are the men who want to date me/sleep with me, but get irritated if I want to be friends. Wait a minute, I’m good enough to bed down, but not good enough to be friends if I don’t bed you down? Can you see how that would make us feel a little objectified?

And yeah, I’ve been friendzoned by a few men that I adored. Was I disappointed? Of course! Did I resent them or think something was wrong with them…OK…yeah…for like a minute I thought, “Oh he must be gay” and then I got over myself. I’m now wonderful friends with these obviously straight men who just weren’t into me like that.

 

The anti-friendzone brigade makes me kind of sad. Maybe I’m simply out of touch? Maybe I don’t get it?

 

I can tell you that there is a lot about dating that I do not understand/abide by.

[Sanesoul]

I hear ya. My husband and I were the best of friends before we started dating. Hell, almost every guy I dated before him was like that too. I am now friends with most of them to this day.

 

I don't understand the "friend-zone" concept either.

[top bloke]

I dont believe that if you are romantically interested in someone that you can be just friends. On the other hand..if you respect someone and are attracted then definitely its a good idea to get to know each other without all the pressure of sex having to be the guide of the relationship.

Focus on knowing the person so that you can have a better relationship...physical intimacy will come.

[Mauxly]

I dont believe that if you are romantically interested in someone that you can be just friends.

 

 

I disagree. You can be romantically interested in someone, get rejected, get over yourself, and then just be friends. I've done it. I have male friends who've had to do it with me. But it can be done and for that I'm extremely grateful because these are some of my better friends. Can't imagine life without them.

[top bloke]

I disagree. You can be romantically interested in someone, get rejected, get over yourself, and then just be friends. I've done it. I have male friends who've had to do it with me. But it can be done and for that I'm extremely grateful because these are some of my better friends. Can't imagine life without them.

In that situation yes I agree but not in the context I mentioned above. I should have added ..before the fact of what you have written above. If you are intersted romantically in someone as you get to know them then technically you are not friends.If you reject them and they stay as friends then that is different to what I was trying to illustrate.

Its just that people call others friends when there is romatic interest pre dumping so to speak.

[benb]

The reason most guys fear the friend zone is that there is usually no escape from it. I'm generalizing here, but guys are usually quite simple in this respect: if you are physically attractive to them and are nice to them, they're usually going to like you in a sexual, romantic way. Guys have a reputation for being tough and all but, trust me, we're usually much bigger softies than we let on.

 

Especially for a lot of guys who are shy, geeky, not the "alpha male", and so on, the friend zone is really the kiss of death. It means "yet again, I'm not going to get laid and I'm certainly not going to get a girlfriend." A guy that has a fear of being friends with women usually gets that way because one woman after another has rejected his romantic advances. It just starts to hurt after a while, and then you get this sort of misogynistic view toward women because you start putting up a wall to protect yourself.

 

I think the (very cynical and hostile) site link removed perfectly explains what men think about this. In short: women may claim that they can eventually fall in love with a friend, but most men have never personally experienced this, nor even seen it second hand. I try hard not to buy into this crap, but I have to be honest that it does ring true to me.

 

If I were a woman, one thing I would do when I just want to be friends with a man is be clear up front about any future possibilities or lack thereof. If you think that you MIGHT want to be with this guy given enough time, you can always say "I'm not really ready for a relationship right now. Would it be ok to be friends?" If you're really not interested in him romantically and probably never will be, it's probably best to just be up front and tell him you're just not interested in dating him. Let him decide whether to be friends or not.

[Seymore]

This is going to sound awfully jaded, but this is something I have quite a bit to say about.

 

By my experience, I've been terrified of the friendzone. Like ben said, I have never escaped it, just stayed in this platonic purgatory. I really would like some reassurance that it isn't that bad and there's hope a relationship can come from it, because FAR more often than not, I've taken an interest in a girl only to be friendzoned with no real reason other than "you're not my type" without a fair shot to even back that claim up. And yet I get to sit around and be every girl's "buddy". I get to hear about all their problems, be the shoulder to cry on, etc.

 

You say: "Wait a minute, I’m good enough to bed down, but not good enough to be friends if I don’t bed you down? Can you see how that would make us feel a little objectified?"

 

I say: "Wait a minute, I'm good enough to have to listen to every problem you have, to comfort you and do things for you, but I'm not good enough to date?"

 

This girl I ranted about in this same board - shot me down without a second thought and doesn't know squat about me, yet didn't even have to think to ask me to pick up her dinner for her.

 

And then when it doesn't work out with their guy du jour, who do they come to? That's right, the pal. Good ol' dependable pal. Because I make her feel good. Because I make her feel appreciated. But I'm not good enough to date. And when she can't find a guy, she tells ME "I can't find a decent guy!"

 

I'm a DAMN good friend, but I can't stand it when I don't get a fair shot. And all the while I'm supposed to sit on the side while a girl I'm attracted to uses me to "enhance her life", for lack of a better phrase. I'm tired of being good for only stroking a girl's ego and doing things for her. I want my fair chance, damn it, and it's not even about "bedding her down" immediately - because I'm not that kind of guy. I want a date, someone who's going to give me a shot, LISTEN to me and not be so engrossed in herself and get to know me. I mean get to KNOW me. But obviously, I'm nobody's type to date, just everyone's perfect "pal".

[newwave]

Almost every relationship I know started out in the "friendzone". My brother and sister in law were "best friends" for years. What people forget (and why we have too many divorces) is the most important part of a relationship is friendship. Sure you can be attracted to someone, want to sleep with someone, but if you don't LIKE that person it doesn't have a future. Once the initial part of the attraction fades comes real life. You and the partner will often change roles in life and not every time will you want to just have sex. You will enjoy chatting about work that day or something else important.

[JusticeLaw9]

The friendzone is the deathzone because nobody likes to be rejected at any time. I remember recently telling a woman that I wasn't interested after a couple of dates and she sounded like she was going to burst into tears. Some people really take rejection hard; it just doesn't sit well in their system that someone has turned them down. Then you have the ones who beat themselves over the head with the thought of "not being good enough." For some, it can be a very inadequate feeling to try to overcome.

[Mauxly]

I say: "Wait a minute, I'm good enough to have to listen to every problem you have, to comfort you and do things for you, but I'm not good enough to date?"

 

Ahhh OK, I can see your point. That must be horrible.

So, all I can do is speak from experience on this one. I had a really good friend in high school. I knew he had kind of a crush on me but I just didn't like him that way. He bit the bullet and we stayed friends. When I turned 18, something happened, I magically started seeing him as sexy, not just as a friend. We were together for 8 years. To this day, the best relationship I've ever had.

The guy I actually dated in high school (while this guy was pining after me?) another person that I originally thought of just as a friend. We hung out constantly, I eventually fell for him.

 

Enter J. In my 20's I hung out with a really strong group of bad arse women. Beautiful artists, musicians, highly intelligent women. I count myself lucky to still have these friends. J was the guy that just kind of hung around, was our best friend, but never stood a chance with us. He wasn't exciting enough, not cool enough, but we loved him as a brother. Yeah, he used to complain up a storm that he was constantly friendzoned. But he hung out. I got to see J again for the first time in almost 20 years the other day. He's matured into a super hansom guy and is engaged to an amazing woman. We talked at length about how he felt hanging out with so many women and not getting any action. He said he resented the hell out of it at the time, but that it helped him grow into the sensitive/kick arse guy that he is now. The kind of guy that knows how to have real relationships with women. So now he's grateful.

 

My last boyfriend...I wasn't physically attracted to him when we met. He pursued me. I just wanted to be friends. He won me over, I fell totally in love with him. And...the little bastard broke my heart..but whatever.

[solsticefall]

I'm sure it's a swift kick to the ego when your crush - who told you she just wants to be friends - starts dating, and then screwing, a total * * * * * * * . Bonus points if she gets pregnant in the process.

 

Who wants that???

[LizzieD]

I friendzoned my own male best friend because I couldn't picture him naked. Or rather, I don't want to see him naked. He's just not my type. We're still hanging out, having a laugh but that's just it.. he's just a friend. Yes, people do ask me if I were dating him, I said no, he's just a friend

 

It's 1/3 chance with women (yes, no, maybe). If you're in a maybe category, you'll be friendzoned by 3rd date or 'hanging-out'.

 

Women choose what women want. And one's trash is someone else's treasure. Everybody wins at the end of the day.

[TouchNastY]

"Friend" is a one-way label.

[The woman calling the man "friend" and "lover" doesn't mean the woman is the man's "friend" and "lover."]

 

For those relationships in which women said that the man was their friend and lover: they likely were...from the woman's perspective. For women, there is much (emotional) overlap in being a platonic friend and a romantic partner - he's her "rock," among other things. So it's very easy for the woman to classify the man as a friend in addition to a partner, and for her to think erroneously that they were friends beforehand, which "blossomed" into love.

 

To the man, friendships and relationships are diametrically opposed: one path goes to the left, the other the right. Traverse too far down one, and it's all the more to travel to the other; venture even further, and it's the point of no return. This may be hard to understand unless visualized; friendships and relationships are ostensibly similar, with the latter adding a sexual aspect. This, along with the "friends and lovers" woman's perspective have done an excellent job in confounding men to believe that relationships are the linear upgrade to friendships. They're not. They're exact opposites, and when men get rejected for relationships, they'll move on in favor of hiding under the guise of "friends."

 

I'd go as far to say that men can't ever be "friends" with their romantic interests. For women, the man is to be the rock (part of which plays into the man being the woman's "friend") - if the rock falters, caves, displays emotional weakness, something clicks within the woman's limbic system. It's often articulated as "I don't know what happened, but all of a sudden..." posts on here, but it does happen, and it's because this stolid impasse that was to be the man's persona has suddenly shown its vulnerable side.

 

 

 

With regard to your latest post:

 

Your high school crusher, with whom you remained "friends," did not classify you as a friend. You cut him off and called him "friend," - he stuck around as an orbiter hoping for you to give in. So it's not that you "remained friends" - that doesn't at all tell the whole story.

 

The comment about J seems a bit twisted and patronizing. Your cohort friendzoned him, while he remained actively interested (again, because you see him as "friend" doesn't mean he sees you likewise). Now that he's met with success, you attribute it to your having rejected him? Uh....

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Almost every relationship I know started out in the "friendzone". My brother and sister in law were "best friends" for years. What people forget (and why we have too many divorces) is the most important part of a relationship is friendship. Sure you can be attracted to someone, want to sleep with someone, but if you don't LIKE that person it doesn't have a future. Once the initial part of the attraction fades comes real life. You and the partner will often change roles in life and not every time will you want to just have sex. You will enjoy chatting about work that day or something else important.

 

I totally agree. Most people want to have intense makeout sessions and sex immediately and that is how they base their interest...so they get into a lust relationship and then a few months later once the lust cools they realize they don't really like each other or don't really fit in with each other. All this stuff at the beginning "talking for hours" and "wow we really connect" which leads to "this person is my soulmate let's have sex" is just the fog of excitement and not grounded in reality. When you start off as friends you get a better sense of what makes that person tick before you get lost in the lust. Plenty of people start off as friends which blossoms into love.

[Mauxly]

The comment about J seems a bit twisted and patronizing. Your cohort friendzoned him, while he remained actively interested (again, because you see him as "friend" doesn't mean he sees you likewise). Now that he's met with success, you attribute it to your having rejected him? Uh....

 

 

Not at all. HE is the one that attributed his later success with women because he had so much access to women early in life. After hanging out with us for so long he 'got us'. We were no longer the powerful mystery that we were prior to that.

So you are saying that my male friends, each and every one of them are simply orbiting hoping that I’ll crack and they will eventually get laid? Do all men think this way?

 

Ugh…I’ve been trying REALLY hard not to resent the entire gender after what I just went through. But this kind of dialogue makes it tough to tell you the truth.

[Maverick44]

There are some sensitive types that will stay around to be 'just friends'. Most of us men are not there.

 

Ask yourself this questions - if you offered one of your 'friends' sex, would he refuse? I'd bet a mortgage payment (and some) that he wouldn't and I don't like to gamble. That is, unless he has a religious or moral view about it (i.e. married women)

 

Look, you can be upset about and dismiss the gender as solely after sex...it's not that as much but if we're interested in a woman and her friend, it's rare, but achievable, that we're hanging around just to get to know you in-depth.

 

Also, remember, we CAN do the sex without the relationship. So, if a girl who we are friends with says "I want to have sex but a relationship too with you...", that might me enough to get the guy to back off. Sorry, yes, we'd see you as good enough for sex but doesn't mean we see the relationship (investment of emotions) as something that is appealing.

 

This is my $.02. I have lots of women friends. Do I want relationships with all of them? No. Would I have sex with most of them if there were no relationship repercussions? Yes.

 

We're just wired differently that way I think.

 

Maverick

[TouchNastY]

It's not my intent to be overly-negative or disrespectful, really. It's difficult finding the best way to broach, then present the subject.

 

While I wasn't there with your friends and J to hear the actual exchange, I took it literally. Meaning, he was doing all the wrong things and chasing after women who weren't interested (you ladies!) until he finally ameliorated his ways. He's thanking you for "teaching" him what not to do, which, when I read it, sounded sarcastic/facetious in nature.

 

I will honestly say that most of your male friends (remember, those whom YOU call friends - you're a prospect to them) are hoping you'll see the light and how "they really are." What would happen, ideally, is that, upon learning disinterest from the woman, the man goes on his merry way finding more women. I noted that you looked negatively upon those who disappeared after having been rejected. Ironically, I would say that they are further ahead from those whom languish in the "friend" category, hoping for more.

 

No, of course all men are not this way! But I'd reckon a vast majority are.

[Mauxly]

So I guess if the general consensus amongst men is that it sucks to be friendzoned, and men can’t be friends with women what am I to do? Unfriend all male friends? And, wait a minute. What about those male friends that are in relationships? Are you saying that my happily married guy friends just want to tap this too? I’m not buying it.

 

And what about those guys that I’m not initially attracted to but there is the possibility that they grow on me. Just drop them because they may or may not be relegated to friendzone indefinitely? If this is the case I’m screwed because I very very rarely am immediately attracted to anyone, and even then it’s usually over the minute they open their mouths.

[Maverick44]

Men can be friends with women we don't find attractive. So, hey, the more often a 'friend' has crossed the line, kudos to you - you're attractive.

 

As for yoru married friends - like I said, if there is a moral or religious thing stopping them, then no. Otherwise, if there isn't, and they are attracted to you, they would want to 'tap that' too. In general, each may want to tap but other outside factors stop them.

 

IMO, if a guy is attracted to you, he should pursue you. In the event at that time that you say, you are "Not Interested" for whatever reason, he should move on. The likelihood you will change your mind is just unlikely. If you choose to change your mind, you can always give him a call up but he shouldn't be hanging around with you in the hopes that you would.

 

Maverick

[TouchNastY]

The men in relationships have weighed the pros against the cons and have the discipline to adhere to that decision. Though, just because they won't doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to - it's that the discipline is short-circuiting the nature.

 

You can modify your approach while still sticking to your guns. If you're lukewarm about someone, I'd say go for it anyway, entertain whatever happens, and get a definitive answer on your interest (for both your and their sakes). Just refrain from actually articulating the "I want to be friends" mentality, because men are conditioned to bow out upon hearing this (which makes sense: they figure the woman isn't open to their romantic interest, so time to find another).

[generaldiscord]

Most people keep an internal tally of favors and obligations with their friends. I might say "I called Mike the last two times, it's his turn now". or "Sally writes me a birthday card every year, I have to go to the post office." These aren't actual contracts. If Mike doesn't call, I won't yell at him or never call him again. If I don't send Sally a birthday card, chances are she'll still send one to me.

 

Gerard, however, is the modern 'beta' male. He has been taught that he deserves to be serviced at least a month, otherwise it is the fault of women in general. His internal tally is massively skewed. Gerard thinks "I drove Sally to the airport, I deserve a sexual favor by the end of the month." What he doesn't know is, Sally has other friends. She could have asked Jane or Edward or Meredith. Sally in her internal tally is saving up a favor for when he asks for it. Of course, Gerard never will, because he doesn't know how to tell her that she is late on her payment of 18 bjs.

 

Eventually, Sally will feel bad, because her internal tally is way off base. She will stop asking for favors. Gerard will notice what he interprets as 'coldness', get bitter, and accuse her of using him before loosing him. Sally will deduce that he has become slightly unhinged. Gerard will become angrier and angrier, and eventually sleep with someone he finds hideous so that he can dump her to neutralize the bitter bile which consumes him. Sally will try to be nice. Gerard will accuse her of being a huge expletive, and will never speak to her again. Sally will scratch her luscious blond hair in confusion, and go back to tuning her lute strings.

 

Gerard, when reading this, nods his head and says, "yes, that's the problem. I came on too strong. If I had been chiller, she would have responded differently." He is wrong. His problem is, he has spent his energy trying to win her over with favors instead of enjoying friendship for friendship's sake. He was focusing on her sexual potential instead of her potential as a partner.

 

The truth is, all friendship is based on attraction, but it may not be sexual. Also, as much as we look at rating systems, people of a similar age, relatively good health, similar social standing, and mutually enjoyable friendship will ALWAYS eventually be attracted to each other romantically. It MUST be a mutual friendship though. It has to be enjoyable for BOTH. Then the relationship can last a lifetime.

 

(Thirty years later, Gerard dies alone, I'm afraid. Inexplicably, he blames this on all female dogs.)

[Seymore]

So I guess if the general consensus amongst men is that it sucks to be friendzoned, and men can’t be friends with women what am I to do? Unfriend all male friends? And, wait a minute. What about those male friends that are in relationships? Are you saying that my happily married guy friends just want to tap this too? I’m not buying it.

 

 

Guys and girls can be friends without desiring sex. I have had female friends whom were like sisters to me, and while there were one or two I had been physically attracted to, even they were turn-offs in the personality department and just not my type.

 

What you need to do is look for the signs that the guy is interested in you on a more than friends basis from the start. If he is, you're not going to change his mind, so simply stop hanging around him or you'll be leading him on.

 

I remember one of my female friends had said to me, literally, early on: "This is nice, hanging out as pals". She was making sure I wasn't in this for anything more, and I wasn't.

[FathomFear]

I guess another thing that bothers me are the men who want to date me/sleep with me, but get irritated if I want to be friends. Wait a minute, I’m good enough to bed down, but not good enough to be friends if I don’t bed you down? Can you see how that would make us feel a little objectified?

 

I agree with everything you said. I think the biggest factor is that there isn't an established culture of friendship between straight men and women. Typically speaking, straight guys prefer other straight guys when it comes to pure friendships--and vice versa. Hanging out with someone who 1) usually has less in common with you, and 2) causes sexual frustration at the same time, is just a bad and undesirable combination.

 

Ultimately, I think the "friendzone" becomes dreaded because it just exposes a larger issue, that many straight couples have very little in common outside of their attraction for each other. If the attraction is denied or turned down, there isn't much left to base anything on--even a friendship.

[MikNomis]

There's always going to be the few people that have success stories from friends first. The reality, however, is that most people (guys in my knowledge) get OWNED by the friendzone. That's why we generally advise to avoid it, because it's most likely that they'll just get hurt by always wanting more, while the girl is enjoying life with free attention from him on top of whoever she's dating.

[Seymore]

There's always going to be the few people that have success stories from friends first. The reality, however, is that most people (guys in my knowledge) get OWNED by the friendzone. That's why we generally advise to avoid it, because it's most likely that they'll just get hurt by always wanting more, while the girl is enjoying life with free attention from him on top of whoever she's dating.

 

Or as the saying goes...why buy the cow when you get the milk for free - the milk being attention, in the friendzoned's case.