Insight requested - 5 yrs then done in a flash! Can it be?

[Fletch F. Fletch]

I have read many posts here and been impressed by the quality of comments and insight. If you all would lend me your insight (in particular the women), I would be greatly appreciative.

 

My girlfriend of over 5 years broke up with me a month ago (end of April). The reason that she gave was that she does not "feel romantic" towards me anymore. This loss of romatic feeling, I think resulted from our last 6 months together when the stress of our busy work schedules finally took its toll. (Before I go too far, I will say that our first 4 years were very good and we could really be our true selves around one another – I would characterize us soulmates). The last 3 years we lead very busy schedules - she was in graduate school part-time while working full-time, and I worked long hours as well. Very often she studied late on the weekdays and on the weekends. During the last 6 months, I ended-up picking on her for attention – ordinarily she liked the playful teasing, but it became excessive during this period when I was stress-out. The teasing had a negative tone. She did not say anything about how it bothered her until she finally blew up at me during our "break-up" talk.

 

For a little more background, the break-up proceeded in 4 discussions over a 3 week period in April:

 

1) Discussion #1 was about how I teased her and how she wanted me to stop picking on her. (This was not the blow-up speech). I agreed.

 

2) Discussion #2 was about how she felt so sad and empty and she could not break the feeling. During this period I sensed that she was starting to distance herself from me. She also asked why we had never talked about marriage. I said that I had recently looked at rings and planned to get engaged, but I wanted this to be a surprise (this was the truth). The answer was met with ambivalence - she would have accepted 3 months ago, but she does not know now. I had not talked about marriage because she is 5 years younger than I am (she was now 27), and I did not want to pressure her.

 

3) Discussion #3 was about the doubts she had with our relationship…how I treated her like one of the guys and that religion was not as important to me as it was to her. She did not want to change me. I told her the treatment was fixable, as she had not voiced concern before. I knew religion was important to her, but she had not been to church regularly. I offered to go with her and share in what was important to her. We went the next morning. Too little too late. She probably did not think my effort was genuine, even though it was.

 

4) Discussion #4 was the "blow-up" speech when she blew up at me again for treating her so poorly recently. In her tirade she brought-up a brief isolated incident from 3 years ago. There were not new incidents since Discussion #1, just unresolved/suppressed anger from the last 6 months. This was a fury that I had never seen out of her. She said that she felt this way for the last 6 months, and only through talking this through with one of her friends had the anger risen to the surface. She said that this it her fault for suppressing her anger (she admitted to avoiding confrontation) and not communicating well, but it doesn't change the fact that I treated her like crap recently. She said that she doesn't think we have a mature relationship and has lost that romantic feeling for me. She said that we should break-up.

 

A few days later, she collected her shack-pack goodies/clothes from my place, and we said our good byes – the mood was somber of course, she talked about work, but she did very little talking about us– no "thank you for the good times", no "sorry for how this worked out", I don't even think she said "good-bye" (though I did). I held her for about 15 minutes as she cried. I inquired if she was certain about her decision. Her response was "Don't pressure me." I stopped there. I left her with a letter accepting responsibililty for my actions/words, explaining how this was just rough patch in our relationship, and welcoming a chance to fix things. Through all of the discussions above, I maintained a positive and conciliatory attitude with her expressing my confidence that we had a strong underlying relationship could survive. I did not argue or escalate matters with her. For the most part I listened. How can 4 years of good be outweighed by 6 months of bad? My efforts failed.

 

For one month, we did not talk - we had one brief e-mail exchange during this period which she initiated. I tried to stay strong having read many posts on this site. I thought about her constantly, until I weakened and had to call her. I think I caught her by surprise, we had a very brief and light conversation and I asked to lunch the next day. She agreed. The next day, she backed-out of the lunch plans saying that she is "not ready to be friends," and still needs "her space." I accepted this without push-back. We talked for about an hour - 30 minutes were spent catching up on us and our friends – conversation was light with some laughs. Then, I erred. I told her how much I missed her. She started to cry. I told her that I had hope that we could still work things out. She responded that she does not see us getting back together as she does not "feel romantic for me". She said that she does not miss me, though sometimes she wished she could ask me questions about work (were in the same profession). That's it – again no "thanks for the good memories." – I suppose she is just focused on the bad ones.

 

So here I am. Faced with accepting this fate as final – feeling frustrated that the issues she had were very solvable – if we tried together. Feeling like I was served notice with the problems, but not given a chance to respond. She always talked a good game about doing the hard work that a good relationship requires (to me this is right now), but in the end she folds the tent and calls it quit… after 5 years. I stood patiently by as she went to grad school for 2.5 years and just recently graduated, but she does not have the patience for me to get myself out of my rut.

 

Questions for the forum:

 

• Can she really not miss me? Five years and she doesn't miss the good times, only judges me by the last 6 months?

• If she is still angry, which maybe she is, how long will this anger take to pass? Will she miss me then?

• Does anybody think I should hold out hope. Or should I just move on?

• What is going on in her head? Conjecture welcomed.

• Is this "romantic feeling" excuse just a cover, so that she does not have to lay out all the reasons and have me say that I change?

 

I'm so confused. Thnaks in advance for your help.

[fmfisdead]

This is a sad story, and Im sorry your having to go through all of this. You really seem like you genuinely cared, and really wanted it to work out. While reading the story, I kept thinking of the fact that she is 4-5 years younger than you. It seems this could be the biggest factor, to me. Although I am definitely no expert, nor claim to be.

The whole not romantic anymore and all of that stuff seems a little fishy to me. I don't want to put any thoughts in your head, but I also want you to look at every possible outcome or reason. Your right, how could she be mad about the last 6 months? While this kind of seems like a long time, she should have said something, she should have communicated, of course now you know your in the wrong, but sometimes you don't notice these things.

It has only been a month, I think she can get over her anger. And she can say she doesn't miss you all she wants, but she is still contacting you sometimes, So i know she does.

I would say, hold out some hope, and maybe hope for it to happen, but don't expect anything. Try moving on, and really accept the fact that shes gone. And don't pressure her at all like she asked you. I kind of think she is really young, and maybe she is just starting to grow up, and she doesn't know what she wants right now. Me being young, i went through the same thing with a 3 year relationship. I think the best thing you can do here is let whatever she decides ride out its course, if she really loves you and misses you, she will soon realize that. And I think she does, because you can't spend 5 years with a person, when they didn't mean a thing.

I have to admit to you, I think this romantic loss feeling is a bit of an excuse. This is just me, but I can't help but think in my mind there are definitely other reasons. I really don't want to plant any seeds in your head and make you think about anything that might be untrue. Pm me to talk further about this.

 

sorry for my jumbling and rambling of ideas.

[tiger_lilies]

I suppose that she is not really thinking about the 6 months in terms of numbers, but more so as to how she presently feels about the relationship. I would imagine she is in a lot of pain right now, as you are too...but she feels there is no future (marriage) for the both of you.

 

It is human nature to flee from what causes pain. If you want to reconcile, I suggest you prove to her that you want to work on the relationship. What I mean by "prove" is that you NEVER give up on trying to make her happy and loved. Each time you have contact with her do something (not just say it) to prove your commitment. So don't give up after only a couple of months. If you want to spend the rest of your life with her, you'd better prove it!

 

My ex gave up on us way too soon, which I feel was a major loss. If he meant what he said to me, then I would've believed him if he just kept up the work. Unfortuneately, he got lazy and gave up. That still kills me today and makes me think that he was lying to me the entire time.

[RayKay]

tiger_lilies

 

Do you mean he gave up after you broke it off too soon?

[xxatti]

How in the world did you let her turn this whole situation around on you? You've let her make you believe that this breakup is all your fault and that had you done things differently you two would still be together right now. Well I dont buy it, and from the looks of things she's the one who holds most of the blame for this breakup. For whatever her reasons, she decided that she was not happy in the relationship anymore. Once that happens, there isnt anything you can do to change it. But that doesnt mean that it's your fault. She may have felt that she just grew appart from you. I dont think you should have to appolagize for it.

[shockeddismayed]

Fletch,

 

I'm so sorry to be reading your post. Some of it sounds so familiar. I also got a similar breakup after 7 years... she'd felt a "fading" of her love for me... also triggered by her losing her ability to confront me and ask for what she needed. I've since heard SO many friends talk about this type of situation. Unfortunately some worked it out and others didn't.

 

Here are a few comments:

1) I think you have done probably as much as you can right now. You've told her you want to work on it (letter) and you've shown her (church). Unfortunately it doesnt sound like she is willing to hear it right now.

 

2) She is still on the fence. She DID accept your invite to lunch... but yes, she backed out later. She hasn't healed yet... thereforeeee she doesn't want to see you yet. Fair enough.

 

3) I think you realize that not talking about marriage in 5 years was a big mistake. The girls are going to come on here and crucify you (in a nice way ). And I have to agree... I find it hard to believe that it didn't ever come up, and that the only reason was that you didn't want to pressure her. Are you sure there wasn't more to it on your side? Perhaps you weren't ready until recently?

 

4) So she wasn't happy with the way you treated her for 6 months. What else were you/weren't you doing? My guess is that your behaviour (whatever it was) and your failing to mention marriage made her feel that you didn't love her (or at least didn't GIVE to her) as much as she needed. It's a classic mistake to love someone but to keep it inside, or to express it in ways that may go unnoticed. Her hurt caused her to distance herself.

 

My ex and I are only now realizing (3 months post break) that part of the breakup was that she felt I'd lost affection for her... she started tiptoeing to avoid conflict (and her fear I'd leave)... then it didn't take long for her to WANT out herself. Resentment can build that quickly if it is left unchecked.

 

5) How long will it take her to come around? There is no answer for this. My EX was somewhat repentant the day after the breakup, saying "I might want to try this again, but I'm too tired now"... then she denied ever having said it for a little while. In our chat last week she admitted that she couldn't even read any of the letters I'd left with her until about 6-8 weeks after the breakup. She said the pain/injury from what happened was so sharp that she had to ignore it for a while.

 

I've also recently spoken to another couple... they had a 6 year relationship with the same situation (except they were already newly married when the breakup happened). In that one, the girl said flat out "we'll never get back together, I NEVER loved you, move on" repeatedly in month one. Then by month 2 was sending mixed messages... by month 3 agreed to counselling ONLY IF it was done for the purpose of the NEXT relationship. By month 4 counselling night was date night... month 5 moved back in. It is now a year later and she said she is madly in love again.

 

6) The "romantic" issue: What I think she means is that when things started to go sour, she lost her ability to be attracted to you. Perhaps it can come back if things are good again... perhaps not. This is common for both women and men in long relationships. At some level you KNOW the other one is still attractive, but what attracted you to them (smiles, glow, attitude, etc) has faded. I got this line from my EX too... she's recently said that when we've been talking and friendly to each other she can feel her attraction returning, but when things were sour, she was convinced that she wasn't attracted to me.

 

7) She doesn't miss you: Again... no sure answer here. It seems likely that it could be her anger/resentment talking, in which case it may pass. I find it hard to believe that she doesn't miss you at all. But she may have convinced herself of that. Either way, there is nothing you can do here. In the married couple I described above she claimed she didn't miss him at first and they eventually worked it out. In my situation she admitted repeatedly that she did miss me... but she's yet to say for sure whether we will work this out together or not.

 

 

So what ADVICE can I give? Well... I think you've done almost as much as you can right now. She isn't ready to be in contact with you, so you need to work on yourself right now. There are plenty of posts here that will give you good advice in that regard... but you know the drill. Channel your hurt into self improvement and personal growth.

 

If she does get back in contact, you will be much better off. If she doesn't, then let it go... she (like you said) isn't ready to walk the walk about working through things in a comitted/mature relationship with you... and you deserve better than that no matter WHAT you did. (well ok, with a few exceptions).

 

What worked best for me was to find my own internal peace first. I came to realize what I had to offer... had some optimism that she KNEW that, and worked really hard on remembering that my happiness is INTERNAL, not external. This helped me cope with my stress at work, which (like you) was a major stressor on my relationship.

 

When I had my EXGF around to support me, I had somehow forgotten/buried the feeling of internal peace that I needed to keep in order to be happy. I think I'd put it away b/c whenever she was happy I didn't seem to need it... and that she could pull me out of a mood. The problem was that when she stopped emotionally regulating me I STAYED down. This was a big learning for me.

[kmboyer]

I don't want this to sound hurtful...but it sounds like she was a little depressed and also, that she had been thinking about this decision for a long time.

 

When people move on abruptly it usually is that they have thought it out. I am sure that she cares for you a great deal, however right now, you should move on. She is not asking you to wait until she figures out what she needs...she is telling you she wants to move on.

 

That may change in the future...you know her best, write her a letter and tell her exactly what you feel and what you would like to try to change. Ask her to take a leap of faith with you. Then wait and if she does not respond, then it sounds like there is your answer....it doesn't mean she will never be back.

[a_little_sparrow]

What kmboyer has said is really interesting. One thing I've been so scared of when reading replies to my own post as well as other posts on the site is this whole, "Let go of her." And I think, "But if I let go of her then that means it's all over."

 

I'm starting to figure out that's not completely the case. Letting go means that I'm concentrating on myself, figuring out what I want. It doesn't mean that I've given up on my ex and I getting back together at some point. It means that I've done everything I can to let her know how I feel, and what I would like. She knows the door is open, but she has to decide on her own to come through it.

 

Fletch, I think kmboyer's suggestion is really good. If you use the letter to explain to her how you feel, she will have to decide what she wants after that. You can't force her to do anything. There was undeniably a chemistry between you, otherwise you wouldn't have been together for so long.

 

Also keep in mind that this anger actually indicates a very strong emotion she has toward you. Let her work through it and she might realize that the anger was just a disheveled love. No guarantee--but I think it's better that she's angry than ambivalent.

[Scout]

What did you mean by "negative teasing." Something struck me as odd about that phrase. I'd be curious to find out what you did that annoyed her so, so that you can examine and make sure you don't do it again with her, or future relationships.

[RayKay]

What kmboyer has said is really interesting. One thing I've been so scared of when reading replies to my own post as well as other posts on the site is this whole, "Let go of her." And I think, "But if I let go of her then that means it's all over."

 

I'm starting to figure out that's not completely the case. Letting go means that I'm concentrating on myself, figuring out what I want. It doesn't mean that I've given up on my ex and I getting back together at some point. It means that I've done everything I can to let her know how I feel, and what I would like. She knows the door is open, but she has to decide on her own to come through it..

 

 

That latter part, that is exactly what I have realized with my own situation. The lines of communication are open, he knows my feelings for him...but he has to come to his own decisions. I am supportive, but not enabling and while I am not giving up on him, I am not giving up on myself in the process.

 

I think we often sometimes here say "what is WRONG with them (our exes)", "why do they need space", "if they love us why are they leaving". The truth is, I think they are really NORMAL for being this way. I think it would be be more unusual not to fear the future, the forever. It can be a very scary thing for someone to say "I love this person more than I thought I could, being with them could be forever". That for many leads to "I don't want to mess this up. I don't want to fail them, or this relationship. I don't know if I am ready for this responsibility". It is easier for us to think they are screwed up somehow, but really, I would be more fearful if they DID NOT HAVE DOUBTS! I mean, then I would really think they were not thinking seriously about it all and were treating the whole "forever" lightly. The fact is the future, marriage, committing yourself to someone forever is a very serious thing - it not a lifelong sleepover or honeymoon! I think sometimes a relationship requires both people to step back from it to continue. Sometimes the step back may not mean breaking up, but sometimes it does - for weeks, months, even years at times! Sometimes that gives us more clarity, helps us see what really is going on, what we want, what we lost..what is important.

 

Sometimes our exes start letting their doubts overrun their feelings for us, and start to try and convince themselves to leave/get out. Sometimes it takes them a LONG time for them to let those doubts give way for the true feelings to get through again. And time apart sometimes lets that happen..otherwise they just keep the barriers up. I know someone who broke up with his gf as the relationship was the easiest thing to let go of in the stress of his life. It took him two months to realize what he truly felt about her, and everything ended up leading back to her. They have been married 21 years, he calls her his best friend, and really credits her for their reconciliation - in that she did not shut him out, and stayed strong even though it was tough for her.

 

So let her know of your feelings, but also don't be too available. Move on, but don't close yourself off to her either. Keep the lines of communication open if you can - if she contacts you and you are strong enough to not talk about the relationship by all means talk to her. Let the pieces fall where they may, and don't push or force anything into place. It will happen as it is meant to. And what S&D said about inner peace is bang-on...happiness comes from ourselves, not from others. Some of us need time alone to find that. Some people never find it. Some always seem to have it - those people who seem to shine from the inside no matter what. My ex is on his own adventure to find that out for himself...and when he does, who knows what will happen. Don't close doors.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Thank you for everyone's thoughtful replies. As I suspected, the forum is filled with caring an insightful. Its a shame that some many times our experience comes too late for our current relationship.

 

I think that I have done as much as I can do now. I have my dignity as I agree the relationship failed due to both our inadequate communication/relationship skills. I Thought my break-up note said it all, I did send a note to her recently, inviting her to call if she ever needed to talk. As she dislikes confrontation, I am afraid that if she has a change of heart, she might think I am angry (I am but I'll avoid scaring her away) and not reach-out. Whatever her reasons for this avoidance, I think she needed to be reassured that I would provide a loving and confortable environment to talk.

 

I feel like she is running from her pain, and the anger somehow soothed the sadness and emptiness she was feeling. So, now she is content with feeding her negative view of me, because it avoids the pain I just hope eventually she realizes what we had together... before it is too late.

 

Tiger_lilies - How can I do as you suggest if she is running from me, and feels pressured when I "fight" for what I believe in. I would like to do as you say, but risk feeding more resentment.

 

Shocked&Dismayed - it sounds like we have written the same book. I agree, I am working on me, as much of my attitude resulted from shortcomings within myself. This pushed her away.

 

KM boyer - If she already made up her mind, will she not regret that she was hasty? and did not provide me with a chance to respond?

 

Thanks Again everyone.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Its been 2 weeks since my last conversation with the EXGF (6 weeks since break-up). A brief recap of the convo: after a 30 minute session catching-up, I told her that I missed her by her. She responded by telling me 1) that she was not ready to be friends, 2) she did not see us getting back together, and 3) she did not miss me. If you read my initial post, you will see that I have pretty much laid everything on the table so the ball was in her court. My response to her statements was "thank-you that will help me get closure so that I can move on. I do not think will be friends, at least not for a long time after we have healed. But we should at least be friendly as we have many of the same work colleagues." She agreed. I told it was nice talking and wished her the best.

 

Last week was her birthday. I sent her a card (I thought it was only polite) and I wrote a light note inside the card. I also included a very brief letter that invited her to call or reach out to me if she ever needed to talk, as I felt there was so much still unspoken between us. I told her that I would not judge her no matter what she had to say, whether it be positive or negative. She sent me an e-mail stating that she really appreciated the card and the note alot.

 

Her birthday was the last excuse for me to contact her. There is nothing in the foreseable future that would give me reason to contact (as again I feel the ball is clearly in her court). I was now prepared to set out on Sea of Recovery...prepared for no contact with her for months. Time to heal.

 

UNTIL...this morning when I get into work I have an e-mail waiting from her. She sent it first thing (7:00 thats early) and it said "I just want to say good morning and I hope you have a nice week." WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? I invited her to contact me with something substantial to say...not send me an inconsequential e-mail greeting that does nothing but raise speculation and put a monkey wrench in my recovery just as it resumes. After venting to myself, I sent a polite response that hopefully helps to melt the ice around her heart just a little bit more.

 

I've tried not to read anything into it, as there is nothing to read, but what the F%$#? Am I off my rocker to be confused here?

[Val_76]

Sad story you're telling us. I'm sorry to hear from your pain. From what I read you tried the best you could not to harm her in any way and you even almost made it "easy" to leave you behind with only the futile reason of not being romantic anymore. You seem very mature about all this and understand it way better than we do. I'm making the guess that you already know whats in store for you and you just want to confirm it.

 

Maybe the last email she sent you come from a feeling of guilt that touch her a little bit late. Maybe she's trying to make a life for herself and try to find a replacement for you but see how hard it is to find someone without serious life issues. Maybe she's trying to let the option of going back with you open. Maybe she now feel she don't have the option to go back and that will trigger the desire for her to actually come back to you, rediscovering romantic feelings toward you. Maybe she just want to be friendly.

 

Thats a lot of maybes. You need to move on like you were set to. There is no going back for you now and that email means nothing in substance. Bad night sleep feeling guilty about dumping a good guy the bad way? it happens. There will be no healing if you're not sure about your feelings. You've tried all you could to get her back and its now over.

 

I wish you find someone that will make you happy really soon and that a person so selfish that left you for so small a reason just stays your ex.

[shockeddismayed]

Fletch,

 

I already replied to your PM. but I thought I'd post here as well.

 

Val makes a very good point. The email could mean nothing insofar that it doesn't imply anything about getting back together.

 

However it DOES mean she is thinking of you.

 

I told you a story earlier about a couple who recovered VERY WELL despite the fact that "all romantic feelings were gone". Sometimes this can be just a protective mechanism... especially if your stressed our demeanour hurt her so badly that she couldn't deal with it. So that is the optimistic spin.

 

Of course the pesimistic spin is that many other times, those feelings, for whatever reason, just don't come back. If someone is communicating so poorly with you that they can't tell you that you aren't meeting your needs... chances are good that they lack the self awareness required to deal with the confused aftermath as well.... and or the injury runs too deep to be repaired.

 

You'd know best which of the above (or other ways of describing it) best suits you. Again... take some time... sort things out in your head. You WILL most likely get a chance to talk to her again, so be sure you know what you want to accomplish... and as you suggested to me knock the issues off in bite size pieces.

 

One more thing... I think your light response to her was just fine... I might have waited a bit longer... I hate to advocate this, but this is so fresh that you need to be in "game playing" mode for a little while, for your sanity and hers. If she is still hurt, any of the well thought up "emotional pushes" on your part will be met with resistance... so for now polite but aloof is you M.O.

 

Check out the thread "security tennis". Some of Beec's thoughts have been helpful.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Just as I suspected, my EXFG has been running from her feelings - using anger to suppress all the other emotions that surface during the healing/break-up process. The good new is that she has reached out to me...she wants to share with me "the feelings that have been pent up in her for a long time." The bad news - I dont know if this is just going to be another bash session for her to clear her mind, or whether she is doing this to reconcile. I dont know that she knows either - though, if pressed, would probably say it was just to heal.

 

 

How should I approach this conversation that she wants to have?

[shockeddismayed]

Ok....

 

Interesting. So your EX wants to have a bash session. This is a tough one.

 

You've only been out of the relationship for a little while... and worse yet, YOU have PLENTY to bash HER about. I'd worry that you are going to end up getting in a huge argument with her and just further entrench her anger and resentment.

 

If you want to get back together with her I see only two options:

1) Meet her and let her rag you out... but bite your tongue and agree with everthing.

2) Call her up, agree to the idea of hashing things out, but ask that she write it in an email/letter... that way you have time to read it and cool off before responding.

 

.....

 

Actually, on third thought... you guys have been together 5 years... a serious relationship. thereforeeee I think you should convince her that you are willing to hear her complaints, but only in the presense of a third party. This will give you a chance to respond and voice your own concerns without her storming out of the room, or throwing dishes at you. If she isn't ready for this (and I'd guess she won't jump up and down at the suggestion at first), just let her sit with it for a week or two and then ask again. If she still says no counsellor, suggest the email/letter.

 

The couple I've known best who worked it out did so through counselling. Orginally the girl only went b/c her hubby said it was so that they could both be healthier in their next relationships.

 

Food for thought.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

So here's the update on the conversation with the exgf. We had a good talk one week ago (initiated by her) in which she declared the following:

 

1) She is no longer angry with me, and she now misses me (I had suspected that it was her anger that was suppressing all of the other feelings all along)

2) She is confused right now - about life (she is 28 and just finished her part-time graduate school). What does she want to do next, where does she want to live (does she want to move back to where her family is), what type of life does she want to lead. etc.

3) She can see us trying again once she get past this confusion.

4) She asked if we could start talking again. I responded by saying "yes." But I also told her that I am not interested in being just friend as that is a short-term solution til one of us finds another gf/bf. She agreed.

 

 

Those were the highlights. There was some idle banter. But of for the most part, I tried to listen - as this was a break-through for her to be sharing her feelings.

 

After the conversation, I felt ambivalent. I was actually proud of myself for not having an emotional reaction. Did this mean that I was starting to get over her? I felt this was good, that I could approach the potential reunion with rational mind. Well, as women are so adept at doing, the seed that the exgf had planted in my head during that talk, had grown in to a sapling in my brain by the end of the week. I was beginning to miss her again, badly. I began to think it would have been better had she come back to me once she decided for sure that she wanted to reconnect. Instead, I am back in this mode of missing her, while she tries to figure things out. In a way, I am getting strung along. I can sit on the fence for a while, but that takes a lot of emotional energy, and I will want to decide one way or another fairly soon...

 

This last weekend, I had lunch with her and a friend of hers. It was positive, because there was no relationship talk. Just light chit-chat and story telling.

 

What are my next moves? How long do I give her to figure things out (that could take months - I cant wait that long)? After 5 years together, shouldn't she already know whether she wants to reconnect? And if she does, should I not participate in helping to resolve her confusion?

 

I am all for being patient and supportive, but when do we "call the question"?

[leftalone]

Fletch, this all sounds so similar to the position I am in right now. My EXBF has made tiny steps to 'come around', once going so far as to almost get back together, then I ended up with NC for three weeks. The worst thing is that when we have talked/hung out recently, so little was said about 'us' (actually, nothing at all except waxing nostalgic a little), that I felt strong and sort of ambivalent myself the next day, but of course within a day after that I felt right back where I started. Missing him terribly (still) and thinking 'so what the hell happens now? Um, what are we...?"

 

My ex got off lucky because he is now on a trip for two weeks, left right after our last conversation. He left me with a voicemail on Thursday night saying "Just calling to say good night. I guess I'll see you in a couple of weeks" (I did not return the call) and an email the next day saying "I'm leaving for the airport in 30 minutes. I'll be checking email now and then so FEEL FREE to email me". Again, making ME make all the moves and decisions.

 

All to which I'm going - how much more of this can I do? I'm wondering the same thing about 'the question'...today is three months since our break up, but am I going to be in limbo, with the occasional phone call/get together, dragging on for three more months? Six?

 

We're young, it feels like it's not fair that we're forced up onto this fence to just sit there and waste what is probably precious time because we happen to love someone. I can already feel my ambivalence starting to grow, because I don't think his reluctance has left me much choice. The same might start to happen to you - but I think you just have to hang in there until you just know that you can't wait around in-between anymore. Until you realize that you waited as long as you could...that's my position now - i'm not at the end of my rope, YET, so I'll hang in there...but it can't be much longer. At which point, I'll just know that I said everything I had to, he knew how I felt, and I waited patiently, but that I had a life to live to and he ended up losing out.

 

I know ultimatums never work, but maybe sometimes eventually they end up working for the person who issues them, even if the outcome is not what we want...But for right now, if you're still game to fight for her, DON'T PRESSURE HER - when my ex sort of came back, i made the mistake of waiting all of two daYS before pumping out my questions, my uncertainties, which I know just set me back and made him think 'okay, see? this is what I didn't want right now'....

[craigblitz]

Hahahaha trust me I know this feeling. It has only been about 2 months but all this weekend my ex text me like 8 times and called like 3 times. She was just telling me where she was and so on. I know we are all thinking that hey this was a good relationship lets continue, but they have issues they need to work out on their own. How long will that take, who knows. That is why it is vital you are not waiting for them, you have to love your life as if she or he is NOT coming back. Do not give them an ultimatium, hell my ex knew me well enough when we did talk about it she said she could not give me a time table. I was thinking ok fine, but it does suck because we want things to be normal again, but it is good in the long run the deal with what they need to now then to get back together too soon and it all sucks again.

 

Hang in there, keep us posted.

[shockeddismayed]

Fletch...

 

HOLY COW>>>>> I think I've read this before somewhere. As you know, I've been (and still am) in this exact situation.

 

What can I say.... first, I think the advice that leftalone and craigblitz gave was very useful. The tough part is that there is no real answer for this.... NCing her might work, being friendly and aloof might work, or just pretending this is a new relationship and going with the flow might also work. It all depends on your feel for your own situation and her personality.... and it depends on your patience.

 

In an ideal situation, you'll just not contact her at all, and she'll keep contacting you. You'll go out for dates (like the one last weekend), you'll be friendly, flirtatious but just slightly out of reach, and she will put the moves on you.... you respond, then start taking up the ball and asking her out... then eventually you call the question. This is the best for your ego, but if she is really afraid of hurting you or herself again, she may not come to this alone.

 

That being the case, you could use more of a 1for1 strategy. Your EX invited you out on the weekend, you invite her out next (say next weekend or a little later). For any contact she gives, you give another one back, just not right away. Gradually decrease the time btwn contacts and eventually you will both feel like you are dating again... things should flow naturally from there.

 

Basically I think in your case you can afford to be a bit aggressive if you feel it is needed... the worst thing that can happen is that you ask her to do something and she says no. At least that doesn't leave you hanging. If she says yes, just go with the flow... and keep doing this until she makes the move on getting back together. In this way, you are in control of seeing her, but you give her an opportunity to follow through on what she wants (hopefully you) (so she'll still feel it was her decision and take ownership for it).

 

I had to take this strategy with my EX, cuz she has always been a hopeless procrastinator about matters of the heart... she has a tendency to overanalyze and focus inwardly for long periods of time (when I met her she was still slowly recovering from a relationship that ended 3 years earlier).

 

If you ex is more assertive, you can opt for the former strategy... and it does sound like she is willing to come to you.

 

However with both strategies, I think it is important that you give a couple to a half dozen very positive exchanges before you put any pressure on her in terms of comittment. Remember, it has been 5 years, but you've only been split for a very short time.... it will take her time to build herself and her courage back up (keep in mind SHE may be worried of being hurt as well).

 

BIG TIP: I've been having trouble with this for the past few weeks... until I realized that I'd stopped doing all of the things that helped me recover from the breakup... once I started really focussing on those things again, it helped. So whatever that was for you (exercise, going out, eating well) remember to KEEP doing it. It sounds silly, but it is easy to forget this part.

 

BIG BONUS: You called it perfectly on her running from her feelings... so if you take some time to focus on this with a clear head, you'll realize that you know her so well you know EXACTLY how much you can take the lead on push, and how much to leave her alone.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Thanks for you comments. I think you are all right-on with your assessment.

 

Right now I am leaning towards S&Ds slightly aggressive approach and here are my reasons:

 

1) In our last conversation when I said that it was okay for her to call me, she responded by saying that I could call her as well (as if to say "chase me a little...make me feel wanted") - I feel the same as Leftalone... where I am expected to make much of the effort even though I was the one that was dumped. This comes as only a gut-feel, and not from anything specific that she has said.

 

2) Also in our last conversation, she stated that I had faltered in making her feel special in ther period prior to our break-up (she said this in a nice way).

 

3) Her request to have this conversation only came about because of the note that I placed in her birthday card telling her that it was all right to reach-out to me, no matter the circumstances (I was afraid that she would assume that she would not be bold enough to initiate contact even if she wanted to)

 

So, I believe I am dealing with a non-aggressive personality that wants to be comforted in her time of confusion, and made to feel special. I recall an early post from tiger-lilies where she wanted her ex "prove" his love to her and not give-up. I feel like I should do something dramatic/romantic to try and "wow" her - something to sweep her off of her feet. But then I step back and think... that would probably be too much pressure.... so i'll settle for only mildly aggressive. I am still trying to think what I should say - I want to give her some of what she wants but not too much so that she wants more... at the same time not making myself a doormat.

 

This zone sucks, and it has only just started. Must.....Keep.....fighting.....

[shockeddismayed]

Sounds good Fletch...

 

I'm glad you've realized that you shouldn't do anything to "sweep her off her feet". You are right... I think she needs the opportunity to feel as though she chose to re-initiate the romance... but it doesn't hurt to provide her with the bait.

 

And remember the bait is you... as yourself... just being friendly and somewhat available.

 

Also... I forgot about that "you didn't make me feel special" comment. That is absolutely A#1 reason why you need to give a little here. You need to remind her of why she felt so loved by you in a very controlled way.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

So, where do I begin...

 

Last week was a good week. The exgf and I agreed to "try" to work things out. I believe the cumulative effect of NC, being supportive but not being too available helped to bring her around. In a discussion I had with her last week I was able to clarify:

 

1) That she is 100% behind trying to work this out

2) She acknowledged that it was her anger that caused her loss of romantic feelings.

3) Her confusion over life and where she wanted to live (she had thought about moving back home) was a result of our emotional turmoil.

4) She said that she would like us to see a counselor to help us through this process and our issues. I agreed, but told her that the counselor was only a tool to help us, and not the cure-all. We needed to do the hard work together, and not rely on just the counselor.

 

We had a nice dinner a few days later, which ended with some innocent smooching. It felt really good. We planned to go on another date one week later.

 

On the day after the dinner she called to say thanks and that she had a good time. After some pleasantries, I asked when I could see her again. She responded that we had the date in one week. I think a let out a little sigh of dissappointment but said "oh okay." She responded to this by saying that now she felt guilty (that she didnt want to see me sooner). I told her that I didnt want to make her feel guilty, I just looked forward to seeing her again and that we will have to feel our way through each others comfort zone in the beginning of this reconciliation process. I also asked if she had called the counselor (which I had done the leg work and researched days before) She responded that she did not have enough time and the weather had been too nice on the weekend to stay inside and make the call. The call ended on a decent note. I felt disappointed that she wanted to wait a week before seeing each other again - even if just for a few minutes, but I understood. I also felt that if the counselor (and us) were such a priority to her, that she would have called the counselor sooner to set something up. Again, I told myself to be patient.

 

Over the next few days we had brief "update" conversations. I am still feeling my way through how frequently we should talk. I am trying to be supportive of her and reassure her that I am around, at the same time I do not want to be over-bearing. As I had been accused of not making her feel "special," I have erred on the side of talking more frequently - afterall we dated for 5 years so this should not be like starting over from scratch. Right?

 

Well, we had another call last night that was kind of bland (this is now just one week after we agreed to "try"). I asked if we were still on for our date this weekend. She responded by saying that she wanted to switch days. She had some friends that she wanted to see on the of our scheduled date. I felt pissed, but I did not say anything. If our relationship is to be a priority (again a partial reason for the break-up), then I would think she would schedule her friends around our date. Especially, when we are just seeing each other once per week and she has plenty of time to see these friends. She also still did not mention anything about the counselor. The call ends on a bland note.

 

I stewed for a few minutes, because I am starting to feel yanked around. Either we are going to try reconciling, and make each other a priority or we are not. I just want to feel like she is meeting me half-way, and I am not. I called her back 5 minutes later and calmly asked that we have a conversation about our expectations through this reconcilition process. I told her that I thought it was important that we had similar expectations, so that neither of us gets unduly frustrated. She asked that we have this converstation at another point as she was tired and ready for bed. Not wanting to push the issue, I agreed. She mentioned, as an afterthought, that she scheduled the session with counselor. I am thinking to myself, if this was so important to her, why didnt she tell me this sooner? After all I was not consulted on the schedule and needed to drive her there (she does not know where it is).

 

So today I am a brewing caldron of emotions. Feeling those unresolved emotions from the break-up, and yanked around by someone who came back to me wanting to try. I am trying to be patient, dealing with my emotions so as to not impact our reconciliation. I feel in my heart that things can work. However, the emotional pull to give an ultimatum is getting stronger. I have been in this gray area for too long.

 

Does anybody have any advice?

[leftalone]

Fletch, I hear you on the pulled back and forth perspective. My ex has now, for the second time in the almost four months we've been apart, started to come around again, and after two wonderful evenings together so far this week, I'm starting to get the itch to deliver an ultimatum myself. I leave in the morning thinking "okay, so what next? is it all up to him?" We rarely address what we 'are' right now, just the occasional comment he makes here and there...

 

I keep reminding myself over and over that the ultimatum is probably 99% sure to push him away - so I think I'm going to pass that feeling on to you, too. Patience, patience, patience. If you really, really want this to work, it does have to be on both of your terms, but remember, you're not the one who decided to end the relationship ever - if it was up to you, you'd never have broken up, right? So, of COURSE it seems obvious to you to move things along as quickly as possible, but for her it is probably the last remnants of her doubts keeping their hold on her, and influencing her actions (or lack thereof as the case may be). Don't give her any reason to decide to bolt again...but just make sure that while the leash you give her is long, that your self-respect, etc. doesn't totally get away from you in the process.

 

As for me and my ex, I'm trying to follow the same advice, but once I feel that we've reached a certain comfort level around each other again when we do hang out, certain things are going to need to be addressed. I'm just keeping it cool, and continuing on with my own self recovery in the meantime, just in case i find myself having to really move on...

 

You do the same - put her out of your mind (I know, ha ha yeah right) wherever or however possible when you two are not in contact, and just go with the flow of what's happened so far - think of the progress already! Her saying she is "100%" trying to work things out together is really a huge, huge step forward, right?? Just remember that...

[shockeddismayed]

Hmmm...

 

For some reason this feels so familiar....

 

Auntie Em? Is that you?

 

Fletch... you are doing fine. You should be feeling like you are right now... you are being jerked around. But that IS an expectation when you are trying to work things out.

 

You need to keep being the supportive YOU that you were all through the breakup. I know that feels IMPOSSIBLE right now... but it will be less so if you can keep doing things for yourself.

 

I can't offer much advice, except:

 

Recognize your feelings.

 

Don't vent on anyone who is going to play the "you've waited long enough" card back at you... what do they know about your heart (aside: when my loved ones started to say those things back to me, it led to my ultimatum... don't let them decide based on their love for you... they just want to see you happy, and are probably frustrated that they can't help in any more direct way). .... in fact, you might choose to exercise instead of tell your friends/family the blow by blow... exercise is always impartial... as is this board. Your friends family are going to look out for you, without having ever felt in love with your EX... that makes them biased.

 

Recognize that she booked the counselling as a MAJOR step in your favour.

 

Since you will be going to counselling, try to avoid deep, heavy conversations when you are not with the counsellor... play things happy and light and just enjoy each other. If something comes up, suggest that you wait for your next session. You are both so raw right now, that you could both over-react.

 

Use your time together to further the healing process... learn to trust each other again.... smile a lot... make her feel secure... and do your best to enjoy the same from her, even though your mind will second guess everything.

 

Realize that this AGONIZING process WILL take time, but recognize that thousands of dumpees on this board never get to where you are... you are in the last 2-3 miles of your marathon... keep pushing (yourself, not her).

 

It will happen. Believe that... but acknowledge that it will be at her pace... she was the one who was unsure... that can't change overnight. All you can ask is that she tries.... and she IS doing that.