I don't get women and I'm fed up...again.

[Seymore]

So I had posted a week ago about this girl J ("can't shut my mouth when flirting"), who works at a local coffee shop I go to a couple of times a week. We pick on each other and joke around, and she's really friendly with me. I started wondering if she was interested in me when I had her going for my entire visit two weeks ago (about 45 minutes) about how old I am. She REALLY wanted to know and I kept toying with her. She also pestered me about it for my next two visits and the last time I joked with her about it once and she said "You keep lying to me" like the joke was getting old, so I told her my age and that in two weeks it'll be my birthday so I expect a happy birthday. We started talking after that, and quit taking jabs at each other for a while. We talked about her looking for an extra job since her hours got cut, her life before she moved here, stuff like that, and I felt like I had broken through her tough side and was having a meaningful conversation.

 

So today I walk in, knowing she'll be there. There were a lot of customers, so we talked and joked very briefly while I ordered, and I went to sit down and read the paper. I wasn't about to hover over the cash register waiting for her to finish with all the customers, who kept coming in, so I figure if she wants to talk, she can come by and talk when she gets a minute. Half an hour goes by and I'm done with my coffee, while her and her co-worker are joking around with some other customers at the register. I didn't feel like hanging around until they were done so I waved bye to the girls and left. J says "Bye Seymore, thanks for talking to me" in a sarcastic tone.

 

What the heck am I supposed to do? I don't want to sit there waiting for her to have a free minute and immediately pop up because that looks needy.

[k4ppa]

Ask for a number man!!

[Seymore]

She didn't come by and talk to me, I'm thinking she doesn't care enough to, but then when she said "Thanks for talking to me", I'm like * * * ? I'm just confused.

[Fudgie]

Yep, definitely time for the number. Just ask for it!

 

She probably was busy with others and wanted YOU to make a move.

[H20]

Next time she rings you out.........write YOUR number down..and as you leave say...'texts accepted too"...She's digging you.but you gotta 'OPEN' it up.....

[jettison]

You are way over-thinking this. You're the man. Go be a man. If you make her take all the risks, she's going to start believing that you don't have the courage to be with her. And if she's talking with friends or co-workers? That's an even better time to interrupt. It shows you have balls and that no one is going to throw you off.

[alli]

Observe how she speaks & behaves with other customers. If she acts similar to them as she does you, she's probably just doing her job. If not, it is possible that she likes you. Instead of giving her your number, I would suggest hanging out sometime. Like when she said "Thanks for NOT talking to me!" I might have said "You were busy & I didn't want to interrupt you, but why don't we continue this conversation friday night at ____?"

[misssmithviii]

I agree with the other posters, she was saying that because she wanted you to talk to her. She would probably have liked for you to initiate and look all cute wanting to talk to her, I mean she's working and you brighten up her day.

 

Write your number down like H20 said, godknows she could be wondering if you're still interested in her so make a move ;]

[Seymore]

You are way over-thinking this. You're the man. Go be a man. If you make her take all the risks, she's going to start believing that you don't have the courage to be with her. And if she's talking with friends or co-workers? That's an even better time to interrupt. It shows you have balls and that no one is going to throw you off.

 

She wasn't talking with friends, just random customers, and I didn't want to be rude. I have no problem when she's talking with a co-worker since I know everyone that works there and they'd include me.

 

I guess I'm also confused because I read somewhere that you have to act like YOU are the prize and chasing after them is a turn-off. Instead of hanging all over them, you have to act like you don't NEED them, because neediness is a turn-off.

[Seymore]

Observe how she speaks & behaves with other customers. If she acts similar to them as she does you, she's probably just doing her job. If not, it is possible that she likes you. Instead of giving her your number, I would suggest hanging out sometime. Like when she said "Thanks for NOT talking to me!" I might have said "You were busy & I didn't want to interrupt you, but why don't we continue this conversation friday night at ____?"

 

I was thinking about that. I'm not really sure if she talks to me like she does with the other customers. About a month ago I was sitting there by myself and she kept snapping her fingers at me like she was trying to get my attention to tell me something and when she finally said "HEY!" I said, half-joking: "Excuse me? My name's not hey or snap, snap", and when she asked my name I told her and that's how we started off. So sometimes she'll go out of her way to talk to me, it seems, and she's not like that with the other customers. I mean, she's friendly, but she won't walk up to their table and start talking. I don't know, it's hard to read.

 

So next time I see her in a couple of days, I'll give her my number and say "Now you can't complain that I don't talk to you. If you have something to say, here's my number."

[alli]

She wasn't talking with friends, just random customers, and I didn't want to be rude. I have no problem when she's talking with a co-worker since I know everyone that works there and they'd include me.

 

I guess I'm also confused because I read somewhere that you have to act like YOU are the prize and chasing after them is a turn-off. Instead of hanging all over them, you have to act like you don't NEED them, because neediness is a turn-off.

 

Neediness IS a turnoff, but showing interest in someone isn't

[alli]

 

So next time I see her in a couple of days, I'll give her my number and say "Now you can't complain that I don't talk to you. If you have something to say, here's my number."

 

Eh, I honestly think your best shot is to directly ask her to hang out sometime rather than handing her the ball & running away.

[cpc28655]

There is a fine line between not being needy, and ignoring someone. You just crossed that line. That's all im going to say.

[Seymore]

Ignored her how? I talked with her a bit then got out of the way for other customers. Sat down, did my own thing. As far as I saw, the customers never let up and so I left. Was I supposed to walk up and stand in line to talk to her again?

[shuttlefish]

Please give it another shot Seymour, go at a time when you think it might not be too busy and just ask for her number. Life is short. Make that the purpose of your trip to the cafe. Go in, minor chit chat and get the number. Have something ready to go to in mind in case she asks questions like "so where do you want to take me etc" and you're not going "uhhhh, geez, I'm still at the getting the number stage here" Ok, I know you're not that useless lol

 

Anyway I think you are over -analysing things. Plus I think she is wondering what on earth she has to do in order for you to ask her out!!!

 

Don't give up now and don't be frustrated. This kind of thing isn't easy but....the rewards are awesome. It's the guys who don't let the setbacks affect them (effect them?) are the ones who do well with women. Be one of those guys.

[jettison]

It's true. The guys who not only accept but flourish with setbacks end up doing well with women. Embrace it. Hope for it. Seek out failure. And eventually, you end up winning a few battles, and next thing you know the girl is yours. After all, it only takes one yes.

[oldenoughtoknow]

I agree with the others, Seymore. You should ask her out, and yes, you're over thinking. She's given you enough clues.

 

It's been decades since I've worked retail, but she probably needed you to come talk to her because she couldn't leave her counter. Talking to paying customers at the counter is good for business. It makes the staff look friendly and service oriented. But most retail managers frown on employees going out and sitting with the customers to talk. That looks like loafing.

 

And no, I don't think you ignored her. If anything, it probably threw her off a bit, and that's a good thing. Now, she's probably thinking A LOT about you and what you're thinking. (This is SO cute!)

 

Next time, I wouldn't give her your number. Take control and ask for her number. Say something like "you know, last time I was in, you seemed upset that I didn't talk to you enough. I want to make it up to you. Give me your number."

 

You're golden, dude! You can thank us later.

[veneratio]

She's been giving you IOIs, man. It's time for you to swoop in. Doing that isn't needy at all, it's just stepping up to the plate, like I believe she's expecting you to. You've already proven that you aren't needy so far.

 

rich nailed it..you're golden, man. Let us know how it goes.

[Seymore]

She's been giving you IOIs, man. It's time for you to swoop in. Doing that isn't needy at all, it's just stepping up to the plate, like I believe she's expecting you to. You've already proven that you aren't needy so far.

 

rich nailed it..you're golden, man. Let us know how it goes.

 

IOIs...You've read The Game, I take it. I'm reading it right now. This girl has been my "experiment" with regards to that book - someone whom I'm not overly into, so it's someone I can neg and not feel totally bad about. I was considering giving her an ESP test or a NLP test to engage her in a deeper conversation, but you're right, I'm overthinking. Next time I'll try to overcome the fear and just get her number!

[Cal Lily]

"I guess I'm also confused because I read somewhere that you have to act like YOU are the prize and chasing after them is a turn-off. Instead of hanging all over them, you have to act like you don't NEED them, because neediness is a turn-off."

 

IS BAD BAD BAD ADVICE........

 

No, since the beginning of time, THE WOMAN is to be treated as the prize. Men court women. And if you don't chase after a girl, then she will simply think you don't want to.

 

So if she is talking to another man and you act jealous; and YOU decide to talk to another woman to make her jealous; she will only drop you from her list of courters.

 

"Not acting needy" does NOT mean acting like you don't need someone else. "Acting needy" would mean asking a person, "why???" or "how come" they don't want you over and over again. Or asking why she doesn't like you, or if you did something wrong, etc.

 

Women have internal nurturing installed for childcare, NOT man-care. So, to a woman, a needy man is an insecure man; someone to run away from. However, a bully is just as bad; if not worse.

 

Be friendly, give her attention, treat her like a beautiful flower, and GIVE HER YOUR NUMBER !!!! The worse she could do is say no. And if you act mature enough about it, she may say "yes" later on.

 

You sound sweet. I think you have a chance ~ she sounds like she already likes you. A woman will definitely LET YOU KNOW if she is interested or not. No head games about it.

[Curious_Girl]

"I guess I'm also confused because I read somewhere that you have to act like YOU are the prize and chasing after them is a turn-off. Instead of hanging all over them, you have to act like you don't NEED them, because neediness is a turn-off."

 

IS BAD BAD BAD ADVICE........

 

I agree with you.

 

OP

This is why I hate the PUA books. And I know - I'm a woman so I won't really tell guys the truth - at least that's what those guys say. How else would they sell a book?

 

That behaviour will attract some women, but maybe these are not the women you want. It will probably be needy women who need to prove to themselves that they can "get" a man. Since these are often the women who are easy to get into bed (for the same reason), if that's what you want, you will be "successful."

 

If you want a woman with healthy self-esteem, she will want you to show interest. This doesn't mean following her around like a puppy - that is not the definition of a "nice guy," though guys seem to think it is - but treating her like she's special.

 

You are both prizes for the right person.

[Seymore]

Well, I'm not looking for some club * * * * * , that's for sure. But simply being myself isn't cutting it because I'm too nice and too available, and that's part of the reason I finally just left the other night, I wasn't about to hang around for an extra hour just for her - I've got a life to live. If she's there tonight we'll see how it goes.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Well, I'm not looking for some club * * * * * , that's for sure. But simply being myself isn't cutting it because I'm too nice and too available, and that's part of the reason I finally just left the other night, I wasn't about to hang around for an extra hour just for her - I've got a life to live. If she's there tonight we'll see how it goes.

 

And that's the right way to handle it. Put yourself out there, express interest, but don't be a door mat or a puppy dog, waiting for her to be available to talk you. Show her you have a life, you're busy, you're in demand. That's what I've found to pique a woman's interest.

 

I've looked through some of the PUA books, and I don't agree with most of them either...unless that's the type of superficial woman and relationship you're looking for. The part that I have found that makes sense is the attitude you mentioned. In practice (for me) it essentially boils down to treating a woman you're interested in like a person. Yes, any other person - nothing more, nothing less. Don't think of any single one of them as a "prize" (sorry, Cal Lily), because, oh look, there's another one standing right over there. Quick, tell me which one of them is the love of your life? The future mother of your children? I didn't think so. You haven't met either one of them yet. Thinking of a woman as a prize just doesn't work well for guys.

 

Adopting that attitude also helps you take the pressure off of yourself. You'll feel less nervous, less anxious, not dreading a potential rejection. Talk to them, laugh with them, tease them - like they're a regular "person." Not this potential love interest/prize that you're putting on a pedestal, hoping to secure. Thinking of any woman you're attempting to talk to as a prize will make you come accross as an insecure, needy doormat. Guess what happens then? You just lost their interest. You just shot yourself in the foot.

 

Once you have their interest, you can slowly start adding the special treatment. But don't just hand it to them - make them feel like they're earning it. That will increase their interest even more. That's why I thought it was perfect when you left - did you notice her reaction? She was interested in YOU, and wondering why YOU didn't talk to HER. That got her attention! You weren't being a d**k, you were treating her like any other person. That's also why I suggested you get her phone number. Giving her your number gives her control - you'll be the one waiting by the phone for a call. Women like men with confidence, and taking control of certain situations demonstrates that necessary characteristic.

 

When you really study this aspect of human behavior, you'll notice a lot of this works both ways - women have been doing this to men since the beginning of time. You want to chase after what you don't think you can have. It's just human nature.

[veneratio]

^ couldn't have said it better. Best advice so far.

 

I agree, you did good by leaving. I think those are the two best things you can take away from PUA books. Treat yourself like you are a prize, yes, by having confidence and not waiting around for her. As you did. Also by not putting her on a pedestal when it isn't deserved or earned. I think you've got that down as well. Plus the way you're handling the situation is good..you're right. You've got to let her know you have other things to do and that you aren't just waiting for her. So..you did good, man. Keep the attitude up.

 

And the stuff you've been applying to the situation from the game--yeah I read it, I thought what you were talking about sounded familiar, but didn't want to be presumptuous working. I think it suits the situation. You aren't treating her like a piece of meat, but rather, as you said, you're using it to further engage her and it's working.

[Seymore]

Well, forget this entire situation.

 

I went there tonight, and she ("J") wasn't there. However, "T" was working there tonight (I've known her for a couple of years now, she's in her 40s), and J & T had become good pals and hung out since J started working there.

 

So since J wasn't there, I asked T what she thought of J. T said that she's got a tough exterior which she puts on as a front, but she is so sweet and nice and extremely mature for her age. So I ask the obvious: And what age is that? I'm thinking 26, 27, since by her personality and behavior that would be a valid guess. The answer?

 

20. Even T was shocked when J told her. So I said "Oh, well, that's ok, then, thanks anyway." I told a friend of mine and he claims J lied through her teeth when she said 20. But 10 years younger than me?

 

But rich, you (and everyone else) had very good advice to give. It's a shame it didn't work out right, though. I was SO convinced she was at least 26.