So threapy can make you WORSE...

[1MoreChance]

I have started to read "Feeling Good" by David Burns. (cognitive therapy)

 

I am really enjoying it.

 

One of the things he says is that therapy can make you WORSE than you already are. Aside from the emotional / psychological abuse I have suffered for years at the hands of a "therapist" (and in 2008 he had allegations of sexual abuse on a patient - and a minor on top of it - and he has given up his licence. it was in the media, if you want to read the article see the link below). don't ask why I didn't denounce him. I was 16 when I started seeing him and he was like a god to me. I didn't question his behavior/practices until many years after I stopped going.

 

I saw another therapist last year and she used some of the techniques Dr Burns says can worsen depression and anxiety. I felt that the therapy didn't help much and I ended it after a year.

 

I called a clinic which is 75$ an hour (and that's according to my income, they operate on a sliding scale basis. last year I made 30 000 gross. I can't imagine what a person making 60 000 or 80 000 a year has to pay...). I have no ionsurance. Any suggestions? I'm scared to worsen myslef if I choose the wrong approach. There is a place that has free support groups near my house.... It's scary though....

 

link removed

[NightLily]

I honestly think that therapy can sometimes just keep you in the hole you are in. There is nothing wrong with addressing your problems, but for me, it caused me to more fixate on the past and my problems. The reality of my situation is that a long number of the .. bad situations I am in or have been in are totally out of my control. For me, it seems best right now to just focus on what I can do and really try to move forward.

 

This probably all depends on exactly where you are. If you are in a deep hole, you might need some help to get out. Or, if all is better you might be in a better place to fix some things. I don't know.

 

Without knowing what your specific problems are it is kind of hard to say what might help. First I would think if you are having some habits holding you back from being happier. Poor diet, lack of exercise, isolation. Then start taking steps there. You could allow yourself to be sad for two days and then make a list of things you can't say or do (negativity). Spend a few days trying to accomplish things and be positive.. dress nicer. Whatever helps. Some people also like to journal or draw or.. any outlet.

 

I think therapy can only take you so far. So keep searching for a therapist who fits your needs. Be willing to leave and find somebody else. And, look outside therapy for ways to improve your mental health.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

wow i think its pretty amazing that this post came out today.

 

I have been contemplating stopping therapy ... because i feel like my counselor is just drudging up old past bs .. which i feel is keeping me in counseling much longer then i need to be.

 

Before my ex- i felt like my past was my past- my manipulative ex convinced me that all of the problems in our relationship were because of me and my relationship with my father.

 

so i started going to counseling believing it was my fault and that i had to "get over" the past. since ending things with my ex and all of his manipulating lies have been revealed to me..i see that my behavior was just someone who was frustrated with their situation ...

 

i have been away from my ex for about 2 months now- and every day it becomes clear to me that yes... while i had my share of "moments" - i was not the cause of those moments...i was sane person trying to fit into an insane persons life.

 

But i'm still on the fence in regards to counseling... somedays it feels good to go there and vent and talk about my break up and everything that went on...

 

others ..i dont want to deal with it anymore-

 

so again .. i'm on the fence.

 

i might get this book....

 

what is this book about exactly? does it talk about the pros and cons of counseling... counseling methods?

[Jetta]

Therapy ruined my life in some ways because I got too forthright with my feelings and they were used against me, thus losing my son who now lives in foster care thinking he had a good mom and didn't understand what happened. Because my thoughts didn't match my actions, and I was completely stressed by a challenging child so I relayed that information and lost him. So honestly I don't trust therapists and have refused them ever since. Although most people think I'm in therapy because I'm so level headed despite my newfound condition.

[1MoreChance]

wow i think its pretty amazing that this post came out today.

 

I have been contemplating stopping therapy ... because i feel like my counselor is just drudging up old past bs .. which i feel is keeping me in counseling much longer then i need to be.

 

Before my ex- i felt like my past was my past- my manipulative ex convinced me that all of the problems in our relationship were because of me and my relationship with my father.

...

 

i might get this book....

 

what is this book about exactly? does it talk about the pros and cons of counseling... counseling methods?

 

 

The book is about how to heal depression (and anxiety) by changing your thoughts. to change your thoughts you have to identify the cognitive distortions you have (he explains what those are). you must keep a log of your thoughts, identify the cognitive distortions that they stem from and replace them with a rational thought.

 

he also makes you answer questions to determine whether you are clinically depressed and to what degree. I scored extremelly depressed. It scared me but it really gave me a reality check.

 

regarding how therapy can make you worse, he talks about a couple of techniques, namely the "prolongued silence" technique, where the therapist leaves big hole of silence and waits for you to say something. my last therapist did this regurlarly (other therapists did as well, including that creep in the article I posted. he was my "therapist" for 5 YEARS and he would sometimes do a whole session of "prolongued silence", where he also expressed a lot of angry intimidating energy - non verbally).

 

Anyway back to my last therapist, my thoughts started racing when she did this, I felt so anxious and it would get my thoughts going and I'd start analysing stuff and feeling really uncomfortable and this is EXACTLY what Burns says can happen. He says it is a non directive technique where the therapist is passive and that it "frequently" worsens the patient's depression and anxiety.

 

the other approach he criticizes is explaining all the beliefs (thoughts) and behaviors with the past (childhood, etc.). He says it's ok to let the patient ventilate emotions and talk about his or her past to a point but it isn't the focus of cognitive therapy. it's more directive than that. the therapist has to challenge your thoughts / beliefs constantly and confront you with those challenges. anyway I'm not a therapist but this is my understanding.

 

Another thing he says is that some therapists get convinved by their client that they are what they say they are (a looser, a failure...). I notice that a little with my family. I had pushed them away for a week or two because I feared telling them how depressed I felt (cause I felt like a failure and a looser). I finally communicated how I felt and went to see my sister and brother, but my mom and sister told me something like "sometimes you give up on therapists when you don't like them much, you have to persevere..." which really isn't true at ALL. I think it is their fear talking, their fear that I will give up and not seek help. they told me they feel powerless. I told them how suicidal I had been in the last couple of months. They don't want me to give up. I showed them how absolutelly hopeless I felt. They don't know what to do to help me.

 

The truth is I have carried through many months of therapy (2 in particular), many years with one (with the creep). every time I ended it, I went to my last appointment and spoke to them about it (I didn't just disappear, run away from my problems so to speak). I have also willingly gone through 4 full sessions of group therapy at different points in my past, each session lasting months.

 

If you feel like you learned what you had to learn and that you are going in circles and that this therapist has done all it could for you, stop your therapy. I don't think there are many good therapists out there. I think it's a very hard job to do well. so there's a good chance he did all he could for you. don't waste your time or money.

[1MoreChance]

Therapy ruined my life in some ways because I got too forthright with my feelings and they were used against me, thus losing my son who now lives in foster care thinking he had a good mom and didn't understand what happened. Because my thoughts didn't match my actions, and I was completely stressed by a challenging child so I relayed that information and lost him. So honestly I don't trust therapists and have refused them ever since. Although most people think I'm in therapy because I'm so level headed despite my newfound condition.

 

Jetta

 

I'm so sorry about that. I hope you'll be ok.

 

 

SuzyQ

 

thanks for your help.

 

my main problem is GAD (generalized anxiety disorder diagnosed 10 years ago), dysthimia and episodes of major depression. Also borderline traits.

[itsallgrand]

I LOVE David Burns. I used a lot of his material while going through my personal treatment with a psychiatrist.

 

To make a long story short, I'd been in and out of interviewing and trying various therapists and psychologists and for me (personally) - it was not a good experience. I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences, that's terrible and rather extreme. I want to say here that I don't want to put a black on therapy and psychologists in general (certainly has helped a lot of people), but sometimes it's wrong for what a person may be needing help with.

 

My psychiatrist had extensive training in both CBT and he had practiced as a physician for many years. The man was over 80 years old when I got in to see him; I happened to be one of his last patients he took before his retirement. That wealth of experience and knowledge helped a great deal - because, similarly to you in some regards - my therapy needed to be very nuanced. Not some chock o block work; the wrong approach and the wrong diagnosis (which I had experienced before with some horrible results previously) can screw up the whole therapeutic element.

 

I very strongly believe in thorough, extensive diagnosis and treatment planning now that I have seen what a difference that can make. Also, finding the right professional with extensive background in what it is you are dealing with. Too many times, too many professionals have been unwilling to refer when a client had needs that were beyond their expertise - just talking from experience - and guess who suffers? Not the professional who gains experience and cash of course, but the client! It's really important to take the time to find the right person with the right expertise and approach.

 

good luck . my best wishes.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

If you feel like you learned what you had to learn and that you are going in circles and that this therapist has done all it could for you, stop your therapy. I don't think there are many good therapists out there. I think it's a very hard job to do well. so there's a good chance he did all he could for you. don't waste your time or money.

 

The problem is i dont know if i learned what i had to learn .. so i decided that i'm going to give it another month .. and then i'll make a decision.

 

I really liked the idea of changing your thinking .... i am a firm believer that life is about perception .. glass half empty/full..... but i also believe there are very quiet conversations going on behind the scenes that we repeat to ourselves ... and i feel that counseling draws those conversations to the surface so you can begin examine them .. and make changes.

 

btw thanks for all the information!

[NightLily]

Jetta

 

I'm so sorry about that. I hope you'll be ok.

 

 

SuzyQ

 

thanks for your help.

 

my main problem is GAD (generalized anxiety disorder diagnosed 10 years ago), dysthimia and episodes of major depression. Also borderline traits.

 

I was originally diagnosed with dysthimia and major depression but was later told this is a bogus diagnosis and really just means you are Bipolar II. Or possibly unipolar with a low base line. I had tried SSRIs with horrible.. I repeat HORRIBLE luck. Later got on an anti seizure med: Lamictal. Has helped a lot with balancing things out. If you are interested in medications I would ask about that one with your psychiatrist.

[1MoreChance]

I was originally diagnosed with dysthimia and major depression but was later told this is a bogus diagnosis and really just means you are Bipolar II. Or possibly unipolar with a low base line. I had tried SSRIs with horrible.. I repeat HORRIBLE luck. Later got on an anti seizure med: Lamictal. Has helped a lot with balancing things out. If you are interested in medications I would ask about that one with your psychiatrist.

 

I have never had classic symptoms of mania but SSRI's (and Affexor) have had some bad side effects me, for example on Paxil I was very hyper (my mother mentionned it at the time) and on Effexor 75mg my doctor thought I wasn,t getting optimal results so se upped the dose to 117.5mg and I experienced severe anxiety within a couple of days. I had what I believe was akathesia in my sleep, very agitated sleep and constantly felt like I had to move and jerk my legs and feet around and violently toss and turn. it was awful. I lowered my dose back down to 75mg and then I was fine.

 

when I eventually weaned myself off I was dfine until I tried to wean myself off the last 37.5mg. It was really noticeable how I felt more irritable, aggressive, and how my thouths started "running around" in my head. I noticed I even started ruminating thoughts out loud where as before it had grown pretty much "quiet" in there (I DON'T mean that I hear voices BTW).

 

Maybe I should stay on 37,5mg Effexor all my life? Now I am on 200mg 5-HTP per day and aside from the nausea nothing.

 

what kinds of side effects have ou experienced? My family doctor is not gonna diagnose anything, *I* am the one who has to look up things like "akathesia" on the net because she is clueless. when I told her I experienced the akathesia symptoms, she said , that at that dose it was very unlikely. Oh well to me it did that.

 

The way David Burns describes mania in Bipolar sounds nothing like my symptoms though. He talks about impulsive acts, poor judgement, feeling really confident and euphoric, needing lsee sleep, agitation, talking incessantly, moving constantly, to name it breifly. I have none of that.

 

do you have good sources of info concerning Bipolar II? should I ever have it, it needs to be diagnosed, I can't go on going through these horrible spells. thank you very much.

[NightLily]

I have never been manic either. That is the thing about Bipolar II..to be diagnosed it you HAVE to have never been manic. What you do have to be at one point is hypomanic which can be an iffy thing to diagnose in the first place. It could manifest itself differently.

 

Low hypomania can be described as constant aggitation or a need to do this or that suddenly. Some people are angrier. You also have rapid thoughts. People with underlying BP can be pushed into this by SSRIs. When I was on Prozac, at first I became pretty OCD. Suddenly. I was obsessed with my pores to the point of my skin being constantly ripped up. As they upped the dosage though I began to be haunted by grusome images or myself dead in.. creative ways. I got hooked on a video game and played it all day every day for a few weeks. Not like me.

 

There is often some type of sleep component though.

 

Is effexor helping you enough?

 

I would stop seeing your therapist to get a better diagnoses and find a psychiatrist who can in the least help you find a med that will be more effective.

[NightLily]

Oh and I don't have the best resources .. hmmmm I have just learned slowly over time.

[1MoreChance]

actually suzyQ I have a lot of anger / irritability and thinking back through my life I HAVE had periods of elation / euphoria / intense hyperness, and even a feeling of "greatness". I remember I used to be super hyper in the way I drove and rollerbladed for example. I am starting that these were periods of hypomania...

[NightLily]

actually suzyQ I have a lot of anger / irritability and thinking back through my life I HAVE had periods of elation / euphoria / intense hyperness, and even a feeling of "greatness". I remember I used to be super hyper in the way I drove and rollerbladed for example. I am starting that these were periods of hypomania...

 

How long did you go through these mood swings? Mine lasted for about a semester but I had different symptoms. For me, I was very sexual and quite impulsive about it. I did feel aggitated and was vunerable to mental manipulation. And, I felt as though I was physically invinsible in the sense that I didn't feel pain. Also slept much less, lost a lot of weight due to working out about 2 hours a day from excess energy. It was beneficial in some ways and very damaging in others. Then in about 3 days, I fell out. I went from that to SEVERE uncomfortable 24 hour anxiety and depression which lasted again about a semester. But gradually worked my way out of it with some help from meds. This place helped me too.

 

Lamictal doesn't help too much with "up" periods. While it is a mood stablizer, it is much more so diagnosed for people who struggle with Bipolar depression. For me, it has been fairly side effect light and is weight neutral. It is a strong medication though and has to be titrated pretty slowly.

 

I'm not saying you are Bipolar or that Lamictal is a good option for you, but it is worth looking into. As far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter what you call it as long as you get the right treatment. I refuse to be labeled Bipolar (especially since BP II is totally different)but will advocate for it on here.

 

One reason I would be concerned for you, is that if it was the case, BP II has the highest suicide rate. Something like 15% who are diagnosed will kill themselves. I guess because you don't get much of an up .. just the downside lol sudden flips and severe depression can do a number on you.

 

You should probably start keeping a log of your moods to help you get properly diagnosed.

[1MoreChance]

I also had periods of sexual acting out. I don't know it's hard to know what is what. I do struggle with severe depression at this point in my life and I've been really worried about ending my life because the suicidal thoughts have been really bad. whatever happens, after those high episodes, I always crash really bad into depression. doctors have labelled it dysthimia with episodes of major depression or major depression caused by external events (I forgot what it's caled but it's a reactive maladaptive response to exterior circumstances / stress). i'd love to get rid of the depression and I was actually considering taking an antidepressant yet again (which all the health professionals always suggest) but now I am worried it's gonna make me worse (as it has before).

 

should I suggest it to the doctor that i might have Bipolar II and that I'd like to try a mood stabilizer? have you tried antidepressants and how are they different from Lamisctal? how long before you noticed an improvement in your mood and how differetnly did you feel? Does it make you drowsy?

 

ps I was proescibed Risperidone (risperdal) last year du to the severity of my depressison/ anxiety / stress. I was put on Effexor 75 mg as well. the risperdal (0,5mg, a really small dose) made me REALLY hungry and thirsty. scary stuff, it can bring on diabetes..

[NightLily]

SSRIs= altered my behavior in a negative way, made me feel dead inside. I immediately stopped have all emotion for about a month. Also, severe migraines. Everything else is up in the previous posts so yeah.

 

anti seizure meds= I don't notice I'm taking something I more feel like "myself".. before the mental break down/hospitalization. Memory problems with names and little things. But weight neautral. Increaed thirst at first though. No drowsiness. If they suggest Seroquil to go with it say NO. It is a 24 hour sleeping pill Oo. It took about 3 months to get to the desired levels. Pretty linear improvement over all.

 

Also, avoid Lithium at all costs. Only as a last resort. If you are eventually diagnosed as having a generalized mood disorder or BP II, it will probably be on the table at one point. It will slowly lower your brain functioning (my uncle has taken it his whole life so I see the effects). There are much more "eloquent" meds available now.

 

I would ask if it is a possiblity and maybe get a second opinion.

 

If you do get diagnosed though please be careful who you share the information with. Many use "Bipolar" as an insult or a catch all for crazy people (like insane exes). They don't understand it means you have mood fluctuations and can be very painful. In retrospect, I should have only shared with one of my girlfriends and my bf.

[1MoreChance]

thanks for all the precious info, It means SO much!

 

BTW birth control pill made me feel flat and emotionless (well it started with severe anxiety and moved on to major depression), which then caused me to be put on effexor, risperdal and even prescribed with ativan and a sleeping pill (never took the latter). anyway, once my bf and I broke up, I went off the birth control and within 10 days felt better - more emotion and more energy (so then that's why i went off the effexor). that was the LAST time I was majorly depressed, now it's back since a couple of weeks.

but who even knows anymore.

thansk again, I HOPE I find a solution to all my problems, honnestly the last couople of weeks have been pure HELL. (I actually don,t feel so bad today, I'm actuially worried my 5 HTP is causing somewhat of a high feeling and that it may cause problems).

[NightLily]

Hey one day at a time. Otherwise it just looks like a mountain too high to climb. If you just keep putting one foot forward, you'll get through this.

 

It is right of you to be aggressive with your treatment. One quote I really like.. is: The depths of your struggle define the heights of your success.

 

Er..

[1MoreChance]

Hey one day at a time. Otherwise it just looks like a mountain too high to climb. If you just keep putting one foot forward, you'll get through this.

 

It is right of you to be aggressive with your treatment. One quote I really like.. is: The depths of your struggle define the heights of your success.

 

Er..

 

 

 

thanks for your support

[1MoreChance]

BTW do you stay on lamictal for LIFE?

[NightLily]

BTW do you stay on lamictal for LIFE?

 

I don't know. I guess it would depend. For me, I hope to one day slowly come off of it. I have heard that people can recover from mood disorders (especially if they are triggered by life events). It isn't so bad staying on it though really. It would just feel like a personal victory.

[1MoreChance]

what do you think of this statement?

 

"... bipolar depression is more likely to involve irritability, guilt, unpredictable mood swings, and feelings of restlessness."

 

source:

 

link removed

[NightLily]

what do you think of this statement?

 

"... bipolar depression is more likely to involve irritability, guilt, unpredictable mood swings, and feelings of restlessness."

 

source:

 

link removed

 

That might be the case for some yeah. This last time I had done no planning and randomly just decided to overdose on sleeping pills.

 

I pretty much slept for too long every day, was scared of leaving my room, stayed in bed, felt like a zombie, ate too much, cried too much. Couldn't think very clearly either. Also began to wonder if I was phsycially invisble or possibly dead.

[ur02111222]

I would say that some patient/therapist relationships are not meant to be, so yes, therapy could make you worse.

 

I saw a counselor for a year and I think she helped me a lot. But really, she didn't make me better. She helped me learn how to help myself. And now I have the necessary tools to help myself and realized one day that I did not need to go back.