Signals or just wishful thinking?

[Brownstone322]

Not all that much of an update, but...

 

41 days since bomb drop.

20 days since I left my home.

03 days NC/being ignored?

 

Compare to my numbers ...

 

85 days since she told me she intended to move out

61 days since she left

54 days since we last saw each other (briefly)

51 days since we exchanged (inconsequential) e-mails

 

Since then, silence. But I understand that it's a stage we both need to go through. Psychologist Bonne Eager Weil calls it the "brush with death," and it can actually be a powerful and beneficial process if the relationship was "viable" to begin with.

[Tired Tiger]

Ah yes, I'm familiar with Bonne Eager Weil. One of the books I'm reading is "Make Up, Don't Break Up". I was under the impression, though, that the 'brush with death' was more a function of somewhat extreme circumstances such as alcoholism. I suppose it could probably still apply to less vitriolic situations, though. In any case, I just wish I had the peace of mind in knowing she was following a similar path of learning. Yes, this is all about her 'clearing her head' and 'working on herself', but to what extent that focuses on our relationship, I have no clue. I did mention to her a week or two ago that I was reading up on a couples counseling approach called "PAIRS". At least she knows I'm working on it. *shrug*

 

Brownstone, did your girl leave things with any open-ended-ness? I'm not necessarily talking at the level I've been told, but were you at least left with a rational sense of the possibility?

[Brownstone322]

Brownstone, did your girl leave things with any open-ended-ness? I'm not necessarily talking at the level I've been told, but were you at least left with a rational sense of the possibility?

Yes, very much so. She said she thought our relationship could go "full circle" (her words), and we openly talked about re-establishing a good dating relationship while living apart. (We were always happier that way.) But first she needed time alone to establish her independence.

 

No guarantees, obviously, but the one must do was to honor her request for time and space.

[90_hour_sleep]

ha...it took me awhile to get past that one. you know...i don't think time apart should ever be spent focussing on the relationship. this might sound callous...but i'm actually enjoying the perspective you're giving me. i can remember feeling pretty much how you seem to be feeling...at around the same stage 'numbers'-wise.

 

try to let the past go. it's not really important anymore. as for the future...it doesn't exist...so there's not much use sweating it. are you still feeling pretty emotional? or have you kind of found some balance?

[Tired Tiger]

ha...it took me awhile to get past that one. you know...i don't think time apart should ever be spent focussing on the relationship.

I'm not sure I can fully agree with this statement, as this depends on the individual situation, right? If there's a genuine opportunity for reconciliation - as would appear to be the case for at least Brownstone and my situations - don't the issues that contributed to the break-up need to be addressed? If some (not all, or even main priority) focus isn't placed on these issues, what would be the point of even attempting a second chance? As this applies to what I was saying about her, I was simply pondering the direction of her current 'self-help' process. In other words, if neither of us bother to put any focus at all on our relationship while apart, then what's the point of attempting reconciliation?

this might sound callous...but i'm actually enjoying the perspective you're giving me. i can remember feeling pretty much how you seem to be feeling...at around the same stage 'numbers'-wise.

Yep, well - I am only human, dude. I suppose if I were the perfect break-up expert, I would have reacted to the break-up by giving her the Terminator, "I'll be back" bit, went cold NC immediately, pounded my chest like Tarzan and started dating new women a week later. Not exactly my M.O.

try to let the past go. it's not really important anymore. as for the future...it doesn't exist...so there's not much use sweating it. are you still feeling pretty emotional? or have you kind of found some balance?

FWIW, much of what I post here is during those 'backslide' moments. Yes, there's times when the separation anxiety and irrational assumptions get the better of me - but this isn't a majority of the time by any means. I'm sure it's better that I post here to vent, as opposed to directing it her way, right? Most of the time, I know what I know, know what I want, and know what I need to do to get there. Actually feeling pretty good today, in fact.

[Brownstone322]

As this applies to what I was saying about her, I was simply pondering the direction of her current 'self-help' process. In other words, if neither of us bother to put any focus at all on our relationship while apart, then what's the point of attempting reconciliation?to get there. Actually feeling pretty good today, in fact.

This troubles me a little bit too, but I try not to dwell on it. You and I are probably over-thinking the relationship issues while, for all we know, our separated girlfriends are drinking and partying and thinking about anything but the relationship. (Mine loves to party, I know that much, and I'm certain she over-did that in the immediate post-breakup period.)

 

But these things level out. Women are actually deep thinkers, and, if you believe what psychologists say, after six or eight weeks of true separation, she begins to ponder your loss as much as you've pondered hers. And they're supposedly worse about contemplating all the wild times you might be having in her absence.

[Tired Tiger]

Yeah, B - I'm getting to the point of not over thinking that stuff. As I said, I know what I know, which is quite a bit if you consider how much communication there has been post-break up. I realized that I was feeling the worst when I was making unfounded assumptions about what she might be thinking.

[Brownstone322]

I realized that I was feeling the worst when I was making unfounded assumptions about what she might be thinking.

I'd give just about anything to know what she's really thinking, what she really wants. Fact is, she probably doesn't know either, so I'm just gonna have to try to earn my way back in.

[Tired Tiger]

Well guys, time for another update. As I mentioned, this is a very fluid/dynamic situation...

 

We had slipped into some sort of unannounced "NC" thing starting last Monday. Not fun at all. By this morning, my intuition was telling me that this NC just wasn't right, and so I initiated a text.

 

I need to listen to my intuition more often.

 

After a 3 hour call, we both understand each other better than in the last few weeks. I know what I need to work on/do, and I know what she's working on/doing. We both agreed that the honesty we give each other is more valuable than anything NC could provide. I believe we both ultimately want the same things, and that we'll at least attempt to get there together... eventually.

 

But NC isn't on that road map...

[Brownstone322]

Be very careful with this. The single most important change for you was the physical separation; you had to get away from each other. What to do now isn't so clear.

 

I'm not opposed to strategic limited contact, but many would argue (and might) that by mantaining contact, you're providing her with emotional support. But support for what, exactly? Consider that you could be helping her get over you. Don't ever lose sight of that.

 

On the other hand, separation plus limited contact may provide the healing and reassurance that're needed to put rebuilding into motion. I know that's what you want, but always try to look for signs of the opposite. If she begins to date, for instance, that would be a telling sign. (And I guarantee you that her onlline support group of bitter female rejects is encouraging her to do just that.)

 

Update on Me

 

In parallel, I, as you know, have been maintaining no contact. I think you read my original thread, so you know my story. I've done all the right things (after the panic period, which is funny to me now), but one thing has always haunted me: Did she really leave for "time and space and contemplation"? I've been pondering that so much because my only other experiences of girlfriends leaving (long ago) were strictly for other guys. They'd put up with a lot until they had a new guy in the wings, and then -- and only then -- would they take any action; they didn't have the backbone to simply do it for themselves.

 

So, this time around, I had to wonder: Did she (current very-long-term girlfriend) actually leave for another guy and hide what was really going on? Could she have been as gutless as the others?

 

Well, I'm no NC superman, and I speculate as much as the next guy, so I went down and saw her brother again (in confidence). He tells me there's no indication of anyone else. The family was together for their mother's birthday (early April) and again Easter weekend, and if she had someone else, everyone would definitely know by now. Turns out this girl does have backbone, which I've really always known she did.

 

This means the issues are exactly what she said they were (I won't restate them here), and they can be overcome. Anyone who's been through a breakup involving a third party knows that it's impossible to reason with someone who's infatuated with a new lover -- they're blinded by the honeymoon period. There's nothing you can do or say that will register.

 

Now that I'm certain that that's not the case, I can put that out of my mind and focus completely on the real issues, which I can damn well fix. (Well, there's an evil sister involved, and that's significant, but I'll describe that situation in a new thread.)

[Tired Tiger]

Hey Brownstone. I have to say, my girl is nothing if not full of surprises. The conversation I mentioned in my last post was less about any emotional support and more about understanding where each other were at. It was extremely productive, though not necessarily about our relationship, specifically. It's ironic that you mention this:

If she begins to date, for instance, that would be a telling sign. (And I guarantee you that her onlline support group of bitter female rejects is encouraging her to do just that.)

We had another discussion last night. In part of that, she specifically stated (a FWIW moment) that not one of her friends has suggested that she date anyone else at all. This was an unprovoked statement. I have to say, with the things she's working on - dating is the last thing on her mind (I'm 100% certain of this). I also believe I'm first priority when that time comes. The surprise for me last night was that she suddenly went right to the core of our relationship as a topic. She has a bit of resentment over a particular issue, but is VERY interested in discussing it. So, at least for now, we're away from the small talk and flirty stuff and getting at the heart of the matter - in a mature and caring manner. I'm all for that. A woman friend of mine thinks my girl is actually a very smart cookie, and that while this may all seem drastic, that there's a specific means to and end going on here. I'm still soaking up that idea.

 

As for you - It must be a relief to not have to over-think the "other guy" idea. Trust me, that would be a real monkey wrench in the works. I can't say I have any ideas as to when you should break NC, but I admire your will power in using NC as a means to reconciliation. 6 days for me and I was a wreck. lol.

[Brownstone322]

We had another discussion last night. In part of that, she specifically stated (a FWIW moment) that not one of her friends has suggested that she date anyone else at all. This was an unprovoked statement. I have to say, with the things she's working on - dating is the last thing on her mind (I'm 100% certain of this). I also believe I'm first priority when that time comes.

I'm elated to have been wrong about that. It's awful to have people you don't even know lined up against you. Maybe those friends fall into the "all men are scum" camp, so they don't recommend rebound dating. (Hey, these people exist.) I still don't think any of them are exactly in your corner, though, if you know what I'm sayin'.

 

The surprise for me last night was that she suddenly went right to the core of our relationship as a topic. She has a bit of resentment over a particular issue, but is VERY interested in discussing it. So, at least for now, we're away from the small talk and flirty stuff and getting at the heart of the matter - in a mature and caring manner. I'm all for that.

I can tell it's personal, but maybe you might consider sharing that issue with us. I think I've developed into a skilled relationship counselor. (OK, maybe not.)

 

A woman friend of mine thinks my girl is actually a very smart cookie, and that while this may all seem drastic, that there's a specific means to and end going on here. I'm still soaking up that idea.

Women are deep thinkers, no doubt about that. Women have "strategies" too, and I have always thought that mine has had a strategy from Day 1. She is very smart.

 

As for you - It must be a relief to not have to over-think the "other guy" idea. Trust me, that would be a real monkey wrench in the works. I can't say I have any ideas as to when you should break NC, but I admire your will power in using NC as a means to reconciliation. 6 days for me and I was a wreck. lol.

Thanks. I feel better -- and immeasurably more confident -- knowing that I'm "only" up against the scars of our own relationship and not some swinging diick with a temporary spell on my better half. My challenge is great enough without some outsider complicating the mix. ('Course I haven't discussed the sister yet, and that's a sticky wicket.)

 

NC 65 days, not including one brief meeting for the cat's sake and a pointless exchange of e-mails. Fifty-five days of absolute NC. It is indeed a strong therapy.

[Tired Tiger]

I can tell it's personal, but maybe you might consider sharing that issue with us. I think I've developed into a skilled relationship counselor. (OK, maybe not.)

If you're game, I can explain further in a PM...

[Brownstone322]

Definitely 'tween you and me.

 

I think my story is "out there," except for the influence of the evil sister, and I'm gonna get around to that in due course.

[Tired Tiger]

Ok - sent, though my PM thing say 0 sent...