Signals or just wishful thinking?

[90_hour_sleep]

couldn't agree more. there's no road to feeling better if you don't break the emotional bond...at least temporarily. obviously she's having a hard time...hence the calls and the texts and whatnot. doesn't really sound like she's taking the whole 'time and space' thing seriously at this point. if she's not going to take the time...then what's the point of being in this situation.

have to start somewhere...it won't get any easier...but the sooner you do start, the sooner you can get on with your life...and the sooner you two may be able to come to an understanding.

[Brownstone322]

Tired Tiger:

 

I don't want you to think that we've turned against you or that we're taunting you, because we're not. We're really trying to help you. (Your situation is a bit odd, though, I will concede that much.) Look, I actually track my milestone dates in Excel:

 

Days since she told me she wanted to move out: 77

Days since she actually moved out: 53

Days since she last saw each other (very brielfy): 46

Days since we had any communication (e-mail): 43

 

You could say that I've been in LC for 53 days and strict NC for 43. I'm no Iron Man, but those are some pretty-good numbers.

 

So what's the point of all this? It's that I recognize our need (my need) for time apart to think and reflect, and I know now that I'm all the better for having stayed away. I have no idea whether she even thinks about me, let alone misses me or reflects on our relationship, but that's beyond my control and always has been. That's not really the point. The real point is that there's zero chance she'll re-evaluate her feelings toward our relationship unless I take the last vestiges of that relationship away. Strange but true.

 

In your case, you were stuck in limbo living with her for some time, which must have been trying. (I was in the same situation for about three weeks in late-January/early-February, until she left, and it sucked.) I can understand that you think you need the little contacts from her (phone calls and text messages) to help maintain your sanity, but all that does is provide her with emotional support for dealling with a decision that she made against your wishes. You may get some comfort from continued contact, but the real benefactor is her and her current agenda.

 

Cut her off now! I know it sounds harsh, but you have to do this. She is not gonna suddenly call you and ask for you to come home, not under the current circumstances where you continue to offer emotional support. You need to go your own way while she goes hers. I know that sounds counterintuitive, and I know that it incurs the risk of losing her forever, but it's a risk you must take.

 

But keep in mind that it's a calculated risk. In relationships like ours, with long-term bonds not marred by infidelity or abuse, the odds are on our sides. But you have to be willing to throw the dice before you look for the payoff.

[Tired Tiger]

Nah, Brownstone, I don't take anything here as mean or taunting. I've just been thinking - a lot - about all of this. As you said, this situation is a bit odd (that's kind of an understatement, actually). I feel much better today, but I'll admit that's because we talked a bit last night (mostly small talk). Now, without getting into game playing, what I want is what my woman friend told me... that she (ex) doesn't really know what it means to fully miss me. And yes - I want her to feel the full extent of her decision. Unfortunately, cutting her off cold turkey is easier said than done. You know... that risk thing. I've been in 6 previous 'exclusive' relationships-breakups. I went total NC after all of them. Only one had an attempt at reconciliation, and that was ten years later - and initiated by me. And it didn't work.

 

I dunno. It's like that saying, "If you love something, set it free..." - but what if you open your hands and let the dove go... and it just lands back on your head?

 

I know... I'm workin' on it...

[Brownstone322]

Dude, it's been a couple days ... give us all an update for our sanity.

 

Are you in NC yet? Remember, it's gotta get worse before it gets better, and this is the path we must travel to get where we hope to go.

[Tired Tiger]

Well, that last call (Tuesday night) was last contact. So... day 3. This isn't any grand, announced NC - in fact the last thing we talked about was about her being cool with contact, but here we are. I'm just laying low, I guess, and concentrating on the work situation, connecting with friends, family, and colleagues, and reading my psych books. Admittedly, I still feel myself getting sick from missing her so much, but that's going to subside (I would hope). Those damned dreams though...

 

Brownstone, you mentioned in your thread that you fully intended to break 'NC' at some point - I assume for the purpose of feeling out reconciliation. By what are you going to determine when and how this happens? Just curious.

[90_hour_sleep]

Well, that last call (Tuesday night) was last contact. So... day 3. This isn't any grand, announced NC - in fact the last thing we talked about was about her being cool with contact, but here we are. I'm just laying low, I guess, and concentrating on the work situation, connecting with friends, family, and colleagues, and reading my psych books. Admittedly, I still feel myself getting sick from missing her so much, but that's going to subside (I would hope). Those damned dreams though...

 

Brownstone, you mentioned in your thread that you fully intended to break 'NC' at some point - I assume for the purpose of feeling out reconciliation. By what are you going to determine when and how this happens? Just curious.

 

i still get that sick feeling sometimes. it's been about 3 months since i had any genuine sort of contact. for the most part...it's not nearly as extreme.

just have to accept it as a not-so-pleasant part of your life right now. i've learned to appreciate the simplest things in my day-to-day life...i know it's helping in the grand scheme of things.

 

does the future make you anxious?

[Tired Tiger]

does the future make you anxious?

Yes, though I try to be an optimist.

[Brownstone322]

Brownstone, you mentioned in your thread that you fully intended to break 'NC' at some point - I assume for the purpose of feeling out reconciliation. By what are you going to determine when and how this happens? Just curious.

OK, this'll take a little explaining. Let me say first that, yes, I do intend to break NC, and, yes, I have my reasons. Each situation is different, and the participants are different, so I have to do what I think is best in my case.

 

That said, be aware that I have ... wait for it ...

 

A strategy

I say that with such drama because I think it's the one place where you and I differ most. I've been thinking strategically for almost two months now, where you seem to be suffering and looking for answers. The answer should be in your strategy.

 

In my case, my girlfriend moved out in mid-February partly because she wanted to be on her own. She wanted to live downtown in a "cool" apartment in a "cool" district, and she wanted to have complete control over her domestic life. Fair enough. So, in those first few weeks (probably more like a month) she was, no doubt, busy settling in and establishing her new day-to-day and social routines. That period was no time for me to be talking about our relationship, and conventional wisdom is that I should be giving her time and space during that period anyway. Any contact would simply have made matters worse.

 

So I decided to stay away (not as easy as it sounds), and, in the interim, did all the right things:

 

I modified my diet and intensified my workout routines and, to my surprise, dropped about 10 pounds while toning up. (Turns out group cycling, or "spinning," has tremendous benefits.)

I focused on the last semester of my master's-degree program, which is especially challenging. (And, yes, in the immediate panic phase, I had considered dropping my final research-project class until next year.)

I made significant decor changes to the house, including new hardwood floors, new artwork, new drapes, new blinds and a few pieces of new furniture.

I went to the dentist and had my teeth cleaned (which was overdue), and I bought a whitening kit. My teeth look awesome.

I bought lots of new clothes.

In other words, I focused on me. When the time comes, I won't have to verbalize that I've moved on or changed; everything about me -- my body, my clothes, my house -- will all say, "He's carrying on with his life." Because I am. On the other hand -- and this is equally important -- there're some other things I've been doing during this period:

 

I've been thinking hard about our relationship. I've been thinking hard about what needs to change and how those changes can come about and how certain things can never be allowed to happen again. I've been examining the root causes.

I've allowed my own anger and disillusionment over the breakup (and I had plenty) to subside.

Now, to answer your question ... when will I know it's the right time to renew contact with her? It'll be the "right time" when I feel comfortable and confident (and I think I'm there), and when I think she's had enough time to come down from the period of intense emotions that she was experiencing in January and February. (She and I go way back; we have enough good times and good feelings to crush the burn-out period that broke our relationship.) On the other hand, I don't want to wait too long, either. Even now, she probably thinks I quit caring, because I know my long period of silence has come as a surprise to her. The time to cautiously test the waters ... is coming soon.

 

But even then, the phase of renewed contact will be strategic. I've put a lot of thought into what to do and what to say, and even more thought on what not to do and what not to say. That's not to imply that I have a formula or a script (I like to think on my feet), but I have a framework from within which to work.

 

Hard-core advocates of NC would argue that I shouldn't be breaking NC at all, that I should wait her out indefinitely. I see the logic, but they don't know my girlfriend. She's introverted, naturally insecure, and unbelievably stubborn. My best guess is that she'd never call. (We've had spats of two or three weeks duration in the past, before we lived together, and I always had to "blink" first. Why? Because she'd say later, "I thought you hated my guts ... I didn't think you'd ever want to speak to me again.")

 

On the other hand, it is possible, I suppose, that she just doesn't care what I'm up to anymore, that she has moved on without me. But I know it's more likely that, in her mind, she's convinced herself that my feelings have switched from hurt to wrath. She probably thinks that I'm now courting a bevy of 21-year-old hotties and that I'm daring her to call me so I can shove it all in her face. That sounds bizarre, I know, but that's how she thinks.

 

Wrapping up ...

 

None of this is to say that my strategy will work. It's difficult to know what another person really wants, especially when the other person is undergoing changes as well. This will take time. But I'm damn well gonna take my shot, and, afterward, regardless of the outcome, I'm going to be able to look back and say that I attempted to repair my broken relationship the right way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Tired Tiger]

Thanks for the very detailed post, Brownstone. I have a booked-up weekend with family and friends, but I'll be commenting further on your thoughts this evening.

 

On an unrelated thought - it's occurred to me that she (my she), with all her internet savvy, could very well be reading this thread. *shrug* I dunno... but day 4 of silence.

[90_hour_sleep]

i have one question for you, brownstone. have you been able to really explore your emotional problems? you mentioned anger and disillusionment.

you kind of glossed over that part...and it seems important. for what it's worth, i believe that regardless of the other steps you've taken to positively influence a reconciliation, if you haven't fully come to an understanding of those problems (and more importantly, a conclusion about what it means), the possibility of you slipping into the same position seems likely.

 

i'm only suggesting this because your strategy (including the proactive steps you've already taken) seems strikingly similar to my own line of thought these days (although i haven't gone so far as to actually formulate a strategy in words). for myself, the difference lies in the fact that i'm determind to discover the root of my own emotional problems (and obviously find a way to deal with them positively). i know that these problems are what ultimately lead to my own breakup. this may be where our relationships differ. perhaps there doesn't need to be the same emphasis on those areas for you. or, maybe you just chose not to divulge the details.

 

just a thought.

[Brownstone322]

Hmmmmmm ... fair questions, 90_hour_sleep, but I think that, in glossing over the anger part, I might have misrepresented what I meant.

 

By anger and disillusionment, I was referring to my reaction to the breakup. I think it's perfectly natural for the "dumpee" to feel a sense of anger and betrayal along the lines of, "How could you make this decision affecting both of us without discussing it with me first?!" Everyone, I think, would experience a period of anger and an urge for revenge: She did, after all, leave me all alone in the house, left the entire mortgage and utilities in my lap, left the pets behind (cats that she "loves"), drove off in a nice car that I had given her, and left me in an emotionally shaken state when I was trying to finish grad school. I have good reason to be angry, right?

 

Well ... sure ... but it's not as though she didn't have her reasons too; let's not lose sight of that. And that's what I was referring to -- getting past the immediate post-breakup anger. More to the point, I won't be able to reconnect with her (nor she with me) until we let the angry emotions go. Unless you're an angry person in general (and she and I are not), these kinds of emotions do not persist. But they certainly can get in the way for a while.

 

I didn't mean to imply that our relationship was filled with anger and disillusionment, because it wasn't. We got bored and became mired in bickering and petty arguments, but that's hardly the same thing. She came to resent the lack of attention that I was giving her over an extended period, and eventually that built up over time to a level that she couldn't tolerate anymore. These are the "root causes" I was referring to, and that is where I've focused my thoughts during our downtime.

[Tired Tiger]

Hey guys. Brownstone, again - thanks for the very concise answer/post. I can imagine what a test of willpower and patience this process has been for you. Under the circumstances, I don't know what more logical approach you could have taken thus far. I think we're actually on similar pages with respect to doing things for ourselves, as well as the examination of relationship specifics. Without meaningful retrospect and introspect, any future reconciliation is doomed to repeat the past mistakes.

 

That having been said, I'm in the same place as 90 in regards to not having a written manifesto. My situation has been way too fluid to rush to specific decisions, and though I do have the occasional emotional setback, I'm getting to a stability and understanding in my own way. Rather than a specific 'strategy', I have an evolving process towards a specific set of goals. It may not be easy, and doesn't follow any of the "norms" for this break-up business, but how much is 'normal' about my situation to start with?

 

(more thoughts this afternoon...)

[90_hour_sleep]

brownstone,

 

gotcha...just thought i'd ask. i think the position you were left in is pretty common. there's never a good time. we all have our own bag of * * * * .

[Tired Tiger]

Hey guys - turning into a much busier weekend that previously anticipated (a good thing). I'll have more of an update and feedback tomorrow. In short, as much as I agree with the concepts of NC in the majority of cases, I'm (we're) not on board with it in this situation right now. There's several valid reasons for this, which I'll explain later. Hope everyone is enjoying their day!

[cl76]

Good on ya Brownstone. I've been doing what you have: ditch the useless obsessive bereavement syndrome and go STRATEGIC.

 

In the last month since my break up I have:

 

Had very limited contact with my Ex

Wrote all my negative feelings down to "get them out" of the system

Exercised every day hard core - lost 7kgs so far

Change my diet completely to water and small healthy meals (6-7 times a day)

Read books on relationships

Tossed out all my old clothes and bought a new wardrobe

Had my teeth cleaned

Got a haircut

Started DATING new women - I cannot stress enough how GOOD this makes me feel

Going on a holiday to celebrate my new life and success without her

Caught up with old friends I hadnt seen in ages

Starting playing guitar again

 

 

Spending time on yourself is the best thing you can do to win back your Ex at some point later (2-3 months), or to simply move on.

[Brownstone322]

That's a great course of action, cl. It hardly guarantees success with our breakups, but these kinda things can only help. We're not angry, we're not in denial over our shortcomings, we're feeling good and we're looking good. It's "investment" no matter how you look at it.

 

I don't have a crystal ball, but I suspect that, in the long run, this period of separation may actually turn out to be one of the best things to have happened to me in a long time.

[cl76]

...

 

I don't have a crystal ball, but I suspect that, in the long run, this period of separation may actually turn out to be one of the best things to have happened to me in a long time.

 

Mate I couldnt agree more

[90_hour_sleep]

That's a great course of action, cl. It hardly guarantees success with our breakups, but these kinda things can only help. We're not angry, we're not in denial over our shortcomings, we're feeling good and we're looking good. It's "investment" no matter how you look at it.

 

I don't have a crystal ball, but I suspect that, in the long run, this period of separation may actually turn out to be one of the best things to have happened to me in a long time.

 

that's the spirit. regardless of where the relationship ends up...you've enabled yourself to move on with your own life and be a healthier individual.

[Tired Tiger]

Not a whole lot to update, guys. Just gettin' by day to day. This isn't an easy situation at all, but I do believe I'm getting to a better place - all things considered. I know I have a more thorough understanding of everything that's happened (a plus to maintaining contact to this point), and what things are most important in working on myself. It's helped that I've spent considerable time talking with women friends and family lately - some very enlightening perspectives indeed. FWIW, none of them (8 so far) are 'on board' with the NC idea unless things change in some significant way (like another guy - still not even close to being an issue).

 

What I'm trying to do right now is bite my tongue with the emotional/relationship talk. She's not anywhere near that zone at the moment (and very sick, too), but I'll admit that it's tough to alter that train of thought. It's all I've ever known how to be with her. Still, I'm feeling better and able to focus more clearly on what I need to do both for myself and for a 'strategy'. Baby steps. Patience...

[Brownstone322]

We're right there with you, man.

 

I had a talk with a friend today, someone who's detached from my situation and hence relatively objective, and he got me to agree to extend my "break NC" date beyond what I had planned. It might be a while yet, but I actually feel good about it.

 

Even if you're not in NC, you can back off entirely from any kind of relationship talk and let this thing play out.

[Tired Tiger]

I had a talk with a friend today, someone who's detached from my situation and hence relatively objective, and he got me to agree to extend my "break NC" date beyond what I had planned. It might be a while yet, but I actually feel good about it.

What criteria are you going to be using in deciding when to do this? I'm assuming you've heard nothing from her during your NC? Third party info?

 

I've also gotten great perspective from friends and family (particularly women) who are detached from my situation. Funny, all of the initial reactions were that of bewilderment. After a bit of thought, though - all came to the same conclusion as to the primary reasons for this and what I need to focus on (which for potential privacy sake - not tipping my hand - I'll not be specific about). Most also seem to be amazed that I'm not absolutely livid over the position she's put me in. Well, I've had a few moments of being a bit angry (to myself) - but I simply love her too much to not try and understand, instead of just writing her off in resentment... if that makes sense.

Even if you're not in NC, you can back off entirely from any kind of relationship talk and let this thing play out.

Things are actually getting to the point where I have little choice but to do just that. The dynamic has changed over the past week or so. Granted, she's been very sick (pneumonia - a result of that 4-day fest the weekend before last), so I've taken that into consideration, but the initiation of contact has shifted from 90% her to 100% me. Also, she's become dead quiet and changes the subject if emotions or our relationship comes up. The flirt/sex texts are apparently not a part of the program anymore, either. The thing is, this dynamic change wasn't announced or anything - just her walls suddenly up and I have to discover this for myself. We talked yesterday, but a couple of fun, goofy texts by me last night have gone unanswered. That does bother me, but I'm also not killing myself trying to figure out why.

 

I guess the contact/content ball is in her court (as it's apparently been since D-Day). The only thing I'm relatively sure of at this point is that she has not changed her stance that the door is still open for us in the future. All I can do now is let her do whatever it is she's doing, and work on what I need to do for myself to be prepared for... whatever, whenever.

[Brownstone322]

What criteria are you going to be using in deciding when to do [break NC]? I'm assuming you've heard nothing from her during your NC? Third party info?

I'm trying not to make your thread about me. Howeva ...

 

Mostly it's just "feel." She wants and needs space, and I have been careful to give her just that. But not forever -- at some point I'm gonna go get my girl and make things right.

 

On the other hand, the friend I referred to (with the objective viewpoint) recommended a little more time. My girlfriend asked for time and space, after all, and, of all things, one doesn't wanna dishonor that basic request. (She was actually afraid I was gonna stalk her after she moved out ... which is absurd in the extreme, and anyone who knows me would tell you so; that just demonstrates that she was driven entirely by emotion during the breakup period.) So I wanna give her time ... just not too much time. Tricky call. Plus I decided to finish my final semester of grad school -- a nightmare unto itself -- before dealing with her. Quite frankly, I don't even have time to deal with her properly now, and it's actually been a perfect time for a separation.

 

Meanwhile, I've talked with her brother (and will again), and he says there's no indication of another guy, and there's zero evidence that she actually split because of a secret lover on the side. (That woulda changed everything, obviously.) I don't much care about any new hookups she may or may not have had since the split; I know her extremely well, and that's just not gonna go anywhere.

 

But finally, keep in mind that she and I openly talked about starting over -- given time -- before she left. There was never a "done means done" proclaimation. There was and is lots of hope, and I'm almost guaranteed a fair shot. The question, of course, is when and how that comes about.

 

Most also seem to be amazed that I'm not absolutely livid over the position she's put me in. Well, I've had a few moments of being a bit angry (to myself) - but I simply love her too much to not try and understand, instead of just writing her off in resentment... if that makes sense.

I've spent some time pondering my anger too -- it's both normal, not to mention, in our cases, perfectly legitimate. So ponder it thoroughly and at length. Then let it go. Passing through the anger phase (alone, where it can't do any more damage) is one of the best functions of separation.

 

I guess the contact/content ball is in her court (as it's apparently been since D-Day). The only thing I'm relatively sure of at this point is that she has not changed her stance that the door is still open for us in the future. All I can do now is let her do whatever it is she's doing, and work on what I need to do for myself to be prepared for... whatever, whenever.

Wait it out for a while. A quiet month or two might work wonders.

[DaveTrump]

go nc for 2 months - you'll be a new man at the end of it! by all means answer any calls she might initiate, but keep it light hearted and happy. do things for you and enjoy your freedom. You will prove to yourself that change is eventually for the best. and don't forget to wish her all the best before you leave.

 

be a man and good luck.

[Tired Tiger]

-- at some point I'm gonna go get my girl and make things right.

Heh... I like that. For some reason I had the big scene from "An Officer And a Gentleman" run through my head.

 

Me - though I don't like Tom Cruise, I was thinking the scene from "Jerry Maguire"... "I'm not letting you get rid of me. How about that?".

 

Of course, this isn't the movies, so.

go nc for 2 months - you'll be a new man at the end of it! by all means answer any calls she might initiate, but keep it light hearted and happy. do things for you and enjoy your freedom. You will prove to yourself that change is eventually for the best. and don't forget to wish her all the best before you leave.

 

be a man and good luck.

I may not be defining anything like NC, LC, CC, or BCC, but I know that I have no desire to push her if she's in "cave" mode from me. I have sooo much to do, anyway...

[Tired Tiger]

Not all that much of an update, but...

 

41 days since bomb drop.

20 days since I left my home.

03 days NC/being ignored?

 

Can't say I understand this latest twist of ignoring me, but here we are.

 

On the plus side - things are looking positive on the career front, I've had meaningful re-connections with friends and family, and have been able to sort out what I need to work on in terms of this relationship. I still can't say I fully understand her drastic (and yes - selfish...) course of action, but am slowly finding some acceptance.

 

On the down side, I still find myself struggling with the separation anxiety. It's hard enough to miss her (brutal), but I also feel torn away from my home... family... life. Pretty much everything in this world that matters to me. On this issue... it's still baby steps for me.