The baby debate

[white lily]

Hey guys, I'm only new at the forum so please bear with me if I have trouble expressing myself properly...

 

My boy and I have been together for nearly 5 years and while everything is mostly okay, we have been having issues lately and after a fews days of discussion it pretty much boils down to our difference of opinion? (not sure if thats the right word for what is happening) when it comes to starting a family.

 

He is 29 and wants to settle down and start a family in the next few years which I completley understand because I would like to be still relatively young too, however I am only 24 and just am not ready for a family yet.

 

I went straight from school to university and am only just finishing this year so feel as though I have yet to achieve so much more in life. I want desperately to go travelling first, something I have been dreaming about for as long as I can remember. For me, travel is not just a holiday, it is a lifestyle choice and and the oportunity to experience something so amazing and truly appreciate how lucky you are, something I am not willing to just give up on as it is a dream which has pretty much defined me as a person as I grew up on stories of my parents travel adventures.

 

He is wiling to come with me, but does not want to go to all the places I do and wants to be back home to start a family by the time he is "32 at the latest" and I just don't think I will be ready by then, or will only just be starting to consider it. I don't have a set timeline for this thing but I do know I'm not ready and I don't want to bring a child into this world until I am because when I do, I want to be the best mother I can be.

 

He thinks I'm being selfish by asking him to wait as his biggest goal in life is and always was to be a father and just can't understand how important it is to me to follow through with my dreams first. I just don't know where to draw the line between being selfish and doing what is right for me as its not that I don't want a family, just not as soon as him, nor do I think it is fair of him to ask me to do something Im not ready for or to compromise my dreams for it.

 

This is a make or break argument for our relationship and I honestly don't knwo what to do or if I am being unreasonable and I would greatly appreciate any opinions or insights.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Many people think they know what they want a few years down the line but they really don't. He thinks he wants children by age 32, you think in three years you won't be anywhere near being ready.

 

But has he actually travelled? He might discover that he likes it a lot once you two embark on that lifestyle for a while. How long do you want to travel?

 

Couples just get too excited about setting these hard lines for their relationship. He's not even ready to have children right now. In three years people can change a lot. You two aren't even married yet, so isn't this putting the cart before the horse? I suggest that you both calm down about it for a while...like 1.5 years, and see where you both are then.

[uofagirl]

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. You simply aren't at a point in your life where you want a baby and that's ok. You can't just give up your life and your dreams to fufill his. And that doesn't mean you don't love him.

 

 

This seems to be an issue in lots of relationships more and more often.

 

If you two want this to work you've got to come to some sort of compormise and meet in the middle if at all possible.

 

You two aren't even married yet.

[DN]

Neither of you are being unreasonable - it's just that you want different things at different times. And if you can't reach a compromise or agreement then you may have to part ways. But that won't be because either of you is at fault or is selfish.

[scorpio47]

My best advice is not to give in completely. Talk it over and see if a compromise can be reached. I was in a similar situation and just gave in completely...big mistake that I have regretted to this day...

[white lily]

You two aren't even married yet, so isn't this putting the cart before the horse?

 

I don't think so at all, whilst the not being married part is one of our issues, I would much rather discuss this (family vs travelling) now and make sure we are on the same wavelength before making that sort of commitment. Same goals are pretty crucial to a happy marriage don't you think?

 

I am terrified of waking up in 10 years time and wondering what happened to my life, and we are that stage in our relationship where we are either going to do this and its going to be forever, or we are going to part ways, which I really don't want to do as he is a great guy but I am just not sure how this is all going to play out. If it is the end though I want to walk away knowing that I did everything I could to find a solution and it wasn't caused by me being unreasonable.

 

Thanks for the input all of you.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Well I definitely don't think you're being unreasonable. And I also do not advise marrying someone without having reached a compromise or decision regarding the issue of children, so please don't get me wrong.

 

What I am really saying is that you both will have to compromise and that both parties need to be very real about it. Sometimes people make things into an issue that aren't real and don't have to be figured out right this minute. I invite you to decide if that is the case here. If you already know the answer, then please disregard.

 

Why does he want to have the children prior to age 32? He sounds uber-ready, a little strangely so. Honestly, if you two don't work out, and he's 29 now, it's not too likely he's going to get over you and your five year relationship, court someone new, marry them, do the engagement period then the wedding, and pop out a child within the next three years. If anyone is being a little unreasonable, I'm going to say it's him, not you, and he should probably relax and rethink that goal a bit.

[Rabican]

I think the best way to handle this is to just be brutally honest with him.

 

Honey I love you, but I am just not anywhere near ready to have children. Someday, yes. but I do not have a date in my head, and theres a lot of things I want to do BEFORE I have kids. You are not the only one in this relationship, and you are certainly not the one to carry a child to term inside of your body. So if you cannot wait for me to be ready, and I dont know how long that will be... then its best you move on and find someone else who wants kids by the time you are 32.

 

Having kids is a HUGE deal... I know because my fiance and I just had one. We didnt want one, but now that we have him I wouldnt trade him for anything. I just cant wait until hes old enough to go fishing!!

 

But if one of you pushes this on the other theres probably a 90% chance that will cause resentment, and all sorts of conflicts between you. Thats not the sort of situation you want to willingly bring a child into.

 

So if his timetable is more important to him than his partner with whom he wants to share that experience with... then maybe its best he find a willing baby maker and settle down with her.

[white lily]

Thanks for all your advice guys, the biggest problem is when I try to tell him how I feel he see's it as me being selfish because he doesn't feel the same way and seems to expect me to do all the compromising and then I get upset because he just doesn't seem to be able to understand where I'm coming from.

I've been thinking about it alot the last few days and I'm thinking I might write him a letter to tell him exactly how I feel, what I want and what things I am willing to compromise on and what I'm not, give it to him and ask him to take a few days to think about it all and then we can discuss it.

Do you think this is an okay approach?

[Rabican]

Id maybe write it down just so that you have what you want to say in front of you... the heat of the moment in a big deal conversation you may mis state what you want to say, or leave out your key points.

 

Write it down, but have a heart to heart talk.

 

Let him know that having a child only takes one person, thats you. You are the one carrying the little rugrat around for 9 months. So you had better be ready if you are going to be happy about this. Raising a child in a relationship takes two of you.

 

Dont let him pressure you into making a choice on this if you are not ready. You are ready when you are ready and thats the bottom line. If his schedule doesnt sync with yours... then he has three choices. Either deal with it, or hope you change your mind, or meet someone new. Court them, hope they want kids by the time hes 32. Then marry them and have their kid... not likely.

[TheSmilingTurnip]

Thanks for all your advice guys, the biggest problem is when I try to tell him how I feel he see's it as me being selfish because he doesn't feel the same way and seems to expect me to do all the compromising and then I get upset because he just doesn't seem to be able to understand where I'm coming from.

I've been thinking about it alot the last few days and I'm thinking I might write him a letter to tell him exactly how I feel, what I want and what things I am willing to compromise on and what I'm not, give it to him and ask him to take a few days to think about it all and then we can discuss it.

Do you think this is an okay approach?

 

That might help. Only you really can know.

 

On the selfish thing -- it's more selfish to have kids just to keep a relationship when you know you don't really want them yet. It's more selfish to manipulate someone into it by labelling them as selfish, it's more selfish to stomp your fit and ball up your fists and throw a fit than it is to compromise.

 

The way this is going sounds a little funny to me. Does he think that children will fulfill his happy family fantasy?

[white lily]

Rabican, perhaps I didn't make myself clear, I do intend to have a heart to heart, after I have given him the letter and he's had time to think about it. What is in the letter is not necessarily anything new but rather what I don't feel I conveyed clearly in our last few discussions (this has been going on the last few days).

Smiling Turnip, I honestly think he believes this and knowing his family and how large and close they are it actually does make sense, he just seems to be having troubel realising that not everyone feels the same way his family does and there is more to life than settling down and having a family, not that there is anything wrong with wanting that but I'm just not ready for it yet.

 

I have come to the conclusion that I am NOT compromising when it comes to having a family, I will do it, but when I am ready, as like has been mentioned I am the one that needs to grow another human being and bring it into the world and I am the one that has to deal with all the other things that go with that so I need to be emotionally and mentally ready and if he is not prepared to accept that then I guess I'll just have to deal with it

 

Anyway thanks for all the advice guys, just hope I am strong enough to see this through to the end now, whatever that should be.

[DN]

I think you have the right to decide when you want to start a family and not compromise if that is how you feel. But I also think that you should recognise his right to feel the way that he does and not to think badly of him if he decides to walk away and try to find someone who is ready when he is.

 

Your reasons for wanting to wait to have children are as valid, but no more valid, than his reasons to move more quickly. No partner has the right to impose those choices on the other - or to criticise them for theirs. It is not a question of right and wrong but two rights - and if they cannot be reconciled in any way then either partner has the right to walk away without being thought badly of in any way.

[white lily]

Thanks for you thoughts DN, I can see what your saying, indeed have thought alot about it the last few days and if he were to walk away I would not think badly of him, only sad that I lost him.

 

I completely understand where he is coming from and why it is so important to him, and I don't begrudge him that, I do begrudge him telling me I'm being selfish for wanting to wait as I am trying to understand his side of the story but don't feel he understands mine.

 

what you have said is part the reason I posted here, not because I wanted someone to tell me I was right or wrong, but if they they thought I was being unreasonable in saying I wanted to wait because often when you are trying to judge your own actions its hard to tell.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Neither of you is unreasonable, you just want different things right now. No couple will survive for long if they don't learn to negotiate difficult problems.

 

Rationally, a solution would be that you travel a couple year less than you wanted, and he have kids a couple years later than he wanted (say at 34 rather than 32). So you have 5 years to travel, which should be enough to get the travel bug out of your system. You'll be approaching 30 then, which really is the best time to have kids from a biological perspective, since many women can have trouble having them after 30, and lots of trouble after 35.

[white lily]

Well be strong be happy you would think that would be logical, I DO want kids before I'm 30 but that is still 7 years away. I would even be happy to commit to trying to START a family in the next 5 years, but 3 is just too soon and I definitely wont do it till Im ready.

 

Although I am beginning to wonder if he is just trying to push me to see how far he can go as we had another discussion on the topic last night and after telling me the otherday that the travel issue is irrelevant, yesterday he seemed to put all the emphasis on it and barely even mentioned the family within his time line thing.

Rather he told me that I wanted to travel everywhere and didn't give a s*** about him and I don't think of the relationship only myself.

I don't know maybe I'm crazy but it seems to me we can come to a compromise on this quite easily without either of us giving up what they want but everytime we get close to it he focuses on something else or twists my words to make it sound like Im asking him to give up what he wants....

[DN]

You are asking him to give up what he wants. And from his perspective you wanting to travel is putting the relationship first - especially if you want to travel without him at times.

 

That doesn't make you wrong but it doesn't make him wrong either.

[white lily]

This is the thing DN I don't want him to give it up, and he has said he want's to come travelling with me.... I just want a few (1-2) extra years and considering he is 5 years older than me I don't think this is unreasonable as he has had that extra time to do what it is he want's to do.

 

And this is where I get confused about what he wants and why I say there seems to be a solution, I compromise by saying yes I will set a date for family ie. 4-5 years and he compromises by giving me that extra time to prepare myself for everything that having a family involves and in the mean time we both go travelling together. But everytime it seems we are getting close to agreeing on this he starts going on about something else and when I focus in on what he is saying to try to find a solution to that he turns around and says I am missing the bigger picture and I am asking him to give up having a family IM NOT and I'm not sure how to make him see that.

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm repeating myself but i am obviously having problems making what I want clear. This forum is a good way to get everything out and try to clear my head a bit.

I just really don't want to loose this guy and that is what's going to happen if we can't sort this.

[DN]

The thing is that I understand both points of view. You want to travel and that is reasonable. But he wants to have children while he feels young enough to enjoy them and not be in his mid to late forties when they are teenagers. I have two daughters and the yougest was born when I was thirty - i don't think I would have wanted to be much older than that at the time, and in retrospect I am glad I wasn't.

 

But then I did travel a fair amount in my early twenties.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

I think you need to make it clear to him that you need to negotiate, not just have free floating anxiety over issues that are never resolved. It's like saying, ok, let's negotiate the price of X, and then you negotiate a while, then he says, but i also want Y, which distracts you from negotiating about X.

 

So tell him you want to get all his issues out on the table... everything he feels he needs to be happy. Then you make your list too. Then you sit down and start talking about ways for both of you to get what's on that list. And if things on the list conflict, he has to give a little, and you have to give a little.

 

And during the discussion, if the discussion goes off track or onto something else, you have to say, that's not on the table for discussion yet, we have to resolve X before you start talkign about Y.

 

The second this goes off onto the argument of 'if you loved me you would do/be X or Y' or 'i never get what i want', it is no longer negotiating, or unfair negotiating tactic. It starts trying to place blame or fling guilt to manipulate you.

 

So you have to really focus on negotiating, and tell him this isn't about who love whom more and he shouldn't generalize or try to guilt your or use unfair arguments. You need to sit down and hammer out a practical solution, not drag out and argue about everything and the kitchen sink every time the discussion comes up.

 

If you don't know how to negotiate, why not both of you read a book on negotiating, then table the issue until you can try the techniques.

[white lily]

Thanks DN and be strong be happy,

I know you get where we are both coming from DN it is clear from your posts (which I REALLY appreciate by the way) and one fo the reasons I am here is to help me understand his point of view better by discussing with others. Especially as I am only new to where I am living so don't have many friends as yet and none which I would feel close enough to to discuss my relationship (don't you love the anoniminity of the web?).

 

My last 2 posts came more from my confusion than anything as I was still upset from our latest "discussion" especially as we had agreed to set Sat. aside for us so we could have the whole day if needed and then he brought it up about half an hour before leaving for work so not suprisingly nothing was resolved and like I said was trying to clear my head.

 

Bestrongbehappy. I think I will follow your advice and get us to both WRITE down list's of what we want and work through it one at a time. that way we can keep focused on what we need to sort out rather than chopping and changing all the time.

 

Thanks for being so understanding guys