Cheating

[Botched]

first of all, bad analogy because bank deposits are insured. Second of all, I do not view women as "property" that someone else has exclusive rights to. You equate a woman to cash, or a car, or a sofa, basically "property". "Dont mess with someone elses woman" and all that. Look, women are NOT someones elses property. I believe in free will, and a woman is free to do whatever she wishes. And that goes for the women in MY life as well. I expcect no courtesy from some Tom, * * * * , or Larry who might be interested in my girl. If they can get her, then they were supposed to have her. Plain and simple. And unless that guy knows me, then he owes me zero.

 

 

I am not equating the woman to cash. I am equating the cheater to the BANK. The bank is handing out the attention/intimacy that is the currency of a relationship...read some current books on the subject. Bank references are common. I am not out of line or demeaning in any way...

 

 

But yes, you caught on. It is am over simplification.

[Botched]

 

 

So you support the idea that if a married woman would sleep with you then it would perfectly justified to do so, despite her ring and/or any other signs. You would be "meant" to have her. Cool.

 

I see you working....justify.

[LostInFlorida]

So you support the idea that if a married woman would sleep with you then it would perfectly justified to do so, despite her ring and/or any other signs. You would be "meant" to have her. Cool.

 

I see you working....justify.

 

 

Whats all this "justify" business about? I'm not justifying anything. I'm simply saying that I see no problem with a situation where I am breaking no vow or promise that I MYSELF have made. I never signed up to be the relationship police for the rest of the world. If you're not taking care of your girl, and she comes to see me instead, then thats on you. And you're the one then who needs to find justification for why you werent handling your business.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Well, that is kind of like saying that the person who drives the getaway car in a bank robbery has no responsibility for the bank being robbed.

 

Technically the OW/OM is not breaking a promise if they cheat with someone who is married, but they are enabling someone else to engage in behavior that will injure innocent victims, the spouse and children.

 

So it is a lot like driving the getaway car, though they personally didn't rob the bank.

 

I think many people who get involved with married people do not intend harm, but they are overly 'romantic' or suspectible to someone conning them. They may believe in 'true love' or 'the one' and think their love is so special that it was meant to be, even if it means they destroy someone else's family in order to be with that love.

 

And they frequently are naive in believing that their married lover is a 'good' person, and believe his lies. But that is naive because by default the married person is a liar and a cheater, and if they lie/cheat on their spouse, why should they be honest/honorable with the other woman? So the OW/OM has to be a gullible to believe the married person, or else inexperienced with liars/cheaters becuase they would never do it themselves, and can't believe their lover would actually lie to them.

[waveseer]

Ok I'll rephrase. They feel obligated to justify, then.

 

That doesn't make sense to me. If they are ok with breaking the taboo and going against common cultural norms of behavior then why would they feel the need to appease for approval?

[Botched]

So the question is this. Is the bank giving away the money, or is it being stolen? LOL...And if the driver thinks he isn't responsible, does he take his cut or not...and will he be sentenced when caught?

 

I think some drivers are taking all the wrong turns.

[LostInFlorida]

So the question is this. Is the bank giving away the money, or is it being stolen? LOL...And if the driver thinks he isn't responsible, does he take his cut or not...and will he be sentenced when caught?

 

I think some drivers are taking all the wrong turns.

 

 

This whole line of thinking is crap. You all keep equating a woman with property, like she is owned by someone. Money is a possession. A woman is not.

 

Maybe if people stopped thinking of their woman as property, and treating them as such, then guys like me would spend alot more time alone....

[mrmaximum]

This whole line of thinking is crap. You all keep equating a woman with property, like she is owned by someone. Money is a possession. A woman is not.

 

Maybe if people stopped thinking of their woman as property, and treating them as such, then guys like me would spend alot more time alone....

 

It's your thinking that makes no sense. This woman may not be property, but she entered into a LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT with another person, namely her husband which does change things somewhat. Which is why they have to sign an certificate, have a witness, be married by the correct authority, you get the idea. She made an agreement to FORSAKE ALL OTHERS and the only way out of that is to separate or divorce. THAT is the reason why your argument doesn't make sense and didn't pretty much from the jump. You simply cannot equate marriage with getting a job or taking money from the bank.

[Casey13]

The party that's unattached is not to be blamed at all. Some people believe in multipartner relationships and open relationships which they have a right to do so, thereforee it is the sole responsibility of the "attached" party to refrain from cheating since they know what their relationship is all about and all what's acceptable or not.

[Botched]

Go ahead then lost. Play your role. Guys like you are no threat. But keep patting yourself on the back as if you supply something. You'll feel the sting eventually.

[John Deere]

Cheating: Its wrong.

 

Well is it?

 

If your moral compass doesn't nudge one degree as you find yourself sneaking around, lying to spouses, stealing time from children and hurting someone by taking their wife then you are going to do just fine in this arena. And there are plenty of otherwise "moral" men and women who don't think twice about it.

 

I guess thats why somebody much smarter than me coined the phrase "All's fair in love and War".

 

Thats why most modern civilizations (and modern state governments) abolished laws prohibiting adultery long ago.

 

As Woody Allen made clear by titling one of his best movies Crimes and Misdemeanors there are deeds that hurt people and go against our deepest beliefs but because they are crimes of the heart no government or jury can successfully pass judgement against the people doing them. Whitman said it best: Not all paths to Self-Knowledge lead from or to the Conscience

 

if you love her go out and get her. That might not take a person in noble or heroic directions but its about as pure a motive of the human heart as anything you will ever do in your life.

 

not talking to anybody in this thread in particular. Just describing one man's view

[LostInFlorida]

And a pretty good view at that.

 

All these self righteous hall monitors make me want to throw up in my mouth. I dont, and never will, subscribe to the philosophy that because a woman made a promise to SOMEONE ELSE, that she is somehow off limits to me. And they keep bringing up things like bank robbery, killing people, and what not, like somehow theres a similarity there. Its laughable. All those things are against the law, and would get you put in prison. Now if sleeping with a married woman would get me put in prison, then im pretty sure I'd probably take a pass. But it isnt. And until it is, im pretty sure im ok in doing it.

[Botched]

And a pretty good view at that.

 

All these self righteous hall monitors make me want to throw up in my mouth. I dont, and never will, subscribe to the philosophy that because a woman made a promise to SOMEONE ELSE, that she is somehow off limits to me. And they keep bringing up things like bank robbery, killing people, and what not, like somehow theres a similarity there. Its laughable. All those things are against the law, and would get you put in prison. Now if sleeping with a married woman would get me put in prison, then im pretty sure I'd probably take a pass. But it isnt. And until it is, im pretty sure im ok in doing it.

 

 

 

You aren't talking about love, you are celebrating your conquests. Don't play like you are young and in love with a particular person. You said that once "they" want an exclusive relationship you bolt.

 

If a person took the time to read your posts here they would know that yours isn't a case of going out to get love. What you are bragging about is sleeping with married women, plural.

[mrmaximum]

And a pretty good view at that.

 

All these self righteous hall monitors make me want to throw up in my mouth. I dont, and never will, subscribe to the philosophy that because a woman made a promise to SOMEONE ELSE, that she is somehow off limits to me. And they keep bringing up things like bank robbery, killing people, and what not, like somehow theres a similarity there. Its laughable. All those things are against the law, and would get you put in prison. Now if sleeping with a married woman would get me put in prison, then im pretty sure I'd probably take a pass. But it isnt. And until it is, im pretty sure im ok in doing it.

 

 

Self righteous, very funny. Like I said before, this all started because you decided to issue a challenge and people took you up on it. You accept John Deere's post becuase it somewhat excuses your position. However, there is more to it than 'just go after what we want in life' with reckless abandon. Sometimes it can land us into issues. Botched is correct, your position is pretty self evident. I have no issue with it however, as I have stated before, you can live your life how you see fit, but you must know that people will have issue with it and not many will side with you when you claim that you have no responsibility in the demise of a marriage.

 

Word of advice, keep info and justifications like this to yourself and no one will call you on them. If you had done this in the first place this debate wouldn't have taken place because just like BSBH has stated, when you knowingly assist in a robbery, IT MAKES YOU AN ACCESSORY. There IS no argument one can place in defence to this, PERIOD!! Marriage is a legal situation, where the assets accumlated as a couple can be shared equally as in the event of separation. To divorce, one must engage in legal matters to end said situation. It isn't just a choice for one, no matter how we may wish it otherwise.

[LostInFlorida]

You aren't talking about love, you are celebrating your conquests. Don't play like you are young and in love with a particular person. You said that once "they" want an exclusive relationship you bolt.

 

If a person took the time to read your posts here they would know that yours isn't a case of going out to get love. What you are bragging about is sleeping with married women, plural.

 

 

Actually, that was the case about 5 years ago, but not these days. I did the "married woman" thing for quite a few years when I wasnt wanting to be in a relationship. But like anything else, it got old. In the last several years, I have only been involved with one married woman, and I fell for her pretty hard. Still havent given up on it. She did move out and is getting a divorce, but we still have some issues of our own to work through (mainly her guilt). And I honestly couldnt care less that she cheated on him with me. Could she do it to me too? Absolutely. But so could someone else. But thats a chance I'm willing to take for a "once in a lifetime" kind of woman.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

LostInFlorida, you are confusing legality with morality and empathy.

 

Sure, you made no commitment and the married person did, but don't you feel a twinge of conscience at least in contributing to something that might destroy a family and hurt innocent children?

 

And maybe your married woman took stock and realized the damage the affair did to her own life and others, and decided she didn't even want a memory of what happened, because her empathy and ethics kicked in. Perhaps she is not choosing you now because she senses your lack of empathy/understanding about the destructiveness and selfishness of affairs, while she learned something about that and decided she didn't want anything to do with it or anything that reminded her of what she'd done.

[LostInFlorida]

LostInFlorida, you are confusing legality with morality and empathy.

 

Sure, you made no commitment and the married person did, but don't you feel a twinge of conscience at least in contributing to something that might destroy a family and hurt innocent children?

 

And maybe your married woman took stock and realized the damage the affair did to her own life and others, and decided she didn't even want a memory of what happened, because her empathy and ethics kicked in. Perhaps she is not choosing you now because she senses your lack of empathy/understanding about the destructiveness and selfishness of affairs, while she learned something about that and decided she didn't want anything to do with it or anything that reminded her of what she'd done.

 

Actually, she does want us to be together, but her guilt makes things difficult sometimes, so I am giving her some space to work things out in her head. If she had it her way, she would be over here every day, but I get aggravated because she still acts like shes married sometimes, like not wanting to go out, be seen in public, and stuff like that until the divorce is final. Its way to long to go into detail, but I wrote a thread about it sometime ago. Long story short, "technically" she cheated on him with me, but in real life its not so black and white.

 

But back to your "morality" question. The quote that best summarizes it is "the light you wield must blind another". Thats the truth, like it or not. At some point, we ALL put our own interests ahead of others. Do you have any savings? If you do, you should withdraw it and give it to someone less fortunate. But you wont, because you put your own interests ahead of those less fortunate people (as you should). Truthfully, most of us have alot more than we really need, but we dont do much for the next guy. Sure, maybe you give a grand or 2 to charity at Christmas to feel better about yourself, but thats probably about it. And thats perfectly ok. The next guy is not your problem. As for me, I have no problem whatsoever admitting that I put myself first, and Joe Citizen is a distant second. I have that clarity in my life. If there's something I want, and you're in my way, then one way or the other you're getting out of my way. Thats just how it is. And thats no different than 99% of the people out there. Most just wont admit it. Not alot of Mother Theresa's out there that I know of.

[LostInFlorida]

If the other man/woman knows the person they are seeing is married/in a relationship they are as much to blame as the cheater. my gf once told me a story about how before we met she was messing around with a guy she knew was engaged, it really turned me off and in a way made me lose some respect for her.

 

 

Its all about blame. Nobody takes personal responsibility for anything. If you're a drunk, blame Budweiser! If you're a compulsive gambler, blame the casino! You abuse pills, blame the pharmacy! Your girl cheats, blame the other guy! People need to handle their own business, because if you're looking to me to help keep your relationship together, then you're in trouble.

[mrmaximum]

But back to your "morality" question. The quote that best summarizes it is "the light you wield must blind another". Thats the truth, like it or not. At some point, we ALL put our own interests ahead of others. Do you have any savings? If you do, you should withdraw it and give it to someone less fortunate. But you wont, because you put your own interests ahead of those less fortunate people (as you should). Truthfully, most of us have alot more than we really need, but we dont do much for the next guy. Sure, maybe you give a grand or 2 to charity at Christmas to feel better about yourself, but thats probably about it. And thats perfectly ok. The next guy is not your problem. As for me, I have no problem whatsoever admitting that I put myself first, and Joe Citizen is a distant second. I have that clarity in my life. If there's something I want, and you're in my way, then one way or the other you're getting out of my way. Thats just how it is. And thats no different than 99% of the people out there. Most just wont admit it. Not alot of Mother Theresa's out there that I know of.

I have spoken to people in the past online who date married people exclusively. Most did it because of the 'no strings' benefit of the relationship. Here is the deal with them however, when they where posed with the initial question of this thread, they new full well what they where doing and realized that sure, people didn't accept what they where chose, but similarly to a post you made earlier, they took responsibility for it. They simply said the marriage wasn't their problem but that their part in the affair was their choice.

 

You, however are deflecting as much responsibility from yourself as possible, making me really wonder if you really feel like this. To even state from Mavericks post that no one blames the actually cheater, only the affair partner. To me it sounds like denial, that you really aren't like these 'lowlifes' as YOUR case is different. What ever helps you sleep at night. Like in my signature there is a statement that one must realize is true no matter what. "You can do anything in life you want, so long as you are willing to accept the consequences". This is inescapable, we can't play with pigs and not expect to get dirty, simple.

 

The thing you have to understand is this, when dealing with a married person you have to wonder about the fog. There was a thread on it earlier and I really suggest you read it. It states the reason why quite a few affairs do not last after the marriage is over. Then there is another poster on here, Hellfrost666. He engaged in an affair with a married person, knew the risks and things turned out to be good for him and his partner in the end after the divorce. You may want to read his posts about it too. Lastly, you may want to read some threads in a site called "Surviving link removed" When it comes to cheating, we are like the General Practitioners, they are the specialists.

 

The bottom line is that there is a huge difference between saving some of your own money for yourself, and taking something else which doesn't belong to you. You delve as deep as you can into semantics to prove others wrong about their supposed assumption of you, however, it has to make me wonder if the person you are really trying to convince is yourself.

[karvala]

Its all about blame. Nobody takes personal responsibility for anything. If you're a drunk, blame Budweiser! If you're a compulsive gambler, blame the casino! You abuse pills, blame the pharmacy! Your girl cheats, blame the other guy! People need to handle their own business, because if you're looking to me to help keep your relationship together, then you're in trouble.

 

 

So next time you're walking along the sidewalk/pavement, and rather unexpectedly a car decides to drive on the sidewalk/pavement for a bit, and hits you, remember that it's your fault for not looking after yourself, not the driver's fault, because he is not responsible for your personal safety, he only needs to be concerned with whether he's happy or not. Right?

[Botched]

This is a case of one low self-esteem inflating one very large ego. On several occasions now he has said something about people not "taking care of business." I take it that he sees himself as being able to do what another fellow hasn't. He is getting his man fix this way.

 

The problem is that relationships are just more complex than that. He gets pumped up by the cheaters, because they must serve themselves an image of improvement. The lie serves both parties in that it excuses the cheater and allows him a sense of superiority.

 

It's a drug. I hope the current lady does join him and they establish a caring relationship void of secrets and confussion. But I doubt that this can happen. The old attitude tells me that either one of them would lose interest real fast in that case.

 

And no doubt, if she should cheat on him, the next montra is "I didn't care anyway."

[LostInFlorida]

Save the analysis, because what you know about me wouldnt fill a gel tab. My whole point about people needing to "handle their business", is simply to refute the absurd argument that I shouldnt pursue an interest I might have in a woman simply because she is married. Because somehow I'm supposed to "respect that marriage" and stay away? Cmon. The point is, obviously something is amiss in the marriage, or she wouldnt be straying in the first place. And they certainly are NOT straying because I'm some superman who does what their man cant. The vast majority barely even knew me. The main reason they probably get involved with me in the first place is nothing more than the fact that I am not him. 99% of the time it doesnt turn into anything, and nor would I have wanted it to. Of all the married women I have been involved with over the years, there is exactly ONE that I think could work out in the end. And if we do work it out, and 5 years from now she cheats on me, then thats 100% on me for 2 reasons. #1 obviously I wasnt paying enough attention to the trouble signs, and #2 technically I shouldnt be surprised if a relationship that started out like ours eventually goes bad. Either way, its on me, and I would have no one to blame but myself. But I certainly wont walk around assuming that every other guy is going to "respect" my marriage. I'm just going to assume that I need to do everything I can to make her happy. If I do that, and it still doesnt work, then it just is what it is..........

[LostInFlorida]

you make some interesting points, however I do have to disagree with the assertion that all of us guys that dont eliminate married women from consideration, are immediately cast as "lowlifes". To me, the intent would have to be to destroy something in order to earn that label. For instance, say I bagged a married woman on purpose, not because I was interested in her, but because I had some kind of beef with her husband. And then I used it to mess up his head. THAT would be low. But for me, its never about "breaking them up". If they break up, thats fine, and if they dont, then thats fine too. It was never really an issue. And back when I used to do it alot, them breaking up was the LAST thing on my mind. So maybe in your mind, I'm still a lowlife, but I dont go into these these things with ill intentions. Actually, there arent any intentions at all. I guess if I had to illustrate some kind of intention, it would simply be to find out what she is about, and go from there............

 

 

Maybe I differ from most in my total view on relationships. I just dont believe that every realtionship has to last forever in order to mean something. As a matter of fact, some of the best relationships Ive ever had lasted less than 6 months. And then they just reached that point where you knew it was time to go. No bad feelings, there just wasnt anywhere further it could go. So you get out before you ruin it. So that obviously factors in to my view on married women. Even if it only lasts a few months, we might have some wonderful times together, and not just in the sack either. And I should NOT do that simply because of a promise she made to someone else that has nothing to do with me?? Not likely.....

[Botched]

Why do you keep this conversation going with the same point? Expand and create some sort of general idea if you want anyone to follow. You obviously do, because you keep saying the same thing. And people keep resisting.

 

You seem to think that "people" want to blame the other guy. I do not see evidence of that. In a cheating situation, the two involved in the commitment are the only two that really matter. That is in terms of the relationship anyway. I get the idea you want full immunity or an "attaboy!" for your claims of wife-conquests.

 

Are you just saying that you have done, and are doing this and you feel like a victim of other peoples standards? We all have to live with moralities that we may not agree with. But what is it exactly that the "other guy" is suffering here? Are you arguing against general morality with this instance as your catalyst? Is Nietzchi some how involved? What are you looking for?

 

Asking questions of morality as a set up to disregard others views or to try to impose your own on other people trusting enough to answer is not quite honest. Looking for answers isn't your aim here, giving them is.

 

Your point drawn out into general response to morality or social norm is a pretty immature one. That isn't meant as a insult, it is just what it is as you say.

[LostInFlorida]

Actually, I was under the impression that these forums were for the exchange of ideas and opinions. Unless of course they differ from yours. But you are correct in that this discussion is going nowhere. You win.