What Should Be My Next Move?

[CrapAtNC]

Hi, all.

 

I've been away from ENA for a while, mainly because I'm feeling better within myself, because I'm trying to focus on other areas of my life, and because everything has been moving along nicely with my ex.

 

It's been two years since we broke up, though we never stopped being affectionate. I left the country for several months and she clearly missed me and initiated lots of contact. A couple of months ago I started dating someone new, and that made the ex come running back; we ended up as lovers again, though briefly. She made it clear that she hoped we could try again once she had tied some loose ends up (attachment to her ex of four years previous, who doesn't want her - I see it as an insecurity issue, and I'm being mature and letting her do what she needs to do to move on from that).

 

When she came back from visiting her other ex and realising she had been chasing a pipe dream, she became very withdrawn. We hung out a little, but there was a big wall around her (there always has been - the reason for our break up).

 

A big fight happened mid-June (mostly one-sided, but I do accept my part in it); we didn't speak for almost a month, and she quit working for my organisation. I went NC, but after a month initiated contact, letting her know that I hoped we could still work this out. Things moved slowly forward again, though with difficulty, as she seems very concerned about what her friends will think if we become close again, as she had put on a big show of just how much she hated me. She's a very secretive person, and is careful not to appear in photos with me or in any way show that we are still hanging out. She isn't seeing anyone else.

 

A few weeks ago we went away together, to a very beautiful and exotic location, and got to do some things we had both wanted to do all our lives (see some particularly unique and amazing wild animals). We went 100% as friends, though did share hotel rooms and sometimes a bed - though she wore as many clothes as possible, bless her.

 

Her guard was very much up the first few days, which caused a few very minor disagreements, but she began to relax towards the end of the trip, and I have to say we had a pretty good time, for two people trying hard to stay close without getting too close.

 

I'm leaving my organisation, for many reasons - all positive - and she will probably come take her job back, which she did really well. We've not seen each other since we got back a week ago, but I was pleasantly surprised that she's coming to the beach with me tomorrow.

 

I've told her that I want to go back to England, my home country, to sort myself out, as I've been in Asia for 10 years, and miss my family and other friends. I was surprised that she seemed quite concerned about that and asked questions such as would I be gone forever. What I'd love, and I know she'd be interested in, is for her to come with me. I leave in 6 months.

 

I know she loves England, and I know she doesn't want to lose me from her life, but she's also unable to communicate clearly that she wants to be with me. Her wall is very much up right now, but it's cracking more than ever before.

 

How should I discuss this with her, without frightening her away or making her feel pressured? Or should I not at all? It's partly her culture and mostly because she's afraid of getting hurt (she's admitted that, thankfully) that she is afraid to commit again or even admit outright that she still has strong feelings for me. I prefer to be open and honest, so I'm not interested in playing games. But I also want this tango to end: either we agree to move closer together or farther apart - I can't have this uncertainty and, frankly, pain any more. I love this woman more than any other.

 

And advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you.

[AJ Auteur]

A few weeks ago we went away together, to a very beautiful and exotic location, and got to do some things we had both wanted to do all our lives (see some particularly unique and amazing wild animals). We went 100% as friends, though did share hotel rooms and sometimes a bed - though she wore as many clothes as possible, bless her.

 

Go no contact again. This set you back miles.

 

You want her back...don't discuss it with her...let her come of her own choosing...you can help her decide with this one in your favor if you give her the push-pull treatment (when she reaches out you pull back, a couple of times) but at some point the manipulation has to stop and trust has to take over and i don't know if she can handle that...i'd move on and no getting in bed with a girl you like unless its to bang her.

[blue_dahlia]

How should I discuss this with her, without frightening her away or making her feel pressured? Or should I not at all?

 

I don't you think you should say anything about your desire for her to move with you. Keep contact to a minimum as well. Just go about your business, making your plans to move, etc.

 

There are still months left for her to get closer to you. And how much sweeter it would be for her to come to her own conclusion about moving as well. Just take it slow, don't scare her.

 

There's a saying, "Don't make a decision before a decision needs to be made."

[CrapAtNC]

Thanks, both. AJ, your last line made me laugh.

 

I think AJ is actually right about the friend thing being a setback to becoming a couple again. Can't turn back the clock, unfortunately. Hopefully it didn't spoil things too much; it certainly brought us closer together, but I must now be careful to avoid the friendzone.

 

And I completely understand that now is the time to pull back a little. I certainly shouldn't ask her to come to England. I'll just make sure we have fun tomorrow at the beach, but I'll be more flirty (confident/nonchalent; not needy/wussy) than I was on vacation.

 

I probably shouldn't even hint that she should come to the UK right? And she knows my feelings, so there's no point stating them again. Just stay focused on myself and my plans ... that's something I really have to work on (I have a tendency to make her my focus, which is never attractive, I know - plus I really want to achieve my goals).

 

I'm actually really looking forward to going home - Ol' Blighty seems so exotic to me now.

 

Best of luck to both of you, by the way.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Good to hear from Crap again

 

I know your relationship is touch and go and she is somewhat ambivalent, however, given the fact that you are planning on moving away in 6 months, I think that now is indeed the time to plant the bug in her head about you wanting her to move back with you. Something like that can't be done spontaneously...if she wanted to seriously entertain moving with you, she would have to prepare herself and get things in order so that she can move. That doesn't happen overnight. The more time she has to mull it over and plan, the better. So I would suggest that you casually bring it up in a conversation...do not make a big deal or have a long talk about it (unless she chooses to)...but at least bring it up, get it out on the table and then leave it alone and let her decide over time what she wants to do.

[Sparkie]

Hay mate

 

I would just make sure she knows you want her to come with you, and then leave it. Be the best you can be, and go about doing what you need to do. She will realise on her own that she has a decision to make. Just make that decision as hard as you can for her, by showing her exactly what she will miss out in when you are gone!

 

The 6 months will pass, and you'll go home. She'll either be with you, or she won't. End of turmoil one way or another.

 

(btw, have you been home for hols - the 'old dart' doesn't look so good without the rose tinteds

[CrapAtNC]

Not sure what that last line means, Sparkie ... I guess I have been away too long!

 

Well, we had a quiet date. It was fun, hanging out at the beach with the dogs, but she wasn't saying much. I told her that I'm tired of fighting for what should happen naturally (my work, but with a big inference about us), and that maybe it's my fighting that stops it working. I explained that I've given my all and it's time to accept that I can't make things the way I'd like them to be, so I'm going home, to tie up a lot of loose ends in my life and to plan my next great adventure.

 

I mentioned that there's no point asking if she'd come, and she quietly shook her head.

 

She didn't say much throughout the date. But she did say towards the end that she didn't want to see me any more, and in fact hasn't responded to any of my messages since.

 

I thought it strange, as we just went away together and had just been to the beach with the dogs. But she said she only came because she wanted to see the dogs. :sad:

 

I'm telling myself that she's protecting her heart again, not wanting to get any closer before I leave, but it could just be that she's grown tired of me.

 

But my course of action is clear and undeniable: leave her alone and move on.

 

I've come to realise a lot recently, and I feel that one of the biggest obstacles to me finding true happiness within a relationship is that I put too much effort into it - I try too hard; I'm too nice; I make the relationship my focus. And that's not the way to achieve a relaxed, natural anything.

 

A relationship is like a cake. If you want it to be a success, you leave it alone; you don't sit and watch it baking, nor interfere as it progresses. You just let it be. Interfere too much, and it won't rise nor cook evenly.

 

I have to have the confidence and self-assuredness to focus on the things in my life that need my attention (my work, my home, my goals, my self) and leave alone those things that grow better naturally and unimpeded.

 

That's not easy for me. I might need hypnosis. But it's something I definitely have to do.

 

It's no coincidence that those of us who most desperately want and strive for a fulfilling, loving, happy, successful, balanced relationship - to experience true all-satisfying and equal love - are the very people who are not achieving it. We are the ones who ruin our relationships, by trying to manipulate them, by worrying about them consistently, by doing all we can to make them work ... when all a healthy relationship really needs is to be left alone and to have our faith and confidence in it doing fine without interference.

 

I pushed her away by trying to pull her in. I closed her out by trying to open her up. And I made her hate me by trying to force her to love me.

 

I'm not making that mistake again.

 

Yours, getting on with life and leaving love to its own,

 

Crap

[majord23]

You started dating someone new and your ex came running back.

 

She is concerned about losing you forever to England.

 

She still has issues stemming from an ex from 4 years ago that doesn't want her back (I suspect these issues are because he doesn't want her back).

 

The impression I get is that your ex is very much a person that finds that which is hard to attain/hold onto attractive.

 

You know exactly what to do....

[CrapAtNC]

My word, you're right!

 

Such clarity, Major ... not sure how I missed it!

 

Well, to be honest, I really have given up hope, but indeed you're right - this might just be what will finally make this work. Ha! Let's see.

 

It's definitely a no-lose situation for me now, so ...

 

Many thanks for the insight.

[littlemissh]

Well, CrapatNC, it seems as though you are kind of on the other end my relationship. I was the one with intimacy issues and fear like your ex. When we broke, he desperately contacted me for a while. All the time. It annoyed me, and frustrated me. I needed time to think and time to miss him. He eventually dropped off from contacting me, except for a little bit here and there. And it got better, and I started to miss him. Then I didn't hear from him at all for a few weeks, and that is when I really could sort my feelings out and realize how much he meant to me.

So what I'm saying is, if you are having cloudy thoughts in your relationship like I did and how it sounds your ex is... she needs time to get clarity. She needs the absense to see how much you mean to her... and one day all of a sudden she realizes that she likes life better with you than without you. But you have to leave her alone for her to do that. She will contact you, especially if she loves you. Love doesn't just go away. It took my ex leaving me alone for my head to wrap around how much I really wanted to be with him.

I would say NC, and let her come to you. When she contacts you, just be friendly and to the point, and again leave her alone, and let her contact you again.

And as far as the moving with you thing goes, it def seems like she is worried about you moving. If you have already planted the seed, I would leave it at that. You said it once, and something that big won't be forgotten. If she is curious about it and wants to, if you don't say anything else about it, she will bring it up to know if it is still an option.

And don't worry about the moving time factor. She doesn't have to move the exact same day as you. She could come later. I think the closer it comes for you to leave, the more she will come to you, especially if you leave her alone.

[CrapAtNC]

Please, you can call me Crap.

 

I was pretty interested to read your response, littlemissh, as I just noticed in your thread that you do share the same problem with intimacy as my ex and were also the dumper.

 

What you wrote makes a lot of sense to me, and provides some much needed encouragement.

 

It's really not about her, is it? It's about me? If we have any kind of future, it depends on whether I'm truly able to pull back and give her the space she needs. She has issues, but I need to let them go first before she can.

 

Best of luck with your own situation, though I'm pretty certain you don't need it.

 

Thanks for all the responses - I'm feeling good about letting go now, as I see it as the ONLY way to go.

 

Gotta love this forum ...

[littlemissh]

haha!! Thanks, Crap

I hope I helped a little. And you def helped me a whole lot, too.

May I ask you another question? When you were dating the other girl, how exactly did you wind back up with your ex when she came "running back"? Did she ask you to come back to her? And did you just dump the other girl for your ex just like that?

I don't want to hurt him or her... if he is really happy with the other girl I want to leave it alone, but if he is pining for me like I am for him, then someone has to do something. Let me tell you, when I get him back, I am KEEPING him, that's for sure.

[CrapAtNC]

Re. your questions: that's a sore subject around here! Basically, I ended up seeing both women at the same time, and both knew about and accepted it ... for a while.

 

Once my ex saw me happy (I was) with someone else, she started making herself more available. She'd come out on more dates, and would often instigate them herself. If we were at a party, she'd come over and tell me she was leaving ... and then of course I'd end up giving her a ride home (we don't drink, just FYI) and things would progress from there.

 

Her reaction was strongest when she saw me with the ex, at a party for instance. She completely kept her cool, which I admired, and tried to get e jealous herself, but I knew how to deal with that and would tell her what a great couple they would make.

 

She keeps telling me (then later denying) that she's afraid of getting hurt. She doesn't say much, but that comes out a lot. Clearly, it's true. What she needs to realise is that she hurts herself by always pushing me away.

 

I don't like playing games, and I was as honest as possible when all this was happening. But, yes, she does come running when I pull back.

 

Your ex, once you've made it clear that you're interested, needs to realise that, yes, he could lose you to another if he doesn't make his mind up soon, methinks.

[majord23]

It's definitely a no-lose situation for me now, so ...

 

I truly think it is mate.

Just pull away and start to move on - past behaviour indicates that she won't be too far behind you.

And if she isn't then hell, you're moving on.....

[CrapAtNC]

Amen!

 

And thanks.

[CrapAtNC]

Interesting update, for you all to consider for your own situation:

 

I've not heard anything from the ex since I told her I was leaving to go back to my own country. But, for reasons highlighted in others' posts above and others I'm about to share below, I believe she will.

 

Firstly, indeed she does come running when she feels she's about to lose me. This has happened every single time, without fail, and I cocked up by moving back in too quickly and readily. I won't do that again, as I don't want to.

 

Secondly, it's human nature to want what's about to walk away from you (just as much as it is to not treasure what's too readily available to you). I'll explain with references from my own current situation:

 

I truly have decided to move on ... I've left my job, drawn up the plans, and begun making arrangements. And I've stopped chasing after the ex or calling up anyone else for dates, as there's no point getting involved now that I'm leaving.

 

You may already realise that our exes truly have an uncanny ability to know EXACTLY when they are about to lose us forever, and that's when they come back.

 

My ex and I became lovers again when I started seeing someone else.

 

When I had a big break-up with my ex just after she got back from her trip to another country, I was also having big problems with my organisation, and I knew that it was time for me to leave and go back home. I accepted this as the only way forward for me. Within an hour of sitting back in my chair, accepting this realization and making mental plans, my ex-fiancee of five years previous called me up out of the blue. A friend of hers - a foreigner - had just been killed in a driving accident, and it had made her realise how much she treasured me. She's not happy in her marriage, and I'm her best friend, apparently. I realised that maybe she was the most suitable one for me, and wondered what I'd do if her marriage failed. I thought about it a lot.

 

Then the recent ex immediately started becoming more receptive. We even went away on vacation together somewhere very special just recently (though she kept her wall almost the whole time) and we went to the beach together last week (though that's when I explained I was leaving and now she's not speaking to me).

 

While planning the trip with the recent ex, the woman I was seeing who caused my ex to come running back suddenly started getting back in touch, and told me she was going on vacation to the same small place I was going to and suggested we hook up. While there (she couldn't have known I was with the ex - no one did), she kept texting to meet up. I declined. When we got back, she kept it up and we ended up hanging out again.

 

I'm just not into her now, and she senses that, and she's all over me.

 

Then all the others started getting back in touch, and the more I blow them off, the more they try, and the more they offer. I could be a total playboy right now if I chose to. But I prefer to focus on my plans ... and that's why it's happening.

 

Then, one year exactly from the week my ex's mother was killed in a road accident, I witnessed a similar tragedy; the poor guy ended up dying as I held his hand trying to comfort him. It made me realise that life is too short to waste on those who don't want me - really.

 

When I handed in my resignation at work and told them my plans to leave the country to go back home, within one hour the ex-fiancee called and asked to meet me, telling me she had been thinking about me a lot (incredibly, she and her husband had also gone to the same place me and the other exes went to, though she one week before She and I got engaged there five years earlier (incredibly again, though the hotel was booked by the conference organisers, we ended up in the same hotel and same room that my ex-fiancee and I had stayed in before! I know! Don't even go there. It freaks me out!

 

(Hope you're still with me: there's an ex, another ex, and an ex-fiancee.)

 

The more I focus on making real plans for myself and making life better for me, myself, and I (and my dogs), the more attractive I seem to become. Making your partner the focus of your life isn't healthy nor productive, and in fact is extremely unromantic and unattractive.

 

I'm carrying on as I am. I'm no longer interested in my ex (genuinely so), and I'm sincerely moving on. And something tells me that some time in the near future I will have to decide if I want her back or not (instead of the other way around as it has been). But for now I'm truly moving on; life is too short to waste on those who don't appreciate it.

 

So, my friends, please take this advice:

 

1. Accept that there's nothing more you can do

 

2. Stop trying

 

3. Focus on you

 

4. Let go

 

5. Stop hoping

 

6. Make plans without them

 

7. Move on

 

Then wait and see what happens. You'll find yourself spoilt for choice, I guarantee.

 

I'm very much looking forward to this new phase in my life and all it brings. You should, too.

 

All the best,

 

 

Crap

[littlemissh]

oh crap!!! i so esteem you! you've got you're head on straight! and you're so right. I just plan to make amends on the damage i caused and then leave it at that and keep on truckin' with my art and learning from my mistakes and being a better person!

[CrapAtNC]

oh crap!!! i so esteem you! you've got you're head on straight! and you're so right. I just plan to make amends on the damage i caused and then leave it at that and keep on truckin' with my art and learning from my mistakes and being a better person!

 

I would say that is exactly the way to go - I like the idea of making amends first, just so they realise you aren't walking away out of lack of desire or want of trying ... then the ball really is in their court, and they'll have to return it quick or you'll already be playing with someone else.

 

Go, little!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I think you have the right idea by moving on with your life and forget all these wishy washy women who only want you once your foot is out the door, but the minute you get reeled back in they want to disappear again. People who are like that are not emotionally healthy. A relationship needs stability and loyalty...it can't thrive on drama...drama is exactly what you get with someone who is only attracted to a person once that person distances themself. How can there be a successful marriage if there is a constant push pull. You say that it is better to let relationships ride and not work on them...but you can't let relationships ride..if you do you end up with push pull. Relationships take work, constant work...but the thing is when BOTH people care about each other, put a high priority on the other person's feelings and needs and are emotionally healthy then working at relationships is not a chore, it is a pleasure. The women you have encountered are not emotionally healthy and that is why they only wanted you when you were more aloof and walked away the minute you showed you cared. I think the lessons you seem to have taken away from these experiences are really how NOT to have a healthy relationship...in other words, what seemed to work and not work with these women is so incredibly effed up and is the kind of thing that results in marriage failures, depression and just all kinds of negativity. Move back to your home country and wipe the slate clean...start looking for women who have a more healthy outlook on relationships...relationships thrive on love and attentiveness, not standoffishness.