From too fast to too slow

[Belle]

I met a guy last month that took me off guard. He started out like gangbusters, talking intensely off the bat and seemed to want to hop into a relationship. He and his ex broke up at the end of last year. He went out of his way for my birthday, and I appreciated it immensely. However, we had very different views on where to take this. I want to take it slowly and start off as friends. He is impatient and wants instant gratification. I know that this doesn't work long term so we talked about it. I had to put my foot down pretty firmly. And it seems that as of that time, everything has changed.

 

He admitted that he's not used to pursuing women like he has me. That he's used to playing hard to get and having women come to him. That he felt somewhat responsible for things not working out with his last girlfriend because he didn't put forth the effort to meet her needs. That he doesn't want to blow this. WHereas that's flattering, I still want to get to know him. Now, he doesn't text and call at rapid pace (which was a relief) but still calls every day or eveyr other day but we're not always able to talk as I'm busy or he's out of town. He doesn't really talk much like he did before. Initially, after spending a lot of time together (and the talk), he stopped calling for 3 days. I did nothing. I figured though, that since he started again that at least he was interested. The problem is, how interested is he still? I know he's holding back. I don't know if he's doing it because he doens't want to blow it like he said, or because I've been demoted because I'm not giving him what he wants. He has become inconsistent and extremely aloof. This is not the same guy that was really into me from the get go. And in a way, I'm glad he slowed down because I could lose interest if he was too available. I just think he's gone to the opposite extreme. He doens't even ask to see me much anymore. Earlier on I asked him if something was wrong as soon as I noticed it, but he said he was just "busy." He still maintains that. He does work a lot for his job, but I can tell you that in the beginning he'd call and text right through it so I don't buy it.

 

What is going on? Should I move on?

[Batya33]

It sounds like you need to have a talk with him and ask him. he probably decided to pursue other women to date because he has enough female friends. I can relate because if a man told me he wanted to be "friends first" I would tell him that I had enough friends and that I was looking for someone to get to know through dating with the potential for a serious relationship.

[Belle]

Thanks for the response Batya. We have talked about it pretty honestly. It's not like things haven't progressed romantically, just not at the cut throat rate he wanted to. I expressed my physical attraction for him but he has doubts. I don't know why, he can get any girl he wants. I just don't express my attraction the way he did, which felt like too much too soon. I just wanted to take my time because I've been burned pretty badly the last few go arounds and I don't want chemistry to be the driving force for this. I want to see that he's a good guy that I can trust and that I am compatible with. I told him I see a lot of potential in us. Just that I'm a little old fashioned.

[DN]

What is going on is that you essentially told him to back off and slow down and he has done exactly that. If you now dump him because he did what you wanted then he will quite possibly be posting on a forum such as this one asking why you were so contradictory.

 

If you like this guy and would like to explore the chances of something developing then it is up to you to put this right. Don't in any way blame him for the situation or imply it is his fault. This is something you have created so it's up to you to take responsibility for it.

[Batya33]

I am very old fashioned too but to me there's a big difference between telling a man you want to take things slow in dating and telling him "friends first." Taking things slow in dating means you go out to public places, perhaps you hold hands, you get to know each other and you take it slow physically and perhaps emotionally in the sense that you see each other once a week, talk once or twice a week, slowly integrate him into your lives. Just being friends first means he would not be courting you, he'd just be hanging out with you -- and he might have enough people to hang out with. It sounds like semantics but it also sounds like you are confusing "dating" with sexual intimacy.

 

I typically wait several months at least before having sex with a man and I don't exclusively date someone until we know each other a few months. But if I told a man I just wanted to be friends first I would expect him to find ladies to take to dinner or the movies or a party on a saturday night and call me when he had some spare time to hang out.

[Belle]

Dn,

 

That was a little harsh. I admit that I got what I asked for. However, given his history of playing hard to get, I'm a little dismayed that he's doing it to me. It doesn't feel like he's just backing up and seeing where it goes as much as he's playing hard ball. One thing I've discovered early on is that he is somewhat spoiled and used to getting his way.

 

I've been trying to make this right by opening up to him more like he wanted. I've even tried to meet him halfway (not my speed, not his speed but somewhere in the middle). So far, he's remained aloof and maybe now I'm impatient. I don't know. If I knew what it took to "make it right" I'd do it but I feel like I try to constantly let him know that I"m into him and he's still pouting.

[Belle]

Batya,

 

I didn't tell him just friends. We were kissing at this point so it's kind of hard to just be friends. I just didn't want to become intimate and become a relationship early. I wanted courtship. He wanted more, fast.

[Batya33]

I think you tell him that you gave him the impression that you wanted him to back off and just be friends with you rather than slow down the pace of dating a bit and slow down the physical intimacy. See how he reacts to that. He may not be playing hard to get - he may simply be protecting his heart, his emotions, by not getting too attached to someone who used the "f" ("friends") word.

[Belle]

I hope you're right. He did express concern that I could hurt him. I just wish he'd be honest about what he's going through now. I've been completely honest with him about my intentions because he thought I was playing games. He doesn't understand old fashioned I guess. Maybe it is a game, but that's what I am.

[Batya33]

You wrote:

 

I want to take it slowly and start off as friends.

 

that is where I got that impression from. Look, it could be that he is looking for someone willing to have sex with him early on and see him all the time. that may not work for you and thereforeeee the two of you might not be compatible.

[Belle]

Look, it could be that he is looking for someone willing to have sex with him early on and see him all the time. that may not work for you and thereforeeee the two of you might not be compatible.

 

this is what I'm afraid of. hence my desire to take it slowly so no one gets hurt.

[Batya33]

In my experience, if I tell a man I want to take things slowly sexually and he backs off completely or near completely, it means that he is not on the same wavelength with me and prioritizes finding a woman who does want to have sex early on over courting me. Many women are comfortable having sex early on, so that's not hard to find. You either need a guy who feels the same way as you do (yes, they exist!) or a guy who is willing to compromise and take things slowly because it's worth it to get to know you.

[Belle]

I know they exist. I've dated mostly guys like that.

 

I think the thing that stings the most is "prioritizes finding a woman who does want to have sex early on over courting me." I can't tell if he's backing off because of this, or because he wants to make it work. His actions to me say the first and this is what is bothering me. If it were the second, I'd be patient. He did tell me he wasn't dating anyone else, but who knows if that's true.

[Batya33]

Do you know if he wants to be exclusive, or it's just that for now he's not dating anyone else? Look, it's so much better to know early on if you two have similar values and goals. Yes, it's true, many men will wait longer for a woman they see serious potential with. It's also true that many women will have sex earlier than they feel comfortable with to keep the man interested (never tried this, not sure if it works!).

I think what you do is make it clear one more time why you asked him to take things slow - without bringing up any trust issues - just "I like to take things slowly so that I get to know someone over time before we have sex" and see how he reacts. Also, after dating a month - it's fine I think to call him and plan a date.

[Belle]

He didn't say that he wanted to be exclusive. He said that he would be. I don't know if that's semantics or what. I do not get the impression that he's on the prowl. He's indicated that he's mostly been in long term relationships.

 

I have tried planning a date. Once I heard nothing, the second time we ended up going.

 

I wish I hadn't brought up trust issues. But he's persistent so I threw it out there. The fact is, it's not just about trust. It's about my comfort level.

[zachiphus]

it sounds like at the beginning of your "relationship" u were playing games and now u r upset that he has changed his mind a little and isn't as into u as before.

 

to be honest i don't blame him. i recently asked a girl out and she said i just want to be friends right now, but maybe something can happen later. i dont put up with that crap. either they like me at the get-go or they don't. i am not gonna chase them and try to win their approval. so if he is seeming a little more stand-offish now because he might have been unsure if this relationship was gonna work out and didn't want to waste his time because u r sending him mixed signals, i say good for him. i would definitly try to see otherr people if women do that to me. so if u actually want a relationship with him to happen, it is your turn to tell him how u feel. not the other way around.

[Belle]

zach,

 

I think this is maybe where gender and age have two different opinions. I wasn't looking for just a friendship. I wanted to establish something before we got serious. I wasn't playing games and I was honest. I told him how I felt about him but that I didn't want to rush it because I've seen it end badly this way. Whatever your situation, I was not the girl you asked out so I'm taking your advise with a boulder of salt.

[DN]

Belle, I am sorry if I seemed harsh - I did not mean to be. But you asked for advice and I gave you my take on the situation as I think he might be seeing it. I think you should realise that there are two points of view about a relationship and that he has his own - it may not be exactly the same as yours.

 

Communication is a tricky thing and if you have mistakenly given him the impression that you are not really interested at this time (by telling him you want to take it slow) then it is no wonder he has reacted as he has. And it is a mistake to think his main motivation may be sex - he may indeed want a relationship in all it's aspects and had decided he doesn't want to get hurt. 'Taking it slow' can also mean 'I am not really into you'.

 

That is why I suggest you clarify to him what it is you really want so he is completely clear. Because if I were him I would not know what it is you want and would be busy making sure I wasn't going to get hurt by someone who seems less than enthusiastic.

[Batya33]

What I have always said to men where the issue came up early on (because they brought it up) is the following - close to verbatim: "I like to take things slowly when it comes to physical intimacy." If the plan is to be alone with him at one of our places and I am not ready to have sex and it is clear that that might come up, then before we go there I say "I am glad we're going to see (your place/my place) and I am not ready to have sex with you." If asked further I explain that I do not have sex with someone without a commitment and only after dating over a period of time.

 

With all of my long serious relationships the response was "whenever you are comfortable is when we will."

 

There were a number of men who upon hearing that disappeared shortly after.

 

I never told someone I wanted to take things slowly in general unless he asked me to be exclusive to early and then i would be specific and say that I was not yet ready to be exclusive but could see it headed that way. (two years ago I told the man in question that I needed about two months to get to know him - there were other issues there on his part that I wanted to explore and we ended things after 7 weeks).

 

I find it best to be very specific about what i want to take slowly. If I wanted to take everything slowly I would be specific as in "let's see each other once a week but three times is too fast/too much for me for now" I would be somewhat put off by a man who wanted to take things slowly overall because he had trust issues or was getting over an ex. A yellow, if not a red, flag and my reaction would be to date other men and him while he made up his mind. Not out of anger but out of self protection.

[Belle]

I think you should realise that there are two points of view about a relationship and that he has his own - it may not be exactly the same as yours.

 

DN,

 

Thanks. I do realize we think differently. I just simply have never dealt with this before. Usually if the guy hears time he bolts if he's looking for one thing. The guys that were seriously interested in me waited and took their time. He's still hanging out but he's acting odd and I feel like he feels rejected and it makes no sense. I have never indicated I was not interested at this time. There was no indication that we would only be friends. I wanted to base teh relationship on friendship to a certain extent because I find that lasts. I specifically told him that I think we had a great opportunity for something really good and that I just wanted to do it right. That means not rushing.

 

But it is interesting that in all of my years I've never learned that taking it slow means i'm not into you. He kept suggesting that I wasn't that into him and it baffled me. He made me nervous and a little tongue tied but couldn't figure that out.

 

I tried to call him to clear things up last night but he's still on the game plan and didn't answer. I'm going to try one more time, lay it all on the line and if he can't lay down his defenses to meet me half way, there's nothing more I can really do.

[Batya33]

I will add that there is a difference between not rushing and taking things slowly. Perhaps when he heard "slow" he thought "not that into me" where if you had simply declined to see him more than once or twice a week and said "no" or "stop" to specific situations where he moved too fast, he would have gotten the same message but not in the draconian way it may have seemed when you had this big talk about "taking it slow."

 

Also, we all risk hurt in a relationship - true, moving too fast can increase the risk, but it's not necessary to take things at a snails pace either.

[friscodj]

Hi Belle-

 

I have some thoughts about your situation...

 

At the very core of the situation here, it is pretty clear that you guys have a conflict of interest. He was super interested in you and wanted a relationship. This is what he wants from your time together. You, on the other hand, want to go slow and forgo intimacy in the name of getting to know him more. This is what you want from your time together, which opposes his interest in this.

 

I can almost surely guarantee you that he perceives your desire for friendship as a rejection, relative to his interest in this situation. On top of that, this is unfamiliar ground for him, perceivably having to wait and "chase" you. Experience tells me that people default towards familiar patterns in relationships, and I believe that will happen here; he will desire and seek someone to chase him should you not do some of this at least. He can tell himself he won't do this, but it takes a long time to change firmly established patterns like this. It just won't feel "right" to him otherwise and he'll mistake this wrongness for wrongness between you two.

 

I am pretty sure his interest level in you is dropping faster than George Bush's approval rating. You have two options here I see: 1) make a compromise and become more intimate sooner, thus making an effort in meeting his desires, or 2) walk away from this. I am pretty sure he sees a lack of interest and rejection in your words and actions here. I also believe you can build a bond and get to know someone while being romantically intimate with them while maintaining boundaries for such intimacy. In fact, I believe such a scenario can be the best way to get to know someone on deeper levels than friendship.

 

But before you decide, I urge you to think about why you are so interested in him. I don't read much mention of why you guys are even in this position, what is the basis for such action, for such potential connection. What I'm asking is, why is he so special? Also, there are guys you'll meet who will be on the same page you are in terms of the speed and progression of a relationship and will likely take less work and struggle to build something with.

[DN]

Batya raises a good point about 'going slow'. It is one of those phrases that people use without really thinking about what they mean by it and it is very capable of misunderstanding.

 

What do you mean by going slow? Do you mean sexually, emotionally, exclusive relationship, dating others etc? What defines slow?

 

I think Batya's suggestion about being more specific with behaviours is a better option than a general 'go slow'.

[Belle]

Also, we all risk hurt in a relationship - true, moving too fast can increase the risk, but it's not necessary to take things at a snails pace either.

 

I hear you. But we're not moving at a snails pace. The first week was kind of tough because I felt like he was trying to sweep me off my feet and I got a little scared.

 

frisco,

 

I see the conflict of interest. I've also wondered why I'm bothering considering our differences. However, there's something about his energy that I like. We have positive things to offer each other. He's sweet and funny and goofy like me. We have a number of things in common. If it weren't for this one thing, I wouldn't question compatibility. Also, he seemed to get me and like me, not for the outside but because he said he saw I was a good person. That is rare. Most guys I've dated don't even care to get to know me. That is why I'm taking a risk when it could end up being that we're incompatible. And I hope I'm right, but I believe he is a good person at the core. Just a little spoiled and used to having his way.

 

I have done some of the chasing lately. This is where the frustration lies. It's not in my nature to do it, but I felt like he was worth trying something different. I was patient because I knew he felt rejected. But he hasn't been terribly responsive all of the time. I don't think he minds chasing, because he did pursue hard in the beginning. I think he just needs encouragement that it will lead somewhere. I'm going to have to think about the compromising thing.

 

Dn,

 

I meant slow as in sexually. We had discussed the specifics this ad nauseum. He just likes to take a lot more risk than I do.

 

thanks you guys.