Wanting the already taken

[fnlyfrei]

Opportunism Dako, perfect description. Maybe narcissism? Self-centerd'ness...a general lack of compassion for anyone other than yourself? Sociopath? Jerk?

[servedcold]

... are you kidding me?!? Double-you Tee Eff, mate.

[Also, it's obviously all womenkind's fault that there are broken marriages and cheaters in this world. Women are obviously "hard-wired" to sleep around and spread our genes as far and wide as possible, right?

 

I never said this, but stand by my answer to the OP's question.

 

Just because your experience is with women of questionable morals doesn't mean that the ENTIRE FEMALE GENDER is a bunch of cheats and liars.

 

Way to make a gross generalization, dude.

 

Men lie too, this particular lie is told more by women...

[renaissancewoman101]

Those married guys that go looking elsewhere for some "action" can also be some of the most self-serving, self-righteous guys every. AND they have double standards. There was one guy at my work who proclaimed himself to be a good Christian, was very Republican, and for old values. He would proudly tell people that when his kids came to visit with their bf's or gf's, he would make them sleep in separate beds and in separate rooms since he didn't condone stuff like that. And yet, he was the biggest cheater ever. He'd flirt with the young women there (the company I used to work with was populated by older workers, only a few young people there), and try to get in their pants, while espousing how much he was against abortion, for marriage, and NOT living together, etc.

 

What a hypocrite.

[treefrogkate]

I never said this, but stand by my answer to the OP's question.

Sure, there are male players out there, but they are in the vast minority.

 

It follows from your statement that it must be females who are doing the cheating and lying, since you don't think there are many males out there doing it.

 

Give me some statistics. Give me some cold, hard facts. Give me some studies done that say this. Give me evidence that all women want a man who is already taken, and that only 50% of women tell the truth (try telling me you didn't say that):

And furthermore, ask 100 women whether they would rather date a totally single guy or steal a guy from an existing GF, and the 50 who don't lie will admit they would rather steal the guy from an existing GF. The women who say they would rather have the truly single guy are mostly lying or rationalizing.

Until you can provide me with that, I will continue to think that your statement is full of hooey.

 

BTW, I'd be interested in hearing your response to CharLit's very well-written post.

[jettison]

Why especially women? If it's genetically about picking a superior mate it, surely that goes both ways in equal degrees?

Also, I can assure you that the tons of attention you get when attached is the same for both sexes. I'm guessing it's because you're happy (and thereforeeee good company), and don't have that air of desperation that some people looking for a mate have.

 

I read an article. Sorry, I can't quote it because I didn't save it. Not trying to be sexist though. In fact, I think a lot of men pick up on women that they think are desperate because it seems like an easier take. So in that case, i'd say i'm more sexist against men if anything.

 

However, a lot of what we do, whether society deems it acceptable or not, is based on biology. This doesn't excuse poor behavior, but does explain why people are inclined to hurt each other so often.

[servedcold]

Knew my reply here would get me in hot water...

 

Lovely.

a) In my experience "I have a boyfriend/girlfriend"-line as a lie is most frequently used to turn down people who approach you who you aren't interested in. It seems less hurtful than saying "i just don't fancy you"

 

So there are lots of women doing the approaching out there who hear this line? I think not. Looks good on paper though. I agree that it is most often used as a screen, but most every woman I know who isn't married tells every man who approaches this line for one of the reasons I list.

 

b) Why on earth would a woman who is out alone not have a partner? You're not chained to one another in a relationship

 

I never said this, what I said was that the propensity of women to use this lie makes me discount it unless the guy is staring me in the face.

 

c) In all cases of heterosexual cheating a man and a woman are involved. Whether they are the cheater or the "other man/woman" will vary, but I'd say since the male/female distribution is per defnition 50-50, men and women as a whole are equally to blame for deceit.

 

My -point- was that guys hear the "I got a BF" line so much that we don't take it seriously. And no, men do not tell the I've got a GF line nearly as much because women need to actually -see- the competition to see if she is worthy of stealing from.

 

d) I'm curious to hear where you gained your incredible knowledge of womankind, and would be interested in the source of your statistics, too.

 

My knowledge is indeed incredible, and has been obtained in taverns, streets, clubs, restaurants, churches, dances on my own.... but mostly it has been obtained from many female friends over many years...

 

and with respect to women stealing others' boyfriends (and my post was about -single- not -married- people) just because they are others' boyfriends, I know it isn't politically correct, sorry I stand by it. Whenever I have gone anywhere in the company of attractive women, I get ridiculously greater amounts of attention from other women than when I am alone.

 

Women, in my experience, perceive more social value in a man who is already, or appears to be, attached in some form. Men generally do not attribute social value in this way.

[renaissancewoman101]

why do these threads always degenerate into a sexist war, when people of one sexual connotation is throwing barbs at people of another sexual connotation????

[servedcold]

Give me some statistics. Give me some cold, hard facts. Give me some studies done that say this. Give me evidence that all women want a man who is already taken, and that only 50% of women tell the truth (try telling me you didn't say that):

 

Sorry, I just don't have the inclination to go to all that trouble. Can I get a grant?

[fnlyfrei]

Still, you cannot take your personal experience as scientific fact or the norm...there are too many variables here. And yes, some men DO attribute social value this way...you say generally. How would you know? There are many single fathers waiting to swipe a good female away from some ususpecting, neglectful dolt....call it opportunistic..whatever..a social new problem? This isn't the 1950's anymore. The game has changed and you can never say never these days. The bottom line is...anyone who tries to steal away someone from their original someone probably isn't the best catch...they have serious issues. At least in MY experience. Male or Female...it matters naught. Let's stick to the issue and not turn this into something else.

[treefrogkate]

I never said this, what I said was that the propensity of women to use this lie makes me discount it unless the guy is staring me in the face.

 

So you assume every woman who says this is lying until she can prove otherwise?

 

My -point- was that guys hear the "I got a BF" line so much that we don't take it seriously.

 

Again, you are assuming any woman who says this is lying.

 

And no, men do not tell the I've got a GF line nearly as much because women need to actually -see- the competition to see if she is worthy of stealing from.

 

Again, why do you feel the need to paint the ENTIRE FEMALE GENDER with this same brush? Do you not see that this is what we are arguing over? I'm not saying there are no women out there that do this, that would be pretty bold of me. However, if I were to do the same as you and take my own experiences as the "norm", then I'd be telling you that no one does this, as none of my friends do this, and I don't do this.

 

My knowledge is indeed incredible

 

Uh huh.

 

and has been obtained in taverns, streets, clubs, restaurants, churches, dances on my own.... but mostly it has been obtained from many female friends over many years...

 

Are you a woman? Can you read minds?

 

Women, in my experience, perceive more social value in a man who is already, or appears to be, attached in some form. Men generally do not attribute social value in this way.

 

In your experience. This is the key statement of all of your posts! Yet, you continue to make broad, blanket statements about over 50% of the earth's population! And you wonder why you're getting flack for your reply?

[servedcold]

Still, you cannot take your personal experience as scientific fact...

 

Never claimed to unless I get that grant...

 

...anyone who tries to steal away someone from their original someone probably isn't the best catch...they have serious issues. ...Let's stick to the issue and not turn this into something else.

 

This I agree with.

[servedcold]

So you assume every woman who says this is lying until she can prove otherwise?

 

Again, you are assuming any woman who says this is lying.

 

If she responds favorably to my next line, "That's OK, I wasn't looking for a GF," then yes I do assume she was lying when she said "I have a BF." and they respond favorably a startling amount of the time...

 

I'm not saying there are no women out there that do this, that would be pretty bold of me.

 

I'm saying a majority do in my experience. Sorry if you feel that brush is too broad.

 

Sorry also for derailing the thread into a gender issue, it appears upon review of my original reply that it was in fact my express intent to do so at the time, that was wrong and I apologize.

[WhiteForest]

Whew!!! Lots happened since I've been gone today! Anyways in response to one of the posts...

 

I agree that the person in the relationship initiates affairs as well. I didn't mean to seem as though it was always the other person who starts affairs. I was just ranting because this seems to happen more commonly than I would like and I think its absurd for either person in the affair to be having...an affair.

 

I mean if you don't want to be with your SO anymore and want to have a fling/relationship or whatever with other people then leave your SO and go do whatever the crap you want to do! And (to the "other woman/man) if you are pursuing a fling/relationship with someone then go get your own and leave everyone else's alone!

 

Ok....glad I got that off my chest!

[CharLit]

Servecold,

Your experience is the opposite of mine. Not the exact opposite, my world isn't populated with lying, cheating men who would prefer an attached female over a single one. But based on things that have happened around me, men would be the 'bad guys'. However, I recognise the statistical irrelevance of 'my experience' as it consists of a number of isolated incidents mostly within a fairly limited demographic group.

 

However, if I were to take my experience as indicative for humanity as whole as you are doing, that leaves us with the problem that my experience is the opposite of yours. Whose experience is then more valid?

 

My thought is, our experiences say more about the kind of people we are and associate with than about either gender the world at large.

[servedcold]

Servecold,

Your experience is the opposite of mine. Not the exact opposite, my world isn't populated with lying, cheating men who would prefer an attached female over a single one. But based on things that have happened around me, men would be the 'bad guys'. However, I recognise the statistical irrelevance of 'my experience' as it consists of a number of isolated incidents mostly within a fairly limited demographic group.

 

In the relationship/dating game, men lie about certain things, women lie about certain things... each... and....every... day. Some the same, some different. It's pervasive in American culture, with which I am most familiar, and in every other culture with which I have experience. "Honey am I gaining weight?" "No dear, you look better than when we met." Q.E. frickin D.

 

Never anywhere in my post did I say or imply that women are pervasively the "bad guys" in relationships. My original post made two claims. 1) One reason men do not stop pursuing a woman who purports to be in a relationship is that women frequently claim to have a boyfriend in one breath, and then in the next, let it be known that they don't really, or regardless that whether they have a BF or not means nothing as to their true level of availability.

 

2) Women pervasively assign greater social value to a man who is, or seems to be, attached in some way.

 

I stand by BOTH of these generalizations, the first rather narrowly based on my experience, and the second, admittedly a much broader generalization, sorry my apology for derailing the thread into a gender issue didn't sink in... and...

 

My thought is, our experiences say more about the kind of people we are and associate with than about either gender the world at large.

 

Thanks so much for the thinly veiled personal attack.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

most of the cheaters and partner stealers i have met admit that their fundamental impulse to be with someone else's partner is selfish. they want what they want and hence feel entitled to get it, without thinking of the effect of their behavior on other people.

 

the initial impulse may be they want the sexual variety, or enjoy the competition and 'sport' of seeing if they can steal someone away from someone else, or see someone they really are attracted too, and decide they want to date them, who cares about anybody else. but the characteristic that pushes them to actually act out on those desires is selfishness.

 

so i think it is a selfishness and self centeredness combined with a sense of entitlement. they feel entitled to do/have what they want, regardless of the impact on other people.

[puppeteer]

why do these threads always degenerate into a sexist war, when people of one sexual connotation is throwing barbs at people of another sexual connotation????

 

because the vast majority of us on this website have been hurt and anger easily...

 

could be wrong but i know that sometime my buttons totally get pushed by something another poster says...not so much because what they are saying is wrong or stupid, but because somewhere deep inside it triggers the injustice and hurt that i have felt from my own life...

 

just a thought.

 

we are all hurting...we are all healing. anger is sometimes necessary to get that pain out of the way.

 

then we can actually start talking to each other.

[treefrogkate]

because the vast majority of us on this website have been hurt and anger easily...

 

could be wrong but i know that sometime my buttons totally get pushed by something another poster says...not so much because what they are saying is wrong or stupid, but because somewhere deep inside it triggers the injustice and hurt that i have felt from my own life...

 

just a thought.

 

we are all hurting...we are all healing. anger is sometimes necessary to get that pain out of the way.

 

then we can actually start talking to each other.

 

I think that's part of it. It's the broad gender generalizations that really get me. Statements that "every woman does this" are painful to those of us who are targeted in that group that don't do that. It hurts to be reduced to just a gender and have someone assume "Oh, because you're a woman, you do this" when I'm so much more than that.

 

And what's the difference between someone saying "every man cheats" and, say, "every black person is a criminal"? There is no difference, and people just don't get that sometimes. Someone who would never post a racial slur is more than comfortable making a generalization about "all women", and I don't understand what makes those people think it's ok to do that.

[servedcold]

It's the broad gender generalizations that really get me. Statements that "every woman does this" are painful to those of us who are targeted in that group that don't do that.

 

Sorry to have caused you such great pain with my reply here re: MY experiences with women. Best wishes for a swift recovery.

[fnlyfrei]

Sorry to have caused you such great pain with my reply here re: MY experiences with women. Best wishes for a swift recovery.

 

wow, that wasn't thinly veiled sarcasm or even being patronizing!

 

 

Play nice kids.

[JadedStar]

Why do people pursue relationships with someone that is already in a relationship with someone else? I just don't get it...I would never do that. Not only does it hurt that persons SO, but it is very unhealthy for themselves also. I just don't understand why people cross that line.

 

I'd be willing to bet that nine times out of ten the feelings develop over time and the person did not intentionally pursue the "taken" person. I am sure at times people have but mostly I am sure someone just finds themselves either falling for someone attached due to being around them alot (such as male/female friends, close coworkers who work in close quarters, etc) or the person who is attached is very charismatic and charming and is looking for an affair and they get hooked.

[treefrogkate]

Sorry to have caused you such great pain with my reply here re: MY experiences with women. Best wishes for a swift recovery.

 

Wow. Just... wow. I'm done here.

[scotty77]

I am not trying to justify going after someone who is already taken but what about the individual who is shy or unattractive or for whatever reason doesn't date much or enter into relationships easily.What if all of a sudden they get that opportunity and they are faced with either being alone or unfortunately starting a relationship with someone already taken.

[amanduhc]

](*,) I am currently the "other woman" in a relationship with a MM. Its not nessacarily a "chase" for me, but rather the feelings that I fulfill something that he can't get from her. I do it because I want him. And I don't really feel bad about the SO because that is his wrong not me. Its kind of harsh, but it is him who is cheating not me.

[fnlyfrei]

](*,) I am currently the "other woman" in a relationship with a MM. Its not nessacarily a "chase" for me, but rather the feelings that I fulfill something that he can't get from her. I do it because I want him. And I don't really feel bad about the SO because that is his wrong not me. Its kind of harsh, but it is him who is cheating not me.

 

 

Wrong. You are cheating too. An equal partner. The fufilling things he can't get from her is the oldest line in the book. You are deluding yourself. If he is so unhappy he should divorce. It is legal. Then he could marry you and he could go on to tell the next honey that YOU aren't fufilling his needs...