Coily

Some things are better said in person, if he's still interested.

3 hours ago, Viewcart said:

When I confront this issue with him afterwards at home, he says I’m being selfish, socially awkward, and that I’m rude for saying we need to go in front of friends. He says he will decide when we leave and I need to deal with it and be sweet in front of others.

This confrontational side is part of why he reacts with you need to deal with it. There is a power imbalance, and you being confrontational afterwards puts him on the defensive. Most people will be contrarian and defensive after a night out riding the high of extroversion.

Now, I do not think you need to stay and be sweet, but you need to find a way to thread the needle of you wanting to get the heck out of there and him wanting to schmooze. This has to be done before you go to the social engagement. It could be a "hey I know how much you can chat it up, and I admire that, mind if I slip out and take a walk?" Butter him up and have a plan for some down time while he fixes the world's problems.

8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I mean they keep in touch or let them know if they need space. I think people who have whirlwinds of emotions, intense reactions, choose to show thoughtfulness and kindness to the people they care about despite feeling that way. Whether because of sex or otherwise.

Not always the case.  When doubts creep in sometimes you wonder should I bother someone? Will I accidentally sew more chaos? Will saying "It's not for me" after such levels of intimacy cause a blow up or ramifications?

It's never just cut and dry in some cases. In a perfect world you are correct, but here we are instead.

Unfortunately she just wanted to use you as a cure for her loneliness. When you visited, she had to face reality of you, and that you were a man willing to do the relationship hard work. Hard work that she was unwilling to reciprocate.

Perhaps it was a mistake making the visit happen, but then again you won't have her waste more of your time. I think you really welcomed the idea of someone from a similar cultural background to you, which made it easy for you to fall for her, especially as you are not in Bulgaria now.

As for steps going forward, don't beat yourself up. Plenty of people have become infatuated with someone they meet digitally, it can be very easy when you have a connection and are lonely. You should consider yourself freed of being her emotional tampon. While the rejection is fresh it's normal to be mad, upset, and empty, but how you go forwrd is what matters.

Best of luck to you, and do something good for yourself.

9 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

I didn’t say men ignore women because of hormones. But I read some articles saying that just after first sex men tend to be a bit distant until testosterone comes high again and they have the desire to court the woman again. I noticed that in my previous relationships also. That’s why I never jump to conclusions during the first and second day after first day with a man. But in OPs case, it’s different because he went completely silent… 

I have experienced this as a man, it's a whirl of emotions. There is a lot of sensory processing (a lot of it olfactory) for me coming down after sex. I can remember my first time, and there was a lot of confusion afterwards. Things like "Was it really that fun for her, was she really into what we were doing, Is she someone I want to do that again with? That was very vulnerable feeling." It was a hard brain shift from "Heck yeah lets have sex." If there is a long time between sexual activities, my brain still does this whole routine. It's weird to be honest.

4 hours ago, Batya33 said:

 Just like women let men know. 

They do? Mostly in jest, but some of the past GFs of mine were very very very bad at letting me know, unless the dreaded "It's fine."

I personally think tipping has gotten way out of hand. I'm getting requests from drive thru workers at my little home town BBQ place, sorry You're just handing me a bag!

I also hate tipping on apps for delivery, I shouldn't have to bribe someone just to consider taking my business, AND have some of it skimmed off by the card processor and app. I want to hand the driver a wad of cash.

Sex makes everything complicated, we can't really ascribe any motivations to this guy fairly. We can do pattern recognition.

My thinking is he was interested in sex and maybe more, but after sex his brain just switched off on the more. Happens for both sexes, heck happened to me on the receiving end, then got the "lets just be friends." Now it's not wrong to just ping him to see if he's alive so to speak, sometimes a massive all encompassing bit of life happens and people get lost in that. That said, don't initiate any plans for a date.

Unfortunately he didn't get more interested after sex, and that's a shame. The old line goes, "women gate keep sex and men gate keep relationships."

I hope you find someone who is right for you.

In regards to her, you will still get those moments from time to time, it's natural. Also thinking about what if is natural too; but those idle thoughts won't help your Son. So when you get those thoughts focus on what's best for your boy, who sounds like he has a great and loving dad.

I think others in the friend group see more friction than what the two of you are living. They aren't seeing you both are trying to do what's best for your son, and that will build more cordiality over time.

Are you married? Using "Partner" always begs the question.

How long have you been trying to address this with him?

It sounds like you are filled with resentment of this man, and that will only build given the lack of communication between you two. Have you two had a calm proactive conversation about how you feel or do these expressions of your needs only happen after you have reached a boiling point? If he is feeling defensive in this conversation, with his history, no doubt he will double down about not changing.

You do have a choice, you can end the relationship and start over, or you can stay and work on this (if possible). I hate to say many will just blindly jump at ending it (and I lean there myself for both your sakes), but you have to ask is there any return on investment from this relationship. Are there things you would deeply miss?

Cheating is always a scummy solution to relationship problems. Fix it or leave, don't drag anyone through the hades of cheating.

Great news! May two, and your family continue to improve.

The fantasies are no big deal in the grand scheme of things.

BUT, I have to ask is this desire to sleep around coming from your inner being, or is it being told it's so much fun?

This is a decision that you and only you can make. I have known plenty of people who would make good arguments either way. The couple who met at 15, still married with kids, and very successful. The couple who found each other atfer 45 who were happy and content. Conversely I know a couple who got married Freshman year of College, she started cheating on him to feel wild and free; and she also physically assaulted him before they divorced. Or the Older lady neighbor, who chased any man who would look at her twice and abandoned her kids.

We all know people of either side of the argument. The bigger problem is hearing outside forces tell you what to do, who don't have to live with the consequences of your actions.

This is a dead thread but still.

30 minutes ago, mylolita said:

This whole thread has highlighted what an absolute minefield it is for men. Some women seem more easy going like myself, can I be so bold as to say and don’t mind the looks compliment to start a conversation off, where as other women think they could do better, be more creative, and then at the other end of the spectrum we have stalker creepy human trafficker. You couldn’t get a more varied response from “I think you’re beautiful” or “I think you’re hot!”

I really like this! it's like playing Russian roulette in dating, men and women do have very very different experiences. Sometimes that needs to be hammered home in conversations like this.

It really boils down to how the OP reads the room. For the right woman he could go up and tell her she's "Hotter than asphalt in Pheonix" and she would love his number. On the other end He could say, "You have  a Ph.D. from MIT in astrophysics? Top of Your Class" and she would pepper spray him and have him arrested for being a peeping tom.

In conclusion? Come up with an approach that is right for the situation you are in.

I would be PO'd over this. It's your room, your bed, I wouldn't want it becoming a dog bed because the roommate sucks a decision making.

23 minutes ago, yogacat said:

If you read that hard, you will see that I say not **only** men. If anything, men can be a bit more understanding that someone somewhere is abusing women and imagine how it would feel to be that woman who is being degraded. But there are other men that have genuinely put in the thought of how women feel about this and are genuinely wanting to know the correct protocol to follow.

So, this opens this up if you are that man and still have altruistic motive towards women and don't have the thoughts revolving around a hidden agenda but wanting to improve themselves with respect to women and how they see beautiful strangers.

All of this! It's ever sifting sands as to what is appropriate for men to do or even how to act around women. Everything is contradictory it seems. What works in one setting will get the tarred and feathered in another.

Sure there are ground rules like no stalking, but the rest? You got me stumped. When a polite compliment is treated as heresy worthy of the Spanish Inquisition (which no one expects), it's baffling.

This thread has been rather illuminating about how mindboggling the dating world is for men these days.

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

Yes in that context it's nice as long as it's not the only compliment.  That's not a cold approach stranger.  

But it could be. Some people thrive on cold approach compliments. Everyone is different.

To throw some kerosene on the fire here.

A lot of men are trained to compliment women on looks. There is the cliche of a woman getting upset that her new haircut isn't noticed by her boyfriend or husband, or how that new cute dress looks on her. Or the deadly "Does this make me look fat?"

Boys see that in media, their homes, and life in general. There is a level of expectation that a man "must" compliment a woman on her appearance to some degree. Then to be told it's the most vile creepy thing, does confuse and frustrate men.  Sure it's taken to extremes, anything can be; but 90% of the time we don't know what the reaction will be. Even when the compliments are warmly welcomed, it can be as much of a shock to us as it is the woman receiving them.

Which all rolls back into; communication between men and women is always ***ly on first contact. One woman I went on a date with, was mad i didn't notice her dress or her hair specifically. I just said she looked nice.

47 minutes ago, Sweet Sue said:

The issue is her abusive disrespectful behavior and ultimatum, then angrily hanging up on me. The way I see it as manipulation and control. If there was only a way for me to see them without her drama, I would do it. 

I believe that showing up as planned would have only reinforced her manipulative behavior. It would never end and only get worse. She'll see it as "I can disrespect my mother, make her submit to ultimatums and she'll still come up here to visit." 

Where is the benefit of rewarding this kind of behavior?

Now, she is giving me another ultimatum. Unless my fiancee spends the entire visit in her home, he will no longer be welcome if he gets up to leave and go somewhere else. 

Who holds visitor's hostages in their home? 

At the same time, I missed spending the holidays with my grandchildren.

She's 40, not 14. You aren't rewarding her behavior, you are damaging the relationship with her and your Grandchildren to prove what exactly? That you are still in charge? That she needs to be taught a lesson? That rearranging the time your grand kids get to spend with their father is less important than Joe, some guy they don't really know is?

If a stranger is disruptive to a household, while maybe an extreme way to put it is not unwarranted.
Her house, her kids, her rules. Simple as.

5 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Lol, doubtful and unnecessary, I think throwing the drink in his face pretty much said it all! 🤣 

Great flick by the way!  Great performances by Hoffman and Lange.

Ah, 1982... when a glass of water did all the work. LOL Been ages since I saw that one.

Let's be frank here. How enough women take a compliment is very dependent on the man giving it. You could have the same identical compliment given from 4 different guys and the reaction would be wildly different.

Suave Hunky Dude-Bro's compliment could turn some women into jello.
Plain well put together man's compliment  could get water in his face (see above lol) or a date.
Meh looking guy's compliment gets him branded with "creepy" then social tarring and feathering.
Old grandfather's compliment "Oh how sweet, now eat your oatmeal."

The hypothetical compliment: "You look really cute in that dress."

All hyperbolic, of course. The salient point here is that sometimes a compliment is just a throwaway way to be polite. Social media has kind of ruined it, where you do get some men panting after women (just as some women drooling all over themselves will burst through walls like the kool-aid man to get Mr Hotty).

34 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Funny clip from the movie "Tootsie" with Jessica Lange and Dustin Hoffman (circa 1980s), the second half is priceless!!

Things haven't changed much in 30 years! 

 

Did she go on to say "how creepy" he was later? LOL

Fundamental incompatibility.

Glad the OP didn't let the comments hung up on the "hotness" side track his thinking or inquiry here.

As for the calling card idea, I'll still promote it, doesn't work for everyone though. Granted I'm a history nerd and will introduce the idea as "back in the day this was used for courting." I use it as a way to guide the conversation a bit, and to show off some layers of complexity in myself.

Also to hades with John-Ralphio. 🤣

I won't say I have given up, as much as I'm just very pessimistic about my chances anymore. I have been looking for years in about a 2 hour radius of me, which is a minor metro area, and I have been disappointed in the single women in regards to them being long term relationship material. I present myself well and put myself out there, the results are disheartening for a guy at 40.

It's also very easy to get discouraged as the most vapid people seem to bounce from relationship to relationship, or so it seems.

The best chances I have had are by expanding interests and following the advice regularly given here about getting involved, joining meet-up groups and the like.

Now I will say I think there is a shift in the pop-culture side of dating, which you are more likely to encounter. With vapid women especially there is the specious Triple 6 idea. 6 foot tall, 6 figure salary, and 6 pack; which I think you are using to dishearten yourself here. I have seen far too many women on dating sites who throw out "I want a man who is at least 6'" While they themselves are 4'11". LOL  Would you want to date someone that shallow?

There is also a very strange social phenomenon, at least to me, where the rules of dating and courtship are drastically different, but no one knows what those rules are.  Culture shifts in expectations, the rise of social media influencers, who run around saying you need X kind of Woman or Y kind of Man to be happy. It's all rubbish. However it does effect people in dating pools, sometimes subtly. There a naybobs with followings playing to "strong independent women", tradwives, MGTOW, and players; all corroding the ideas of someone you may run into in the street.

All of that said, don't give up. There are good normal women out there to date, it's an uphill battle to stay motivated.