Coily

Just now, TheRideNeverEnds said:

What? 

Sigh. Guess Apologetics  aren't your strong suit. Oh well.

21 minutes ago, TheRideNeverEnds said:

Once again im proven right, that most unbelievers dont care about ethics or morals. 

Have you? It seems you have picked a very sinful way of going about proving your point. Tristitia if I remember the Old church correctly. with some Ira for good measure.

I think you should write self help books! Cheers

1 minute ago, TheRideNeverEnds said:

 

 

No? You think anyone can just become a monk or what? Thats not how this works. 

Since you haven't discussed it with a monastery, how do you know?  And NO, not anyone can become a monk, you have to have humility and piety. Then every order is different, with different requirements.

2 minutes ago, TheRideNeverEnds said:

 

monasticism is only for able bodied. 

Have you discussed that with a monastery?

Have you considered a monastic life?

I had a freind who was a double amputee, had pancreatic cancer, constant pain, and he was engaged 3 times before he kicked off the mortal coil.

It's not looking positive, but i would just ask for a proper date. Nothing super cliche like candle light dinners etc, etc. You asking her for a date is more about just knowing and never wondering "what if."

While I agree with the above, that she is creating distance. Even if she flat out says no, or plays the stressed card; you know not to waste your time and energy on her. She has been occupying headspace that could be better used pursuing a woman who is interested in you.

Asking will set you free after months of wondering.

6 hours ago, Lackdaisy said:

She says that it makes her feel bad when I buy her stuff and I offer to support her and she always over stresses herself trying to pay me back. It's like she has this mental thing about being supported by me but she thinks it's okay for her parents to support her because they owe it to her because of all of the abuse.

This makes a lot of sense in how she's acting. She has been basically cult programed to think money and obligations are tied together. Some people in this type of situation tend to fear being given gifts or support as they view this as you buying them.

Going forward I think leaving this part of the equation out of you talking with her will benefit you. It would be better to offer her help in ways that she would be fully independent financially. So rather than offering to help with a place to live, or insurance, or any other support; look for job and career opportunities. Help her network and get in-industry contacts. It's really the hardest thing to watch, because you want to help, but you have been going about it the way her parents control her.

If you truly care for her. support her in creative and constructive ways, not as a provider.

I think your friend may have had too much help. Not from you specifically, though you are suffering as a consequence, but rather she hasn't had to face the consequences of her bad actions until she ended up in the hospital. I get wanting the best for a friend, but sometimes helping is the last thing.

I had a friend with a severe drinking problem, he ruined his marriage, nearly lost his job; and I tried to be helpful. Then one evening, I realized that I was enabling some of this behavior, and cut him off. It took 3 years and we're hanging out again after he's cleaned his life up a bit. It was one of many shocks he had that year that got him to take charge of himself.

So think of this boundary as another kick start she needs to help herself, not you being a jerk.

It's a pure ego thing on her part. She was feeling bad about herself, so she decided she needed to put someone else down. You were an easy target in her mind, and she was hoping that you still had some lingering feelings about her that she could make you feel poorly about yourself. Rather infantile on her part.

The closest I ever came, was a woman I went on one date with, emailed me 2 years later. She said something along the lines of "I know you still think of me, but I'm getting married. It's time to let go." I had to ask her who she was.

Something I have been pondering on with this, as I'm navigating a difficult friendship myself at the moment.

In my case my friend is more in your position; the nature of communication has changed from him. We used to discuss in-depth topics, used to talk about where we were in our lives, troubles at work, and irreverent humor etc. I stepped back my communication out of respect with his changes in life, the topics started shifting to more bland things, now it's basically texts about instagram posts.

I don't know if that was a conscious shift, or accidental in what he wants to talk about; but I have no interest in these very surface level interactions. The conversations went from meaningful to little more than a bit of social media spam. Which leads me to wonder if there is an unconscious shift between the two of you? Could she is perceiving your communication style as missing something? Throw in her mental health, and maybe she can't quite grasp why these changes have happened?

Really sorry to hear about your father. Wishing you and your mum all the best in this turmoil.

I don’t envy you having to navigate a delicate friend here. Having dealt with a former friend with diagnosed BPD, it’s a bumpy ride. So from my experience, I would suggest that you gently but firmly broach how unnecessary the silent treatment is. 

Mix in how you value the friendship, in my case it helped keep the shifting of gears to building up thinking there was an accusation hidden in the discussion.

I would also lay out what’s going on with your family, in overly boring but also vague detail. To keep them feeling like they still had your confidences.

TLDR: Ensure that your friend feels like they still have a place in your life, but you remain firm about your expectations. 

It’s unfortunately easy for people like this to think things are shifting into an accusation, and unless you reassure on details.

Just now, Tinydance said:

So you're saying ANY reason? The reason doesn't actually need to be good or valid? 

. As I said before as long as it’s not abuse or commission of a criminal act, any reason. 
If this was the child’s mother objecting, would you have a different answer? Not wanting to put you on the spot.

2 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Well this is a 30 something adult being immature and petty. Basically being an a - hole. And all you guys seem to be taking his side? I don't get it?

Since we don’t know the background, calling him immature or petty or anything else is silly. For all we know the Son could be a cop and found out the new BF is a convicted pedo. (Hopefully hyperbolic statement, no offense to the OP) If a parent has any reason to not allow a stranger around their child, I’m with the parent.

So yeah, until we know anything about why. We’re just going off our inclinations.

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

OK so let's say a parent is against a particular race or background and the child wants to be friends with another child who is of that race. And the parent says to their child they can't be friends. Isn't her son basically doing the same thing? Unless the new partner is a bad person in some way or has done something wrong then there is no reason for her son to hate him. He hates him simply based on the fact that his mother left his Dad and is now dating this man. I actually might consider this abuse because the control being exerted has no reason for it and is simply for selfish gain. I.e. To punish his mother.

I think using race is a poor and needlessly distracting argument for your point. 
Again since we don’t know enough, for all we know the new BF could be a clone of the ex-husband. So no, this is the furthest thing from abuse, nor is it necessarily selfish.

I don’t want to conjecture on things, the OP has enough on her plate navigating this. But if the son doesn’t want his daughter to be exposed to someone, his reasons are irrelevant.

19 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

Is there some kind of back story with your separation from your husband? I'm assuming it ended on very bad terms? I find it surprising that literally all your kids have turned against you for leaving your ex-husband. If they're in their 30's then why are they acting immature and making it all about them. This was your relationship that was between you and your husband. If you didn't love him anymore then why did you have to be with him just to please your (adult) children?

I actually think that your son can't just 100% control his daughter like this. She's not a little kid  she's a teenager and becoming a young woman. He can't just dictate her whole life and he's not her only parent. She has a mother as well and her mother is fine with her meeting your boyfriend. He's not just a one time Tinder date - he's your serious partner of two years.

I mean, of course a parent needs to step in if their child is under bad influence or some kind of danger. Like, if your granddaughter wants to hang out with 18-year-olds or go to a party with drugs or alcohol. But your son can't just control every single aspect of her life and especially if he has no good reason for it.

I strongly and respectfully disagree with this.  Her children are acting as they see fit from the knowledge they have and we don’t, calling them immature doesn’t mean much from the outside.

Also respecting her son’s wishes as to raising his daughter is vitally important. Again we don’t know enough, but a parent’s’ choice should be respected as long as it’s not abusive. Sure once the daughter is legally an adult that’s one thing, but that’s not the case.

I have to speculate that there are some hard feelings towards you being so happy to be separated from your children's father. Your son may feel that it is in a way you are rejecting him and feeling that you blame him for your unhappiness. I have nothing to back that up, but it is a possibility you need to consider in how you approach this situation.

Smackie got me to thinking along those lines. Maybe you should write your son a letter about why you sought separation, then read it back for quite a while, maybe never even send it. But spend time refining for your children your position. I would go out on a limb and also mention the positive qualities of their father you see reflected in your children.  Again this letter is more for you than them, but it will help you think through this.

A quick anecdote from a similar situation at Uni.

Girl I was interested in kept me in orbit in one program, short term one; I asked her out on dates and she agreed to go out. However, she would always back out. We did this 3 times over the course of a few months. Her best friend of many years came up to me, told me to run as I was being used by her to get passing grades in the course. I withdrew from all interactions, rather bruised ego.

Subsequently those two as friends had a big blow up argument on campus, and the gal I orbited dropped out as her grades tanked when she couldn't honey pot help. It was a strange lesson, but one well learned.

Now I'm not saying this is your case OP, but rather a story of mine where I had to learn some un-fun lessons.

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

He did, she (in essence) said no. 

Late to the party. Haha

Doing some quick catch up, Yeah... that ambiguity... I'd be done with trying. Cutting severely back on all interactions that weren't program related. Maybe I'm a bit jaded, but when things get into that orbiter territory I tend to run for the hills and never look back.

Then again I'm single so what do I know? lol

I think, regardless of how awkward things could be in Uni; you have to just rip the band aid off and ask her on a proper date. Be up front that it's a date, regardless of what you choose to do (drink, dinner, dancing, whatever).

I say this as a guy who has one too many "if only I could have figured things out better" ladies in my past; the most liberating moments came from knowing one way or the other. It gets your head straight on how to behave around her and if you are being sucked into the orbit of an emotional black hole.

Be bold, be confident, and be done with guessing.

It is far better to ask him if he would like to study with you, or hang out; than just battering him with a confession. It's okay to say "you like him" or think "he's handsome", but don't get carried away with "love" or other words that make him feel you expect him to reciprocate.

As he's a teenage boy, he (like most men) won't pick up on subtle flirting and lingering glances. That stuff  only works in the movies and fiction.

Expect that he won't feel the same way, rejection is harsh; but is also a good education.

9 minutes ago, Shycarrot said:

"On one hand I want to suggest that you try to push more to keep the lines of communication open, but it's difficult when you feel suddenly unwelcome." What do you mean by that ?

More or less, You should try to maintain contact with your friend with a reduced frequency than in your past. It sometimes gets discouraging when you get rebuffed by that friend  as they can change their behaviors and communication styles. Sometimes it feels like you are intruding into their life, and one can feel unwelcome, unintentionally.

Having seen something similar to this in my life I think you need to be circumspect about this whole situation. Sounds like she is looking for an escape from her controlling parents, and you fit the bill. You may have fallen for her, and she may be affectionate towards you, but this is may not be long term.

Take into account that her saying her parents threaten her with being cut off from insurance if she disobeys, where you have been acting as a surrogate parental figure. Probably showing her more unconditional kindness than she is used to; which translated into romantic feelings due to her age/lack of experience.  Where you are all in as you have fallen for her.

Sometimes it works out, but very very rarely. One case I had witnessed was a marriage and then divorce as they were too different once they began married life. I fear that may be similar to your situation. It's not the age difference as much as it's different places in life.

TLDR: She is being held back by her parents and you are her escape from them.

It's your son's decision who his daughter interacts with in family situations. Nothing you should really do about it, other than respect his wishes and try working on repairing that relationship with him.