GoingForIt_77

Since Wednesday afternoon, she is at a completely different place in herself now. It's as if she was asleep, or forced herself to be blind to what was happening to us, or more specifically how I was treating her. Wednesday morning she was still loving, but I still pushed, even though things WERE getting better and that's what broke the camels back and she's been gone ever since.... She did confuse me with her being open to emails, yet, she never replied to the one I sent her 27-28 hours ago. Not that it was an email that required an answer. In fact, it was an email that was an apology for having gone to her work. Something I shouldn't have done in the first place. even before that, she wasn't sure if we should keep in touch by email (a day after having wrote me that it was okay to do so)... It seems that each day that passes, she becomes more and more sure of her decision, where as until Wednesday, she told me that her love for me grows stronger every day. I believe both to be true... I am very curious to see if in fact she WOULD reply to an email of mine, if I were to ask her a question, or would she go against her own word and erase me completely, saying she wouldn't. I do need her support, but I fear that the longer she stays away, the easier it will be to forget about the love she has for me and to focus on the pain and the hurt and let that be her chief feeling (numbness), which is what she felt her entire life, before I opened up her heart.

Thing is, with my ex-abusive gf, I always hoped and wished she would truly get help and change and start treating me well (when I would leave her).. The closest I was to doing what my now ex is doing with me, was when she scared me enough for me to cease the contact (3 weeks), which was very difficult for me. I told her if she did not get help there would be no us. During that time, she would email me on a daily basis, telling me about her progress (keeping me in the loop). I remember after 3 weeks, she said I need to at least speak to you on the phone and that she couldn't keep doing this (being away from me). Her pressure and my fear that I was going to lose her, made me go back to her prematurely, at which point she stopped her therapy and started up again and got even worse...Nothing but PAIN... My ex is doing something I was never able to do (walk away from the one I loved). I know that this can't be easy on her. Do I need her support and her attention and warmth? Of course, but I understand where she is at. I really do. Scary thing is, she is friends with that abusive ex's younger sister...

Just for the record, I have been the abused as well with a previous relationship I had. She was verbally, emotionally, pshychologically and physically abusive towards me. VERY controlling, mean and scary. I was a scared little boy with her. I never fought back. Didn't have it in me to do so, so I know what my ex is going through. I really do.

She knew I was seeing him once a week. I was trying to remain positive with the treatments. 50 sessions were being covered by insurance and so I stuck with it, but I found myself regressing and trapped and yes, I was learning to let go with her in MANY ways, which made her very happy (me too), but I was also becoming a nervous and paranoid wreck. I was cracking and I didn't know what was happening inside of me. I was scared to just let her in sometimes. When things were going too well, I didn't feel at ease, even though those are the moments I cherish the most. I still love her with all my heart, as does she (what she said to my sis last night), but I questioned her feelings/sincerity. I was insecure, even though she was different... I miss her.

Thank you Sarah. That's what you tell someone who is alone and grieving on a board, after he was just left? I know why she left, but I have already admitted that my actions were responsible for pushing her away (scaring her and hurting her). I am suffering the loss right now. She would be right beside me now listening to music with me, bobbing our heads together. I am ALONE right now crying, reaching out to you guys... She is alone right now too and I love her and that hasn't stopped. My fears and insecurities drove me to do and say things I am not proud of at all. I am not making excuses for that.

Faking Treatment??? I'm getting a lot of angry women trying to tear me apart on here. You know, what you are doing is quite "abusive" in your own rights right now. Nothing about my treatment was FAKE. I worked very hard in my sessions with a man who never had anything to say to me... There was a lot of frustration and hard times with that and MANY times I told my ex that she should leave me, because of what I had to get a hold of. She refused to want to leave. She said that I could NOT get rid of her. That she would support me through good and bad... Nothing about me is fake. I am a genuine guy, with a big heart and maybe I am controlling and insecure. I don't claim not to be and I am trying very hard to work on that. It is difficult and that is a fact... Me loving her (being in love with her) doesn't necessarily equate to me just wanting to control her. there is goodness in me too.

Sarah, I did NOT hold a gun to her head when she spoke with me for an hour and 20 minutes on Friday night and you do NOT know what our conversation consisted of. She was calling me babe and hugs and plenty of love you's..... Restraining order??? She broke up with me on Wednesday late after (that morning before the argument she called me 5 times to tell me she loved me).. I tried to reconcile with her at her place later that day (as we've done with each other in the past). She was too hurt to see me... Thursday was the only real day that I lost control and called her too many times, YET, that same night she sent ME an email, yes, reiterating her fear and hurt, but said she will still keep in CONTACT with me via email and that she was OPEN to that. Restraining order??? Friday night I did NOTHING at all... We spoke on MSN for almost 1.5 hours. It went VERY well. She actually enjoyed it (probably a little too much and so she blocked me)... Restraining Order??? Stalker?? Yesterday... I made a mistake and went to her work... I apolized and have done nothing since (24 hours)... Please don't let out your frustrations on me Sarah. I don't know what you're going through in your respective life, but I did not come on here to be put down by someone who's telling me I am responsible for putting someone else down. I am respecting her. I have done nothing at all since having visited her yesterday. I know that was wrong and now she knows that I know that too... She will not see anymore of that type of irratic and scary behavior come out of me...

Carnelia, I understand what you are saying and the answer is of course no. I do not think it is fair to be subjected to me when I am critical/controlling and lose my cool. Painting me out to be a monster of sorts is also not fair I think, because I am a good person too and she knows it and I know it. I know my actions were wrong and I know they hurt her and they scared her and this kills me.. Was I fully in control during those moments? No. I was weak. I have been seeing a therapist for a year next month and he is a quack. He does nothing but sit there and listen and falls asleep sometimes as well... I am seeing someone new (since the break-up). I took immediate action.. Do I blame her for being where she is now? No, I do not. Do I still want to keep in contact with her. Yes, I do. Part of me still would love to have her support through it all, even if it's from a very FAR distance (a safer place for her to be right now)..

She is definitely in auto-defense (protection mode) right now... My gut tells me that she also blocked my sister after their conversation. My sister hasn't seen her online since and my ex should have been on for the last 2 hours... That's fine with me though if she blocked my sis.. She needs to sort through her feelings and she is trying to regroup and calm herself down. She is nervous and in pain now (so am I) and doesn't/CAN'T reach out for me, even though a good part of her probably wants to... As everyone on here is telling me to not do anything for a while, I still want to interpret the "email" things which she said she was "okay" with, even though she is not really replying to mine.. This confuses me, probably because she is confused and doesn't know what the right thing to do is... I don't think she's ready to cut ALL ties between us just YET, however, she doesn't initiate (obviously) and doesn't even know how to respond yet either.. She needs time (so do I). I do believe if I send her an email with an actual question, she WILL respond, but.....

Thank God I did not do TOO much damage POST-break-up. To recap, Wednesday: (day of breakup): Went to her appartment after the final call to tell her I loved her. She couldn't talk to me (she was too broken apart). Thursday: Just too many calls on my part...me not asking her to reconsider, but just asking her not to erase me completely...I was crying during most of these messages. I sent her a couple of email. I got HER first response. An email telling me she still loves me, but is too scared to give me another chance and that she can still be there in email contact only (her comfort level). Friday: I waited 24 hours and replied to her email.. She went to bed not having replied to it... At 3:00am I see her on MSN (she forgot to block me probably).. I asked her if she'd like to chat. She agreed. A great hour and 20 minute conversation.. Saturday: Had my head in my * * * * * and went to say hi to her at her work. She cried and asked me to leave...(Big Mistake)...Sent her 2 emails apologizing (1st one making excuses for my actions and the 2nd one, saying there are none). That was 24 hours ago... All in All, I was a bit in her face, but nothing HORRIBLE... I will NOT continue to push.. She didn't say NO to emails. In fact, she said it was okay both myself and to my sister, but if I push for the email thing, she will change her mind on that too... Meanwhile, I am starting my help this week.

The less she reaches out for my support now, the less she will need it in the future. You see, because the love is still there on her part, I know she is hurting A LOT. I saw it in her eyes yesterday... I believe there are two things happening in her right now: 1. The Desire (the hope) that I could change and be the man she loves ALL THE TIME, which would reduce, or diminish her fear, which is why she stays away... 2. The Desire to NOT look past what I "DID" to her and to hold on to it and use as fuel and reason to stay away and allow the love to go away in the process (move on)... Those are two very different wants/needs. There is also the aspect of what she REALLY wants deep down (to get over the hurt and the fear and give into her feelings she still has for me) and what she is forcing herself/convincing herself (I helped in the process) to want (to not forgive me, let go and move on)... The struggle is within her. I am responsible for putting it in her. Now can my present actions ease the struggle she is experiencing within her?

Just read this post and I have gotten better this time around (past ex's I really took things too far when they fled). My ex and I just broke up last Wednesday. I immediately went to her appt. She did not let me in and so I left. the next day I called her MANY time from 7:30am until 10:00pm. she emailed me that night, telling me the reasons why she left. she still loves me, but my lack of control over my emotions (losing my temper) and being overly critical and hurtful at times pains her too much and she has to protect herself... I left it alone for 24 hours and then sent her a short reply... She was online later that night. She agreed to chat with me. It went well. I was so encouraged that went to her store yesterday and NO, she wasn't happy to see me. It hurt her too much. She started crying and asked me to leave... I sent her an email apologizing. I've done nothing since.. If I take a step back and let her breathe she will start to look at how I am NOT chasing her.. I guess it's the all or nothing at all attitude that gets us into trouble. that and having very little patience. Don't control them. Control ourselves and they'll see it/know it and will make them less scared and feel more at ease...

It was not a mutual friend, but my sister who had this conversation with my ex yesterday night. Nothing in there anyways that she personally hasn't told me herself since Wednesday... I am leaving things in my ex's court... I will continue with my therapy and until told not to, I may send her an email asking her how her grandmother is doing?" (she's dying), or good luck with her classes" (she starts school this Thursday)... I will be light. I will be short and in good spirits. I will put NO pressure on her at all. I will act independent. I won't be nearly as needy as she's expecting me to continue to be, which is NOT a turn on at this stage for her... If she wants to bridge the gap, then she'll have to and NOT because she is WORRIED about me (pity), but because she genuinely misses me and is CURIOUS...

Thomas, you and I are in the EXACT same boat. With my ex for 4 month. I treated her better than anyone in her life ever had (gave her confidence in herself, telling her I believe in her, am proud of her and to never take sh%t from anyone), YET, I would also be critical, question her loyalty, devotion, love, sincerity and lose my temper with her (raise my voice and once broke my towel rack in the bath).... Needless to say, after 4 months of sticking by me and supporting me, non-judgemental, non-demanding, understanding, affectionate, nurturing and loving I pushed her TOO far and her fear of getting hurt OUTWEIGHED the good and she had to leave to protect herself from the man who was supposed to protect her.... The break-up occurred on Wednesday. Since then she has completely withdrawn and distanced herself. She was willing to keep lines of communication open (because there is still love there on her part, which was NEVER the issue according to her) by emails ONLY. She does NOT want to talk on the phone (I tried) and she does NOT want to see me in person (I tried twice)... We had a great MSN conversation on Friday night which she was open to, but the very next day I was back in her face and since then I was blocked off her MSN (not deleted)... She is still somewhat open to emails for NOW (her words), but has yet to reply to one since Thursday night. Of course I love her and I KNOW I lost control and mistreated her at times.. I am seeking help now, but don't want to lose her completely. Right now she is scared, confused, hurt and my pressure has not helped. She was open to MSN, but I ruined that... I am the type of guy who wants it ALL right NOW and I push, push, push.... She is too scared to be with me, because she can't see past what I did, even though she still loves me with all her heart and so, I have to go at HER pace, which is tough to do. The dynamic has changed, but patience and respecting her and YOUR ex is CRUCIAL my friend if we want to SHOW them with our ACTIONS that they can begin to trust us again, even if they say they DON'T want to anymore..

Here is a REAL MSN Conversation someone close to me had with MY EX LAST NIGHT. I just quoted her end of the dialogue and NOT the questions that were posed. You'll see where she is coming from now. This is FAR different than the MSN conversation her and I had the previous night: he didn't go because he was upset. he showed up at my work today unannounced and I made him leave he showed up at my appartment not long after I broke up with him and he called me too many times to count the following day from about 7:30 in the morning until 10pm at night, along with sending me a few emails as well, so yes he's chasing and I can't handle it. things just weren't always as good as they should have been. he has a bad temper without the ability to always have control over it. loved him and I still do - my feelings were never in question here. I just decided I needed to put myself first (something HE taught me to do). I don't deserve to be with someone where I feel scared most of the time. he's the one who gave me the confidence to believe i myself and to protect myself when I need to, but I don't think he thought I'd end up protecting myself from him. well he's been losing it since shortly after we started dating. the only difference is he got more aggressive. other than that he seemed to be getting better emotionally the longer we were together. note that I said 'seemed' his demons apparently still came out because he'd still yell at me and pick fights and put me down. and he'd still overreact to things and become aggressive, but it still seemed better other times because the great times were just amazing. but that doesnt justify having treated me the way he did. it may explain it but nothing justifies it. that bathroom is also where he was most aggressive, or 'violent' i suppose i should say. not with me (thank god) but in front of me. I'm staying in contact a bit through email but I can't do more than that. I'm doing my best right now but I can't do talk with him on the phone. yes. and I talked with him on msn last night although I didn't want to. I love him with all my heart, but there's too much pain and hurt and fear there that I didn't deserve. after a lifetime of it the man I love isn't supposed to give it to me too. if I want to stop hurting and if I want to eventually move on then I need to let that love go. As much as I don't want to, I have to and using that love to nurture him and help him heal will only make it that much harder for both of us after to let go I'm not looking it at it as a relationship now because there isn't one, but the feelings do exist he always questioned my loyalty, my love, my devotion, my honesty, everything. he questioned who i was as a person which is what hurt the most because I felt he knew me better than anyone but the fact that he showed up there wasn't something good and the gazillion phone calls weren't either and nor was showing up at my work today he may have been soft but having him do those things still hurt explaining things as best as he could and apologizing for hurting me. it not the content of everything so much as how it was done. it was overwhelming and scary to be bombarded like that and then after last night having told him I wasn't even ready to speak with him on the phone having him show up at my work today it was too much I'm already in my last 2 weeks at this job and I'm under other stress as well and it was just so painful today but let me tell you he scared me more than that man ever did (the man who raped me) and that's a very scary and alarming thing for me I have put aside some of my hurt, that's why I was able to talk to him last night on msn and email him back. more than that I cannot do but I will keep those channels open for a while longer with him. at least the emailing. Right he’s blocked on my MSN. I'm not ready to talk to him like that again. especially after him being at my work today. When I’m ready to unblock him I will. this is all rather overwhelming along with other things in my life and I'm only going to do things as I feel ready to do them. It’s the best I can do. he's still the same man who hurt me and put me down and makde me feel helpless. whether he'd continue to do that isnt the issue - it's been done. it can't b reversed or taken back and i owe it to myself to not look past it, which is why I broke up with him and which is why I can't ever be with him. I know he is essentially good, but that doesnt change things. time won't make me go back to him and I don't think he realized that. it's still something that I needed to address. if I do anything it will be tomorrow. I'm not cutting him out completely yet, im keeping emails open. it's all i can do right now We had a lot of fun together, but there were just as many crappy times too. I miss the happiness. but i know that a lot of the time the happiness seemed magnified because of the other things and I miss the warmth and love and I miss the sweet dan. not the rest of it. we had the most romantic new years eve but it was followed by the worst fight ever the next morning and him freaking out in the bathroom so it put a shadow over it

Dako, I don't know what to respond to that other than you are 100% right. The proof is in our MSN conversation. I was supportive. Whenever she would blame me, I accepted it. Slowly her walls came down right before my eyes... Not working at changing her (in this case her decision) always led her to be more at ease with me and just plain allowed her to be HER... I'm most happiest when I don't control, but as she once put it, when things go well is when I push/pick. I'm sure she doesn't know where I am at right now... Yes, she knows that I am being very hard on myself, but what she is not expecting is to see me respect her, because very little in what I did since Wednesday was respectful... I do still love her and would love to have a second chance with her (on my road to getting help) and I will not lie about that though.

Ellie, I completely understand what you said and I do agree... Having stayed in a relationship with me the way I was going was NOT healthy for her, even though there were amazing time and lots of happiness. However, I am going for help now. Am I helped at this stage? Of course not. I once dated someone who I loved with all my heart (as my current ex does), who was VERY abusive towards me (verbally, emotionally and physically as well). It KILLED me to be treated that way by the one I loved. I DID break up with her, as much as my now ex has broken up with me.... During that time, I loved her and missed her. I told her if she wants to have any future with me, she needs to get help. She showed signs of remorse and hurt for hurting me. During the time she was getting help (I kept in very minimal contact with her (exclusively by email)....I did give her HOPE during this time, because I DID love her and I realized that was she had done to me was out of her control and that's why she was seeking out help. Needless to say, she never sought out help and was just as bad as she had been before and I made many mistakes, to the point that after SHE would hurt me, I would have to make her come back to ME.... It was dysfunctional and it broke me down.... NOW, where I am at with my current ex is a very similar place from the standpoint that I KNOW I hurt/scared her. NO, I have very little to NO control over my actions and that is why I am seeking out help, which I am sincere about (unlike that former ex of mine)...Am I asking her to support me through this? I tried, but did not demand it. Is she giving me hope if I get better that she'll reconsider? No. If I do start changing will she be able to see past what I DID to her? Right now it seems like she doesn't WANT to overlook it and mostly because "I" taught her to never take sh%t from people. I am NOT begging her to come back. We both know that love is there. She is hurting now. She is staying away for various reasons. I made her have to go away, but as I see it, it is my CURRENT actions that will have a large contributing factor on how far she goes away from me (without wanting to check in, to see where I am at (with my progress of course)).... If she not only sees changes in me, but FEELS them and can feel safe in my presense, in whatever limited amount of contact we have, can this allow her to be able to further see past what I "DID" to her?

I know I'm posting a lot here, but this feeling doesn't go away that my ex is SCARED to give in to her good feelings now and is scared that if we have a good conversation, or if we talk and share the love that's still there, that she will not be able to stick to her plan, because of her conscious decision. So, in essense, she is depriving herself of good feelings to focus only on the bad, so that it will be easier to stay away from me and NOT get weak and give into her feelings of wanting to even reach out... Is there a way to allow her to not feel so guilty in giving into her feelings? Is the fear of her being weak and going against what she said (knowing she allowed herself to be hurt by me) stopping her, or is it the fear of getting hurt again stopping her? In the meantime, love is STILL there on both our parts, but being denied, in hopes that it will DIE. Will NC help her love for me die, or will it strengthen it, by me giving her space, so she can focus on the good to, without me reminding her of it all the time?

Also, what she is hoping for, is that her LOVE will go away and she feels as long as her and I are in contact that the love is undeniable and SO, she is depriving both her and I of it, so that she HOPES or WANTS it to go away and then once it's gone, she could move on. I don't think she is READY to move on just yet, because of the love, but pushing for more contact, WILL push her further away, which will speed up the process of her moving on. If I stand back, play it cool. Give her space, what will happen. Will she be able to get over that love as she wants to? Does it work that way? She seems to want to hold on to the bad things now, because it's THAT and only THAT which keeps her from falling back in my arms and conceding to her feelings for me. It seems like lose lose here. She is NOT open to a future, even if the love is there and even if what she saw come out goes away, BECAUSE now she is angry that I did THAT to her and not so much the fear that it could have again.... Thoughts?

Thank You Lily, In regards to corresponding even by email, well, that's also very much on her terms, because even though it was HER who said we can do that, she's not even replying to my emails and I believe that after having visited her today at her work (unannounced and hurting her in the process), she has now blocked me on her MSN... I don't believe that she has FULLY eliminated me just yet, however, her boundaries are definitely set. NO phone. No visits in person. Email was acceptable and until last night so was MSN... You see, I know she still loves me. That's in the way she looked at me today and in actuality even based on how she is eliminating me right now. She can't deal with me, because she is still hurting VERY MUCH and she wants to feel the FEAR and keep it on the forefront right now. She wants to keep her guard up. She really loves me, but sees now that I taught her to stand up for herself and so what she is doing now, is doing just that. She now feels she deserves more than being treated well most of the time and she does, but she is in a frame of mind that she doesn't WANT to look past it and seems that she is growing more resentful towards what I did and that is really clouding the good feelings she has for me. That could be because of continued attempt at trying to keep in touch, which she has YET to say NO to fully, in fear that maybe she would be making a mistake by cutting all ties, cause that could be a potential mistake, OR, she may be keeping this sliver of communication open, because she feels it's what "I" need and not her and seeing she still loves me, she doesn't want to deny me of that, even though she's really giving me NO attention. She won't talk to me on the phone. She asks me to leave when I visited her and she is now not even replying to a simple email. It could be she also is angry at me... Will me staying out of her way diminish that anger. Like if I play a disappearing act for a bit? Have I been crowding her too much since Wednesday and this is NOT allowing her to look at the good?

See Tijuana, I used to be on here. You can consider me a Veteran poster of sorts. I just rejoined as a new member, because I am back to square one. I am SO aware of NC. In fact, I was the first person to talk about it in 2002 when this site was just starting up.... I believe that NC serves a great purpose and that's to regroup one's emotions and to get stronger, so you don't MESS up in your ex's eyes and say the wrong things. In other words, it's done so we can lose that emotiona, clingy and overly dependent that REPELLS our ex's. I see nothing wrong with Contact as long as it's done wisely. One must become aloof and give emotional fulfillment, while seeking nothing (remaining independent). Attraction is based on all of those factors and we all possessed them in abundance when we met our ex's for the first time. It's not secret that we need to get back to OURSELVES in order to have any chance of offering our ex's anything substantial and worthwhile and that's what NC does for US. I am not denying the fact that it has a healing effect on our ex's as well. It doesn't necessarily bring down their defenses persay, but they may be more open to us after we have demonstrated that we CAN live without them. When they stop seeing us run after them, we immediately take the carpet form under their feet and we are revered as being more secure in ourselves, HOWEVER, to believe that our ex's will miraculously chase us is FALSE hope, because for the most part, THEY WON"T. They left us for valid reasons. If we want them back, we must YES, correct those issues, but we need to be able to show them those changes and thereforeeee, I am a firm advocate of re-initiated contact when you get to a point where you are strong enough to not be bothered by the outcome of your efforts, because not caring is what usually has them turn their heads in the end, isn't it? We care TOO much now. That is the problem. We demonstrate low-esteem and they are turned off by that.

Well, I never tried space since the break-up. I'll try it out for at least a bit and see what happens. I need her to start seeing that I am respecting her.

I think her fear is larger than her love, or as long as the fear is there, she can't give into her feelings and that's why she left me. She already made her decision. She could not live with the fear of being scared and getting hurt and I DON'T blame her. I couldn't live with myself being like that either. I told her that everytime I had one of my "episodes" I would die a little more inside as well and that's why I CANNOT EVER do that again. My health, sanity and happiness are too on the line..... My concern is that LOVE is a BOND two people form and the more time they spend with each other the stronger the bong (the love) grows. When someone walks away from someone, or in my case, he haven been forced to leave, isn't it inevitable that being away from the fire will lessen her chances of wanting to return to it? Isn't it safer to stay away, while at the same time, the bond we formed (the good feelings) will diminish with her detachment of her feelings for me and the shared times that become only memories and not new experiences being made?

Thing says: "You made sure she knows how you feel about her, and now its time to let her do the same." Thing is, hasn't she already told me how she feels about me. She's made it clear that she loves me, but it's her fear of me hurting and scaring her again that has grown to a proportion that she now refuses/cannot overlook. This is what I am working with. A girl who is VERY in love with me, but also scared of me. Part of her feels that she should not have given up on me (she told me last night). I told her that I didn't blame her for giving up and in fact, she didn't give up on me. I told her that "I" gave up on me with my actions towards her. How do I lessen that fear in her of me? How do I get past a wall that took me so long to allow crumble when in the relationship with her, but it did eventually crumble and now it's back up stronger than EVER.

Hey Tijuana (Muchos Gracias mi Amigo)... Let me ask you this... She knows what's best for her: To be treated well (like I promised her I would and did for the most part, but not all of the time). She will step back (once given the space to do so) and will realize that she loved (loves) me when I don't let my fears/insecurities RULE me, but her conflict is that the fear I instilled in her is SO great that she always FEARS that it will come out and that HURTS her, because she loves me and it's that FEAR of getting hurt that is now FORCING her to distance herself from me. Now, I am taking responsibility for my actions and am seeking out the help needed, but how much of her will allow herself to see the changes that will be occurring within me? How can I put her more at ease with who I will become (which is really me without my own fears (which is what drove her away), while respecting whatever decision she makes (even if it means she sticks with her current one on a long-term basis)? She is in a NUMB place right now. HER EXACT WORDS. She is numbing herself because all she feels is pain. She also has a dying grandmother (she found this out only yesterday). She didn't seek me out for support for that, but did talk to me last night on MSN.... I would love for her to begin to believe in me again and that's what I'm really trying to get at here...