GoingForIt_77

I don't want to be the stalker ex-guy. I was the independent guy in the relationship. I never chased her. I never liked to show her my weak side and since Wednesday I've fallen apart completely in her eyes. I'm everything now that I fought so hard against becoming... Thank God it's only been since Wednesday and we did have a good conversation last night on MSN. Granted, my actions from today, ie: going to say hi to her at her work (which is something I used to surprise her with all the time anyways), to calling her once right after and then one weak email and trying to undo that with a tougher one. The facts are she is being MUCH stronger than me right now. This is a decision I FORCED her into making and not one she wanted to have to make. She loves me and I don't want to even kill those feelings and cloud her good feelings for me, with everything I am doing now (losing it). I just miss her so much, but she must miss what we had too. If I keep up THIS sh%t, then I will be forcing her to not even think about the good. Do I really want to be doing that? NO. I should have left it at what it was last night (MSN conversation) for at least a few days and then have waited patiently for her email letting me know when we can do the exchange for our belongings. I have to get control of MYSELF.

I felt that my previous email to her was a cop-out, almost asking her excuse my actions from today, when in fact I should NOT be doing that at all. I should not have gone today. It was wrong and I should not cry over it. I have to start acting like the older guy she fell in love with. The mature Dan who took the bull by the horns. Not this weak and feable man. This is what I just sent her. My 2nd email to her, which is what should have been sent first: "There is No Need to tell me that you are not too upset with me. I don't need to hear it. You have every right to be if you are. Showing up today unannouced was not right on my part. You are hurting and in a lot of pain now (I saw it in your eyes). I should have known better. I am not acting my age and doing what I did today did not respect your personal boundaries and space."

Tijuana, you're so right man. Her tears today were real and the look in her eyes was nothing but love, but I saw A LOT of hurt and grief in them. It's as if she was LOCKED inside herself and is TRAPPED in there. Last night over MSN it DID appear that I was bringing her out of her shell, but I'm aiming for too much too soon. I start my sessions this week and can't speed up that process either.... Something else your said Tijuana: "If she loves you, she is going to use the time apart to evaluate you as a partner and as a person. You cannot influence her decision. I started NC because I didnt want to force a decision out of my ex." I don't have to force her to love me, because that's already there, but her fear of getting hurt by me is GREATER than her love, or at least they coexist, as they did before, but the only difference now is that she is no longer able to overlook it, because the truth is, I also gave her the confidence to stand up to me and to anyone who didn't treat her with the respect she deserves... You also wrote: "In the state of mind she is right now, you cant expect her to want to be near you. Her feelings need to be stable so her logic can kick in and start the decision process. Show her you have changed by respecting her space." She clearly can't be near me (See my face makes her cry, talking to me makes her do the same thing). MSN was safe last night and I should have left things at that for a while. You see, she already has made up her decision, based on her fear of getting hurt again by me and according to what she told me last night, her head and her heart are in conflict and what I'm trying to do is surround her with positive moments to help ease her confusion, but as soon as I do something good, I follow it up with something else (too much) and so I try and undo it and end up making things worse.... What it comes down to is SPACE, which is what she DOES need and it is something I have NOT given her since last Wednesday afternoon (day of the break-up). I just wanted to take away her pain, because it was that pain being too large that forced her to go away from me, when she didn't want to. Will she start to see me differently the more space I give her, or will she be able to forget me easilier, or is that not possible?

I am not saying farewell. That was not my intention behind the email. That's for sure.

Hey Tijuana, You know, last night's MSN conversation was nice and it ended up making us both feel really good. Good enough for her to be VERY open with me and keep me on her MSN. Thing is, it was that good feeling that enticed me to go and visit her today. I should have let last night's conversation resonate within her and not have shown up today. Your right about me being too present. I'm scared that if I'm not, the bond we had (have) is going to disappear. You see, she didn't leave me because she didn't love me. She left me because I wasn't always the nice guy I promised to be and I'm taking corrective measures right now to correct that. She knows that. I believe that last night was her testing me to see how strong I was and if I would try and change her mind or persuade her in any way. We got off (I ended it) feeling good and today I acted weak by going to seeing her, disrespecting her wishes and then following it up with an apology call (something she didn't want to do....talk on the phone, so I left a message) and then finally leaving her an apology email. I'm getting neurotic here and she knows it too. I have to CALM down. I feel like I don't do something right away that she'll be gone forever, but it's my current actions that will sealing my fate more than my actual fear.....

DAMN, I sent an apology email to her just now!!! I just wanted to clear the air as to my intentions, so she knows... This is what I wrote: "I was next door for a reason (I didn't know of any other stores that sold flowers on the way). I came in to see how you are doing after what you've been going through and then be on my way. That's it, that's all. No further intentions, or motives. Innocent as can be. I ended up hurting and upseting you and that's the very last thing I wanted to do. Please know that. I was also in the Mall yesterday, but did not come and see you, even knowing you were there. I didn't know you seeing me would have had the effect it did on you. I did not end up buying any flowers. I could not (cannot) face my family tonight (yes, even though it's my mom's b-day). Lori called me and Aiya got on the phone and said she loved me and missed me and even asked about you and well, needless to say, I couldn't even talk to my own niece. I am home and thinking of how much I hurt you again, when all I wanted to do was put a smile on your face today, or at least make you feel a little more at ease with me and to let you know that you're not alone. I'm sorry for ruining an already difficult day for you. I just wanted to make it better and that's the truth. Maybe you can let me know that you're not too upset with me (by email/msn). I really didn't mean any harm this time around. I was being friendly and well, I was just being the Dan I've always been (the caring guy), cause he's (I'm) still here..."

How do I make this better??? If I would have left things at the great conversation her and I had last night over MSN and NOT have gone in to see her today, than I would not be where I am right now. I would not have made her cry again and for all I know right now, she will block me on her MSN tonight or tomorrow, so that this sort of thing doesn't happen again..... One thing I DO know is that with exception to having called her immediately after having left her store, apologizing to her machine, is that I should probably NOT email her tonight, or for a bit to further apologize for having gone to see her today and in actuality, having gone against her wishes. Am I right on this? I REALLY hope she doesn't come home and choose to delete and block me from her MSN. That was always a way to keep in touch, even down the line (until things cooled over).. Do you guys think she's going to do or say something in regards to her having asked me to leave today? Do you think she feels bad at all for having had to do that to me?

Why is it that she can't support me when I am going for this help. If she loves the Dan that is sweet and caring and that part is working at getting rid of the ugly side that comes out, then why would she close off ALL doors and options to a reconciliation, or even be slightly open to the idea of it happening in the future. NO, I am not good for her when I was critical and harsh with her and raised my voice, but if that part is no longer there, all that's left is the man she loves, so WHY is she running away from him, because HE (I) still love her SO MUCH and I KNOW that she loves me!!!!

It didn't go as planned. This is horrible. I went to her work, as planned, which is in a mall. She works in a retail store. She was behind the cash and it was really busy. As soon as she saw me walk in, I knew it was a mistake. She seemed surprised, but I can tell it was too much for her to handle. I waited patiently (not really) while the line-up died down and then I approached her. She stared into my eyes and said in a voice that was about to cry "please leave". NOt in a mean way, or in a cold or harsh or demanding way, but in a pleading way, as in can't you see this is killing me type thing? I tried to explain that I had to buy flowers for my mom next door and wanted to pass by, because I was concerned about her and wanted to give her a hug. She acknowledged that and then said she can't and asked me again in a pleading voice and her starting to cry at this point, asking me to please leave. Right then her boss asked me to leave and told her to go to the back of the store to regroup herself because she was crying at this point. This TORE me apart inside. I left the store and left her a message on her cell letting her know that my intentions were not to upset or hurt her today... I feel so HELPLESS to do nothing right NOW!!!!!!!! What once would have been perceived as sweet and welcomed with open arms reduces her to tears and makes her have to run away Did this ruin last nights MSN conversation? Now that I did this and potentially made things MUCH worse, she may go off and block and delete me now. If I would have left it alone for a little while and given her time to breathe.....

Hi Ellie. She loves me. I hurt her. She knows that. I know that. I am helping myself right now (outside of her and I). She still needs the warmth and doesn't deep down WANT to walk away. She feels she "HAS" to, unless presented with more reassurance and love, which is why fell for me in the first place. The love isn't gone. The trust is damaged, but I'm working on repairing it as we speak and it's making her decision harder, because she sees a sweet man now (the man she loves).

I'm going to have to go to the mall she works at now to pick up a cake for my mom's surprise b-day for tonight, that WE were supposed to go to. I am worried about her. Especially after what I found out last night, as to have baddly she's doing. She sounds like she needs a hug and maybe that is what I should go by there to do and then leave (asking nothing of her)... She needs to remember my warmth and I KNOW she won't shun it if it's there and I have open arms. She WANTS to be in them and after last night, I know that more than ever.

Actually, this is the first time she had ever been tipsy or drunk at all with me. Alcohol never guided her to express her feelings for me. Last night's MSN conversation was filled with her pain and hurt and clearly she loves me. she loves the good guy who took care of her and can't see past the other part. She said her head and heart won't let her. She kept saying like she feels so weak and that she gave up on us. I kept giving her support, telling her not to blame herself, while giving her encouragement of how special a person she is and how strong and courageous she is. I could see that she wanted to just give in to her feelings. I can see that I was making it easier for her to want to do that. I was being everything she needed: A Sensitive, supportive, attentive, non-judgemental and calm guy, who was trying to make her feel loved and I know it got through, because I know her, but she still has that block. Of course I'm not expecting that block to go away. I could only do things from a distance now and slowly try and earn her trust to repeated non-threatening communication, without it looking like I'm there all the time, because as soon as she feels that she is relying on it, she'll pull back in fear of falling back with me into a relationship. She is NOT mad at me. she does NOT hate me. She had nothing but love, but her hurt seems to cloud that other feeling. My heart is going out to her because I love her. I know she needs a shoulder to cry on. I would love her to see me as a NEW guy and not one who is still capable of doing what he did. I know she is wroking today and I have to pick up a cake to go to my mothers surprise b-day today and she works next door. I know she would not turn me away and I just want to hug her, but not it be a goodbye hug. The thing is, I KNOW that I can work on it. I'm still here. She is still there too, but her HURT is STRONG, just as my actions when in the relationship were as well. She helped me to realize that I no longer have to rely on that anymore. What can I do to help her realize that she no longer has to let her hurt and fear rule her and that it's safe?

I just spent the last hour and 20 minutes chatting with her online. I saw her pop online at 3:10am and her name said "Can't Sleep" and so I emailed her right then and there and said if she is up for company and wants to chat, I can't sleep either. She replied saying she had been drinking and crying and that she didn't think that talking with me would be a good idea at all, but thanked me for the thought. I replied saying you might be surprised and she popped online. We started talking right way. She is still IN LOVE with me. She was crying. She did NOT want to take it to the phone, but wanted to continue to chat. She was sweet. She is HURTING. She is numb. I was agreeable and sympathetic the WHOLE way through. I asked her if she got my email. She said she did and wasn't sure if she was going to reply to it or not. She then went on to say that she didn't know if there was anything else to say and if a string of emails would be a good idea, but after that, she chatted with me for an HOUR. There were smiles. There were hugs. She said 2 times that she can't be with me even after I'm better. She doesn't understand why I couldn't have been good to her all the time and now she'll never have anyone, but I gave her a lot of encouragement and she listened. I spoke a lot about us and even got pretty bold with certain stuff and she listened (or read and waited patiently for more). By the end of the conversation she was OPEN with me and I asked her if she feels better and she said a bit and I said good and she thanked me. I gave her a rose icon. She said I still have the one you gave me! Then she said babe, you should go to bed. I told her she can call me anytime. She thanked me. We said goodnight. Thoughts????

Dako, she doesn't see me as a friend. She is hurting because she wants (wanted) more than just that with me, because of the good things I gave her, that no one else ever did. She knows that's irreplacable. How do I found out if Dad is a chaperone or not? Cause if he's not, he may not need to be there and she may not object. Is there anyway I could broach that topic without it being perceived as me putting pressure on her?

Also Dako, you said seeing a "new me" would change her mind. It's the "real me" that she loves, but not that other side that comes out at times. If she sees that it doesn't, even though right now it appears that she is more than unsure whether or not she even wants to, or is able to stick around and find out if it won't, even from a distance, because of her hurt and fear. If there is a way I can show her this, even in the limited and somewhat reduced to formal emails we'll have going.

Thank you Dako. Do you have any advice for our actual physical meeting for next week to exchange our stuff? She doesn't drive and is arranging for her father to drive her to pick up and drop off the stuff. I'm assuming because she thinks that what she has here will be too much to carry on the bus. In actuality, I was able to put it all into one big bag for her. Can I tell her that there is no need for her Dad to come, seeing it's all in one big bag. I would much prefer her didn't. This way, we can have a chance to sit down and talk for a few in a mature and hopefully loving and amicable fashion. Is there a way I can suggest that he doesn't come, or doesn't need to come?

What does that tell you Lily? It tells me that she does love me and knows that I didn't mean what I did, but can't see past that. If I maintain a very sweet, light, positive and encouraging correspondence with her, this won't hurt her anymore and it could demonstrate to her that I DO respect her and do not need, nor do I want to resort to what I used to feel I needed to rely on. Besides, she's coming over next week to exchange our respective belongings, so there will be actual "physical" contact then. I love her.

Thank you. Both her and I came from abusive parents. Her MOM treated her horribly, as does he grandmother and one of her sisters (to this very day). I encouraged her to distance herself from them, as I did from my own FATHER and at times mother, who do the same thing with me, meanwhile, was hard on her for the littlest things. I wanted to make her tougher, but she was beautiful just the way she was/is. I'm not sure if I agree on her only talking in the past tense. She says she "still" loves me. She recognizes her own self-worth and also recognizes that I told her to put herself #1. She fears what she knows. She also loves the part of me that isn't like that and that part of me is a very sweet guy and she knows that. She can't and now doesn't want to see past the bad. It is still fresh, but she is still willing to keep in minimum contact via email. I am working on my issues in the meantime. I don't want to lose her for good though. There is still love there behind her fear and hurt.

This was my reply to her, after having waited 24 hours to do so: "I know this has been extremely hard for you. I can only imagine what you must be feeling inside of you. If you'd like to talk about it (on here I mean), you can share. I'll listen. It's up to you." Taking the step to get the proper help is more important to me than school at this point. If I'm going to allow myself to fully let in..., I have to rid myself of this one last thing that held me back from doing so, because when it's gone, things are....well, we both know that things are great when THAT part doesn't come out. That's undeniable. They tell me at the anger management centre on CDN street that they CAN and WILL help me and I intend to do the rest. You've taught (and still are) me more than you believed you had in you to teach. You're a really strong girl (woman). I hope you know that, because you ARE. It's too bad not too many people saw that in you in your life, because it's always been there. I've always known that. I'm proud of you. We'll for sure arrange something for the stuff you need back and vice versa. Even though it may be a little tough to do this weekend, try and keep smiling, okay? Good. --------- I sent this to her tonight. She didn't reply yet. I think it was a nice reply, with no pressure. She may be keeping me waiting for a reply, because I waited 24 hours myself, or she just needs to think about what I wrote I guess?

I've told her all of this and more. She knows I'm sorry. She knows I loved her. Here are some of the things she said in her so far "only" email to me post-breakup: "This has been extremely hard for me as well." "I also did not want to speak to you. I'm reaching out now because I know you need it and I will not deprive you of it." "I'm glad you're going to get help, it's something that you can only benefit from. I'm proud of you for taking that step - I know it must have been hard." "I'm sorry if it seems as though I've erased you from my life. That isn't the case - I do cherish what we had and I do still care for you - I simply can't be with you. And I mean that. We're both hurting now in different ways and I hope that with time it will pass." "I'm sorry I can't speak with you on the phone. That's a decision I made for myself and I'm sticking with it. If you want to correspond through email for a bit I can do that but I don't want it to be something we rely on. I ended things for a reason and although I know it's something you're actively working on now I still will not be able to get back into a relationship with you. There's too much hurt and fear there and it's not something I can continue to look past." "I don't know what else to say right now.. I don't know if there's anything else that CAN be said. I loved you dan, and I still do - my feelings for you were never the question. I just need to put myself first for once (you taught me that!) and I need to protect myself and my feelings and in the long run that means we cannot be together." "Know that I don't hate you nor am I trying to erase you from my life. I just can't talk to you on the phone. I would however like to get the stuff I left at your place and return your things as well at some point so maybe at the beginning of the week. I'll email you about that." "Thank you for the well wishes with my doctors appointment tomorrow as well as for the offer of the template for my letter. I already wrote one and gave it in but thank you anyway."

Ladies, I know that my actions were wrong. I NEVER blamed her ONCE, even during the relationship for what I was doing. NOT ONCE. Nor am I doing it now. As scared of she was of saying or doing the wrong thing, towards the end, I was also scared that if I say something that would be perceived as starting an argument, or finding fault, would result in her dangling the relationship in my face, which is VERY understandable, but I was living in fear as well. I knew I was slipping and I hated myself. Still do. Now more than ever. Keeping in correspondance with her via email, what should the communications consist of? I know she loves me (she said so in her email), but I also know her fear is stronger than her willingness to put herself out there again, YET, she seems to NOT have the FULL willingness to let go of me completely, because she knows that I DO love her and HATE myself to, seeing I've done to her, what I promised to take her away from. Please advise me how and what and how often should these emails consist of. I will NOT push for more, but right now, we are addressing each other by NAME (no longer term of endearment) and she signs off with her NAME, with no love, as do I, which is normal. I'm just not sure what to do with them?

Oh it most definitely had NOTHING to AT ALL to do with her. I have to rephrase that quote. She didn't bring it out. What she portrayed was a victim, because she had been one her whole life. It scared me and made me nervous believe it or not. I HATED hurting her and would cry right there along with her. She NEVER complained and she should have, but again, this was NOT her fault and I have taken 100% of the fault on this. I DO love her. I am seeking therapy now, as well as anger management (something I NEVER had before this relationship. I NEVER had a temper). So, you are saying that I go at her pace in the emails? Which of course I will do. I DO miss her and I don't think she wants to be my friend, because she told me that she sees me as being more than just that and it's hard on her, because she loves me, but she can't see past the hurt and the fear. I love her and hate myself for this.

Hi Everyone, Just when I gave up on the idea of being in a relationship, I met this amazing woman who was SO open minded, easy going, affectionate, sensitive, non-judgemental, good looking, intelligent and totally in to me. We hit it off and began dating. We got closer and closer and both our defenses came down and it grew from there. She did more and more for me as time went by. I couldn't have asked for more, BUT, I DID. The nicer she was, the more I demanded of her. She NEVER argued. She rarely if ever disagreed with me. She was just so happy to be with me. She thought I was the sweetest guy she ever met. She had previously been misued by guys and had an insulting mother, grandmother and sister. She had a low self opinion of herself and guess what? While I encouraged her to stand up to them and start believing in herself, I also on the other hand got more and more stern with her and would lose my cool with her. She would cry and act like a wounded dove and she never deserved that. I loved her dearly, but she brought out an aggresive side of me I didn't know existed. I had never been like that with another woman. I became critical over little things and it just got worse and worse. She would try harder and harder to please me, but I would find fault, while at the same time I would be a SWEETHEART. I guess you can say that I was HOT and COLD and she didn't know who or what to expect. I realized that I had to seek an anger management course, because even though the outbursts were less often, they got worse. I NEVER touched her, but I would yell and she would NEVER fight back and I HATED myself. Whenever things were going well, I would start something and it culminated on New Years Day. She was ready to leave, saying she can't do this anymore. She loves me, but she can't keep hurting and being scared like this. I vowed to stop and I did, but just this past Wednesday, she perceived a small argument as something that reminded her of what she feared and she said she can't anymore, while balling. It seemed like it was the most difficult thing for her to say and do. I LOVE this woman beyond belief and I let out my frustrations out on her. She wrote me an email Thursday night telling me that this is extremely hard and she loves me and that is NOT the issue and never was. She said that she can't live in fear and keep hurting. She said that I taught her to stand up for herself and I did. She said that she is happy that I am going for help now, but she can't be with me if she is scared. She said she can only have communication by email and that she can't talk to me on the phone (too hard for her I guess). She is trying to be tough and take care of herself and I am proud of her for doing so, because I love her, but I am starting my help now, to learn how to control my emotions and outbursts. What can I do with our email communications? What can I do to demonstrate to her that I love her dearly and would still love her in my life. We were going to move in together officially in June. I KNOW she still loves me and is hurting. How do I make her more comfortable with me and allow her to feel more at ease to start trusting me again and want to take it beyond email, when in fact we were so close? I replied to her email 24 hours later and she didn't reply to my reply just yet. I know she's scared. She wants to come over next week to exchange our belongings and I want to know what I can do so that she's not gone forever. Thank you, D