"Gay Culture?"

I'm gay, which already makes it hard for me to date sometimes...but I'm afraid that I simply don't fit in with the gay crowd. My close friend who is also gay calls it our "culture," but I pray he's wrong.

I don't have a flat stomach, and although I'm doing something about it I wonder if I ever will have a flat stomach. I'm not what would be considered fat, but I could stand to lose a few pounds. Guys find me attractive, but it seems like when they find out I'm not built like a model they lose interest. It seems like even the men who aren't ripped want a guy who is.

My next problem is that I'm kind of old-fashioned. I won't kiss on the first date unless I think it's gone really well, and you can be sure I NEVER fool around outside a relationship. In fact, I'm still a virgin. Guys seem to get the wrong idea with me, the last date I went on he tried to feel me up during the previews. I can't seem to get it through a guy's head that I won't please him that way until he's my boyfriend.

I'm not sure if this is confined to where I live, or if I'm simply in the wrong place. All guys want from me is something sexual, or they won't have anything to do with me because I don't look like a model. This is what my friend calls "Gay Culture." He tells me that if I don't get used to it, I'll just be miserable.

If this is true, I'm doomed to be single forever. I won't change my beliefs to please someone, and if I never look like a model...well, that's not entirely in my control.

So what's the deal? Are all gay guys like this, or am I just in a bad place to be gay?

Thanks, and sorry for writing a novel...

Hi ashes,

No, not all gay guys are like that. You'll meet a lot of people on here actually that are gay and more relationship oriented. I would consider myself and my boyfriend in that category. Your friend is wrong.

Your friend is partly right when he says that gay culture does tend to glorify that kind of thing. There is something about gay culture that tends to sell quick sex and very short-term relationships.

You might want to try looking elsewhere for dates. Rather than the bar, try attending a gay-activism group like PFLAG or a GBLT organization at your local college. This can be a good place to start looking for more intelligent people who don't necessarily just want to have sex right away.

I also had good luck internet dating- I met my boyfriend on Yahoo personals, and I had a few decent dates on there as well. You might try looking at online personals and see if there's anything in there that looks promising.

Piano guy is right. Not all gay guys are like that at all. I myself view sex as something intimate and very personal, and would only share it with my boyfriend as well. (And certainly NEVER outside a relationship.)

Make your aims and beliefs clear: make sure they know you want a monogomous long-term relationship. Bars are DEFINITELY not the place to look for Mr. Right. I personally don't believe in a gay culture, but that is my own opinion. While It is good to celebrate and be proud, and stay strong in the gay community, the idea of a world all to ourself contributes to why some straight people don't like us.

Internet dating services can be useful, but be careful!!!! There are ALOT of "dating services" online for gays that end up just being used for hookups and finding sex. Make sure your profile is clear. Good luck

Hi Lilstud, or anyone else who has good ideas,

What recommendations do you have for good places to meet guys besides gay bars?

Thanks so much for your comments, guys.

It really makes me feel better knowing my friend isn't completely correct.

I have a couple dating sites online, but I think they're full of men who are too in love with themselves to possibly love anyone else. : P

Anyway, you two were very helpful.

Thanks a million!

Hi from_the_ashes,

I hope what piano guys says is true. In fact, i would be more inclined to take what he says is true, rather than my interpretations.

This is so much like my post "Stereotypes: and the gay ghetto". No, i hadn't read your post before i created it, it was inspired by the girl who posted about flirting. Poignant.

My thoughts on the gay culture are the same. I detest it and i detest the cheapness that comes with it. I don't like the way people get 'out of it' (drunk, drugs etc.) just to relate to each other and i don't like the way some / many people try to fit into stereotypes just to fit in.

You know, i've often heard people say to me, "oh, that's just our culture" too when i've raised the issues you have raised and somehow, i just can't accept it.

Last night, there was a big doo just near where i live, and i chose not to go. Sure, i felt lonely, but, it is now Saturday and i feel great. I have a clear head and know that i have not compromised myself. Really, the only reason i would have gone was to beat loneliness, and that is no reason to attend a function. I looked deep within myself last night and realised that i must find a life outside of all that 'culture'... right now, i couldn't think of anything more enticing: the endless possibilities...

Let those who want to submit to 'gay culture' without even questioning it, do so. Soon, they will awaken to see that they have made a choice not based on choice, but on brainwashing.

I'll let you in on a little secret, i work amongst the gay community at the moment and i see a lot of the types of people (the muscle marys) you mention. The funny thing is, they always comment on the one they cannot have. I have seen many 'cute' guys that do not subscribe to the stereotype you have mentioned, but rather, are content with themselves. Most of the Muscle Mary guys end up still trawling the dancefloor at age 45, still looking for somebody to admire them. It is actually quite sad. All that time at the gym could have been invested looking for a significant other to give them all the love and respect they deserve.

Btw, i don't believe in kissing on the first date either. What ever happened to old-fashioned romance? Why should you, or I, or somebody else for that matter, settle for anything less, just because we're gay?

I go through this whole macho machismo thing with the women too. They have all got such attitude that it turns me off.

I know, know i am a good person and worthy of a lot more than what these people carry on with.

Somewhere, out there, there are some rational, well-adjusted human beings worthy of our affection.

Make your aims and beliefs clear: make sure they know you want a monogomous long-term relationship.

The Stud is right, it is about finding your values and making your beliefs clear. Sometimes this takes a bit of soul searching, but it looks like you're well on your way!

No, all gay men definitely are NOT like that. And trust me you don't have to have killer abs to impress most guys (personally, I really don't like abs. They just look like a stoney path way), because everyone likes something different. And you WILL be someone's type. I think people who get caught up in "gay culture(i.e. sleeping around; doing tons of drugs; and working out at the gym incessantly)" don't believe there is anymore to gay life and love than that...Which is unfortunate.

But there are plenty of gay things to get into on campus, with people who are intelligent and emotionally available for relationships...People who can look outside of abs.

Also, as a side note, use what you have. I have a flat stomach, but no abs. But it's all good. When I wear a form fitting T-shirt and some jeans I turn heads...If I do say so myself Just appreciate and love your own body. Nothing wrong with wanting to stay in shape and look good. But it doesn't have to be an obsession.

I think people who get caught up in "gay culture(i.e. sleeping around; doing tons of drugs; and working out at the gym incessantly)" don't believe there is anymore to gay life and love than that...Which is unfortunate.

Couldn't have said it better myself, it is unfortunate.

I looked deep within myself last night and realised that i must find a life outside of all that 'culture'... right now, i couldn't think of anything more enticing: the endless possibilities...

 

Let those who want to submit to 'gay culture' without even questioning it, do so. Soon, they will awaken to see that they have made a choice not based on choice, but on brainwashing.

Powerful words... I couldn't agree more.

I ask this though- where does a gay guy go to meet gay people besides the bar? I have never been to a bar, but I feel completely isolated and alone... I have no gay friends, and am sick to death of crushing on straight guys.

I agree that there has to be something more out there, but I simply don't have a clue where to look!

I think that is a very hard thing PianoGuy. I personally don't have any tips. I was lucky enough to land my partner by complete accident. I think the online services could be VERY useful as long as you make your expectations realistic and clear (most gay online sites are just hookup hotspots). Bars are always a bad choice though when looking for prospective boyfriends.

I think I've said this before in one way or another, I would say stop looking, and try to be more social whether it be straight or gay. Join a Tai chi class, whatever, its called networking. Sooner or later you'll meet someone through someone.

Powerful words... I couldn't agree more.

 

I ask this though- where does a gay guy go to meet gay people besides the bar? I have never been to a bar, but I feel completely isolated and alone... I have no gay friends, and am sick to death of crushing on straight guys.

 

I agree that there has to be something more out there, but I simply don't have a clue where to look!

I think the post above is a good idea, but meeting other seemingly normal gay people is tough and it can be really lonely if you feel you do not fit anywhere. It would be great if there was a world wide forum, like this site, where disaffected gay people from all over could meet.

I guess i want iterate what somebody else here said and that is if you're going to advertise on a website, be honest and clear about who you are. But, the most important thing is to not have any expectations. Just do it and see where it leads. Pass it off as 'you'd like to meet some people to just hang out with and see movies with' or something. That way you are putting the idiots off wanting to hook up for sex. It's pretty hard to do in a cinema (although not impossible i am sure ).

If you're feeling particularly isolated, it may be a good idea to relocate to another area that is more gay friendly. You will still have the problem that the only place to socialise is a bar, but at least you will feel a part of things and not feel so isolated. Or, join a club at University (this is a common suggestion on these boards).

Another thing is, keep posting in this forum for support, it is really important to feel a part of a community.

I've done the internet thing with good results, but I'm reluctant to try again. It wasn't very much fun- I really want a place to meet real people.. you know, like not on the computer.

One reason I moved from Michigan to Boston is to be in a more gay-friendly area. You're right, I do feel much less alone, I feel like my sexuality is much less of an issue, but I still feel like the bar is my main option.

I like the suggestion of looking at groups at colleges. My college doesn't have any such groups but I will certainly look at some nearby. I think that sounds like a good idea.

One of my gay professors suggested buying a gay travel guide and looking for places like coffee shops and bookstores and such (to find the more intellectual types) , but my experience has been that people are usually somewhat reticent in those places- you don't normally go to a coffeeshop to meet people, you go to read or to be alone.

So, I'm still brainstorming. I also like Luke's suggestion that I just need more friends in general, although I had a very large circle of friends back in Michigan and it didn't really help me to find people to date. I certainly don't regret having lots of friends- friends are beautiful whether straight or gay, but you can't date straight guys and girls.

Anyways, I don't mean to hijack the thread, my apologies to the OP.

I'm beginning to think that the only way to meet people is through the internet thing and then you can discern along the way. At least you had good results. I know what you mean about interacting in real life though, it's so much more rewarding and fulfilling.

I haven't done the internet thing yet. I don't know why, i just can't bring myself to do it. I also feel as though my social and romantic life has been hijacked by a whole lot of website and bar owners (who capitalise on these things) when it should be so easy: i should be able to meet people in normal locations, just like anybody else.

Example profile

Description. Hi, i'm xxxx (insert cheesy grin here). I am an active, outgoing person who is easy to get along with. I never have bad mornings and i am always happy (insert second cheesy grin here).

Likes: Everything. There is nothing i don't like. I am so nice, i couldn't possible dislike anything.

Dislikes: Nothing, i am a happy, outgoing person.

Height: 5'10"

Age: 38

Pets: Yes please

Children: No

So, there you go. That about sums it up. Except i left out the fact that i like to spend time alone to reflect and that i sometimes have bouts of melancholy

Your profile is hilarious. Maybe a bit unbelievable though- no bad mornings??

As much as I complain, the truth is that I did end up meeting my boyfriend of two years on the internet and we had a good run. I'd recommend looking around some and seeing if there's anything that strikes your fancy. I used yahoo personals and liked it alot, but that was some time ago.

If you ever want help/motivation for online dating feel free to hit me up for advice.

Your profile is hilarious. Maybe a bit unbelievable though- no bad mornings??

Heh, yeah, that was a bit of sarcasm on my profile. I am not so much grumpy, just incoherent.

...

If you ever want help/motivation for online dating feel free to hit me up for advice.

Okay, coolies. I'm still thinking about it, i just don't think i can compete with all those 'happy' people

Groups of people who belong to the group will always act similar, its human, just think of clicks. Well the gay community is a minority group, but its so large that its stupid to think that many people will all agree and share the same culture. Any way the way it seems is that a lot of the gay culture I see are kids simply buying into trends seen on T.V. and pop culture, usually when you find yourself disagreeing or not belonging to the big group or fitting in the culture, you are someone who thinks for yourself and uses the brain inside your head.

You guys are truly awesome!

I'll definitely give it a try.

Thanks so much for all of the support, and I will definitely keep posting here in the forums.