Commitment

[Gentry_2000]

I was with my girlfriend for six years, five of which we lived together. We have moved to three different cities and over half the US together. She recently broke things off after a prolonged state of limbo in which she was deciding if she wanted to give me/us one try at making things right. I was hoping for it, but in the end she decided against it. We still have our things under the same roof, but have not lived under it together for a good while (except the occasional two-three days here and there when she starts missing us and comes back...in body, but not in heart...before leaving again).

 

Anyhow, my question --- of which I still have many. Marriage was rarely brought up between us. We both knew we wanted to get married in general, and on a few occasions we discussed our future specifically. It never went beyond that. She never pushed the issue and I was never strong enough, or in a position to move forward because I was happy with how things were. She, too, seemed to not be pressing and merely enjoying what we had created. After graduating from grad school, I was hoping to move forward in that regard as soon as my work situation was stable. Unfortunately, the job search lasted close to two years (I still had contract work that allowed me to pay my own way, but I was embarrassed that I wouldn't be able to get a ring, or throw a marriage the likes of which she deserved --- yes, I know my own hang-up, insecurity). On one of the contract jobs, I had two co-workers who talked incessantly about marriage. I came home one day and passed along this info to my girlfriend and asked if she did the same. Her response was that she and her friends occasional talked about it, but she didn't pursue the conversation further.

 

Fast forward to the break-up. Since she has been gone, I have become increasing more open to the idea of marrying her. I guess, that's a misstatement...I was always open to the idea, but now I was sure that it's what I wanted...now. I now tell her that I want her hand in marriage, that I want her to be the mother of my kids, and that I can't envision a life without her. Her response is that she wanted the same thing for years and nothing else, but not anymore...it's now too late. She doesn't see a future with me. I have dealt with personal issues on why I could not sort out these feeling before. I have my ideas, but I was curious if anybody else have experienced this? Why am I so sure now, but could not pull the trigger before? Is there a chance that she will consider my words after the anger and resentment subside? Thanks.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

It is the old "you don't know what you have until it is gone". People get complacent, take their partners for granted and just continue to carry on without moving forward. I see it all the time on these boards. You are not alone. It is quite possible that she did indeed give you indications that she wanted to get married but you were comfortable with the relationship as it was or your mind was focussed on other issues in your life that you didn't really pay attention. Most women, when they want to get married to their long time boyfriend, will certainly make their wishes clear. I don't know what to tell you. She may reconsider or she may not. Nobody knows. You have made your intentions clear now and there is nothing more you can do except carry on with your life. If I were you, I wouldn't jump back into the dating scene so quickly. Give it a few months to see if she will come around. If not, you will have learned an important lesson to take with you in your next relationship.

[Goldfish6888]

Hi Jent

 

I think that Crazyaboutdogs is right. We often "take our partners for granted" until they leave us - We are no longer scared of "commitment" whenl the very thing that would have "tied us" down suddenly runs away. I know the same thing happened to my best friends - they did indeed split up, but he, as you did, came around to the idea of marriage and commitment after some time apart and realising his true feelings. He did manage to convince her to come back to him with a card and a letter and an all night conversation, where he was truly honest with her.

 

So you have to ask yourself...Do you really want to let this girl go? Do you want to think back to 2007 as that year when you let her get away.

 

Maybe her resentment or his distancing herself was happening a long time before the actual break-up. It could have taken her years. Sometimes women are afraid of making their statements about commitment and marriage clear as we are told, "don't pressure a man, ..you can't make someone do what they don't want to do as this will just makes them run in the other direction!"

So she may need a "lot more convincing" than words. Why don't you send her a letter expressing all your feelings. You don't want to have regrets on this? After all 5 years is a long time in your life. It might take some time of you "breaking" down her doors again to let you in. If you really are sure of your feelings, I think it's worth a shot.

 

It's hard to find someone "special" so it's worth fighting for, when you do.

[Gentry_2000]

Thanks both crazyaboutdogs and goldfish for your advice. I truly have been able to express my feelings to her alot lately. More than anything it makes her sad that I am now saying what I am. It also has led to frustration on her part and a desire to avoid further conversations. She has said that I am now acting as the man she always wanted me to be, showing the affection, willing to commit, being supportive, etc., but that it was too late.

 

There is also now the added distraction of a "friend." She ran into him at a 10 year high school reunion and had been talking to him without my knowledge for a bit. He lives in a different city and they have seen each other only three times, but they have definitely built an emotional bond and she is "interested" in pursuing this "opportunity" further. I know this other person is not the reason we got to where we are, but it is clouding the picture currently.

 

I really think I have tried everything, and I have owned up to my mistakes. I just want her to give it a chance and I fear that once we leave our current living situation (we own a house jointly, but soon one or the other of us will be leaving) it will be too hard for her to go back.

 

This process of seeing if she'd try had lingered for eight weeks and she has been staying on a friends couch during that time (she said she definitely done with "us" last week - so no more limbo). With the intrusion on her friend, the conversations with friends and family, and the difficulty of the last few months I am scared she may not return just on the off chance that her friends would sour on her and the off chance we'd have to revisit this same situation again.

 

She actually said one time recently that she could see us getting married, having kids, and then finding ourselves in the same situation four years from now. She also made the curious statement that she doesn't "want to love" me anymore!?! I don't know what I can do to turn around this negativity, anger, resentment, and fear of hers other than by standing on the sideline. But, how long should I wait? She says she thinks my heart is in the right place now, so how much more can I do to show her that she is what I want for now and forever? I don't think its best to stop communications entirely, but the relationship discussions are going nowhere. And, is it a lost effort now that her emotions are elsewhere and she is suppressing the feelings left for me/us?

[Goldfish6888]

Hi Jent

 

Sorry to hear but it does appear she has made her decision at this stage.

I think you have no other choice but to give her "space" to live with that decision and its consequences. In other words, you will have to stay away from her and cut communication as much as possible. In other words, if you can, adopt NC. Before doing so, I would tell her you are always here for her and if she needs anything to call you and tell her you love her. Then close the door, there really is nothing else you can do. She will come back to you, if she really wants to. You have laid your cards out on the table for her to see and she now decides if she wants to play. But she needs "space" to process things in her mind and emotions.

 

In terms of how long do you wait? I really don't know, only you will know the answer to this question. This is hard. Sorry if I'm being direct here. But you can't force someone to love you again or to feel that love for you again. I guess her statement of not wanting to love you anymore was that she has associated "loving" you with things like hurt/pain/worry/anxiety/confusion. She even sounds a little numb.

Give it time and space and wait to see if she does "come around" and maybe even miss you.

 

From a female perspective, can I ask you something else personal, did you propose to her at all?- Actually, like getting down on one knee with a ring? I know you told her you wanted kids, marriage etc., with her, but a friend told me...actions speak louder than words....(where men are concerned). This could be the reason behind her statement that you guys will be back in the same position in 4 years time. It's just a suggestion, that popped into my mind as I was concluding this post and one that should not be taken lightly, but....nonetheless..it is something for you to think about!

 

G Fish

[Gentry_2000]

goldfish,

 

I really appreciate your angle on the "not wanting to love" me comment. I think the patience, honesty, and dedication I am showing now is fueling her negative emotions even more. Also, as you suggested, she has even written to me lately that she is feeling numb. Hopefully down the road, the shots I am taking for "us" now on a daily basis will be appreciated. The situation never leaves my mind, it's exhausting --- the hardest, most painful, time I've experienced. As she had done for us on a number of occasions in the past years though, I am now trying to be strong for us. There were times I was distracted with grad school, job search, etc. where I didn't give it 100%, but her love maintained us, and brought me back. Hopefully, the same will occur once again --- although this is the first time either of us has truly walked away. I have never in six years seen this side of her. There were never lies, questions of trust, or character. I just wish she'd give something back...in between the constant rejection she did say that she honestly thought we may have a chance down the road, but I don't know how much credence to put in that after seeing/hearing everything else. I don't want her to keep pushing and go too far so that I'd be full of resentment if she were to return.

 

Insofar as my inclination to marry, I did not propose to her. I did ask her if I were to hypothetically propose what would she say? A five-six weeks ago, so said she doesn't know what she would have answered. As recently as three weeks ago, after posing the question again, she revised that answer with a resounding "No." A few days back, in the midst of one of our last relationship conversations she said that feels that there IS somebody better out there for her. She later backtracked just a bit to say she thinks there LIKELY MAY be somebody better. I don't know if this "friend" that I mentioned above is the candidate she is referrring to.

 

Regarding actually getting on knee and proposing, I did not do that. In my heart I would, but I didn't want to do so now (or in the past eight weeks when we were in limbo) out of desperation. I wanted the moment to be special for her and not remembered as a last grasp to save us. Ideally, I wanted it to be in a time of love and tranquility instead of the current tension we have now. If I were to try now or anytime recently, I think it would have been incredibly awkward and embarrassing. I can barely keep her on the phone over a minute or two without her getting flustered, so I just didn't think it was a good idea. Do ya'll see it differently? Any further advice would be much appreciated.

[Gentry_2000]

Since I last wrote, my ex has spoken with my mom more than myself. Mom was in town as she had some time off and decided to stay through Mother's Day. I told my ex via e-mail she'd be in town. Next thing I know she is contacting my mom for coffee. During the talk, I understand that my mom stated that she knew I was hoping to work things out and taken a number of steps to put that in motion successfully. My ex's response was that "it didn't matter now." Pretty bold to say to my mom. I don't know if she wanted to clear the air with her personally, send a message to me, or just say goodbye, but the whole situation did not have a good feel to it.

 

Personally, I spoke to her on two occasions. To pass along my mom's number, and to ask her to take care of our animals while I was away this next week (as I have been doing since she's been gone 9+ weeks, along with house cleaning, yard work, etc.) . On a third occasion I called to let her know that her computer printer wasn's working and was screened. This is over the course of four days and maybe a total of three minutes combined talking. It is unreal that we have gotten to this point. I keep getting advice to back up and give her time, but everytime we are apart she slips farther away. When we are together things are great, a future does seem like a possibility and there is "us." Most folks in her support network are campaigning against me and supporting her current actions only because I rarely hung out with them in the six years we went out. They didn't have the opportunity to see that I was not the devil incarnate and only the product of a handful of a bad stories, but a person who both made their friend happy and cared dearly for her. I am up against alot and things keep slipping further away. Its so disappointing that I now in a position after 6 years to give her everything she's always wanted from me only to find out that the time may have passed. The feeling appear to be there, but are usually suppressed, and there are no friends challenging her decision. What to do? Anybody else been it this point?

[Goldfish6888]

Hi Jent

 

Sorry to hear about these new developments. I would say, the fact she is keeping in touch with your mom, means she is not "quite" ready to let you go yet. I'm saying this, because I did the same thing with my Ex's mom, right the way up to last Christmas 06, when I got lovely card and present from her.

 

Why did I stay in contact with his mom? I guess I wanted to "get" to him in a way. I wanted him to "feel" my pain. I wanted her, to know, who I thought was a lovely woman, how awful her son was to me. Whilst I resisted the temptation of "bad mouthing him" to her, I did say it was "over between us". And it was comforting to hear her words that she would've been proud of having me as a daughter in law. I needed some sort of validation from her as I was not getting this from her son and never got it.

 

In terms of what to do? I'm not sure, as you appear to have "done" most textbook things to "let" her know you are now a changed man and willing to offer her all she wanted now.

 

I really think you are going to just have to give her space. The fact she was in contact with your mom was a good thing. It means she wanted you still in her life, in some way. It also was a way to "get" to you. Maybe even hurt you back? I'm guessing here as every woman is different. She is hurting..I think for sure. Respect this and her space and let her feelings be her map and guide (either towards you or away from you). If it is meant to be, she will return. She knows how you feel. I don't think you can do any more, but give her headspace and time.

[Gentry_2000]

goldfish and all,

 

I appreciate your advice once again and it appears the advice is spot on. She will not let go. She keeps putting off the talk on what to do with our shared house and is not moving her stuff out. That's the extent of the positive vibes. I had been out of the country with some friends who were gracious enough to include me on a getaway trip. It was difficult to fully appreciate the trip, but there were fleeting moments I was able to enjoy myself.

 

The few moments of peace though evaporated immediately when I arrived home. She was still there at 10:00 at night even though I made it clear I'd be back by Sunday evening to take care of the animals. I thought about driving on to a friends house, but went inside nonetheless to drop off my luggage and attempt to relax after spending literally the entire day in various airports. Well, of course, we had another relationship conversation. I finally got her to admit she slept with her "friend." It was crushing, but not nearly as bad as I thought...almost as though it was expected or at the very least, not surprising. Still, it was barely a week since she and I were last together. The only reason I even thought it was a possibility is because one of my friends just so happened to see her with this guy (in another town over 2:30 hours away...crazy luck, although "luck" probably isn't the right word). I think I've exhausted myself down that much. I continued the conversation talking about us and my feelings and so forth even after that revelation.

 

It wasn't until I left for the evening (to stay at a friends) that I felt the need to call back. I wanted her to know that I wasn't going to make rash proclamations, but this new information could be the final straw. I don't know if we could ever go back or start anew or whatever terminology she wanted to put to it.

 

Thing is when I was out of the country, she e-mailed, she called and she really seemed to want information where I was at. The sudden loss of control made her act differently as she has the past few weeks (although my sister ended any of that by telling her where I was when she called my house). She also talked about how it was to stay in the house alone for the past week (previously she has been staying at a friends). It gives a whole new prospective on what it is like to not be with each other, a prospective I've had for a while now. In the end she still says she is confused...or at least she is confused upon seeing me. Other than that, I think her actions say otherwise. Anyhow, that's the latest.

[Gentry_2000]

New info yet again. After hanging out three of the last four days things were finally looking up. She invited me to dinner, she met me at work to hold each other for a few minutes, and she took me up on a happy hour invite. During these meetings I finally was able to steer clear of relationship talk. It was really fulfilling and she was able to see that all that we once had still existed. We could talk about anything and nothing at length. When the relationship did come up it was her doing. When we did hold each other and kiss at the car, she was the one that ran after me after I left for one more hug and kiss. I thought things were looking up. We planned a meeting once again at the a local wine festival. It is now summer for her (she a teacher) so I envisioned this as a fresh start and a great opportunity to build again from the ground up...keeping everything that was wonderful and leaving behind the pain.

 

Well, it all came crashing down...quick. She cancelled the wine festival outing out of the blue. I couldn't help but make that a relationship conversation. She said she was going to stop talking to the other guy (I didn't ask, she volunteered to do such). On one occasion he called while we were hugging...it was irritating, but an awkward joke was made and we carried on. I really wanted to believe that she could put it on the backburner for now.

 

Fast forward to yesterday morning. I came over early to our shared house (as I have been staying elsewhere) to she if we could spend the day laying around talking, and building on the past few days. She wasn't there. I was worried as we have two animals that need to be tended to. I stuck around, getting more angry with each minute, until around 1:30. Literally as I was walking out of the driveway, I saw her pull up. The conversation was long and pretty definite. Her "friend" was in town (the one she wasn't going to talk to --- of which i later find out there was a 2 hr conversation the day before, hence maybe the cancellation of the wine fest plans) and she was going to hang out with him.

 

The last time they "hung out" she made a very big mistake that caused significant damage to any hopes of our future. She admitted it was wrong and the she was making very unhealthy decisions for herself, and what was left of us. Nonetheless, I spent a few hours asking her to reconsider this pending visit...if it is what she eventually wants, it appears it will still be there down the road. For now though, we were building on a few good nights, and to see it run into the ground once again would be devestating. I admitted to her, I wanted to trust that she would do what was best, but based on recent history I was scared of what would transpire. I mean, I thought I was finally seeing the fruits of my three months of effort to make us work. I pushed hard in my message, and she pushed harder back. The more I asked her to think of us, the more she said she didn't want it. She then said that she is letting herself fall in love with this person and that I had to let it go. Quite a transition from when she was talking about we would have to do to make things work just two days back. The capper was that as she was in her car, window down and me talking to her from the outside...her phone rang. It was the "friend" and I said "go ahead answer." I really didn't expect her to, but she did just that...and talked for 5-10 minutes. She was trying to carry on a normal conversation, but tears starting running down her eyes. I didn't get it, was she feeling guilty, embarrassed? I just know that it was torture to see her talk to somebody else in front of my very eyes, and then to compare how we were relating with how she spoke to him. I know our conversations aren't us, its trying to get through a rough patch...but as long as he is there, she'll never give us the effort. I guess after 6 years together and 3 additional months of trying to make it work with all my heart, I have become the "other man." I want us, but it's hard to make out the possibility, I am the only one fighting this battle it seems. Can anyone tell me how we made such progress finally only to make it come down like a house of cards in the course of less than a day?

[rokston]

Hey Jent,

 

Sorry about you situation, it sounds tough and pretty confusing!

 

I think that the only thing you can do is to let her go completely and look only towards your own life. It seems like she has deep feelings for you and may decide to come back but this will only work is she reaches such a conclusion on her own. I dont think it matters how hard YOU try to make this work - she needs to do the work too.

 

Just pull back, be patient, look after yourself and see if her love for you is strong enough to sustain a long term future relationship. This is probably the hardest thing to do (I know I am struggling) but I dont see what else you can do. She's got to clear up her mind.

 

Best of luck, I hope things work out for you! To be honest, it sounds like she's pretty damn lucky to have someone as open-minded and supportive as you've been!

 

Take care,

 

-R

[Gentry_2000]

So, things are about where they have been for some time. This whole fiasco started in late February. I was startled to see the calendar today, June 1. That's a long time to be holding out. Her "confusion" knows no bounds. Thing is she has the best of both worlds, me the ex of six years trying to reconcile and something new that has "hope" apparently now on center stage.

 

Today I went over to our house for the first time since Monday. In the meantime, we saw each other just once, totally by coincidence at a restaurant, while I was with another girl (just on a friendly basis, but in her guilty mind she assumed it was more. Glad it wasn't the other way around or it might have been bad).

 

Anyhow, today I decided that we had to talk about "business," what to do with the house, the animals, etc. I came in and told her my desire to have that talk if she saw no changes in the future of our relations (not the first time I've asked to discuss this) and she completely shut down. I simply cannot get her to sit down and discuss the situation. I am entirely at a loss. We need to sell the place, rent it out, etc., but something needs to be done. I don't want to continue paying my end of the mortgage when I'm not there. I also can't take this dragging out any more. In theory I could leave, but, 1. the place I am at is not entirely comfortable, and 2. then who knows how long she'll stay at our place --- possibly indefinitely.

 

She appears to know what she wants (not us), so why will she not take the final step? What can I do to make it happen? Any suggestions would be great, I'm all out of ideas!

[rokston]

i think you should make several serious attempts at initiating the conversation regarding your shared properties and animals. perhaps try different medium - face to face, email, phone etc. each attempt should be of increasing severity and perhaps if she is refusing to discuss, give a mention to getting lawyers involved because you simply MUST have closure.

 

it sounds like your situation is very messy and the ex- is taking the ultimate of selfish routes regarding it. although it would be very unfortunate to go this far perhaps you should really consider legal advice if things are not changing - document correspondence with her and resolve all the financial issues. it sounds like she is using emotional reasons for essentially indirectly benefiting financially.. that's pretty low.

 

sorry you are going through this. i hope you get a good resolution soon!!

[Gentry_2000]

I actually started another thread in the meantime, but as an update...the ex and I theoretically gave it a chance. We lived at our home together (for the first time in a few months) for a bit over a week. She said she felt the same romantic love of before when we were together one night and that is what, combined with what I later learned to be a sense of obligation, led her to "try."

 

When I say "try" she was there in body/presense only. By midweek she was already doubting if we would work --- although this was glossed over on her part in saying, "See, I'm opening up, that's good, right?" Anyhow it was building up to her telling the other man that they would no longer be able to correspond. I equated that with her finally making a move to better our situation. Eventually she did talk with him and claimed to have said goodbye. That didn't stop her from doing the same to us less than 48 hours later when she declared in public that she no longer wanted our relationship. Quite a turnaround from admittedly taking a step for "us" in the very recent past.

 

So, although hesitant, I opened up, things looked great, and in the end I, as feared, was driven back to square one. Currently she is on a roadtrip, to get "clarity." Nonetheless, we did have the talk before she left about what we would do with our shared home. It appears we will both go our separate directions and rent it out. She admitted that what ever I say at this point she'll do the opposite. If I say the sky is blue, she'll say its green. She says she needs to get away b/c she wants to be alone, not in order for us to get back together...yet in the same conversation mentions that she wouldn't be opposed to that happening in the long run.

 

These contradictions don't seem to end. She see's hope and a future and then the next minute says she can't envision spending a lifetime together. Tell's me that out of respect to our relationship won't talk to this other person, but then later says that she wants her freedom and if the mood strikes she'll call him if she wants. She wants to still talk and date once we move to separate places, but wants to be free to see others too.

 

I want to break this cycle. Time away may be good theory, but lately we've connected only in each other presense. She recognizes she is making questionable decisions, acting uncharacteristically, and in general being a witch...still the negative behavior doesn't stop. I thought there was finally progress (this whole ordeal started in late February, and I've been trying to be patient and supportive since) until she stopped things in their tracks after only a week of being back together. Looking for ideas, b/c apparently none of mine have reversed/changed things yet!

[Coyote9]

goldfish and all,

 

II finally got her to admit she slept with her "friend." It was crushing, but not nearly as bad as I thought...almost as though it was expected or at the very least, not surprising. Still, it was barely a week since she and I were last together.

.

 

HI Jent....this is an amazing story and I feel for you and what you have gone through. I too recently was dumped by a woman I had hoped to marry, athough I never actually proposed either. I'd say everything else that's been said here pretty much gets trumped by what your ex did with her "friend." I have no way of knowing if mine actually slept with someone else, but like you, I had all the signs at the end that her interest level was somewhere else other than towards me.

 

I know you love this woman but do you want to marry someone who has cheated on you, even if in her mind she technically didn't because you were broken up? I have been on both sides of this....my ex left her previous boyfriend for me and we were intimate within two weeks of her "taking a break" from him. What I realized at the end of my relationship is that, she likely did it again to me with someone else, People don't change unless they are faced with painful consequences.

 

NC is the only thing you have to show here that you aren't a doormat and what she did was wrong, period. It's also the fastest way to begin to move through this difficult time and begin to heal and move on. I'm not one to give advice, but, having been in your shoes in a similiar situation, I would turn and walk away and not look back.

Coyote

[catren]

Oh Jent, don't you just hate the word "clarity"!!!!!!!!!!

[Gentry_2000]

It's been over two months since I updated my story.

 

Now almost six months into our situation, things appear to be working toward a resolution.

 

The beginning of this month started what might have been a turning point. She finally decided that she needed to be on her own. Although we have not lived under the same roof since March, excluding a few nights here or there, our stuff still resided in our shared home. As the month began she had cleared out her room and most of the office. She still has a number of belongings in the home that she left based on something I mentioned. Anyhow her intentions are to get a sublet until the end of the year and possibly reevaluate where we are at that time.

 

Still, I was counting down the hours until she left at the beginning of the month. Funny thing, the month preceding it, we spent more time together than we had since this whole process began. It was fun, often light, with only the occasional relationship talk. She discovered she "could come back" to us given time and that she felt we were "rewriting the script." She didn't want me to "give up on her" and felt that she was "falling back in love." She didn't communicate with the other man for a number of weeks except for a lone visit where she claimed to say goodbye. We spent each of the last six days before she left. It felt like old times. It also felt like it was an odd way to conclude our time together. I didn't feel good about the pending move (I am staying in the home for the time being), yet she would assure, that this is what would have to happen for us to come back together and that just b/c she is leaving doesn't necessarily mean the end of us.

 

Those were the words. The actions though differed. She said that she couldn't commit to making an effort for us. When I asked what I had to hold onto she stated that she didn't know. She said that she would communicate, and even see, the other man if she felt compelled. So really, what had changed? Nothing it seems. Six months and here we are.

 

Since she has left she has been on vacation. The first leg was at a festival that she and I were supposed to attend together halfway accross the country. She bailed only a week before we were to depart (leaving me with a prepaid hotel and nobody to go with), so I asked a friend. Nonetheless, she resolved to attend the festival despite breaking our shared plans. I even agreed to see her once I arrived (although I told her it would not fly for her to stay at the hotel with us). The time we spend was good, but only after I was very angry that she had decided to attend the event. From there she continued to see her family in another part of the country. I asked one thing from her...not to see the other man (who had since moved from our state to another). She agreed. It was a step towards rebuilding the trust she shattered from previous lies and infidelity.

 

I guess you can guess what happened when I talked to her upon her return. We had not been in contact for over two weeks, mostly upon her request. She called once, but didn't ask that I return the call, so I let it be. So when I spoke to her last night she admitted that she had hung out with this guy again. I was dumbfounded that after the month we had shared, and the strides we were beginning to make, that she would trade it all in for one afternoon and a dinner with this guy. She was staying with her family and she gave me the impression they disapproved of her actions as well. Add that to the promise she made me and the end result...another lie and a further slide in trust (if that was at all possible).

 

I told her I don't know if I can continue to talk with her. She says she is no closer to coming back now than months ago, but that she still loves me. She says she understands if I have to walk away. It's not what she wants, but she seemed very comfortable accepting those circumstances if they come to fruition.

 

Thing is she has wanted this time to live alone. She has yet to even start the clock on that. She has yet to get her sublet as the stuff she moved out is just in temporary storage. If that was the catalyst to change I was willing to see what became of the situation after she had this "independence" that she claims was so dearly needed. The current betrayal though has put up another roadblock. How can I rely on anything she says? She recognizes her mistakes, admits to them, apologizes, and then continues to make one mistep after the next. I, too, made mistakes in our relationship, but I believe I have done everything in my power to make things right. I could not change the past, but I sure did everything to relieve whatever reservations she had regarding a future.

 

Funny, our conversation last night ended with her being frusterated and eventually hanging up. I was the one that had to digest another lie and she is the one that had enough re: our discussion. What is there to hold onto? The answer seems obvious, I know.

[Gentry_2000]

I had left this forum for a few months. I was drawn back with Rokston's posts. He and I found ourselves in limbo at around the same time...for me 9 months ago. I don't want to threadjack, so I'm pulling up my own story from months ago. My ex, who cheated, was still leaving the door open for us. I am willing to forgive. I have fought for this. I have worked on me, in hopes of an us. I have been happy to respond to her initial requests...I was just glad she was able to put some of her feelings to words. Our situation was a bit different from a traditional break-up. We had to talk and work through some of the reasons for her infidelity. We had a number of couples counseling sessions. There were weeks we went NC, but for the most part we remained in LC, regarding us, the pets, and the shared house. We had lived together for 5 years...it was a marriage without the license.

 

Last week I opened up the door of communications again with the ex. We had only seen each other once since she moved out in late September. We have talked occasionally (maybe once every other week over the phone).

In the week leading up to Thanksgiving we talked for four out of five days. It went well. We saw each other in person two days in a row. We had productive conversations about us...as well has some arguments. I assume the latter to be natural. We were also physically together (short of sex) for the first time in months. I saw her new apartment and our shared cat who lives with her. I laid in her lap...felt safe for even that brief time. I noticed her apartment was a mess. Most of her things still weren't unpacked after two months. She still didn't have a mattress (she was sleeping on a futon that doubles as a couch). This is a very intelligent, beautiful, professional women living as though she was a bachleor. I asked if she was thinking of returning to our house...she said she had thought about it.

 

She left promising that we'd meet up for dinner/drinks and continue to work towards finding out where we were at.

She also called on Thanksgiving and we had a genuinely good conversation.

 

Then...

 

I returned home yesterday. We talked and she agreed to stop by. She said she had a card. I knew that wasn't good. It was in fact a "Dear John" type letter. She stated she knows that we still have many good things between us, but that she wasn't going to work on us. She stated that she was not going to return home. She stated that she could not and would not open her heart again to me. All this after she is the one who cheated...she is the one that has created this divide. There has been 9 months of limbo...this seems very definitive. We talked for a while and then she "had to go." I tried to get her to stay, she wouldn't I went over to her place...she wouldn't talk. She later called very late in the evening. I was of course up...devestated...unable to sleep.

 

We proceed to have an hour long conversation. I tell her I want her to make things right...that I still envision her in my future, as my wife, as the mother of my children. She is home, she is family, she is what brings me the most happiness. She hears me, she acknowledges that we still have a chance, but that it's 'unrealistic.' She is still talking to the affair partner who is halfway accross the country now. They started off in an affair, they'd now have to begin a relationship long distance, and we live less than 5 miles apart. It makes no sense that our situation is the one without hope.

 

I talk about the fog that those who are in affairs are often caught in. I talk about the likelihood that she is recreating our history...that she is making me and our relationship out to be something that it is not. Everytime we spend time together we get closer...she goes away (to Thanksgiving with her sisters in this instance) and things go sour. It is the opposite of everything I read...that when you disappear, go NC, that they can recognize what they miss. For us, she recognizes it when we are together...we come closer and closer and then she gets scared and runs away.

 

It's happenend again. This time she seems to really be drawing the line. I want to break through. I believe in her and us. This has drained me...9 months of cake eating, fence sitting and rejection.

[rokston]

Heya Gentry,

 

Thanks for your post!!

 

Reading your latest update it strikes me that amidst all the similarity there are some differences in our situations.

 

Reconciliation in your case is convenient. I mean that in the sense of location, mutual belongings etc. In mine it is anything but. We live in different countries, she has no clear career path, she is a dreamer. Choosing to be with me would be anything but convenient.

 

So maybe the forces pulling our exes are the same. It is just pulling them in opposite directions. Doing the thing that makes sense is pulling your ex towards you and pulling mine away from me.

 

Anyways, just a thought. It will be interesting to see if either situation resolves into something or both dwindle into the past..

 

As for the latest in your situation. I am tempted to give the usual advice - leave her be, she needs to fight for you, she has to make things right etc. But then I know how difficult it is to do. And anyways what do I know - it's not like my situation is getting better.

 

Of course you have to fight for those you love. On many levels. But maybe at some point we all get fed up with fighting for it or doing anything for it and just let go. It just drains too much for one to be doing all the believing for two.

[Gentry_2000]

I had been reading other familiar situations over the past week and felt I should update my own.

 

Since late November, and after receiving a "Dear John" type letter, I have had minimal contact with my ex. We met to jointly talk to realtors about selling our house. Upon completing our last meeting with a realtor, and prior to here leaving for a few weeks before the holidays, I brought to her attention how much those weeks meant to me. She was going to be spending apart of that time with family, only an hour away from the other man. We had not been apart during the holidays, esp. New Year's, and was anxious as to the choices she'd make on her own. I left it at that.

 

Since exchanging voice messages on Christmas Eve/Christmas, there have been no phone calls...only the occasional e-mail discussing business regarding the house. Until last week...

 

I have taken a step back...finally digesting that nothing I say will ever change things. I've been waiting for her to come to me...To tell me how she spent her 30th birthday (one in which I had previously made huge plans to celebrate, but obviously wasn't able to follow through on)...how she spent her holidays...if she'd thought further about our situation since there has been no pressure for answers...to tell me what exactly is the story with a guy half-way accross the country.

 

Those are the things I was hoping for when we ran into each other last week. We have worked for a local festival going on four years now. It's an over week long event and takes alot of preparation. One of the first steps is recruiting volunteers to help with the event. We, along with a few others on the staff, were to meet at a conference center for a good portion of the afternoon. It turns out she called one of the staff members in advance to let them know we were no longer together...so that way our shifts wouldn't overlap. Nonetheless, we run into each other as I'm leaving and she's arriving.

 

It's great to see her. It's almost as though no time has passed. The conversation is fun, I share some of what I've been up to and she does the same. It only last 10 minutes...before she leaves I take her hand and tell her "I miss you." She starts to tear up and tell me she can't do 'this' now. I understand...we exchange hugs and say goodbye.

 

A week later we meet up again for the same reason, this time a meeting with the staff. Afterwards, we both mill around. It is the first real conversation we've had in a while. I don't ask anything of her. I don't tell her want I want (although it's likely clear). I tell her I want to hear what she has to say. I only offer where I'm at and point out that this is what unconditional love looks like (she questioned that I ever held that for her in our six years together). She says she still thinks about us...that she felt the same as me the week before upon seeing me and talking for that brief time. Yet, again she wants to pursue something with this other person and does not have hope for us. Nonetheless, she is not planning on moving to be together with him. Beyond that, she admits that she is dragging her feet on selling the house...I suggest that it might be because of 'us' and she admits that's true. She still sorting stuff out, but she says its for herself not for any possibility of an 'us.' I still see contradictions, and I still see a real internal struggle within herself.

 

I'm glad things have evolved enough within me to let her do what she is going to do and not try to change things I cannot. Still, seeing her is incredibly hard, and knowing that she is having difficulty as well...I just wish she had to courage to pick up the phone and share herself...and I wish I didn't continue to allow her to see vunerability. It was her infidelity that caused this divide, yet I'm the one still allowing her to look into my world. For those that got through this thanks for following along.