selfish mess

[bug]

taking the plunge - new to this.

I'm 39 and have been married for 12 years to a good man, with as many faults as the rest of us. We have two boys 9 and 12.

I have been having an affair for 2 years. 95% of it is online, and intimate conversations. I feel seen. I feel heard. I feel listened to. I feel loved for my insides not my outsides. The other 5% is passionate, wild and crazy, physical intimacy, which unfortunately aways results in guilt, shame and attempts to distance ourselves from each other. It's become a horrible pattern, that's very painful. He's married too. He's totally paranoid and the lengths at which he goes to eliminate any trace of me, makes me sad. I've become emotionally dependent on him, feeling like he's the only one who truly understands me... Intellectually, I know all sorts of things to the contrary of all of this, but there's this desperate part of me that needs to exist.

Over the past 18 months, I've lost weight, can't focus on work, home, family - it's consuming me... Not so much the affair, as much as what to do with my marriage. I supoose I could make that easier if I'd just be honest with my husband. Although part of me believes he'd still want to work it out, I can't be sure and even if he did, I know he'd be hurt so badly - and yes, that would hurt me too. I've reasons other than the affair to substantiate divorce, so I feel like I should just focus on those with him - spare the animocity and pain - mainly for the sake of the kids (yes me too) but when he's angry with me, he's hard on the kids... his boundaries are not healthy about what I think he'd share with them - as children. We've been through counseling, gone to seminars etc on improving your marriage, etc. I think I gave up just before my energies went elsewhere. I'm tired of trying to be someone I'm not so that he's happy and I don't want him to change for me either.

I'm afraid for the kids emotional health and well being.

I'm afraid about all the complexities of separating assets and my future financial security.

There's much more to all this as I'm sure most of you already know... just needed to throw out a line, any thoughts other that how much of a {Mod Edit} I am.

[lady00]

I think regardless of what you did, you are just not happy in this marriage and you need to take the steps to end it. You are not a horrible person. Far worse things have been done. I don't see the good in constantly beating yourself up about it. You made a mistake but I you can move past it. I don't think there is any need to bring up the affair. Do you have people you can turn to for support? Do you have access to therapy? I think you need to collect together anything that will help you through this. Yes, what you did is bad but it doesn't define you. You need to do what is best for you and your kids and staying together with someone whom you're not happy with is probably a bad idea.

[Dilly]

Hey Bug, first off HUGS to you. I know you are miserable right now in your holding pattern. I always hesitate to answer these types of threads because like a drug addict, I feel many people deeply entwined in a love affair WANT it to continue and have sort of disconnected themselves from the reality that you can't have both.

 

Knowing this, I also know that many men in a love affair really don't want to give up their families. I suspect this is true for your paramour.

 

You may have fallen in love with the idea of this man and the good that he has managed magically to bring about it you, but I promise, that has more to do with you than him. The magic always resides within us to transition into better people, amazing people. I really believe that you might love this person you have become more than you love this man. Honestly, you can continue possibly as friends, but I would encourage you to see within yourself the beauty that has manifested over time by this affair and let it go. Continue to be in the marriage with your husband and children because your heart is possibly just betraying you now.

 

If you must leave the marriage, I would encourage you not to worry so much about the children. Children are strong, resilient creatures and the only thing I think that they have trouble comprehending is deceipt. Try not to deceive anyone anymore. That is your biggest crime. You really must understand that all the good that has manifested by this interaction with this man is really manifesting itself through the vehicle of deceipt and that can never be good. YOu can have it all, the good by getting of the actions that cause you to deceive.

 

My two cents. I know it's hard, but this isn't where your heart should be. And I gather you know it. You sounds strong and intelligent. Look at what it's doing to you now, losing focus, ect... it's time to end it.

[Dilly]

You need to do what is best for you and your kids and staying together with someone whom you're not happy with is probably a bad idea.

 

I can not argue with Lady00. But I would caution that sometimes, we conclude that we are tired of our signif's BECAUSE we know someone else gives us more of what we want (validation, complements, etc). BUT be careful not to confuse unhappiness with your husband with preference to be with the other man. That's a jaded perspective.

[Scout]

Hi, bug...welcome to eNotalone.

 

Just out of curiosity...if the other man wasn't in the picture, do you know what you'd want? For example, do you think you'd be happier out of your marriage, even if there wasn't someone else to take the place of your husband?

[bug]

wow, what incredible replies... thank you.

sobbing as I read through them, many of the thoughts and ideas I have integrated and believe intellectually, but I can't seem to get my emotions / actions to follow.

I've been seeing a therapist this entire time. I've read about 100 books. I've sought out spiritual guidance, even explored other "religions" philosophies, and beliefs... sometimes I think I just overwhelm myself. -point is I don't want to leave "a rock uncovered" I'm not afraid of this being all about my unresolved issues, what bothers me most about that is that I'm doing "wrong" to others because of my own s--t.

It's not even about being with another man, or some romantic ideal... it's just about being seen, being with someone who encourages me to be seen, being with someone where we both encourage each others personal growth & healing. Sometimes I lead the way, sometimes they lead the way, most of the time we're together, but it's ok to be apart too. I guess it would be safe to say I don't want to be alone forever, but I do believe that when I'm ready (whatever that is I'm ready for) it will come into my life.

Yes, this holding pattern is killing me - need to find a safe soft place to land.

Yes, I do think I'd be wanting to leave regardless of this "other man". He's just as confused - no, probably more & yes, most likely going to remain where he's at.

So, does anyone subscribe to the idea of completely cutting myself off from him?

[Dilly]

Yes, I think you should cut him out of your life. It will be hard but it will come down to you doing this now or him doing this to you later or worst case scenario, you hurting the ones who truly love you, your family. You might not know it now, but you will probably regret the interactions you've had with this other person years down the road and you may appreciate your husband and family more than you ever might imagine. I know it's tough, but I vote that you let it go and that you stay on this board with us and get strong. You sound like a bright, wonderful woman and I'm sorry you are going through this but you do have some control and you must remember that this might be the hardest thing you ever do.

[lady00]

So, does anyone subscribe to the idea of completely cutting myself off from him?

 

I do think you need to cut the other man out of the picture. You've just got so many other things to deal with that it would just complicate your feelings and make it hard for you to do the things you need to do. Also, he needs to figure himself out and see if he wants to remain in his marriage etc. He's got a lot to think about too. It just seems like right now that maintaining contact would be far too stressful and counterproductive than cutting off contact.

[Scout]

Hi, Bug...was there ever a point in time where you felt your husband did see you, did acknowledge and appreciate you? Who supported your dreams and desires?

[Cyberchick]

I agree with the other posters --- cut the other man out of your life. He's attached to someone else too, it makes the whole situation even more complicated and painful. He needs to sort himself out. I agree with someone else on here that you will regret getting involved with him down the road. I had an affair once --- I was single, he was married. Actually I've had a couple of affairs. They were the worst decisions I ever made. They haunt me still. I don't want that to happen to you.

[bug]

thank you Dilly, I believe what you are saying is true for me - that I should cut him out. It's a "no brainer" considering the pain it would cause friends and family, but now, it's taking it's toll on my soul... I believe there is a reason for it all, but it's excruciatingly painful. Trying to understand where he gets this strong emotional foothold into my psych/heart, see if I can't weaken his hold, by healing it myself..............

There is this something, I can't tell if it's good or bad anymore.(not a good sign, discernment?) Because of loving him, I have found a way to be more loving of myself...(obviously sounds good but I still wonder) He's riddled with bullet holes like us all, but the way he turns it all in on himself - I can see it so clearly, see my own ways by seeing his more than ever before... The amount of love and kindness I've felt for him has been infinite & fueled by energy I wasn't always creating myself, it was flowing through me... I hope someone can relate... (I'm still workin on that one myself) At some point I was actually able to access my own internal critic and tone it down, if not outright defend myself from myself! I don't know, maybe this all sounds weird, maybe it just is... Starting to consider how I feel is all a projection... so be it & despite no appetite, lumps in my throat, sore stomach muscles from crying, feeling rejected, guilt and self condemnation about my marital status... By showing him compassion and loving this man and receiving next to nothing in return, I have found a voice and a way to show it and give it to myself. Guess it's time I start on this... what a gift, I think? ~ I welcome support, thank you.

[bug]

It helps to remember that I'm only prolonging unhappiness and hurting him by participating in this relationship with him - he does have a lot to sort out.

[bug]

ok scout, like this direction... It's a double edge sword of a question, was there a point where he ever did see me? (or to that effect) I think he did to the extent he wanted to and to the extent I was showing him. I think when life's circumstances required me to completely share... it's too much for him. It's like he doesn't talk in that language. I knew that when I married him... I knew he was "lighter with thought, skimmed the surface" and was okay with that... I'm the one that needs to thourally investigate, find emotional closure & such before I can move on. Destrutive pattern of male wanting to "fix" issues led him to deny that my concerns were valid in the first place because he didn't know what to do... that is a pattern he is counsciously aware of and still goes down that path... everytime he does, I feel like he doesn't see me at all, he just cares about how he want's things to "appear" - a big thing with him. He knows how bad things are. He's accepted me withdrawing. He just cannot acknoledge his contributions and participate in resolving even small things. - yeah, I've thought it through, comin back at me too... make sense?

[Dilly]

I think you understand yourself and that's the key. That's so much half the battle. You see this affair as a mere projection of your own growing love for yourself and the only thing he is is a vehicle for that love to keep fueling your self-love. It's wise that you see this. That's half the battle. And notice youre getting unanimous feedback on this topic from all who have responded. Very interesting.

[Dilly]

It helps to remember that I'm only prolonging unhappiness and hurting him by participating in this relationship with him - he does have a lot to sort out.

 

I don't like all of the empathy you show for this other man. It competes with something inside of you that needs to express itself.

[bug]

yes, the unanimus direction of everyone's reply has been very helpful, all of them!

I do think the love I feel for "this man" has much to do with my own self growth, healing, etc. For that, I am grateful. Sadly, that is what I wish I had in my marriage, even if it's painful at times, I just want to grow and heal and be that vehicle for someone else to do that with too. So, it's safe to say, that's been my payoff for having the affair.

How do I know when it's time to end my marriage and how can I do it and forgive myself? The encorporated parent within keeps saying "unless your being beaten, cheeted on repetedly, or he's a drug addict, you cannot leave"... a part of me says f- that, who's makin' up the rules here, you deserve to be happy...

The emapathy I feel for this man competes with what I need to express, along with others... The empathy of my children (I come from divoced parents) even though my experience doesn't have to be the same for them, deep down that is what I fear. Even the empathy I have for my husband competes! I'm trying so hard to focus on healthy boundaries, empathize but not let it inhibit me from pursuing my own needs and being true to myself. I can remember this feeling I used to get when my children were infants, at the end of the day... my husband used to come home and say, "so, how are you". Most often I gave the standard "I'm fine answer" but the truth was, I was so out of touch with myself, my own thoughts, my own feelings, that I wouldn't have even known what to say. Being conscious of how much empathy I feel for others has always been a challenge, I always have to remind myself of "the middle"... hoping one day I won't have to work so hard at it. re-writting programs is so difficult, any tips?

thx for seeing me.

[Dilly]

You're so freakin' bright. I can see that you process information very well and take lots of perspectives into consideration to really balance your own views. You have empathy for lots of people, including yourself, so I have no problem accepting the idea that you will forgive yourself. I just know you will. I know your children will forgive you and your husband, also. BUT if you break up your family and undergo some identity crisis trying to get this emotional (and/or physical) affair to continue, you will suffer immensely. I'm serious. You will cause harm not only to your family, but to his and then, whether you want to or not, that empathy flow will have to extend in a few more directions to his wife and his children IF IN FACT you are truly empathetic. I am not saying you aren't, but it's a challenge I ask of you to consider whether you are taking THEM into consideration. I don't believe in guilt trips, and I certainly don't think you should feel obligated to stay in a relationship unless it involves blatant abuse, etc. BUT you should take a noble exit out of it and leave the other man behind forever. I don't like being hard core at anything but I will say I feel strongly about this and I know you (being so bright and open and empathetic) will do the right thing. I just know you will and the right thing is to back out of this relationship with this other man, while you have the chance to back out and are not pushed out. You need to do it because it will free you from the guilt that you will otherwise feel if you don't. Honestly, if you don't back out of the affair, AND you break up the family formally by announcing a desire to divorce, you will always carry with you that dark bag of secrets and that is a bag that should be thrown away and burned now before you make the decision to leave. Kick him to the curb. You think you need him. You really, really don't. I promise.

[bug]

your input is rock solid, I know it and with it, I feel much stronger to do that which you suggest. I haven't been empathetic with "all parties" - certainly not consistently... we go in cycles where we're close & then I pull away when I'm honest with myself about the reality of "all parties" ... he does the same...