bug

right on lady00, with all of your above post. *exercise is key... hard to feel mentally down, when you're body is surging and pumping alive!

I see in your signature line "cry out to Jesus" so I'll go here... get down on your knees and pray. Release your pain and suffering, surrender it over to God. FOCUS: on what you can control. You can control your thinking, don't think those thoughts and if that fails, surrender to them. What's the absolute worst thing that will happen if someone is bad mouthing you? Talking s--t about someone is really a reflection of how lacking in character the person is. The people who are descent human beings, who know you and who you would want in your life... they won't believe the cr-p someone else says about you. BESIDES - you cannot contol what other people think, say or do... you have to let it go. I always think about things I can't control like that as a traffic jam. When you're stuck in traffic, you can fret, cuss, rant, rave, honk your horn, go bizurk! What good does that do you? You can't magically make the traffic go away... you could smash the car ahead of you in, but then you're really scre-ed! You have to let it go, you just have to. Accept that you'll be late by being stuck in traffic and move on in your mind with your thinking. Good ol' serenity prayer: GOD, GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE, TO CHANGE THE THINGS THAT I CAN AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE *If however, none of this helps and you can't stop thinking persacutory thoughts (thinking others are out to get you) than reach out for more help, talk with someone in person. Don't ever stop seeking help, you will find it and you will get through this. *Here's another mantra I like - What you think about, comes about! so, think about things that feel good.

Diggitydave~ hang in there! I am struggling too with my mind constantly going back to him, like I'm on auto pilot, he seems to be where my mind always returns to. For me, I've decided that this is when conscious thinking, being aware of when you're starting to think about her is key. Like an addiction, the more energy you give, even if in thought, the more you're investing in the relationship, the stronger the hold. As soon as you become aware you're thinking about her, redirect your thoughts to something else, anything else, just "change the channel" as quickly as possible. Once I heard that the reason why we're so broken hearted isn't necessarily because we're not being loved by "that special someone" anymore, but instead,(or in addition to) it's because we aren't able to channel our love and give it to them anymore... it feels so good to love someone, our behaviors, the specialness... and then "poof" it's gone. What you're really hurting for and desperately needing is to be loved the way you love others... if someone you love was going through your situation, what things would you say to them? If someone said to your friend some of the cruel things you're saying to yourself, you'd stick up for them, right! So do it for yourself, with your own self talk. Don't look outside yourself to fill that void you now feel because you can't express love. Express it, only express it to yourself. Think about how you'd feel about a child who was hurting inside the way you are now... How would you be there for them? What ways would you show them you care? Say and do those things for yourself. (it may sound crazy, but we all have inner dialogue) There's a reason for all of it, believe that. Last but not least, if all else fails, I've been going to movies - as in the theater. I force my mind to focus on the movie and give my mental thoughts and heartache a rest!

your input is rock solid, I know it and with it, I feel much stronger to do that which you suggest. I haven't been empathetic with "all parties" - certainly not consistently... we go in cycles where we're close & then I pull away when I'm honest with myself about the reality of "all parties" ... he does the same...

yes, the unanimus direction of everyone's reply has been very helpful, all of them! I do think the love I feel for "this man" has much to do with my own self growth, healing, etc. For that, I am grateful. Sadly, that is what I wish I had in my marriage, even if it's painful at times, I just want to grow and heal and be that vehicle for someone else to do that with too. So, it's safe to say, that's been my payoff for having the affair. How do I know when it's time to end my marriage and how can I do it and forgive myself? The encorporated parent within keeps saying "unless your being beaten, cheeted on repetedly, or he's a drug addict, you cannot leave"... a part of me says f- that, who's makin' up the rules here, you deserve to be happy... The emapathy I feel for this man competes with what I need to express, along with others... The empathy of my children (I come from divoced parents) even though my experience doesn't have to be the same for them, deep down that is what I fear. Even the empathy I have for my husband competes! I'm trying so hard to focus on healthy boundaries, empathize but not let it inhibit me from pursuing my own needs and being true to myself. I can remember this feeling I used to get when my children were infants, at the end of the day... my husband used to come home and say, "so, how are you". Most often I gave the standard "I'm fine answer" but the truth was, I was so out of touch with myself, my own thoughts, my own feelings, that I wouldn't have even known what to say. Being conscious of how much empathy I feel for others has always been a challenge, I always have to remind myself of "the middle"... hoping one day I won't have to work so hard at it. re-writting programs is so difficult, any tips? thx for seeing me.

ok scout, like this direction... It's a double edge sword of a question, was there a point where he ever did see me? (or to that effect) I think he did to the extent he wanted to and to the extent I was showing him. I think when life's circumstances required me to completely share... it's too much for him. It's like he doesn't talk in that language. I knew that when I married him... I knew he was "lighter with thought, skimmed the surface" and was okay with that... I'm the one that needs to thourally investigate, find emotional closure & such before I can move on. Destrutive pattern of male wanting to "fix" issues led him to deny that my concerns were valid in the first place because he didn't know what to do... that is a pattern he is counsciously aware of and still goes down that path... everytime he does, I feel like he doesn't see me at all, he just cares about how he want's things to "appear" - a big thing with him. He knows how bad things are. He's accepted me withdrawing. He just cannot acknoledge his contributions and participate in resolving even small things. - yeah, I've thought it through, comin back at me too... make sense?

It helps to remember that I'm only prolonging unhappiness and hurting him by participating in this relationship with him - he does have a lot to sort out.

thank you Dilly, I believe what you are saying is true for me - that I should cut him out. It's a "no brainer" considering the pain it would cause friends and family, but now, it's taking it's toll on my soul... I believe there is a reason for it all, but it's excruciatingly painful. Trying to understand where he gets this strong emotional foothold into my psych/heart, see if I can't weaken his hold, by healing it myself.............. There is this something, I can't tell if it's good or bad anymore.(not a good sign, discernment?) Because of loving him, I have found a way to be more loving of myself...(obviously sounds good but I still wonder) He's riddled with bullet holes like us all, but the way he turns it all in on himself - I can see it so clearly, see my own ways by seeing his more than ever before... The amount of love and kindness I've felt for him has been infinite & fueled by energy I wasn't always creating myself, it was flowing through me... I hope someone can relate... (I'm still workin on that one myself) At some point I was actually able to access my own internal critic and tone it down, if not outright defend myself from myself! I don't know, maybe this all sounds weird, maybe it just is... Starting to consider how I feel is all a projection... so be it & despite no appetite, lumps in my throat, sore stomach muscles from crying, feeling rejected, guilt and self condemnation about my marital status... By showing him compassion and loving this man and receiving next to nothing in return, I have found a voice and a way to show it and give it to myself. Guess it's time I start on this... what a gift, I think? ~ I welcome support, thank you.

wow, what incredible replies... thank you. sobbing as I read through them, many of the thoughts and ideas I have integrated and believe intellectually, but I can't seem to get my emotions / actions to follow. I've been seeing a therapist this entire time. I've read about 100 books. I've sought out spiritual guidance, even explored other "religions" philosophies, and beliefs... sometimes I think I just overwhelm myself. -point is I don't want to leave "a rock uncovered" I'm not afraid of this being all about my unresolved issues, what bothers me most about that is that I'm doing "wrong" to others because of my own s--t. It's not even about being with another man, or some romantic ideal... it's just about being seen, being with someone who encourages me to be seen, being with someone where we both encourage each others personal growth & healing. Sometimes I lead the way, sometimes they lead the way, most of the time we're together, but it's ok to be apart too. I guess it would be safe to say I don't want to be alone forever, but I do believe that when I'm ready (whatever that is I'm ready for) it will come into my life. Yes, this holding pattern is killing me - need to find a safe soft place to land. Yes, I do think I'd be wanting to leave regardless of this "other man". He's just as confused - no, probably more & yes, most likely going to remain where he's at. So, does anyone subscribe to the idea of completely cutting myself off from him?

taking the plunge - new to this. I'm 39 and have been married for 12 years to a good man, with as many faults as the rest of us. We have two boys 9 and 12. I have been having an affair for 2 years. 95% of it is online, and intimate conversations. I feel seen. I feel heard. I feel listened to. I feel loved for my insides not my outsides. The other 5% is passionate, wild and crazy, physical intimacy, which unfortunately aways results in guilt, shame and attempts to distance ourselves from each other. It's become a horrible pattern, that's very painful. He's married too. He's totally paranoid and the lengths at which he goes to eliminate any trace of me, makes me sad. I've become emotionally dependent on him, feeling like he's the only one who truly understands me... Intellectually, I know all sorts of things to the contrary of all of this, but there's this desperate part of me that needs to exist. Over the past 18 months, I've lost weight, can't focus on work, home, family - it's consuming me... Not so much the affair, as much as what to do with my marriage. I supoose I could make that easier if I'd just be honest with my husband. Although part of me believes he'd still want to work it out, I can't be sure and even if he did, I know he'd be hurt so badly - and yes, that would hurt me too. I've reasons other than the affair to substantiate divorce, so I feel like I should just focus on those with him - spare the animocity and pain - mainly for the sake of the kids (yes me too) but when he's angry with me, he's hard on the kids... his boundaries are not healthy about what I think he'd share with them - as children. We've been through counseling, gone to seminars etc on improving your marriage, etc. I think I gave up just before my energies went elsewhere. I'm tired of trying to be someone I'm not so that he's happy and I don't want him to change for me either. I'm afraid for the kids emotional health and well being. I'm afraid about all the complexities of separating assets and my future financial security. There's much more to all this as I'm sure most of you already know... just needed to throw out a line, any thoughts other that how much of a {Mod Edit} I am.