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Question for metaphysical followers ...

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Ive been thinking about this for a while..


If our lives are predestined to a certain extend ie. the relationships that we choose etc, then is there a place for the power of your thoughts?


In other words if I am predestined to have a soul contract with a man around the age of 30, can my intentional thoughts of wanting someone in my life bring that soul contract closer in time ( I am now 27)?


I know that the law of attraction says that we create our own lives but then where does destiny come into things?



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Thus is the dilemma of believers of determinism or fatalism. It challenges the inherent existence of free will. If fatalism is true then what you do really has no power, because it was predetermined anyway.


I think if you believe you are predestined to MEET someone, then it's inconsistent that any event in your life is or was up to you.

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I don't think specific events in our lives are pre-destined. I do believe that there are broader lessons we are here to learn, though, and we will encounter situations where we have the opportunity to learn those lessons. Those lessons are going to vary from person to person as we are all at different points in our evolution/growth. Part of the challenge in this lifetime on the physical plane is to figure our what those lessons may be for you.


Note that I said "opportunity to learn." That means we also have the option to NOT learn a thing if we choose not to.


I've been keeping a journal since I was 12, so it's a little easier for me to look back and see that there really has been a sort of underlying theme to the majority of events in my life. Since it's all written down and I don't have to rely on a selective/spotty memory about past events, those broader and repeating themes are a little easier to spot.


It's my belief that each of us came to the physical plane at this particular time and choosing what broader lessons we would work on in this go-round. We forget all this the instant we're born. Part of the journey here is to figure it all out again.


For me anyway, I found that my life flows a lot more smoothly when I keep the overall theme of my life in mind, and filter new experiences through that accordingly. If I try to go in some contrary direction, I find my path blocked more often than not. However, if I am brutally honest with myself, those blocked paths I think I want to take would end up taking me someplace that's not really "me" anyway. Other than learning "who I am not," there really wouldn't be much reason to go there.


Not that I expect this to make any sense to anyone but myself...but there's my .02

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Shes2smart- thanks for the reply- I understand what you are saying


I believe that we have soul contracts with different individuals in our life that allow us to learn or not learn specific lessons. And so I believe that the people that we have in our lives are predestined according to the life lessons that we have chosen before we were incarnated.


So do you think that the timing that we have these relationships is predestined or can we, through the power of thought, bring these events closer?


If I analyse my life all my relationships have been predestined and for very good reasons too and despite all the odds these relationships play themselves out. So I do believe that we choose the souls that we interact with because of the various gifts of 'learning' that they potentially offer.


So because I believe in this does that mean that the power of thought does not exist? Or does desting and the power of thought and destiny coexist- if so what is the relationship??

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Well, what would be the point of encountering one of those souls before you are ready to learn what they are here to teach you? Since we are both teacher and student in this lifetime, what would be the point of you appearing to a student before they had all the prerequisites for what you needed to teach them?


For the sake of discussion, let's assume that one of my pre-destined relationships is with my husband. Had I met him at any point before I did, there is no way I would've been ready to create the kind of relationship we have.


Mind you, I had been consciously and actively working on defining my ideal relationship and refining that definition starting in the early 90's. I did not meet my husband until 2001. If I had met him before that point, I simply would not have been ready to be in this relationship. From what I know about his history, he wouldn't have been ready either.


I believe timing is a huge factor in things. If you're not ready for the lesson, the teacher is not going to appear because there is no point for them to be there yet. This is where the power of your own creative thought process comes in -- getting yourself ready for the next set of lessons.


I could've spent the time between the early 90's and 2001 farting around, getting involved in essentially the same relationship with different people over and over and not learning a single thing, (And don't we all know someone who keeps dating the same kind of person over and over and over and wondering why it never works out? ), actively avoiding working on myself or stubbornly clinging to dysfunctional ways of relating to others. Or, I could learn from every relationship I had along the way and learn to do things differently, think about things differently, and take responsibility for the role I played in creating each of those previous relationships.


There is a saying that goes, "When the student is ready, the teacher appears." I have always found this to be true. My job, if I choose to do the work, is to get myself ready and to be open to the appearance of that teacher no matter what form s/he/it may take. Along with human teachers, I've had horses and cats and random books teach me just what I needed to learn at the time I needed to learn it. So teachers can take just about any form...IF we are open to them.


I also believe there's no such thing as "coincidence." When I notice things falling into place in a fortuitious way, I see those as road signs that tell me I'm going in a way that's in line with the lessons I am ready to work on.

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wow- great response. So basically what you are saying is that our relationships may be predestined but the timimg is not. Rather that the relationships will come when the timing is right ( ie when we are ready to learn).Very insightful!!


So if this is so then where does the law of attraction feature?


We attract what we focus on. In the area of relationships (not just romantic ones, but all kinds of relationships), we also tend to attract who we are.


If we are a dysfunctional mess, then we tend to attract other people who are less than healthy and repel those who are healthy. It is in our own best interest (as well as the greater good) to work on ourselves and our own wholeness. It gives us a better shot at attracting relationships to our lives that will be mutually beneficial and positive. Becoming whole, sane, balanced and healthy individuals also benefits the Universe in the larger sense as well because those kinds of people are in a better position/more likely to contribute more and do the right things for the right reasons.


I learned about the most about commitment from the cheater I was involved with. I learned the most about giving someone enough space to walk their own path (even if their choices lead to destruction) from the alcoholic I was involved with. Both were lessons I needed before I could be in the relationship I am now. While I always found these less-than-ideal relationships disappointing when I compared them with the picture of the ideal relationship I had in my head, the things I took away from those relationships were crucial to being able to make that picture in my head a reality. Given that I'm stubborn and can be the kind of person who has to touch the stove myself to find out if it's really hot, some of the lessons may have seemed a bit harsh to an outside observer....but it was the most expedient way for me to learn them in such a way that they'd stick with me.


So is it just "coincidence" or luck or good timing that I'm where I am now? Maybe. But if I look a little closer, I can see that I set out on the road to get here well over 10 years ago. (Using the power of my own creative thought) Every lesson learned along the way provided a piece of the puzzle and also a reinforcement of the belief that I really wanted to go this way.


Then of course, there was the time I conducted a job search without ever sending out a single resume or going on an interview. Just kept working with the affirmation, "I am working in my right and perfect job." About 2 months later, I got a call out of the blue from a guy I used to work for asking me to come work for him again at a different (better) company than where I worked for him before.


Here's another one. Also in the early 90's, I took stock of where I was financially and it scared me into learning about money management, saving and getting responsible in that area. All good things that have served me well. However, looking back at my journal at that time, I noticed I was constantly writing the phrase, "If I could just get someone else to cover my basic living expenses for one year, I could completely eliminate this debt." I remember thinking about that a lot. If, somehow, I could get the basic rent/food/utilities paid some other way for a year....


I didn't think much of it at the time when I moved in with the cheater in the late 90's (I didn't know he was a cheater at that point) and he refused to take money for rent or utilities. He was 18 years older than me, owned his own home, and from a different generation that believed the man was the provider, period. All I paid for when I was living with him was my car, car insurance, and any gifts I bought for him. So, I paid off my student loan. I paid off my credit cards. I paid off my car. I had zero debt and had managed to save a chunk of money that wasn't tagged for retirement.


Then I caught him cheating and moved out. It was about a year after I moved in.


When I was putting my things away and getting settled into my new apartment after I left him, I happened accross my old journals. Happened to be reading the ones from the time period where I was just starting to get my financial stuff together. That's when I noticed how often I was writing the phrase, "If I could just get someone else to cover my basic living expenses for one year, I could completely eliminate this debt."


Holy %$#*. That was EXACTLY what happened, wasn't it?

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thanks for that- it has given me a bit of clarity. Understanding why thing happen makes life so much easier to deal with!


Your insight is greatly appreciated. So if I keep telling myself that I will meet the right guy does that mean that by the power of my thought I can bring the predestined relationship closer in time? Or does it depend on wether Im ready or not?

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sorry to interrupt, but I was reading this and just wanted to say what an awesome discussion! Shes2smart, your insight into life is awesome!!


To butterfly cloud. Not to detract from what shes2smart is saying (her advice will be way better than mine), but I love this topic and I wanted to add a comment....

i think that the event of meeting someone is not so much an event to aspire to, or try to make happen quickly by your thoughts as it is just another development in your own life journey. So you still have to jump over certain hurdles to be ready.

An analogy might be, say a 15 year old kid wanting to buy a house. As much as she wants to find and buy that perfect house as soon as possible, she may not be ready - there are experiences, information, maturity, means she is lacking, although she may not necessarily be aware of these. So instead of just thinking about the house, the best way to set off on the path towards the house (among lots of other things she`s going to get out of life), is to listen to her intuition or gut feeling every current moment. Intuition alerts you to what you are needing the most right now, and provides, part by part, the best directions (albeit very often illogical) to get you where you need to go in life to fulfill all your dreams. A saying i once heard, which I quite like is: There is no such thing as coincidence. Every person has a purpose in life. Just follow your Intuition and the universe will provide you with exactly what you need exactly when you need it.

So rather than think about meeting that someone, I reckon maybe it`s better to focus your energy on what you need to do for yourself now. And only you can do this by paying attention to yourself, treat each moment as `now` and act according to your intuition, they string themselves into a chain of time, opportunities to learn, and before you know it, you`ll be there!

lots love

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Actually, turqoise, I think you're getting at a similar point with your example of a 15-year-old wanting to buy a house.


One of the books I read waaay back there in the early 90's about attracting one's right and perfect partner was a book called "Finding Each Other" by Don & Mary Kelly. One of the exercises they had was to make a list of the qualities you wanted your (future) mate to have.


I did the list exercise. Multiple times. And while it was helpful in some respects, the lesson it eventually taught me was that it's not my job to manage the details.


Lemme explain.


So I made list #1...met a guy who fit list #1...and..oops! Forgot to specify that he should also like me.


List #2....forgot to specify that he should be heterosexual. Ooops.


List #3...forgot to specify he should be geographically desirable (not halfway accross the state with no intent on either part to move). Oops again.


You get the idea.


While you can use metaphysical principles to shape your life and experiences, the final word always...but always...belongs to God/Universe/Spirit/The Force/whatever you call that thing that is greater than ourselves. And that entity has a wicked sense of humor. Like sending me a "Mr. Perfect" who had so much in common with me...we liked the same music, the same activities, oh...and we also both liked men.


I found things went a little more smoothly when I focused more on where I wanted to go rather than how I wanted to get there or who I wanted to get there with.


Another non-romantic relationship example (because I use these principles in every area of my life...not just the "find a mate" part).


I like horses and I used to go to a harness racing track every saturday night. I'd sit in the grandstand and watch the races, make a few wagers, and write in my journal between races. After a while, I began to wonder how one would get involved in owning a race horse. I watched the people who would get the horses ready to race and collect them after the race was over and wondered how I could get on the other side of the fence and walls that separated those folks from the spectators.


So, I started working with affirmations. I set a 5 year time frame to own my own horse. At this point I knew no one involved in the business. Shortly after I started using this affirmation, the company I worked for had reason to do some business with the racetrack. While we were working on that project, I met the track's marketing director....who happened to be married to one of the horse trainers/drivers. I owned my first horse with them about a year and a half later.


So, I had a final destination in mind (I want to own and race a horse), but no idea how to get there. When "coincidences" fell into my lap that could help get me to that destination, I follwed them (like road signs) and followed up on them.


In applying metaphysical principles to day-to-day life I've found that working with them in the financial area of my life has been the easiest thing for me. Creating enough money to cover my bills and be materially comfortable is second nature to me now...I don't even have to consciously think about it anymore because the affirmation "Money is there when I need it" is so ingrained into my consciousness.


Applying metaphysical principles to the area of romantic relationships has been the most challenging area for me. I suspect that might be because you're dealing with more than one person and all the attendant things that come with that. If you're trying to create wealth, you need only work on your own beliefs and barriers. You don't have to wait for someone else to work on their stuff and be ready...basically whenever you become open to receiving wealth, the floodgates open. But with a relationship...both potential partners need to be ready and open to it. This is where the timing thing comes in.


I don't know if that holds true for everyone (finances=easy relationships=challenging), though. Probably not as we're all here to learn different things. Apparently learning through financial hardship isn't on my agenda in this lifetime. And, so far, neither is learning to be filthy rich by winning the lottery, either......although I am working on that.


Back to the "figuring out the details" stuff for a minute...if I had stayed stuck on that list exercise from the "Finding Each Other Book," I never would've agreed to date my husband. He did not come in the package I thought I wanted (he's 11 years younger and had just divorced when I met him), but he was exactly who I needed to be with.

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We do not have free will at all in the big scheme of things. Biology, economy, and society constrain us ultimately. There is nothing metaphysical about it other than the fact that you will fall in love because of your biology and their biology and both of you are destined to die and rot beside each other someday, or she is destined to divorce you because you are poor and were always poor to begin with, and he is destined to be president because he knows people within inner circles. If biology, economy, and society imprison us, and one wants to have free will within his life, and if the metaphysical is separate from the physical, then one can truly have free will and control without biology, economy, and society.

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Thanks for the response turquoise and shestoosmart- this discussion is really interesting. I understand what everybody is saying but what about this theory. What if the theory of destiny( soul contracts and predestined circumstance) and the law of attraction( power of thought and manifestation) actually contradict one another. Are we supposed to believe in one, both or is there a happy 'meduim between the two and if there is then what is that medium?

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It depends on how each individual chooses to look at things and how each individual chooses to interpret the events that occur in our lives.


I have discussed my belief system with folks who have a very different set of ideas about life than I do. They don't understand how I approach life or how I can look at things the way I do. Some have gone so far as to insist my view is very simple-minded and Pollyanna-ish.


On the surface, some of these ideas we have been discussing sound very simple. But that doesn't mean they're easy to grasp or easy to live when you put them into practice. As soon as I think I fully understand, I am met with a set of circumstances that requires me to come to a deeper understanding. It's a wonderful, ongoing challenge. And it can make people think you're a little...odd...during those times when all around you is crisis and chaos and you're calm, smiling, and affirming that it is for your highest good with complete conviction and inner peace. Now, there's a paradox in action for ya.


The bottom line for me has been this: Does my life work and do the beliefs that I hold support me as I travel on this journey? If the answer to that question is yes, then it's no matter to me that others hold a contrary opinion. They have every right to have their opinion. I have an equal right to ignore it.


We can choose to go through life thinking we are limited by any number of factors, subject to a series of random events that are completely out of our control, there is no purpose to it all and when we die that's it...or we can choose thoughts that affirm the good that is all around us, affirm the divine within ourselves and others, affirm that we co-create our reality with God/Spirit/Universe/The Force/Whatever you call it, and affirm that there is some sort of reason and purpose.


When I was younger...before I started learning about different ways to think and look at things...I held the first set of beliefs I described in that last paragraph. They are not the beliefs I have now. I know which set of beliefs have created a reality that allows me to dance through life rather than drag my sorry butt through another day.


That's a choice everyone has to make for themselves, though. All I know is my life works, makes sense, and I don't have the kinds of stresses, regrets, drama and problems that appear to plague other people I encounter.

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What if the theory of destiny( soul contracts and predestined circumstance) and the law of attraction( power of thought and manifestation) actually contradict one another.

I think the apparent contradiction arises when you assume that we have this thing called Time. If you think of there being no such thing as Time, but only this moment right now, then destiny and law of attraction become the same things don`t they?? Then, it`s easy, you just live each moment.


Actually, turqoise, I think you're getting at a similar point with your example of a 15-year-old wanting to buy a house.

heehe, thank you!


If you don`t mind me throwing a related question in too...?

I am struggling with life purpose right now. I honestly can`t figure out what I want to do, though I think I`ve had the courage to step away from something that I don`t want to do. Shestoosmart, you talked about focussing on something you want and the Universe helps you in your endeavour- well for me I can`t just choose something, it has to come from my heart or from my intuition, and I`m very worried that I`m never going to find somthing. Even financially, I think I have contradicting ideas about the kind of lifestyle I would aspire to and the kind that would make me really happy - I get the feeling htat this state of indecisiveness isn`t helping me....any advice???

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What path do you follow Butteflycloud? Do you have any beliefs of your own? I'm currently in my year and a day study period of Wicca. My own beliefs, which are very nature-based, is that there is no such thing as predestination. The gods set us on a path, but it is up to us to choose if we stay on it or not. Saying this, there may be no perfect soulmate for us to find. Then again, the power of the sould trancends anything we can imagine. I think that if there is a soul out there that is the mate to our own, then they will be drawn together, no matter how far apart they are. Those souls who are never able to find there match, simply because of time or distance can always find happiness with another, but when the start the path again, the attraction to that one soul will still be there.


My belief is that we don't have one turn on the wheel, that we keep coming back over and over again, each time becoming more perfect until we ourselves no longer need to walk the physical path. Once we are freed from it, then perhaps then we will know an eternity with that one special soul.....this is a question I can't really answer, but I'll keep looking for one...after all, looking for the answer is the real adventure!

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Locke2121- well the path that I follow goes something like this. Ill summarise although it is a far more inticate belief system.


I believe that we have several lives in order to develop our souls enough to move onto a higher lever or universe. How we do this is based on our souls reincarnating each lifetime and choosing different challenges each time.


So before we incarnate we sit down with a few masters and discuss what we would like to learn this particular lifetime,for example self acceptance. Once we have decised upon that the masters will then decide upon which souls will assist us with learning that trait. We all sit down and discuss who will fill what role and when( mother, father, children, etc). Once that is completed we choose certain archetypes( characteristics) that will assist us in learning that trait. Once all has been decided upon our soul is shattered into thousands of pieces and we only regain pieces of our spirit from each contracted soul once we have learnt that lesson that they have agreed to teach us.


Once we incarnate to earth our memoriy is erased and we no longer know what our life challenge is but are rather given the opportunity to learn from our soul contracts or not.


So I dont believe that people are in our lives by coincidence- there is no such thing as coincidence. Those people are in our lives as a gift from god- to allow us an opportunity to grow or not- the choice is ours. And no contrcat is good or bad- it just is, and so perfecrly so because they all teach us exactly what our soul wanted to learn from the start.


That is it in a nutshell- there is a lot more from there but what I have just said is teh beginning stages of what I believe.

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Sounds like a nice way to prepare for a new life! A bit confining though. If you plan your life out, where is the fun and adventure? My personal belief is that when we die, we are aware of the mistakes we've made and how we can fix them. Each time we come back, some sparkle of knowledge alerts us when we are about to make the same ol' mistakes. We can then, hopefully, make the changes in ourselves, and thus our souls, to grow as an indivdual. And when we die, our souls have grown stronger for it.

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To Turquoise


What I believe is that when you feel most lost in your life is when the universe is making the most changes in anticipation of revealing to you your life's purpose. So fear not- rest assured that your uneasyness is a sign that things are being reshaped on the universal front and that answeres are soon to follow.


Relax, not everytone needs to know their life's purpose immediately. It will come when the time is right.Just know that whatever is happening in your life right now, or not happening, is divinly perfect- so sit back and relax knowing that things are coming your way!

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hi everyone i have read a lot about this new age belief thing and i think it makes more sense then a lot of other religions. i was wondering where it all started from... i know that some of the ideas came for eastern cultures but what about everything else...did they just learn all of this from talking to dead people in out of body experiences or did a bunch of crazies get together and make it all up?


thanks in advance



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Hi Oddnet


Well where this all originated I cannot quite say but it wasnt through people having outer body experiences. This belief system can be traced back to as far as the greeks BC. Now days this belief system is reinforced and grown from people that we call 'masters'. These masters are souls that have developed so much that they come to earth not to learn about things( like you and I) but to teach us about how the universe works and how we can progress our souls to other universal levels.


The theory of Karma is an ancient belief system too so basically what I believe in today has been build up over thousands of years.

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