big problem, need input

[disgruntledbaker]

long story short, girl i love left me after 3 great years and one rough year. we were living in an apartment together and she is still there. it's been 4 weeks since either of us has attempted to make any contact and 6 weeks since i officially left there. since then, shes pretty much erased me from every part of her life possible (all posts on myspace, any shred of evidence i existed from her aim buddy info, and from what im told she has removed every momento and gift i ever gave her from the apartment). shes continuing to live there until the lease is up (another 7 months).

 

my initial thoughts were: i would do this NC thing, regain composure and dignity, etcetra and so forth, and then we might run into each other in a few months and give it another go. because of that, i left most of my stuff at the apartment for her to use (appliances, dishes, silverware, tv, vcr, couches, so on...) and im still paying half the rent (a rather big chunk of change). if i stopped paying half the rent, she wouldn't be able to afford to live there. shes already borrowing lots of money from her parents just to squeek by...

 

the kicker: i was told she needs "time" and "space" to "find herself again". i had suspicions that it was all bogus and despite her throwing herself at me for 3 years straight telling me point blank "i want a family, and i want you to be my husband and father of my children", i felt this was just her gentle (if there is such a thing) way of getting out of the relationship. recently i've discovered that shes loving the single life, going out as often as she can and can't wait to meet guys and start dating. and she hasn't allowed me to take our dog home with me to spend time with him, so shes monopolizing my stuff, my apartment, my pet, and my heart...

 

the whole me paying half the rent thing was half a favor to her, my way of protecting and taking care of her from afar... and it was half a continued connection to her even though we were having no verbal or written contact. but every day it seems more and more like im being taken advantage of. i keep thinking shes gonna snap out of whatever this is and be the girl she used to be... but its getting to the point where im just about ready to face reality and stop letting her "live it up" on my tab.

 

do i stop paying for the apartment? do i demand for some time with my dog? (yeah, thats actually a really high priority for me) do i take my stuff back even though im not missing it because i don't need it now? or do i keep on truckin' through, always thinking in the back of my head that shes got some guy back at our apartment, on our bed, watching my tv and playing with my dog...

 

keep in mind, and this should be obvious because of where im posting the thread, but a reconciliation is something i would like... shes being very selfish i know. and believe me, im growing angrier about that. i can't just blow that off or ignore it, but what soured the relationship was mostly an issue of timing... neither of us were in the same "place" at the same time. but any of the thousands of times we were connecting i can't remember ever being more happy with my life...

 

agony isn't descriptive enough of a word... this is a lousy situation.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Whose name is on the lease?

[disgruntledbaker]

hers and my own.

 

which has been "official" excuse for continuing to pay every time someone with my best interests in mind tells me to stop paying.

 

we've had offers for others to come in and room with her and take over my half of the lease, but she said she'd rather be alone (selfish again), and i didn't argue the point because it meant that imaginary connection to her would persist...

[CarnelianButterfly]

Are you willing to let the break of lease go on your credit? Have you looked at what it entails to break a lease with your landlord.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I'm asking because I would not pay for a place I wasn't living. And I'd demand my stuff back as well. Did you purchase the dog? If you did then its your property and she's with holding it illegally.

[Shaker]

DG,

 

I wish I had some great advice for you. This is a sticky situation. What sort of agreement did you make with her about the rent, however informal? Are you on the lease? If you haven't made any promises to her about the money, and there's nothing legally binding, I think you ought to give her notice that she's going to have to pay her own way.

 

I also think you should get your stuff back. In a way, I think perhaps you didn't take it the first time because not only were you helping her, but you had some kind of presense in her space. I say this because you're upset by her attitude toward the sentimental property she's buried. I'm concerned that you might end up without your stuff altogether, and if that's okay with you, let it go. If not, you have a couple of choices. Leave it with her until she moves, or set up a time to go get it (when she's not around). Either way, if you haven't communicated you want it back, you need to do so at some point.

 

The dog is also tricky. Who owns it? Can she afford the vet bills, the food costs, etc.? Does she have the time to invest in caring for it? If not, maybe she'll part with it. You seem to be suggesting 'joint custody.' I think that's a big mistake.

[Shaker]

Okay. So you're on the lease. I can say from my own experience of being dumped and on the lease that I went through the landlord (not my ex) to broker a deal. Because of the circumstances, the landlord ripped up the lease and got my ex to sign a new one. Talk to your landlord about the situation, and see if it's possible for YOU to sublease your 1/2 of the space. If so, tell your ex it's her choice: 1. She can move out and also sublease.

2. She can take a roommate.

3. She can live alone and foot the bill.

[disgruntledbaker]

the landlords have this all sort of worked out to a factory-line kind of operation. its a college town, and they deal with people dropping leases left and right, and they've sort of adopted a no-negotiations policy. i wouldn't be able to get myself off the lease unless someone else took it up.

 

my ex stated that she would find another place and that we might sublet the entire place. informally when we discussed it over a month ago, i told her she shouldn't bother with that (she is pretty badly messed up financially, and this situation we have now with me paying half is as close to "good" as shes likely to get). so thats the unwritten agreement right now. also, we did discuss having someone else move in in my place and she pretty much veto-ed that idea.

 

the dog is tricky too. shes a veterinary technician, and the pup was a rescue of ours that she took in at work. on paper, it was easier for us both to make my ex the owner. also, on paper she's paid for all the vaccinations and his surgery. however, she has an agreement with the clinic that she has as long as she works there to pay off those bills, and that means so far she hasn't paid a penny. she also gets food for free. i've been paying the additional charge on our rent for the pup ($30/month). she works day times 5 days a week, and that entire time the pup is kenneled. when she gets home he's allowed out for a few hours, then its bed time. if i had the dog, he'd have someone in the home for him at all times of day. and technically, im the only one thats put a cent down for him, even though i don't legally have any right to him.

 

my ex's family is still close to mine (her mother is an employee of my father, and i have frequent contact with her brother and father). putting aside my strong desire to preserve the possibility of a reconciliation one day, and also my feelings of obligation to continue to care for her as much as possible, i think doing anything harsh or possibly construed as nasty would damage several other relationships and make life tough for both our families instead of just myself and her.

 

its rediculously complicated.

[Shaker]

What if you get to stay in the apartment, find a roommate, and ask her to move? Since so much of her family is in the area, she has options....and blood-related movers!

 

Would that work? (even as a card to play to force her to choose between living with a roommate or moving out herself?)

 

(You won't get very far with the dog issue, unfortunately.)

[Ellie2006]

Hi there,

Sorry to hear of your circumstances

 

As the others have already suggested, I do think it might be best for YOU (not so much, perhaps, for the reconciliation) to:

 

a) discuss the situation w/ your landlord

b) give your ex a reasonable amount of time (one month?) to find a new roommate if she wants to stay

 

OR

 

c) Both renters break the lease and share the penalties re: lease break together

 

Unfortunately, she mas made it clear that you aren't coming back to the apartment (by erasing traces of you from her life) and in my humble opinion, I do not see the point of getting hit both emotionally and financially from the breakup.

 

What do you think?

 

Re: your stuff: even though you may not have use (or space) for it right now, I do think it might be better to pack them up and keep them in storage, if necessary. Since you guys lived together, if you leave it there now and demonstrate no attempt to retrieve these items, you might have a difficult time getting them back at a later point, when you DO have a need for your stuff.

 

 

Re: dog: DO demand that you would like to spend x amount of time w/ YOUR pet, on a weekly/monthly basis.

 

Please do NOT allow her to monopolize ownership over your "your stuff, your apartment, you pet, and you heart" and DO consider taking the power back from her over your heart and your stuff and your pet.

 

 

 

One caveat: if YOU do stop payment on the apartment, ask for your stuff back, and demand time w/ your pet, she may resent you and this may hinder your attempts for a reconciliation.

 

STILL, please do keep in mind, as you describe in your original post, it does not appear to me that reconciliation is on her agenda (I am very sorry if this sounds harsh.)

 

I may be way off (and if I am, please excuse me) BUT the length she went to delete your presense from her life speaks volumes, IMHO.

 

Please do re-claim ownership over your life and move on; please do not let details -- rent payment, furniture ownership, pet custody (as important as these details are) -- get in the way of YOU seeing the bigger picture: YOUR RETRIEVAL of your emotional stability via a healed heart ...

 

My two cents.

 

 

Take care and stay strong!

 

Sending best wishes your way,

Ellie 1:

[Ellie2006]

Sorry I see I posted too late and did not see your last post ...

Please do not do something that's bound to hurt you simply bc it's convenient for her: DO consider breaking the lease OR subletting the whole apartment

 

And just bc she's a vet, this does not make you any less of a loving owner: so please DO demand equal ownership of your pet.

 

Good luck!

[Wandering_Sword]

The more complicated the situation the more a "Gordian Knot" solution needs to be applied.

For those that don't know what a Gordian Knot is here's a quick run down:

 

King Midas of Phrygia tied a ox-cart to a pole with an intricate knot of cornel bark at Gordium. It was prophesized that the one to untie the knot would be the King of Asia (Asia Minor in today's geography). So one day Alexander the Great comes along and tries to unravel the knot. He gets frustrated, pulls out his sword and chops the knot in half. So technically he "solves" the knot and goes on to conquer Asia fulfilling the prophecy. This is a bold move.

 

What you need to do is take the bold move (I would personally like to think things out carefully but in your rather unique situation I'll just go gangbusters. I hope the other forum members don't blast me for this) of stopping the payments for everything that is tied to her. I'm not saying just leave her high and dry. For example, the lease; as few members of the forum have stated giving her a month to sort herself out in regards to the rent after the month is up stop your contributions. The dog (since you care for it like a child) can be assumed to be some sort of "child support" payment not much you can do there if you care for your dog. The relationships that are linked to you and your ex (her mother working for your father) should no longer be part of your concern (harsh, but you have to survive this). These people are adults they can work things out for themselves in light of the fallout from your relationship.

You are above and beyond considerate and generous and from what I'm reading from your posts, she's riding you for all its worth while she lives beyond her means. Stop the hemorrhaging of your finances and more importantly your soul. You've poured out everything you've got, now its time to take care of number one: yourself.

[wintersolstice]

In my opinion... it seems like you view her as a child and want to control her....

 

You said she was "barely squeaking by" with her parents helping to suplement her rent? This is not how you talk about an adult you respect...

 

Also you said you paid the rent as a "favor to her" it sounds like you paid the rent as a "favor" to yourself so you could keep tabs on her and feel like you controled her and still be connected to her/control her through money (while you guys are broken up.)

 

I don't mean to be harsh. It sounds like you're in denial.

 

Also you seem pissed she is taking this time to "find herself" as time to actually "find herself."

 

Whether or not you pay her rent; what did you expect her to do sit at home dreaming about you????

 

If I were you I would STOP PAYING THE RENT, figure out some fair compromise with the dog, and get my stuff out of there...

 

Though I would be very careful to walk the fine line between being generous to someone you love and being bitter and spiteful to someone who hurt you, this is an opportunity for you to show her what a good person you are (by not being spiteful) and that you are not some desperate push-over (by not paying her rent.)

 

Also in this time you can give her a chance to find herself and possibly realize she wants you... if you act like a psycho over your stuff and the dog or act like a pathetic push over she won't want you back....

[wintersolstice]

Also about the rent she is taking advantage of you. Unless you make a lot of money (and noone makes that much money) she is sucker-ing you and she knows it, by having you pay the rent... and she's doing it because she knows she can get away with it... I would tell her ASAP that I'm not paying next months rent... You should maybe get it in writing and talk to the landlord if you don't trust her, plus there are laws that after a certain period its her responsibility to find a new roommate... Maybe you should take the money you would be giving to her for rent and date some girls in a really flashy way and make sure she finds out about it?

 

If a guy I knew got dumped and was paying his gf's rent I would think he was a sucker... she won't appreciate it she'll only view you as someone she can exploit.....

 

If you don't want to be nasty about it just tell her bluntly it's about money and you cannot afford to pay two rents... very simple... you're being stupid if you think paying for her is going to make her closer to you...

[disgruntledbaker]

alright, i get it. time to get out of the situation...

 

i'd still like to be as kind as possible when doing this. the bridge may have already burned, but if theres anything left of it i don't want to be the one to tear it down completely...

 

heres my first draft of an email. i'm falling in love with NC and i hate breaking it for any reason at all, and the most comfortable way for me to actually break it is in an email. let me know what you think:

 

 

 

 

sorry i didn't have time to call you about this, i've been really busy.

 

i can't afford to keep paying rent anymore. i'd like to find someone to sublet my half to if you aren't able to find someplace to move to by march.

 

i'll be up some time this month to patch walls and get all the things i need. whatever i don't need, you can keep. i won't need stuff like the microwave, couch, living room tv, shelves, kitchen table and chairs and stuff like that too, whatever you don't move to your next apartment can just get chucked.

 

also, i'd like to spend time with gibson (the puppy). when i do come up, i want to bring him back home with me and spend a few weeks with him.

 

hope you're doing well!

 

 

 

i just can't help but feel like this is the best way to sabotage any chance of reconciliation... but i guess thats not the issue.

[Ellie2006]

Hi again Baker,

I did not mean to downplay the importance of your hopes for a reconciliation.

 

Sorry if I am overstepping my bounds by pointing this out but I thought that it might be better if you concentrated on healing yourself first and then address later the reconciliation issue??

 

Since I *am* speculating and may be way off base here, please do take what I say with a grain of salt: your growing frustration w/ the rent/pet visitation indicated that these were matters that need to be addressed sooner rather than later. Based on your description of your ex's actions post-breakup, I wasn't quite certain that leaving these issues (re: rent payment & pet visitation) unaddressed would heighten your chances of reconcilation. This is why I felt that it's probably better if you got this matters resolved sooner, regardless of how it may affect the prospect of reconciliation. Again, though, this is just my two cents.

 

 

Take care and good luck!

[CarnelianButterfly]

Good letter, states all you need to say. I think you need to worry about you, but you are being considerate.

 

Its sad to say, but this is the business of breaking up. For all the emotional wreckage that is involved the financial and property stuff do need to be dealt with.

[Wandering_Sword]

Good email. Says everything that needs to be said, now fire the thing off and start getting your life back in order. But beware actions like these may very well drive her back into your arms, and given your state you'll take her back, but the "problems" of your relationship will still be there. Truly, if any, this is the time to go NC once the air has cleared in regards to the dog, apartment and furniture. Good luck and keep posting, the forum members and myself will try our best to assist you.

[disgruntledbaker]

ellie

 

don't worry about offending me, i've got tough skin (when it comes to everyone but the ex).

 

wandering sword and wintersolstice

 

theres something about advice thats logic-laden and devoid of romanticism that is all together terrifying and absolutely right. you're gonna meet some resistance with advice like yours, but i don't think that makes you wrong. first thing my heart does is tell me to ignore you because, honestly, my heart is retarded.

 

i place a lot of importance in the chance of reconciliation, and i get the general impression that its sort of frowned upon right now... im not a person that gives up on anything very easily, so that figures into it im sure. but i do realize that the ex stopped being the person i fell in love with the moment she stopped trying. i guess i just won't let it enter my mind that this is someone i could never be close to again someday.

 

im gonna probably agonize over sending this email for another two days, rewrite it a dozen times, and finally give in. until then, any additional thoughts on the matter are welcome

[Ellie2006]

Hi yet again,

 

Sorry for the multiple posts.

Re: email: As Carnelian Butterfly points out above, I do think you're being very considerate in your email.

 

My initial response was perhaps that it could be more "business-like" (i.e. delete the words of apology and the reason why you won't be paying half the rent any longer etc.) BUT since reconciliation is one of your priorities right now, I do think your letter is apt as it is now.

 

Hope you don't agonize over it *too* much ...

 

Sending best wishes your way,

Ellie

[Shaker]

DG,

 

I think your email will do the job.

 

I'm with ellie on this one: You could start the email with "i'd like to find..." and ditch the apologetic and defensive bits.

 

Also, I'd drop the exclamation point from the end. It seems....ironic given the nature of the rest of the beast.

[wintersolstice]

also i think you should go with your heart. If your heart tells you to pay her rent maybe thats what you should do... you know the situation (and the girl) better than any of us... I think its important to "keep your cool" and to keep the lines of communication going and above all not look deseparate.

[disgruntledbaker]

oh winter, you all just about had me convinced i should send the stinkin' email and then you planted a seed of hope in the clarity of my heart's eye...

 

im still working out the wording, but its a big deal to me that i have to do something about. im sort of grossed out at the idea of paying for her to live there while she sees other guys. like im covering half the tab for her to become intimate with someone else. it's gotta be dealt with.

 

besides, she can't really understand that she misses me until she stops reaping the benefits of... me... i suppose.

 

sigh... back to agonizing over the wording and the "should i or shouldn't i" for another two days...

[disgruntledbaker]

alright, here's the near-final draft

 

 

 

hey

 

i'm gonna find someone to sublet to if you aren't able to find someplace to move to by march.

 

i'll be up some time next month to patch walls and get all the things i need. whatever i don't take you can keep. whatever you don't move to your next apartment can just get chucked or returned to me later.

 

also, i'd like to spend time with gibson. when i do come up, i want to bring him back home with me and spend a few weeks with him.

 

hope you're doing well

 

 

 

 

had a chat with superdave and he was all for the letter. he also said to either give up the dog or demand it. if i had to choose, i think i'd let her have it. that would hurt her immensly to take our baby pup (not that it isn't hurting me to not have it) but i feel like that would be crossing the line. i guess im not really expecting her to approve of the idea of taking him with me for a few weeks, so i guess that day will be my last time to visit the pup.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

This is obviously a difficult time for you, especially when partners were living together and have lots of things to untangle...

 

But really, she is some ways is acting a lot like a child and expecting to have her needs taken care of first and by everyone... she is an adult, and as such must learn to be financially responsible and not depend on parents and ex-boyfriend's etc. to pick up the tab...

 

from what you've said, i really don't think that she is 'appreciating' you continuing to subsidize her, she is just doing her thing and enjoying her freedom without thinking about anybody else... she has the apt., all your stuff, the dog, and you paying for it all (or mostly you and her parents paying for it all)... yet she wants to have no responsbilities to you, seeing you, being with you, or even letting you visit the dog.

 

the fact that she is keeping the dog away from you makes me think she does intend to end your relationship (and already has) and is intends to keep the dog and just go on her merry way as a single person dating other people.

 

a *nice* person would want you to see a dog you are attached to, and would *not* put you into financially supporting her after a breakup, especially when she can share a place with some roommate or move out, but she is instead choosing to be selfish and wants her own place, on YOUR nickel... you were not married, and she is the one who wants her freedom, so let her take the consequences of that freedom... she gets it, but she doesn't get continued financial support while she plays around.

 

unfortunately re: the dog, legally dogs are considered property, not children, so rarely is their legal 'joint' custody of the dog... and if she has been listed on vet records etc. as the owner, you are likely to lose rights to the dog, and would have to either sue or steal the dog to get access, neither of which is a good path... so you might have to say goodbye to this puppy, and find another puppy to love of your own (and they are all loveable, sad to say goodbye to the other one, but 10 minutes with a new puppy of your choosing and you will fall in love with it).

 

so spending time with the dog may only make it harder to let go, since you have already been away for 6 weeks... i'd say be generous about the dog issue since that could lead to major conflict and is a legal gray area that would require a lawsuit to enforce, but be very firm on the apt. issue...

 

get all the stuff that you want out of there, and insist she get a roommate (with the roommate's name on the lease), and pull out on March 1st. She needs to be an adult and be responsible, and if she does default on paying the rent, let the landlord to go eviction, and you can always settle with the landlord AFTER she is out if you want to preserve your credit... but if she or the landlord knows you will settle earlier, neither will have the incentive to resolve this and find another roommate for her... she needs to learn she is an adult, with adult responsbilities, and consequences for her decisions (i.e., pushing you out, refusing to get a roommate, expecting you to continue to pay).

 

good luck, don't be a meal ticket, and question why you even want to reconcile with someone who would sponge off of you and deprive you of visits to a dog. if you stayed together and married, she would really try to soak you for alimony, child support, child custoday etc. if that marriage broke up down the road, and do you even what to be with a person who behaves this way?