What am I missing?

[sharper4]

So, I've been dating a girl that's still married. She separated more than a year ago and has been living in "their" house alone with their daughter for the entire year. He has also moved on but they have both avoided the actual divorce because it financially benefited them both to leave everything together. The house, car, bank, etc are all still in both of their names. Its weird, but they are in fact over and nothing is going on between the two of them.

 

Recently, as the divorce is finally getting formal, she asked for roughly $600 in child support and for him to pay half the house payment until it sells. He absolutely refuses, saying that he believes his daughter only needs roughly $500 to live on. In our state, the father's child support is automatic based on his income, so in the end he'll end up paying the $600-ish either way unless she willing informs the judge that she doesn't wish to seek the full amount owed.

 

Here's where I'm confused. He has offered to pay $500 / month for child support and help her out with an additional $250 for her car payment (and continue to pay half the mortgage payment until the house sells). In the end, he's financially worse off by $150 / month for the next 5 years.

 

Given his resistance to pay the initial $600 figure, I'm wondering why he's being so generous. There absolutely must be a plus-side of this for him in the end or in the long run or he wouldn't offer to pay more than he's required.

 

Obviously, she's considering this. It benefits her if she's gaining $750 / month instead of $600.

 

What am I missing? Her and I are getting pretty serious (been dating about 6 months) and I can see us moving in together after her house sells (its not yet on the market). I don't want her to be financially dependent on her ex though. Is that me being selfish? I don't want to find that she can't help me with our living expenses because the ex stopped paying her that $250 that he promised her... even if its written up in some contract. I don't really think he'd do that, given that his daughter ends up suffering in the end if I don't pick up the slack financially, but is it a risk worth taking?

 

Should I just let her do her own thing and stay out of it all together? She's a big girl but she's never been "on her own". They were high school sweethearts and she's always relied on him. She still believes that if at the end of the month, in either scenario, she needed money, that he would give it to her (because it would benefit his daughter). Its also important to note - in our state she can only go back and ask for the child support figure to be re-calculated once every three years.

 

At the end of the day, I only want the best for her and her daughter. What are your thoughts?

[Batya33]

If you want the best for her and her daughter you will not move in with her or get involved with the daughter until a year after the actual divorce is final - it doesn't matter that they stayed together just for financial reasons - as you can see, finances get very emotional and psychological, etc. She needs to be single for at least a year - i.e. legally divorced - and her daughter has been through so much chaos and deserves quality and ample time with her mother without a man in her home who is not married to her mother.

 

Kids don't "get dating" they "get attached" - at this point, you are not engaged, you can't marry her because she is a married woman, and in my humble opinion the child deserves to live in a house with two parents who are married to each other given that she's been through so much chaos the last few years. And, her mom is probably going to find, once everything is signed that she needs time to herself and time with her daughter, let alone all the financial stress she will be going through.

 

If this is meant to last a lifetime then you have a lifetime to be together - and one year apart won't make a difference. Or, date her once in awhile but do not get involved with her daughter.

 

Good for you for wanting to do what is in the best interests of the child here.

[melrich]

To be honest I don't think it is fair for anyone to be making judgements about whether you should be moving in or not. You are two adults and I think as long as you are both considering all factors you guys are in the best position to make judgements about that.

 

Re. the finances. Stay completely out of it. I am advising you on this based on experience. Stay completely out of it.

[Batya33]

They are adults yes but there is a child involved who did nothing to deserve the chaos of her parents breaking up and who has to rely on these adults to act in her best interests. Once there is a child involved I think people are entitled to judge what is in the best interests of the child - which is what the OP asked about.

[sharper4]

Thanks much for the quick advice.

 

As for not getting involved - its a little late. Obviously if we've spoken about the potential to move-in we're extremely close. She spent nearly 8 months separated without men coming in and out of her daughter's life before I came in to the picture. And she's was very careful about introducing me too soon. If we were to move in, it wouldn't likely even be feasible for another 6 months due to the sale of the house (they haven't even had a real estate agent look at the house let alone anything else).

 

I do realize that the daughter needs to be the center of attn and her needs should come before any of ours. My question was more about insuring that my g/f comes out the best she can financially in the long run which will obviously in the end help her daughter out. Am I missing something from his offer?

 

I guess perhaps it doesn't matter. I'm just trying to help her but if the bottom line answer is that I need to stay out of it then that's probably the best thing for me to do. She can make her own decision and deal with the consequences herself. Not that she would, but then I'd know she couldn't come back on me if her decision wasn't the right one.

[Batya33]

I think you need to stay out of it and I reiterate that if you truly care about her daughter you will not move in with her until you are married or engaged with a firm wedding date in the very near future. Don't listen to me - check out Dr. Joy Browne - she has a web site and several books that concern this subject of dating separated or divorced people and what is best for the children in that situationn.

[sharper4]

I think you need to stay out of it and I reiterate that if you truly care about her daughter you will not move in with her until you are married or engaged with a firm wedding date in the very near future. Don't listen to me - check out Dr. Joy Browne - she has a web site and several books that concern this subject of dating separated or divorced people and what is best for the children in that situationn.

 

I appreciate your advice and will certainly take it in to consideration, but its too late to just say "stay out of it". Perhaps its easier given that you aren't emotionally involved, but my question was not tailored to us moving in together rather than if I should help when she asks for my advice regarding the divorce.

 

I will take a look at the info from Dr Joy Browne, but can we stay on topic please?

[Batya33]

It's not about emotional involvement and it has nothing to do with my not being emotionally invovled - it's about how you balance the best interests of your girlfriend and her daughter (which is what I thought you asked, but may have misunderstood) over your need to be emotionally attached and the inconveniences of taking a step back. I see financial decisions of this kind as inextricably intertwined with emotions which is why I answered the way I did. Since I see you don't want further input on that, that's fine.

 

I do not think you should have any involvement in the financial decisions - you are not her husband, fiancee, or the child's father - this is between her and her husband and concerns her welfare and that of her daughter's - if you get involved you are crossing the line and if she takes your advice and it doesn't work out she will blame you. Sounds like she needs to learn to stand on her own two feet.

[Mythical_Suicide]

I think you need to stay out of it and I reiterate that if you truly care about her daughter you will not move in with her until you are married or engaged with a firm wedding date in the very near future. Don't listen to me - check out Dr. Joy Browne - she has a web site and several books that concern this subject of dating separated or divorced people and what is best for the children in that situationn.

 

Just because they get married doesn't mean they are going to stay together..

I dont see any difference in him moving in and being around the child now with them dating than with them married. The child has obviously already been introduced to this man and he's willing to take on the responsibilities I dont dont see what the difference a piece of paper is going to make in this childs life. Atleast this mother hasnt had guys in and out of her childs like since she left the father, it seems her mother has been very mature about the situation and deserves to do what makes them happy.

 

As far as her asking you advice about the divorce, I agree you need to stay out of it it's something that she needs to handle on her own and she needs to make her own decisions about it without you changing her opinions Ya know? In the end it will work out better for the both of you.

 

Good Luck with everything!

[Batya33]

I disagree with your opinion on the best interests of the child here where he has been dating a married woman for six months and already allowed her child to get attached where there is no legal commitment and no imminent plans for one - in any event, she cannot commit as she is married. Many psychologists and authoritative studies and statistics, as well as my real life experiences and real life work provide ample support for my views on what is best for the child in a situation like this one. Obviously you are entitled to your views too - I am not saying I am right, just saying I am in good company with my views.

 

But, the OP has asked that input only be provided on the specific financial topic which I have done - the purpose of this post was only to respond to your raising the issue again.

[HarleyHunny]

Sounds to me as if the guy is continueing to take care of his responsibililties. Not ALL men only pay the 'required' amount.

 

IMHO, getting involved w/someone who's still married, no matter how long they've been separated, is a no-no. As for her, it's never a good idea to jump from one relationship straight to another. She should be considering the child first and foremost.

 

Agree with the others, stay out of it.

[Mythical_Suicide]

She can't single the rest of her life, as long as the childs needs are being met there is nothing wrong with her getting into a serious relationship.

[Batya33]

Not the rest of her life, certainly, but at least a year after the divorce is final - and longer if her child needs her undivided attention. In my view the best interests of the child require that she not live with a man who is not the child's father or her husband and not let a man she is dating only 6 months get involved with her daughter, particularly when she is still married.

 

To say "as long as her needs are getting met" is circular - it depends how you define "her needs" and that is how I define her needs based on my personal experiences and what I have read and learned from experts in the field.

 

Kids don't understand "dating" - they get attached even if there is no official commitment and even if it is a new relationship like this one- this child has already been through the chaos of separation from her dad and to allow her to get involved with another man who has no legal commitment to the mother is risking that child being abandoned yet again. On top of that she is providing a poor role model in not standing on her own and taking care of herself but rather rushing into another serious relationship while she is still married. Just my humble opinion.

 

Again, since you continued this discussion I am responding only to your post, not the OP and I apologize! - if it is off topic.

[sharper4]

Alright guys, no offense but this thread is getting hijacked. Lets pls stop arguing over whether or not her and I should discuss moving in. She moved on. The husband moved on. They technically separated July 2005. He moved out just prior to 2006. I met her in July. Didn't meet the daughter until a few months later, so for arguments sake, it was probably 10+ months that they weren't 'living' together before the daughter met me. The child has no idea that they were or weren't technically divorced so lets not let this get any more off topic than it already is.

 

Thank you. Could we not continue to reply back to other's regarding my g/f moving on, that's not what this thread was about.

 

Not flaming, just trying to stay on topic.

[Jeff777]

Well, I was at a State Mandated parenting class last night! Every one in the State of New Jersey who's involved with a divorce proceeding HAS to take this 2 hour class. Very informative.

 

THe main theme was the transition of the child through the divorce process.

I do believe the children should be our main concern - even above our "own interests." So I think we need to think long and hard as to what that looks like for each of our own situations - and perhaps lay down our agendas at least for a while until we are as sure as we can be - that moving along with the new relationship is the right thing for all concerned.

 

Wishing you the best.

[radioheader]

back to the issue of the money...would the ex would get to write off the entire amount of child support... i guess if he claims the child as the dependent on his taxes and if he makes more $ it is usually beneficial...then he will have a tax savings at his higher rate and should be able to pay her more....check with an attorney on these matters...will she get alimony? i know she will pay taxes on that and he would deduct it....but not sure about the child support...

 

i'll leavve out my 2 cents worth on all the issues about the child and the moving in together...i think you wouldn've asked us for our opinion on that if you wanted it....good luck.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

actually if she is not officially divorced yet, your moving in before the divorce could actually influence how the judge views child support and custody issues... until one is fully divorced, the charge of adultery can be made and used to affect financial and custody issues, even if you only started dating after the separation. most lawyers will tell you not to date at all til the divorce is final, and definitely not live together for this reason... so it might be in her best interest to not live with you until after they resolve all issues and the judge settles the divorce.

 

regarding the financial issues, legally, if her ex can get her to agree to the reduced child support in writing, the judge can validate that and agree to it... but it is not usual to order someone to make a car payment, other than to award X dollars in transition support, for X period of time... i.e., the judge could agree to $500/mo child support, and $250 a month for 3 years, without specifying it is for a car payment...

 

but look at it this way, if she agrees to $500 child support, that's $1200 less per year, maybe only $15K less total by the time the child hits 18... so if her husband agrees to pay off her car, does it amount to that $15K or even close to it?? and $100/mo. less over 3 years (before she can reapply) is $3600 less for those 3 yeras, but if he's paying $250/mo for 3 years, that's means she's $9000 AHEAD after 3 years...

 

so neither your ex nor her husband appears to be doing anything that really amounts to financially cheating the other person, and really, if they can come to a pleasant agreement either way, it is not so bad... and they seem to have a far more amicable divorce than most, and starting a big fight over this amount of money might not be worth it in the long run if it turns nasty and expensive lawyers have to be hired...

[sharper4]

Wow - lots of good info.

 

BeStrongBeHappy - Fear not... I wouldn't move in or anything until she was at the very least divorced. We were warned about even dating but the reality was that she and her ex had long since separated and been dating other people. Its kind of a mute point but I have no intention of moving in until that door is completely closed.

 

Looks like he is going to end up paying the full amount and half the house payments for now. In addition, he's to pay half of all her "living expenses" (water, electric, etc) and she is to pay half of his "living expenses" (same) until the divorce is finalized (about a 2 wk process from here).

 

Thanks everyone for your input.