Cheating potential

[cantexplain]

I'm single again and have been considering not only the things I want in my next companion ... but also considering what to watch for to make sure I don't settle for the kind of person who may be prone to infidelity.

 

Some of you on this forum will undoubtedly be in this same position sooner or later.

 

Of course, I understand that by being a good companion - emotionally and physically available - that I must hold my end of the relationship.

 

Reading through many of these posts I see a definite trend where one mate cheats on another because he/she did not feel his/her needs were met - and then the relationship still continues. And clearly many of these acts of infidelity go unmentioned to the other partner - for months, years, even forever.

 

The huge violation is that it seems likely that highest levels of intimacy are now unattainable in these situations - not only robbing the person who was cheated on of truth, but also of his/her own real potential for the highest levels of intimacy available in an honest, mature, open, and committed relationship of two equals.

 

I've read that people who cheat on their lovers, or who have wittingly been involved sexually with someone cheating, are very likely to repeat this behavior in that relationship and in future ones. The recidivism among cheaters is quite real, apparently.

 

I can say after 7 mid to long term relationships and 1 one night stand that I am quite certain that I have never cheated and have not been with someone who is cheating on another. Its just not in me.

 

But twice I have been cheated on. Once I had failed to make a commitment to marriage after nearly five years and my partner cheated on me: I think in an act of sabotage. The other time was much more insidious - an old boyfriend was a closet lover for the 18 months of my committed, family-style relationship with a woman, a mother of one.

 

I can say this is very painful, destructive, and should be avoided at all costs.

 

I don't know how I can possibly ferret out those people who may be prone to this behavior. I was wondering if any of you may have any ideas.

 

I'm thinking that in dating conversations if I can achieve some level of trust to find out if a person has ever stumbled might be one approach. Yet some of these people may not be willing to concede this. So such an approach might lead me to accepting people who have not only been prone to cheating, but also lying about it.

 

Such people might also be lying to themselves - simply not truly self-aware.

 

One thing I have noticed in these posts also is a great number of individuals who believe that omitting truth is a kind and correct thing to do in order to protect a partner's feelings when they have made such mistakes, e.g. "Honesty does not mean telling all - it means being truthful about what you do tell."

 

I believe it might be a great idea for us committed types to also ferret-out people who believe this kind of thing about honesty. It seems these people may already be on the slippery slope of rationalized selfishness.

 

Any ideas, criticisms, complaints?

 

How do we find partners who work out relationship problem without acting out sexually with a third party - or simply go after the fun and excitement of extra-marital sex unseen by their partners? I'm just looking for some wisdom.

 

Thanks.

[meantime]

I understand you exactly as I have been in long term relationships and have been cheated on while I have been faithful. I just ended one of three years he maybe never actually cheated (could never prove it) but every sign was there and he cheated on his first wife seven times in their three year marriage...I should have not given this guy one minute of my time but the thing is...we can't really pick who we fall in love with. We can say we are going to choose one like this or that, we can read all the books on how to get the right kind of love, believe me I have read them all but in the end, you can't make love happen with someone because they will by loyal. I don't know if this makes any sense but it is an interesting topic.

[birdgirl]

In my experience, when I was with someone who either ended up cheating on me, or who was trying to cheat on me (ie, talking to other girls, sneaking around to hang out as "friends" (yeah, right) with a girl and not telling me) I always had a nagging feeling throughout the relationship that I could not trust the guy.

 

I used to think I had major trust issues, but now I don't think that's the case, because I have been in relationships where I was able to trust completely and not worry.

 

I am slowly learning to trust my gut. If I can't trust him and can't get the nagging feeling that he's going to betray me, he's got to go.

 

Trust yourself and your intuition and you'll be okay.

[stillhappy]

The very best people are only people at the very best. I don't know of any cures, but I know of plenty of preventions. It's possible that the finest of people could cheat, we're all human. Having made these disclaimers, I think there is a lot to be said for getting to know a person well enough for their true colors to show. Watch them with other people. How do they treat other people, how often do they lie for the sake of expedience? Are they sneaky? What level of integrity do they display? Do they ever try to get away with something? Are they usually able to say no to themselves when best judgement warrants it? Do they rarely display selfishness? Do they often put others first, ahead of themselves? I think it is rare that cheaters don't realize when they are crossing lines, but many times by then, they can't say no to themselves, to the pleasure. Don't give away your heart too soon, it's precious. Don't give in to the moment or the other person if you have any doubts whatsoever. Don't cheat yourself...and expect others not to. We rarely get in trouble when our standards are too high, it's when they're too low. Be a person of high character and accept nothing less in your mate. Don't buy until you've become a good shopper. Slow down!!! The number one sign of a potential cheater is low character.

[cantexplain]

yes I think that a person feeling they can share baggage with the other, rather than feel like the other person might not understand, not compelled to hide it - does sharpen the bonding and move the relationship forward.

 

this topic is about avoiding people prone to infidelty. This is something I have chosen to avoid at all costs.

 

and I recognize that in the inital stages of a relationship, as bonding is occurring - that such baggage may not be forthcoming.

 

I really used to be more accepting of people who had promiscuous periods - believing they would change with me. Eventually "code words" like no strings attached or repeated mysterious nights away from home, and other clues begin to pop-up.

 

research shows the behavior is more likely to continue within the new relationship, not stop on account of it.

 

And I am too old and the people in my dating circle are too old to expect much real character change to occur. And character is different than baggage.

 

Sorry I am jaded, I guess.

 

I do like your points here and in other threads. I like in this case:

 

"I think your journey to understanding how to have a meaningful relationship starts with understanding yourself and your own needs first."

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

This may be off the topic..but then again ..it might be right on.

 

I think that everyone is trying to obtain some level of intimacy with a partner... yet we are clueless as to how to achieve it.

 

It is my opinion that people cheat because the "fantasy" of what a relationship should be is not being met.. to make matters worse...they/we aren't even sure how to ask for it.

 

So rather then communicate with our current partner - they/we often go off and find someone else to fulfill the fantasy- and most of the time the cycle just keeps repeating itself because we have not learned the skills to have a successful relationship or create true intimacy.

 

In other words..we want what we want..but we either don't want to do the work to get there or ..we don't know how to.

 

Thats my ammature opinion.

[cantexplain]

I think you are right but there are also people who are basically happy with whateever level of intimacy they have with their partner and still succomb to the temptations of a fleshy encounter with a coworker, neighbor, or stranger.

 

Your point is very relevant, however. The ability of a partner to, in time, ask for the things she needs and wants is critical to the success and security of the relationship.

 

Thanks.

[cantexplain]

So here is how far ya'll have helped me with this topic of how to assess cheating potential in a romantic prospect:

 

meantime reminds me to learn from my past mistakes in partner choices.

 

birdgirl says trust my gut.

 

stillhappy adds take the time to get to know someone and watch for character flaws like sneakiness, selfishness, abilty to say "no" as judgement warrants.

 

stillhappy also adds that I should keep my standards high and expect the same of others in my inner circle.

 

2600degrees says two important things - know what I want and value. Also, he adds if someone is not comfortable around me in relation to their own baggage, they may stray.

 

Healinghands reminds me to look for an ability to communicate in the other person as well as for me to stay away from those who may be idealizing me and our relationship.

 

Thanks this is a lot of good stuff.

 

Ya'll are great.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

It is also important for a man to ask for what he needs and wants as well as the woman.. perhaps that would prevent him from "succombing to a fleshy ecounter with a coworker, neighbor, or stranger".

 

i think if someone were truly happy in their relationship (i.e. needs being met) there would not be a reason to look outside of the relationship.

 

Asking for what you need...takes knowing yourself and what is important to you.

 

Setting healthy bounderies is also important when it comes to relationships.

 

i have yet to master this..and i dont know that i ever will but i am definitely learning and growing as a woman.

[cantexplain]

Quote:

 

"It is also important for a man to ask for what he needs and wants as well as the woman.. perhaps that would prevent him from "succombing to a fleshy ecounter with a coworker, neighbor, or stranger".

 

i think if someone were truly happy in their relationship (i.e. needs being met) there would not be a reason to look outside of the relationship."

 

yes, in theory I agree with you - but I do think there are some super screwed-up and emotionally shallow alpha type men who are basically content with their shallow marriages and do sleep around. Well, actually I've known them.

 

I will add my ability to set boundaries and ask for what I want and need to the list.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

2600, i have definitely been there... so i understand what you are saying.

 

i have often wondered if i was either not asking correctly- meaning my partner didn't undertand my request and didn't realize how important it was to me or my partner was not capable of meeting my needs.

 

In my case my partner was not able to meet my needs- he was incapable.... so i left the relationship.

 

Thats why i also think it is important to set clear personal bounderies while in relationships- if you have your bounderies clearly defined for YOURSELF- when you partner/family member crosses those bounderies you can clearly articulate what you did not like about their behavior etc.

 

thats just my take on it.

 

I'm curious to know what some of your request were, if you wouldn't mind sharing?

[cantexplain]

Hmmm. What if you ask (not just about sexually intimate requests) for things, but are ignored, or worse yet, guilted for asking?

 

one girlfriend I had said in the early part of the relationship - "whatever you do never get frustrated with me"

 

And she didn't mean raising my voice or anything more severe than just experessing any frustrations.

 

As it turned out there eventually came many things to be disappointed about in that relationship. And I was not allowed to be frustrated, to boot.

 

To say the least, it was really lopsided communication situation.

 

My lesson learned: must be allowed to express frustration.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

/QUOTE]

 

yes, in theory I agree with you - but I do think there are some super screwed-up and emotionally shallow alpha type men who are basically content with their shallow marriages and do sleep around. Well, actually I've known them.

 

I will add my ability to set boundaries and ask for what I want and need to the list.

 

I dont know that they are super shallow men (or women) .... i just think that if people were in truly committed intimate relationships .... then the need to look outside of the relationship would not be there.

 

i dont condone cheating...its wrong..and we all know it is... but i believe the reason people cheat is from lack of needs being met.

 

i personally think that as individuals we don't know how to meet our OWN needs ..how can we expect someone else to know how to meet them?

 

Maybe, these super shallow people are just trying to fill their needs ...and are absolutely clueless as to how to do this...so they keep searching from person to person... either remaining single or looking outside of their relationships to fill those needs.

 

Thats just my theory.

[cantexplain]

Quote:

 

"I dont know that they are super shallow men (or women) .... i just think that if people were in truly committed intimate relationships .... then the need to look outside of the relationship would not be there."

 

 

ok so let me describe my subset of shallow and cheatin' guys a bit more.

 

picture preppy upscale old school Atlanta aristocracy:

 

Their granddaddy messed around, their daddy messed around - now they image their forebearers and mess around - their sons are cheating on their dates - it is learned and expected in this old boy filial and fraternal system.

 

Oh now I get your point - if they had a really great woman for a wife who would just rock their world they'd be able to break this filial and fraternal pattern.

 

Maybe picking a weaker (& less fulfilling) kind of woman is also a part of this old boy filial and fraternal pattern.

 

So I revise and add to my list above:

 

Healinghands: both parties are great at communicating, in time, what they need and want in a relationship.

 

Healinghands: both parties are great at communicating and honoring each others boundaries in this case relating to fidelity.

 

One thing about me is I never think that infidelity is excused by a lack of needs being met. It is definitely an explanation.

 

And you are sooo right, good two-way communication is the underpinning to needs being met.

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

Well lets not pick on preppy people..haha cause everyone is doing their share of cheating!

 

but seriously, a man could have the BEST woman in the world ...but still be unsatisfied.

 

A relationship is a two way street and BOTH people have to be just as present as the other ... maybe not all the time..but there definitely should be an even give and take.

 

So based on your theory ..maybe the little preppy family had no idea how to ask for what they needed.. ...maybe the "weaker" woman in the relationship didn't have clear bounderies...so her spouse was able to do as he pleased. Neither being satisfied.

 

I'm curious ..what are some of your reasons that someone would cheat?

[cantexplain]

Healingheart you asked: "I'm curious ..what are some of your reasons that someone would cheat?"

 

I think all my reasons could still fit right under your umbrella of communication and needs not being met - if one were to dig deep in all these cases.

 

Here are some reasons that came to mind:

 

~ selfishness

 

~ sabotage

 

~ horny about someone outside the relationship and willing to act on this passion

 

~ acting out a childhood or other sexual trauma that is not being healed within current relationship

 

~ uncertainly - want to see how sexual intimacy feels with another person and hope to explore this without partner's knowledge

 

~ because their fraternal or filial system expects it

 

~ they are mirroring their parents one or both of whom may have cheated on one another

[cantexplain]

"a man could have the BEST woman in the world ...but still be unsatisfied."

 

I'm assuming this best woman in the world is also self-aware and a great communicator - since she is the BEST, afterall.

 

this guy needs some serious help and doesn't deserve her.

 

so clearly this case is about him, not her.

 

Since she is so good, she will call this relationship off, not cheat, and move on to a more appropriate match.

[2600degrees]

2600, i have definitely been there... so i understand what you are saying.

 

i have often wondered if i was either not asking correctly- meaning my partner didn't undertand my request and didn't realize how important it was to me or my partner was not capable of meeting my needs.

 

In my case my partner was not able to meet my needs- he was incapable.... so i left the relationship.

 

Thats why i also think it is important to set clear personal bounderies while in relationships- if you have your bounderies clearly defined for YOURSELF- when you partner/family member crosses those bounderies you can clearly articulate what you did not like about their behavior etc.

 

thats just my take on it.

 

I'm curious to know what some of your request were, if you wouldn't mind sharing?

Types of requests: Background is that my best friends in the world unfortuneately live 1.5 hours away, so spending time with them typically means an overnight or a weekend...typically one weekend a year we go camping together...guy time...I've spend a lot of my vacation with my family, wife, kids because I love it, but I need time with these great friends.)

 

So about a year ago, someone in the group suggested we all pack it up and go to the boundary waters in northern minnesota for a canoe trip some time. No less than a 5 or 6 day trip. I ran it by my wife and she had a fit. She did not like it because:

1. When I want to do these things, she accuses me of not wanting to be with her

2. The "guy weekends" have always been a sore spot (once a friggin year mind you) because she isn't invited, or she thinks it because I don't want to be with her, whatever...and I pay for it later.

 

Last year I suggested I attend an art class (since I have a BFA and I wanted to learn something about sculpture) and again...a fit, accusing me of not thinking about her plans to go back to school and how this would impact it. (which was total bullsh1t)...it was one lousy class.

 

Basically, anything I needed which she felt threatened her own needs in anyway was off limits. I could peel off dozens of examples here. You asked.

 

I'd never strayed...16 years of faithfullness. I was there for her, but nothing was ever enough. I reached out all the time to work on marital issues and when it got hot and heavy, she'd take off or turn around all problems and level them at me...claiming I didn't love her, etc.

 

It was absolutely maddening, because I really tried to love this woman, but eventually, I just stopped trusting my feelings with her. Apparently, this is a classic borderline personality scenario in marriage.

 

So it may be unfair of me to compare with other marriages...my wife is a sick woman who is trying to get better. I fed into it because I loved her. Her illness was the 800 pound gorilla that wrecked our marriage in many respects.

[cantexplain]

"she'd take off or turn around all problems and level them at me...claiming I didn't love her, etc."

 

This is pure and simple verbal abuse.

 

She is using meanness and bad communication as a guise for her need to control you - which I believe she does because she is insecure. We focus on their ugly behavior while they continue to control us.

 

If she is talking like this, then this is definitely not about you in my opinion. When she attacks you like that I suggest that you disengage by not using the words "I" or "me" in any of your responses to her attacks. That way you don't become a part of her problem. Focus on what is bothering her, for sure, but AGAIN when she attacks you in this way I don't think it is wise to insert yourself into her problem any more than necessary. And don't attack or verbally abuse her, of course. I know it is hard, but be genuinely kind and as nice as much as possible. At the very least your health and your kids will benefit from your more peaceful high road.

 

Insert yourself into her or your problems (use I" or "me") only when she is not attacking and has not been for some time, I say.

 

Why do you think she may be insecure in your relationship?

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

Its very hard to give my opinion on your situation without knowing all of the details..and i have definitely learned that there are always two sides to any story.

 

But based soley on what you are telling me...your wife does sound very insecure..which is unfortunate. I wonder what has her feeling so insecure and threatened by anything you want to do outside of the marriage?

 

Maybe she feels hurt because she needs more one on one time with you? Maybe shes crying out for you to give her more loving attention but is expressing it in an unloving manner?

 

I'm sorry to hear you having such difficulties in your marriage.

[JoeWho]

I think that every person at one time or another will be in a situation where they have to make a decision as to whether or not they are going to cheat. I know that there have been many situations where I was in the position to cheat. For some it is a easy decision as in my case. I would never cheat, if I felt I really wanted to, it would be time to end the relationship before I engaged in any emotional or physical cheating. People who cheat are afraid and selfish. They cannot say no to any desires they may have and are afraid to lose the stability that a relationship gives them.

 

What I have observed from my own experience of being cheated on as well as many friends experience's is that usually you can identify a cheater by their character. A weak person with low self esteem has a high risk for cheating. Sneaky, dishonest people who try to get away with things like someone else stated on this thread are also a big risk. Strong secure people who are happy with who they are seem to be the best candidates to not cheat, but there are always exceptions. Also people who have been cheated on and felt the pain that it causes may be less likely to cheat as they know how it feels. I believer that generally once a cheater always a cheater unless something drastically changes in them, history has a tendency to repeat itself.

 

I enjoyed reading all of your responses as this is a very interesting topic.