Physical beauty, appearance... superficial?

[Sheyda]

It isn't that I am prettier than anyone here that I get this negativity regardless of how I present myself; it is because I happened to be in a place full of prejudiced people. I can't change prejudiced people's attitudes towards my appearance by dressing differently. If people are already prejudiced towards others they find attractive, the same judgements will still pop into their heads and some will even think, "Oh, that *****! She's trying to trick me into thinking she doesn't believe she's all that, but I can see right through her!" Sometimes they hate you more when you prove them wrong (even when you didn't do it on purpose, but they feel you did it to "attack" them), just like some people did when they realised I wasn't an idiot.

 

It is not as difficult now as it was earlier in my life (maybe because I moved), but I do still get the odd person looking down their nose at me and speaking to me as if I'm a three-year-old, or glaring at me for sitting in the same bus as them or even insulting me for walking down the same street. I handle it better today because I realise it's their problem and not mine and if they are so bothered by how someone else was born that they feel the need to look daggers and shout insults, they should seek help. Despite things being less difficult, it is still shocking to me that someone who is an adult still believes such stereotypes.

 

I still see young girls going through the same things I did and worse, only they don't know what to do, deal with it the wrong way and suffer because of that. No one deserves to suffer in silence, but because of how some people react to their calls for help, they do.

[Juliana]

I don't care. That's why I react negatively; I just don't care anymore. I don't care if someone is beautiful; it's visual noise that distracts from who they actually are. Nobody picks their genes, although people can make themselves more or less attractive within a certain range, and most do try very hard. So no one can be held responsible for their beauty, or lack of it, and thereforeeee it is meaningless in terms of who they are.

 

I am so sick of television trying to convince us that symmetrical facial features and a certain age range and a certain body type are to be associated with the highest mental and spiritual accomplishment a human being can reach. I am so sick of being told what I must seek, being told who I should love, what I should love, by an omni-present media that is over-invested in appearance and glibness.

 

I have had the experience of seeing someone I had once loved and thought beautiful, and finding him quite unattractive once I got to know who he had become. His actions entirely stripped his beauty away from him, although I'm sure other people still found him as attractive as they ever had. More and more, I believe that it is the qualities we attribute to beauty that makes it attractive to us, and those people who actually possess those qualities will be beautiful, whereas those who do not will never be beautiful. Every mother is beautiful to her child.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; now, how perceptive, how intuitive is the beholder? How accurate is their gaze and how deeply do they look to find the soul that is the source of any real beauty? The eyes of the media see only as deeply as the surface of the magazine page; human beings always see more.

[caro33]

It isn't that I am prettier than anyone here that I get this negativity regardless of how I present myself; it is because I happened to be in a place full of prejudiced people.

 

Yes, which is exactly why I said find a new environment, because I cannot for the life of me imagine someone being yelled at down a street or being actively discriminated against to the degree you describe just for being naturally good-looking. It sounds like an odd place. I have known several people who are generally held to be really really goodlooking (zoolander reference) and who never have had the sorts of issues you describe.

 

I won't even try to suggest again that you consider that you are doing more to bring this about that just naturally being objectively beautiful, as you do not seem to think it's an option and obviously you know your own situation better than I could ever guess at. So perhaps you have been just very unlucky.

 

It's good that you moved.

 

And Juliana, I agree.

[Unhumble]

Hi everyone. Sorry for replying so late, I had many exams these days.

 

I agree: let me tell you that I'm not attempting to evaluate which issues should be given more priority in society.

(To be honest, I'm sometimes not sure whether I even deserve to sit here and discuss about stereotypes and psychology while people in the less fortunate sections of the world keep dying for unjust causes; our personal vanities and worries on self-image seem to be more worthy of attention than world hunger and children's death.

But this is a completely different story...)

 

I'm not so sure whether the problems related to self-image and confidence are more present among people perceived as unattractive. (This might probably depend on where we live and whom we have lived with.)

 

You made me think a bit:

 

As Sheyda pointed out, it can happen that an entire society would find someone physically attractive (or beautiful in his/her way, or fashionable), but she or he just isn't aware of it... and consequently does all crazy things to adjust themselves, or have more, and more...

there have been many deaths caused by anorexia!

This to say that also people who are perceived as beautiful have serious issues. And they aren't just exceptions.

 

There are other problems stemming from attractivity and attention.

 

Very attractive people who are put into the centre of all attention by society can often feel very lonely; for example, too much attention can lead others to fear that it's impossible to create any deep personal relationship with someone so attractive (again, due to prejudice and stereotypes) and as time passes this "others" becomes "everyone"...

These people who used to be in the centre of attention end up giving their soul to what the same society defines as 'lesser values' (money, material, luxury, and the related societies etc.).

 

I know: there are many teenagers who commit suicide because they failed to achieve their dreams, their academic goals maybe. Maybe they didn't get into Harvard...

But what makes these issues more relevant/serious than the model who committed suicide because she couldn't realize her dream (entering fashion maybe?) without selling her body to the photographer?

 

...

 

caro33, you later suggest that a good balance could be reached by fitting into the symbolic standards set by society; such as by dressing appropriately depending on circumstances...

 

That's a good point.

 

However, it leads us back to the origin of the vicious circle: doing something for the sake of appeasing society, at the cost of personal freedom of art and expression - which is in no way different from what happens when media and magazines set standards for "fitting in".

Do you see the similarity?

 

...

 

We all agreed on the fact that beauty is relative, and let me stress that I agreed with this from the beginning of this discussion.

 

Yet, is only beauty in the eye of the beholder?

What about personal intentions? Attitudes? Aren't they relative as well?

 

What if I'm the humblest person on Earth and walk on the streets dressed like a superstar because I like that dress? In most cases, everybody would think that I'm trying to show off, since according to most societies' symbology and conventions, dressing that way necessarily means nothing but that.

But meanwhile, I might be lost in my thoughts and not even looking at the others, thinking about my exams.

This might be perceived as arrogance, etc. etc. etc.

 

Some of you mentioned that beauty and attractivity are often accompanied by arrogant attitudes.

People can be perceived as arrogant without ever knowing it, and without ever intending to be so.

 

Yeah, my friends, look at it from a different perspective: also arrogance is in the eye of the beholder.

 

The mere fact of trying to interpret other people's feelings by the way they make themselves appear... that's arrogance. And also superficial.

 

To think "She dresses like that... she must be a real 'attention wh.'!" That's arrogance.

 

Please note that I'm not trying to attack anyone, but simply portray how things can be perceived on the other end.

 

I also support Sheyda's argument...

I feel like this is similar to telling an Asian girl who has always dyed her hair blonde and worn blue contacts that she can control the racist comments she has always received by looking less Asian. No matter what she is wearing they can still see she is Asian and they will still discriminate.

 

How true this is.

 

Not only in the domain of beauty and self-confidence, but also in cultural aspects, national identity, etc. there are always people who say "Be yourself!" [and all its variant expressions] but in fact try to make you what they want you to be!

 

...

 

So what is evil or superficial is not beauty itself, but rather the way that the concept of beauty has been twisted and manipulated.

 

Now, this seems to be a good explanation. However, all those common "wisdom" quotes and stereotypes really make it sound totally different. And everyone seems to accept the stereotype, rather than the explanation.

 

Just in the same way people say "Be yourself", but in fact want you to be as they want.

 

I don’t know anyone who thinks that a beautiful person can’t be good or intelligent.

 

Well, lucky you You are probably living in a very mature and open-minded society, unlike the majority of people I meet daily...

 

...

 

They also are really bad with being so critical about one's appearance that people will believe it, because we all at some point in time DO care to be accepted by the rest of the world. But too bad, because everyone should have a sense of what THEY like for themselves. Love yerself!

 

There you go! Absolutely right.

However, you should specify that if you like something you found on the magazine or saw on the media, and maybe everyone else likes it, too, you shouldn't feel compelled to refrain from wearing what you like just for the sake of "loving yerself".

 

What I'm trying to say is: just because you like some pop songs should not mean that you are a conformist and don't have your own tastes.

But also the other way round: Just because you listen only to heavy metal songs doesn't mean that you are really listening it because you like it for yourself.

(considering that where I live, pop music is considered commercial, conformist, whereas heavy metal is "unique", individual, etc.)

 

My end line:

Do whatever you like (fashion, physical preferences, music, etc.),

neither for the sake of fitting in (media, social conventions, etc.),

nor for the sake of being different (anti-media, anti-conformism, etc.).

Simply, do what you like. Wherever the inspiration comes from.

 

...

 

I don't care if someone is beautiful; it's visual noise that distracts from who they actually are. [...] So no one can be held responsible for their beauty, or lack of it, and thereforeeee it is meaningless in terms of who they are.

 

Well, that was what I was trying to tell the whole time!

Just because you're like a media doll or Tom Cruise (or Brad Pitt, whoever), doesn't mean you're shallow or stupid

 

Every mother is beautiful to her child.

Naaah... to be honest, I find my mother ugly

And as you might have already guessed, also ugliness is in the eye of the beholder...

[caro33]

caro33, you later suggest that a good balance could be reached by fitting into the symbolic standards set by society; such as by dressing appropriately depending on circumstances...

 

That's a good point.

 

However, it leads us back to the origin of the vicious circle: doing something for the sake of appeasing society, at the cost of personal freedom of art and expression - which is in no way different from what happens when media and magazines set standards for "fitting in".

Do you see the similarity?

 

And my point was: too bad. If you dress a certain way and you are deeply disturbed by how people react to you, then either suck it up and choose to dress like that and not let people get you down, or choose to dress to fit your surroundings a little more and suffer the indiginity of not being true to yourself. Or perhaps move to somewhere where everyone dresses like you, or move somewhere to be on your own where you get to express yourself and no one can judge.

 

I know that people like to have a vent about the unfairness of things, and that's fine. That may be what elements of the posts in this thread have been, and fair enough. But there's a limit, and sometimes some sense of perspective and some humility can go a long way to helping the sense of unfairness.

 

Society is unfair. It's unfair to all of us some of the time, sometimes to some of us all the time. But society is what it is; there are laws of conduct that are written and there are also the unwritten ones that apply for different sub-cultures, different geographic regions etc. We all have the challenge of asking ourselves if we want to fit in with those around us, and then asking how do we fit in while also asserting our individuality. We are all subject to media and cultural perceptions of beauty, and the unfair judgements of those around us.

 

To sum up: if a person is dressing or acting in a way that brings condemnation from those around them then the matter is for that individual to decide whether that suits them or not. To change or not, whether it is clothes or environment. I do not think this is a matter of 'but I'm still too beautiful for people to cope with', this sounds like a copout to me. But that's just my opinion.

[Batya33]

So well put, caro33! And, I know more than one person who claims to dress a certain way in the interests of freedom of expression but it is obviously just to rebel or because of the shock value attention they get.

[Unhumble]

And, I know more than one person who claims to dress a certain way in the interests of freedom of expression but it is obviously just to rebel or because of the shock value attention they get.

 

That was my point in my previous post. It might be that a person does so just as an expression of rebellion. Or maybe not.

But how can we, outside observers, decide whether this person is doing so because she likes it or because she wants to rebel?

 

Society is unfair. It's unfair to all of us some of the time, sometimes to some of us all the time. But society is what it is; there are laws of conduct that are written and there are also the unwritten ones that apply for different sub-cultures, different geographic regions etc. We all have the challenge of asking ourselves if we want to fit in with those around us, and then asking how do we fit in while also asserting our individuality. We are all subject to media and cultural perceptions of beauty, and the unfair judgements of those around us.

 

Yikes... a bit passive-minded thou hast become...

 

I obviously don't expect everyone to get enlightened after reading this thread and to start loving each other excluding all forms of prejudice.

Simply, I wanted to point out at yet another unfairness of society.

At least, be aware of it, and contribute to doing some change instead of just stoically "coping" with unfairness.

Although we're individuals, our single actions count.

 

I personally do my best to be myself always and not be influenced by other people's stereotypes towards me, although it's difficult.

I don't just blame others and shut up.

 

However, one person is not enough. I know too many people who are unable to act consciously against stereotypes and prejudice.

 

Anyway, my scope was to simply point this out. This is worth mentioning, just as all other issues that are regularly brought up on this forum.

I just noticed that not many people are so aware of this.