believing in god

[tmp0620]

Actually, I didn't say I was an agnostic. Check it again. However, I WAS one until I realized that I'd feel better sending a note of thanks to a house where someone who MIGHT have helped me MIGHT live than to keep my gratitude passive and secret. Some might argue that makes me an 'agnostic deist', and they're welcome to call me whatever they want, but I might decide to think atheistically tomorrow and throw all my weight behind Satan the day after that, and I won't be pinned down or pigeonholed in my own mind.

 

Fair enough... however...

 

Since you DID say "As an agnostic one realizes that the existence of deities cannot be disproved. thereforeeee, I..."

 

The "I" gives it away

 

Just playing.

[lonestar_80]

Never mind that Jesus said never to build a church in his name; it's all good.

That is not really true. Jesus said in Matthew16:18And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.[c]

 

Worship Jesus? No, I don't think that's what he would have wanted. He never made his friends bow down to him.

 

That is not really true as well...

 

The Old Testament fortold of the people worshiping the Messiah. For example, Daniel 13:13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presense. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

 

Jesus came to people as a humble man but he also knew that at his 2nd coming he would not longer be just a man/prophet. He would be a King sitting on the right hand side of God coming to judge the entire world of their sins.

Jesus will separate the saved (Sheep from the unsaved (goats). The unsaved are people that have not accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior. If Jesus has the right to judge you on Judgement Day then he expects worship form you.

 

Matthew 25 31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

 

 

Philippians

2:9thereforeeee God exalted him to the highest place

and gave him the name that is above every name,

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

[DropToZero]

There are tons of religions in the world. The people who believe in those religions all believe equally. How could one be right and one wrong? It's all blind faith. If I write a bunch of parables on a piece of paper, and claimed that "god" told me to write these things no one would believe me... and yet...

 

 

Yes exactly, who's to say who's right and who's wrong? That's why I said..until death, or whatever end comes, no one will know. That's why I HATE that all religions believe so blindly that they're RIGHT, and everyone else is wrong. Okay..maybe that was a big generalization, but in most senses...that's how it goes, even if you don't outright tell everyone who follows a different religion. In your heart, you believe you're right, and in the end, that's what matters to you...so keep it that way. The point where you start crossing the line is ...telling others they're wrong and going to hell etc... (I especially hate those guys who come to my college campus and just rant and rave in the middlemost point of campus about sex/drugs/partying...you name it, they're ...in not so many words, butts)

 

Honestly havent you ever heard?...if you want to get rich quick, start a religion.

 

I mean, there are so many common rules between different religions, I'm not going to name them all...but in some context, almost all of them follow the same ones. I even have a link to a video online that talks about how religions use sex as one key to control followers(i.e. how it's bad before marriage, not with someone you're not in love with). If you want to see it, PM me I guess, but I dont think it may be appropriate to post for younger viewers(and that's not in my opinion, because I think censorship is a bad thing, and people should be able to see all of the world and not be confined, but that's up to the admins/mods).

[lonestar_80]

It seems that others believe that the documents aren't that old.

 

Who are the others? The documents are carbon dated so they are that old. Look up information about the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

If the world is 4.5 billion years old wouldn't that be enough time for nature to create the complexities that exist in the world today?

 

Not really because it does not explain how it came to be in the first place. As I said before 4.5 billion years of random acts does not explain anything. In fact, it just affirms that there is a creator. Many species that exist today would not exist if it were left alone to radon evolution. The process of evolution would have taken to long to produce the essential elements needed for some species to survive.

[tmp0620]

Who are the others? The documents are carbon dated so they are that old. Look up information about the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

 

 

Not really because it does not explain how it came to be in the first place. As I said before 4.5 billion years of random acts does not explain anything thing. In fact, it just affirms that there is a creator. Many species that exist today would not exist if it were left alone to radon evolution. The process of evolution would have taken to long to produce the essential elements needed for some species to survive.

 

I just read that some believed they date to around 165 BCE and some believed they dated to around 530 BCE.

 

Just because we don't know the answer to a question doesn't mean that something magic or mystical was behind it.

[lonestar_80]

Yes exactly, who's to say who's right and who's wrong? That's why I said..until death, or whatever end comes, no one will know. That's why I HATE that all religions believe so blindly that they're RIGHT, and everyone else is wrong. Okay..maybe that was a big generalization, but in most senses...that's how it goes, even if you don't outright tell everyone who follows a different religion. In your heart, you believe you're right, and in the end, that's what matters to you...so keep it that way. The point where you start crossing the line is ...telling others they're wrong and going to hell etc... (I especially hate those guys who come to my college campus and just rant and rave in the middlemost point of campus about sex/drugs/partying...you name it, they're ...in not so many words, butts)

 

It can be really hard sharing what you believe with people. I know!

What I do know is that sharing the gospel message of Christ is meant to be out of love and not malice. No one of any religion is perfect. In fact the Bible says that we all are sinner snad have fallen short the glory of God. I KNOW I HAVE!!!

 

Anyway the gospel message is simple. I just see it as sharing what you know with a friend out of love because you do not want to see someone that you love hurting. No one should ever tell someone that they are going to hell. No one really knows who is going to hell.

 

My favorite passage from the Bible is Psalms 103 it is one of the most beautiful passages written in the entire Bible. Gods love is everlasting.

 

The fact is that we all must die one day and we have to decide where we want to spent eternity. We have to make the decision before our death. When we step from time into eternity we cannot change our minds.

 

Jesus loved us so much that he paid our sin debt for us. The punishment for sin is death and hell. Since we all are sinners we all deserve to pay for our sins. But Jesus paid for our sin by dying on the cross and taking our punishment for us! John3:16 says---"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

God loves us! He does not want to punish us but to save us. We have to make up our minds that we are sinners and that we need Jesus to pay the debt that we owe. have you ever heard of Pascals Wager? Well it is not right judge others about how they live their lives.

 

Pascals Wager was simple:

1.Accept Jesus Christ and be wrong about God's exsistance.....nothing happens, you have nothing to lose.

 

2. Reject Christ lose your soul.

 

I really have nothing to lose by accepting Christ it is a win-win thing for me.

 

However, If I rejected Christ and waited until I died, I would lose my soul. I would have to stand before God and give an account of my life. What can I tell God? "Hey I did not believe in you b/c I thought everyone is right." That is not a good excuse. God is patient kind, and slow to anger. Just imagine he gives us a life time to make up our mind about Christ. But as the Apostle Pual said Today is the day of salvation give your life to CHirst today! No one is promised tomorrow and we may not wake up to see tomorrow. When you step from time into eternity it is to late. So make up your mind to give Jesus a chance today. Let Jesus pay your sin debt , let him be your Comforter, and let him be your Savior!!!

[lonestar_80]

I just read that some believed they date to around 165 BCE and some believed they dated to around 530 BCE.Just because we don't know the answer to a question doesn't mean that something magic or mystical was behind it.

 

I just think that it is cool that this still predates Jesus Christ!!! And all of the prophecies about Jesus Christ were true and are not made up. I proves that God knew the beginning from the end and he knows all things!!

[lonestar_80]

Psalm 103 is so beautiful! God saves and restores the soul!

 

image removed

[DropToZero]

Actually, since you keep bringing up the Bible, I've been watching something, one of many things I'm sure contesting it.

 

One...I've never been "in" love, I hardly wonder if it even exists, or if it's just again...another blind faith that controls one's body to an infatuation of such power to another person, call it what you want...I still have yet to really believe it. I find it hard to trust others for one, because time and time again, I only see the strongest of relationships failing. The ONLY, and one and ONLY thing that contests it supposedly...are my own parents, who had some problems earlier in their marriage, then after they both began going to church...have never yet to have one of that same degree(ie. a problem that could have led to divorce easily). But again, even that isn't perfect, because any one person or two people could blindly believe together that some person/religion/book saved their marriage. Whatever it may be, ...8 years or so down the line from that very same church that "saved" their marriage, our entire family stopped going there because of some jealously of power between my mother and the pastor.

 

Back to the bible though, you would agree again if I said, the bible isn't meant to be taken literally...correct? But there are so many stories in it that aren't even possible, or have any evidence of truth, but yet people who believe it with faith...you're fine, no one can touch you or disprove you because you're going to believe it that way. But those who have the slightest of doubt, if you really do your research, you'll find that many of those stories, truly are JUST stories. Did you know during the time that Jesus walked the earth...there was another messiah in another part of the world claiming the same things, with followers, and miracles? So...why is Jesus right? Just because he is in the most popular of books sold worldwide, his story is true and this other unknown messiah isn't? Another thing, in the bible, Jesus was born of the virgin Mary...right? So...think of your current girlfriend now(or if you dont have one, think of a past one)...if you and her hadn't engaged in sex, but she came to you tonight claiming she was pregnant...but also claimed God was the one who made her pregnant, would you believe her? Obviously...you should, because Joseph did...wow. That'd be some pretty hard news to believe...I'd be kicking her to the curb if that were me.

 

I can keep going on...but again, these are things people believe because of faith, and nothing's going to change that. I just happened to be one of the one's who tried and tried, but never "got it"...so here I am now.

[doyathink]

Ya know, ppl can kick rocks around this subject all day long....but it won't change a persons mind as to whether or not they believe.

 

I think religion quite frankly is rather stupid. I believe in God...and what the bible says. I could care less what religion I fall under because that doesn't define who I am.....I'm a Christian.

[tmp0620]

Ya know, ppl can kick rocks around this subject all day long....but it won't change a persons mind as to whether or not they believe.

 

I think religion quite frankly is rather stupid. I believe in God...and what the bible says. I could care less what religion I fall under because that doesn't define who I am.....I'm a Christian.

 

Aye, but it's fun to try to try to understand where everyone's coming from. It is for me anyway.

[doyathink]

Sure it is.

I wasn't posting that to you IL...lol

[tmp0620]

Sure it is.

I wasn't posting that to you IL...lol

 

oh, sure you weren't doyathink.

 

No I know you weren't I'm just saying.

[Spugly Fuglet]

Not really because it does not explain how it came to be in the first place. As I said before 4.5 billion years of random acts does not explain anything. In fact, it just affirms that there is a creator. Many species that exist today would not exist if it were left alone to radon evolution. The process of evolution would have taken to long to produce the essential elements needed for some species to survive.

 

O dear well heres a class 101 on evolution, "random acts" I have not had that one for some time, As Richard Darkins points out in his book "Climing mount Impossible" evolution give structure to small random changes in DnA which are not completely random there is a finight scope for thows changes, "random acts" is a gross miss representation of how evolutionery adaptation really works. 4.5 Billion years is about right.

 

"Many species that exist today would not exist if it were left alone to radon evolution."

 

Again a miss understanding of just how evolution works, the evolutionery sulection means that the limmited radom changers in DnA are the veted buy the organisms ability to servive and replecate thus carrying to the next geniration its adaptations.

 

Creationist, Intellegant designer, flat earthers find this part of evolutionery hard to get a grasp on and so miss represent it as pour radom events. Good religion but bad science.

 

God may have started the big bang and then he did not stick around to make every flower, nope he just created evolution, cleaver that.

[tmp0620]

Well said sir.

[Leonhart]

I like how a simple topic about a teen seeking some advice on how to know God has become a jihad and discourse on science VS. God. Completely missing the point.

 

Whatever. I'm not getting embroiled into a jihad over something so trivial. I come here to post about relationship-related problems, not debate 'the existence of God' with a bunch of people on teh intranet.

[Spugly Fuglet]

Whatever. I'm not getting embroiled into a jihad over something so trivial. I come here to post about relationship-related problems, not debate 'the existence of God' with a bunch of people on the intranet.

 

But of couse you are right ENA is a place to talk about human to human relationships and not so thows with the devine. There are better places for that on the web.

[Spugly Fuglet]

I was thinking there is no science VS. God discourse unless you try make god into a scientific clame, or scientific makes religus ones, then you need facts, evidence and proof to back it up and that's when it all comes undone.

[lonestar_80]

 

One...I've never been "in" love, I hardly wonder if it even exists, or if it's just again...another blind faith that controls one's body to an infatuation of such power to another person, call it what you want...I still have yet to really believe it. I find it hard to trust others for one, because time and time again, I only see the strongest of relationships failing.

 

The problem that youa re having is that you are placing all of your faith in man rather in God. All men/women are sinners! We all are imperfect! You should place your love in God and in Jesus! Love will come your way when you believe that you are worthy of divine love, or as the apostle Paul said maybe you are called to be single in order to preach the Word. What ever the case stop felling bad about your love life and enjoy what you have! I use to feel bad about my love life but I decided to stop doing that. When you let go of your expectations of love God will send you love. God sent me a love/friend to keep me company. He will do the same for you just wait!!

 

 

The ONLY, and one and ONLY thing that contests it supposedly...are my own parents, who had some problems earlier in their marriage, then after they both began going to church...have never yet to have one of that same degree(ie. a problem that could have led to divorce easily). But again, even that isn't perfect, because any one person or two people could blindly believe together that some person/religion/book saved their marriage. Whatever it may be, ...8 years or so down the line from that very same church that "saved" their marriage, our entire family stopped going there because of some jealously of power between my mother and the pastor.

 

WOW!!! Well my friend you are mistaking what Jesus is all about. Did your pastor save you from your sin? Did your parents save you form your sin? Jesus saved you from your sin!!!! It seems like you are placing what the church does as the end with all. Jesus died for your sins not a church. Churches may come and go but you relationship with Jesus should never change. Jesus is the focus of your life!! You should fellowship with others but it seems like you are leaving out the best park which is God. Your ex-pastor has nothing to do with your relationship with God.

 

Back to the bible though, you would agree again if I said, the bible isn't meant to be taken literally...correct?

I think you should take the Bible literally. If you believe that or not is up to you. However we are talking about a all knowing God that can maniffest anything that he wants to. The Bibel says that God wasy are higher than out ways. It is our LOWLY ways that limit us from understanding God. You only understand God based on boundaries placed in human exsistance, however inthe exisitance og God the boundaries are not the same. It amazes me how we can be so captivated by stories such as Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, yet we cannot use our boundless imaginations to try to understand the complexities of God.

 

But those who have the slightest of doubt, if you really do your research, you'll find that many of those stories, truly are JUST stories.

 

Oh My!!! Praise You Jesus!! Jesus was such a wonderful man. The concept of faith is so profound!!! Faith is something that is hard to come by. Jesus said in the Bible that many people would not believe unless they had signs and evidence. However, That is not what Jesus wanted. A time will come when the signs and evidence will be false, and you will worship a false god. You have to have faith in God, or you will be presentened with false evidence. The time of the AnitChrist has been around for a long time and one day the man who is the antichrist will decieve you with the evidence that you seek. We beileive by faith and not by sight!!!! What you see will be the very thing that will deceive you.

 

Did you know during the time that Jesus walked the earth...there was another messiah in another part of the world claiming the same things, with followers, and miracles? So...why is Jesus right?

 

Jesus is right because his life fits all of the prophcies of the true Messiah!! No one knows who you are talking about but Jesus is the most written about person in the world!! The Messiah was to be a Jewish man from the tribe of Judah a desendent from King David brought to bring his message first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles.

 

Just because he is in the most popular of books sold worldwide, his story is true and this other unknown messiah isn't?

 

Well no one knows about him? You do not even know his name. No one worked to up keep his legacy, no one died to keep his memory alive, thereforeeee he must have not been that important.

 

Another thing, in the bible, Jesus was born of the virgin Mary...right? So...think of your current girlfriend now(or if you dont have one, think of a past one)...if you and her hadn't engaged in sex, but she came to you tonight claiming she was pregnant...but also claimed God was the one who made her pregnant, would you believe her? Obviously...you should, because Joseph did...wow. That'd be some pretty hard news to believe...I'd be kicking her to the curb if that were me.

 

Well if you read the Bible you will see that Joseph did not believe Mary at first. In fact he reacted like any man would. He wanted to kick her to the curb. He no longer wanted to marry her. He wanted to send her away. However, he was visted by an angel that told him Mary was telling him the truth and that she was pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

 

I

can keep going on...but again, these are things people believe because of faith, and nothing's going to change that. I just happened to be one of the one's who tried and tried, but never "got it"...so here I am now.

Well I wil pray for you and I hope that you wil get it one day. Your well being is on the line. Pray to God to soften your hard and to let you become receptive of his Word. Love and God Bless always.

[lonestar_80]

Again a miss understanding of just how evolution works, the evolutionery sulection means that the limmited radom changers in DnA are the veted buy the organisms ability to servive and replecate thus carrying to the next geniration its adaptations.

 

That still does not show cause for some changes is species. The changes that were made from one gerneration to the next were to vast for the species to survive.

[Leonhart]

lonestar80, I agree with what you're saying, but I'm reminded of 1 Cor. 2:14:

 

"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know, because it is spiritually discerned."

 

While I believe in - and agree with everything you're saying - I just don't see the point of debating this. I mean, don't get me wrong; you're free to debate all you like. But it won't do any good. They won't understand, nor do they wish to. I just think you'd be better off saving your energy for something else.

 

Anyway, God bless and best wishes.

[Daddy Bear]

I don't debate with people whose minds are closed on the subject at hand, meaning virtually everyone participating in this thread. However, for the benefit of the one or two who may have a little freedom in their minds, I'd like to post the following:

 

 

Interview with Jesus

(excerpt; reprinted from link removed by permission of author Mark A. Goldman)

 

 

Jesus: ...I was tortured and killed because all of a sudden a lot of people began listening to what I had to say. And what I had to say was very different from the consciousness of the day. I was a threat to the power structure of both the religious and the political order that was in place then. My death was indeed a horrific injustice, but the injustice done to me was no more significant than similar injustice done to others. What’s more painful to me now is not the memory of my death or how I died, but the fact that the meaning of my life has largely been lost and the way a lot of people interpret my death does not please me at all. I imagine I would be a threat to the religious and political order today too if people really wanted to pay attention to what I have to say.

 

Mark: I’m sorry. I don’t understand.

 

Jesus: Well let me put it this way. It was never my intention to come onto this plane to be worshipped. That’s not my consciousness. That was never my intention. That’s not what I’m about. It does not please me to be called God and to be worshipped. My main message is very simple. What I wanted to say in my life is simply this: love one another. Which is to say, honor one another, tell the truth, seek justice, have courage. How hard is that to understand. Anyone who wants to honor me, or my life, can do so by simply living their life with that same intention. But somehow things got turned around. And that, I have to say… is something I still find very painful.

 

Mark: Well don’t you think people know that? Isn’t that why they go to church? Don’t they go to pray for guidance in how to do just that? I mean… isn’t the purpose of religion to gain greater understanding in how we can all love one another?

 

Jesus: Some people do. What concerns me is that so many go to worship, hoping that worshipping me, worshipping God, will somehow save them from something, or get them something they want. If worship made people more responsible, that would be ok. But it doesn’t always work that way. I think loving someone who has dedicated his life to humanity, which is what I did, is a wonderful thing, but I did not dedicate my life to humanity in hopes of being worshipped… or rather I should say, I would hope that in loving me and in being loved by me, people would use that experience to help them understand how to love others. You see, loving me is not that hard. But I want you to love one another. That’s not so easy. I know that. It never has been. But I still hope for it. The way I know I am really loved is when people who listen to what I said, take it to heart and try to follow my example. I hope my love comforts you, but I also hope that it inspires you to have courage in seeking justice and goodwill towards all people.

 

Mark: Well that’s not so easy. I mean most people have difficulty loving others all the time. I know I don’t always feel loving towards others.

 

Jesus: The problem is that people think that love is a feeling that they should always feel. When they don’t feel that way they think they don’t love. But to love other people does not mean that you have to feel any particular way all the time. To love other people has more to do with your commitment to the things you say you believe in. For example, in this country you can express your love for one another by simply being true to your ideals. Treat all people with respect, be a good citizen, try to help one another by supporting legislation that is compassionate and fair, for example. It has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with simply making decisions that are consistent with your values moment to moment. And on a more personal note you can do the same thing... in your own home, in your school, in your job. Treat people you know with as much compassion and understanding as you can… and treat those you know and those you don’t know the same. Look, everyone makes mistakes. If you can treat people fairly, particularly when they screw up, that is love, too. I never asked anyone to do the impossible. By making me into someone to be worshipped, I’m sorry to say… is really to reject my message. It isn’t an act of love, if you see what I mean.

 

Mark: Well, to tell you the truth, I’m not sure that I do. Can you give me an example or be more specific.

 

Jesus: Well listen Mark, the point is this: when you say that only I have the ability to love unconditionally and that you do not, you are already giving yourself an excuse to not follow my example. And besides, it just isn’t true. I lived on this plane just like you do. I was not capable of anything that others could not do or be. I wasn’t asking you to be more than you could be. I was asking you to be what you could be. But most people didn’t believe me, didn’t trust me, weren’t willing to change, didn’t have the courage to… not even my own followers. If they had believed in me and trusted me, they would have become what I was, which I told them they could do. A few understood but most did not. By choosing to worship me, by setting up a church in my name, they eventually ended up playing politics. They wanted to influence others not by being an example, which is very hard to do, but they took the easy road… by setting up rules and levels of authority… by inventing frightening images of how people would be punished if they didn’t obey this authority or that rule. That was not my example. They found it too hard to simply love one another like I tried to do and instead made me into much more than even a hero… they lifted my image up so high that no one could hope to be what I was. For many, all they understood was that they were supposed to worship me, pray to me, treat me like an idol. But that was a distortion of my message. I am not interested in being worshipped. I am interested in being loved. You demonstrate that you love me, by trusting me, by believing me… by doing what you can to love one another. If that’s what you are doing, then what I went through was worth it.

 

You can read the rest of this fantasy interview at:

link removed

[Diggitydave]

To be totally honest I am still learning a LOT about God! I've been saved for over 2 years now and the journey hasn't been easy. The biggest lesson i've learned is to just believe. Don't try to figure it out, don't question it, just believe. I am a very scientific person and it has taken me these past two years and many hardships and a TON of mistakes and anguish. Finally i really realized that i was trying to figure God out and that is impossible. He just wants us to believe, not figure him out then believe. God is not science or a physical being with cells and a formula, we can't figure him out. We just have to believe. I mean at one point he was in flesh as Jesus but you must just believe and stop trying to figure out why the bible says what it says and match it up with science and wait for physical feelings of satisfaction. God is not a magic trick....just believe!

[Leonhart]

You are a smart man.

 

Doesn't it say that "without faith, it is impossible to please God"?

[pianoguy]

For the OP- ignoring the rock kicking since:

 

I think we can learn two main things from this thread:

 

1) There are many diverse views on God and faith

2) It is extremely important to come to terms with how you view the world and to be secure in one's beliefs, whatever they may be.

 

I think it is important to consider a wide variety of faiths at some point in one's life, but I also think it is a good idea to consider what faiths one may be predisposed to. If one is raised in a strong Catholic family, it is unlikely that one will ever feel as comfortable in a Buddhist community, for example, regardless of how much the faith appeals to one's rational/spiritual mind.

 

Since most people settle close to the faith that they inherited from their parents, I like to direct people to consider the various denominations within Christianity. I don't think most people grasp what a huge range of beliefs there are within the Christian Church- if you go from a Baptist Church, to a Calvinist Church, to a Methodist Church, to a Catholic Church, the differences are striking, almost as much as changing to an entirely different religion like Judaism or Hinduism.

 

I think it is important to try and visit churches from as many major denominations as possible, and to try and get to know them as well. In particular I am convinced that there needs to be a lot more visiting between Catholics and Protestants, you rarely see the two intermingling.

 

Ideally, everyone would be able to be in my shoes- as a professional church musician I have changed churches every three years of my life, but during those three years I became deeply entrenched in the church that I was at, as I attended every single Sunday without fail, and all major holidays. The change has enabled me to get to know a wide variety of faiths very well, much better than just dropping in one Sunday as a curious visitor.