Adults bathing w/kids--when does it become weird?

[Kumiko]

When I was 8, my cousin & I took a shower together (she was 18; we're both female). guess my question is--does this sound harmless or a little bit weird?

 

I don't remember that much about it. I remember her smiling while I washed her breasts, and also I remember pressing my crotch to her leg. I don't remember anything except those 2 images. I sort of wonder if there's not some sort of memory block going on (but also, I'm not sure I buy into the repressed memory thing--if something else really happened, I would remember)

 

There's a lot of stuff in my life that's consistent w/incest survivors--drug abuse, prostitution, depression, re-victimization (i had some minor abuse at age 10 and in late adolescence, ages 18-19)--I guess I'm wondering if what happened w/my cousin had anything to do w/all that.

 

And what is your take on repressed memories?

 

Thanks for reading.

[AwdreeHpburn]

Kumiko - welocme to ENA!!

 

I'm sorry for the trouble that brings you here....sounds scary.

 

I have a feeling more memories WILL come back to you and I suggest you find some professional help to deal with them. Find some one to talk to....

[Kumiko]

thanks for the welcome! This forum has proven very helpful and supportive already. I do have a therapist, but haven't mentioned this to her bc I feel sort of dumb doing so, like I'm making a big deal out of nothing.

[Lily04]

No, people talk about the stupidest stuff with counsellors!! honestly....if it's something on your mind (which it seems to be, if you made a post about it here), it is worth discussing.

 

However, there may be nothing to it. How would knowing help or not help you? Will it bring more pain to you to remember, or awareness, maybe clarify a few things? Would it help to talk with your cousin about it? To me, it does seem a bit weird that an 18-year-old would have a shower with an 8-year-old, esp. if those gestures were made (smiling, etc.)

 

I remember when I was young...maybe in kindgarten/gr.1, I suppose around 7 years old, I would play "house" with my neighbours in their garage. During this time we'd have 'sleep/nap' time and they'd make me undress and I forget exactly what would happen....I remember at least one of them fondling me, even a guy around my age although a few were in their pre-teenage or teenage years. They were exploring sex around that time I guess, although I didn't know what is was... I remember one of them baby-sitting me and trying to make moves on me...but a lot is blocked. I just have random images, things were clearer before, but i'm not sure if I blocked it out... or what happened. I remember feelings of uneasiness, of scrambling to get dressed quickly when the parents would knock at the door, of feeling really scared when one would come to babysit and my parents asking what was wrong when I was so quiet playing on the swing. However, one thing is for certain that I didn't have sex with them and wasn't sexually abused by them otherwise I would definitely mention it.

 

But now.....it's like almost 20 years later. I don't feel I've really been affected by these experiences except for it possibly contributing to my painful early childhood experiences, and being a social retard throughout childhood, which was also contributed by other issues which I won't get into.

 

For me, I've moved on and although they may have meant something at the time it doesn't anymore. Other issues have overshadowed those, however, and I can't even remember exactly what happened. I am glad I changed neighborhoods though, and finding out exactly what happened wouldn't make much of a difference to me either way.

 

However, with your history of abuse, etc. it may make a difference to you, esp. to at least talk it over with someone. I am going to start seeing a psychiatrist regularly and may bring it up just to reference some of the things i went through when I was younger and how I had a messed up childhood....but I may not. I'm not really sure yet to be honest. If you think it is something important to you to figure out, then I would. I wouldn't not do it because of a fear of feeling stupid...this is evidently not a stupid issue.

[xoxMichellexox]

I dont think showering with ur cuz was wrong or has anything to do with ur problems, only if she or someone else did something else to you

[Ixtapa]

I really doubt that there would have been abuse in that situation, especially since you are both female. I used to take showers with my friends when I was a bit younger and we didnt think anything of it. For sure it is also a cultural thing...in some parts of the world, people take showers and sleep in the same bed without making that sexual connection.

It seems that these days (and especially in the US), nobody can make a move without someone pointing some sexual connotation. I dont know really. I dont think it is necessary to dig every single memory...might bring out more bad than good.

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

Well, I am an 18 year old female.

 

And I can say with utmost certainty that I would never take a shower with a female 8-year-old cousin. It seems extremely inappropriate and although of course I do not know of the background, washing her breasts etc...? I think there was something wrong there.

[BellaDonna]

I remember her smiling while I washed her breasts, and also I remember pressing my crotch to her leg

 

IMO, that is very inappropriate and not a typical, healthy adult-child interaction.

 

I think this is definitely something that you should talk to your counselor about. Don't be afriad. They are well trained to deal with issues like these.

 

 

BellaDonna

[Night Pumpkin]

There is little evidence to support the idea that surpressed memories are real.

 

Lots of families bath together. I still occasionally bathed with my sister when I was 12. Nothing perverted about it. Just family fun. Don't turn this into something it's not.

[dizzy21]

Kumiko. You picked a Japanese screen name are you of Japanese origin? Its much more common for family members of the same sex to bath together in Japan than in western counties. Family outings to public baths are quite common as well (although divided by sexes of course).

 

I'm sorry you've had a hard past, but I'd be cautious when pinning something as a repressed memory of abuse. There is not alot of research to suggest that repressed memories are infact truths. Go see a licensed clinical psychiatrist if you feel you need some help with these issues.

[rocio]

The bathing together was not weird. Not at all. I would have no problem showering with an 8-year old girl.

 

At my gym, there are naked women walking around the change room and in the shower together.. And these are adults and strangers.

 

However, there are clearly things that are innappropriate, whether you are in the shower or anywhere else. What you've described doesn't necessarily sound innappropriate.

[Hope75]

Kumiko. You picked a Japanese screen name are you of Japanese origin? Its much more common for family members of the same sex to bath together in Japan than in western counties. Family outings to public baths are quite common as well (although divided by sexes of course).

 

I'm sorry you've had a hard past, but I'd be cautious when pinning something as a repressed memory of abuse. There is not alot of research to suggest that repressed memories are infact truths. Go see a licensed clinical psychiatrist if you feel you need some help with these issues.

 

I would agree with dizzy that it's important to take culture into consideration when interpreting this- but also, Kumiko, how it made you feel. If you felt wrong or dirty or inappropriate, than the act itself may have been inappropriate.

[Kumiko]

No, I'm not Japanese--just liked the name. Sorry about the confusion.

 

I also appreciate all the responses--they pretty much confirm the two sides I keep swinging back and forth between in my head: "it was nothing" vs. "hmm, maybe I should look into this."

[Juliana]

Bathing together becomes abusive when it becomes sexualized. And still, it would have been acceptable, except for the tremendous age difference; children often play together in sexual ways, but she was an adult. According to child services here in Canada, it is the power imbalance, the lack of perception on the part of the child that they have an equal degree of control over what happens, that makes the situation abusive, and because of the age difference, the perception of power imbalance cannot be ignored or alleviated -- the older person is always in control.

 

Now, the fact that it was abusive does not necessarily mean that all your problems in life stem from this event. How we react to abuse has alot to do with the effect it has on us. When you think of this event, do you feel shame? Anger? Do you feel that if other people learned of it, you might be punished? Did you feel at the time that it would be alright for other family members to hear that you were washing her breasts, and pressing your genitals against her leg? The sexualization of children is not a cultural thing. In this case, your cousin was the adult, you were the child, and it was her responsibility to set the limits and maintain them without shaming you. An 18 year old woman having sexual contact with a child is wrong, damaging, and abusive.

 

What I find more interesting than this actual event is that you mention other abusive incidents but don't go into them. I don't know what was going on in your family, that an 18 year old would be okay with having sexual contact with a child, but I'm guessing this is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of misplaced boundaries and lack of respect for others feelings.

 

Write down all the events you can remember from your childhood that are like this: Something that you don't see other people doing, that you don't hear of other families doing with their children. Just write down what happened as exactly as you can, and don't try to "read back" the feelings you have now about that event -- try to focus completely on what happened then, what you said and did then, and how you felt then. Keep this written record for your own reference. Try as much as possible to get it into chronological order. If you have dreams or have odd events through the day while you're awake -- hearing snatches of conversations or a voice, for example -- or you see things, or smell things, that aren't there, write them down too. Flashbacks can come in many forms.

 

From what you have written, I think it's entirely possible that you have repressed memories -- this is certainly the classic background to develop them -- but the solution to your emotional upset is not to just remember everything, it's to deal with the feelings you have about what happened. You do not need to know if other people think you were abused; you need to know if you do.

[BellaDonna]

Bathing together becomes abusive when it becomes sexualized

 

I agree with Juliana.

 

I don't think bathing together is inherently inappropriate. What I think is inappropriate is that an 8 year-old was touching and washing the 18 year-old's breasts and pressing her crotch on her leg.

 

Did others not read that part of the post?????

 

How is a child washing the breasts of an adult or having her private area involved appropriate or "normal" in any way shape or form?

 

The original poster also stated that she remembers this clearly- it was not a repressed memory (i.e. like the kind that is supposedly brought out in hynosis).

 

BellaDonna

[GQstatus]

I gotta agree with the others that think this is a little odd. I don't think it should matter at ALL that the 18 yr old was also female. If the 18 yr old was male, everyone would be screaming child molestation, so why should it be any different?

[Night Pumpkin]

Did she DELIBERATELY hold your crotch against her leg ?? Or was it an accident. In a small area like a shower, accidentally touching someone anywwhere is expected to happen...

 

I still think you are making a big deal out of nothing. Lots of people shower together in families, and wash each other. No big deal.

[Hope75]

My point was simply that in some cultures family members bathe together and wash each other, including breasts and genitals, in community bath houses, or at home, and it is not considered sexual.

 

So yes, as Juliana pointed out-- if it were sexualized it would be a problem- but bathing together and washing each other is not always considered that way.

 

As far as the child's crotch on the adult's leg- that could definitely be sexual- but was this suggested or guided by the adult who knew better, or was it something an innocent 8 year old tried because it felt good, knowing no better?

 

I am not saying that this was the case in this situation- merely that it is acceptable and non sexual practice for some cultures.

 

I think how it made the OP feel is what is important here. And if she is American or of a culture where familial bathing and washing is not normal and acceptable behavior, that comes into play too.

[lucye]

I recently started EMDR--eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy for disturbing memories. You might want to give it a try if this memory is bothering you a lot. Your therapist could probably refer you to someone who does EMDR. Even though it might not be anything sexual, if you felt guilty about it (then or now), it might be affecting you. EMDR helps you process memories that have gotten stuck in your brain in a negative way; it lets you put these memories in perspective and gain some understanding of why they have affected you. It basically simulates REM sleep, which is when you really process things that happen in your life. If you have a distinct memory of the shower, it probably caused you some confusion that you never processed.

Even if you don't do EMDR, I highly recommend that you talk about it with your therapist. Even if your cousin didn't "abuse" you, the fact that you have this memory is significant.

Best wishes,

lucye

[Kumiko]

Thanks, lucye--I'm going to look into the EMDR thing. I'm glad it's working for you.