What is "FAIR" how do you split the stuff

[mike_chppr]

I tried to research others posts, but I can't seem to drill down on an answer. (We have no children) My wife wants a divorce. I told her today that I didn't, but I'm going along with what she wants. I'm torn between two extreems.

 

Cower in the corner: let her take almost everything.

 

OR

 

VINDICTIVE IN HER FACE: 50/50 even split!

 

Two problems. I make almost twice the amount of money that she does. I have college loans she doesn't so that buffers my income a bit. Her parents have given us almost everything like the bedroom furniture, entertainment center, cars. She is trying to use the concept of all that her family has given to us is really a "gift" to her. True in a sense, but not really.

 

I don't know what I really have tangibly in this marriage that is mine. I could say ohh I want this or that. But in reality most of the stuff that we have purchased has been for her. Like the $6,000 couch or the $900 kitchen table. or her new wardrobe from loosing all the weight that she did. As frugal as I am I could buy all that back in a few months. BUT, where are the gives and takes. She wants to split the bank accounts down the middle. Sell the house. The thing is. Her parents will take care of her. I'm getting a big bruisin here.

 

I don't want to go the legal route, and she doesn't understand why we just can't figure out what is fair amoungst ourselves. The reason is because I switch from VINDICTIVE to a coward. I'm asking for mediation. I'm getting the dog, which in some sense is huge, but how do you put a value on that. We paid $50 for him, but he is worth $500,000 to me and my mental sanity. But if I just take the dog and split the account 50/50 that isn't healthy for my mental sanity either.

 

I'm hurting and emotional and when I'm this way I tend to make very very poor decisions. I want to talk with her about it, but I get the cross armed "what response are you looking for?" or "I don't know how to respond to that!" My Anxiety is through the roof and I'm just peeking out of a deep depression that I've been struggling through the last few weeks.

 

I found a church today that I am going to attend, it is about an hour from where we currently live, but will be about 20 to 30 minutes from the apartment I just reserved. I don't really feel like I can get involved until I at least move out.

 

Her dad called me today and they are praying that we work this out. He wanted to hear my side of the story, and I fessed up to where and when things have gone afoul in our marriage, my part mostly, but also her part. We are going to see them for Christmas, but I'm taking possession of the apartment before then. She really wants out and to her there isn't even an inkling of a possibility that this can work out.

 

She can't TRUST me. I've LIED to her.

She doesn't KNOW me and she has never KNOWN me!

 

sting, Sting, StinG, STING!

[melrich]

Yes you should split 50/50 if you have been married more than 2 years. If you went to court that is the approximate ruling you would get anyway.

[mike_chppr]

The finances, or the stuff?

 

Because if we split the stuff according to what is hers and what is mine then it will be about 85/15.

 

So if you equate that into the finances then 50/50 isn't appropriate.

 

So if she gets the $6,000 custom made couch that was delivered this week, what should I get, 3,000 in finances or 6,000 in finances as I will not have future use of said couch. Also her parents gave "us" a new car while I was in Iraq. I think that could be argued as a gift to her even though we traded in the fair value of the other car that they had given us previously. I am driving the car she origionally brought into the marriage. So I'm driving a '95 Jeep and she is driving a 2005 jeep.

 

This is friggin maddening if that is even a word.

[melrich]

Oh yeah, I guess I was talking more about the finances 50/50 but material goods should be as close to as well.

 

When i went through it we each did a list. Then compared and traded until we got close. That works if you are still pretty friendly. If not, you may have to accept a bit less to save the hassle.

[Dako]

I'm in the middle of this dilemma right now.

My ex and I own a lot of stuff after 27 years.

 

I'm finding I prefer her to keep the memory triggers and I'm buying some new stuff for my house. We made a deal to do this fairly and skip the bloodsucking lawyers.

She packs some boxes, I pick them up, I ask for things, I return things, back and forth. It takes time, but we never kept score of possessions or income. We were married all the way.

So far, I'm only pissed that she got my fine old band saw, the four-car garage, ocean view and the 71 VW bus I restored from scratch. In return I got cashed out of the house and got a nice place in the hills.

 

Fighting over stuff will get you what? A couch that reminds you of fighting with her, a statue you bought together, a table you made love on... not always good souvenirs.

 

I wish you luck. It's a challenge.

I'll never marry again, so I can handle this crap just once.

[brando]

I didn t cower in the corner, but i tooka quick inventory of the stuff in the house and realized it is all replaceable. I got my stereo and my tools, except of course my drill which i have not had a use for since. So no big deal. I dont miss the stuff i let her have. Everyting is replaceable even people. So nothing to really sweat over.

[mike_chppr]

Dako, we have been the same way. fairly friendly. I'm just the one who has outbursts one way or the other. I'm tempted to do a houshold inventory all the way down to the 7 corn cob holder thingies. and then play from that list. You are right, I don't want the lamp that was the first time she turned on the lights when we made love. I don't want to fight. but I don't want to cower either. I'm moving from a 3,000 square foot house to an 800 square foot apartment.

 

The other thing. We bought our house 18 months ago. The apreciation is basically a negative after the work we have put into it, new floors new paint, new cabnets. And also the market has declined for example, if we bought for 350,000 we would need to sell for 370,000 to break even with closing costs and real estate agent fees. This still doesn't include the money we put into upgrades. We are on a 30 year fixed loan rate so we pay a higher amount. A lender will aprove to reduce our monthly payment from 2300 a month to 1100 a month. So do we refinance until the market improves. She is now saying she wants to move out of the area within a year from today's date. I am getting an apartment. I'm reserving it right now to sign the lease later this week. We cannot afford 2300/mo plus the rent on my apartment and her income can't pay for the house on her own. She could get roomates, but it is hard in the dead of winter to find people to move. If we refinance we could manage the house until we can sell it next spring maybe. We have to do a 6 month separation according to VA law. So I need to get into the apartment as soon as I can. Which is Dec 22nd. I knew I shouldn't have gotten a house.

 

Word to the wise, if you feel your marriage is a little bit on the rocks, dont buy a house!

[mike_chppr]

brando I think you are right. Is what I definitely need to do is set up a separate account now so that we can split the accounts from where they are now. Not have her hiding away money while I keep depositing. Not that she is doing that. And she wouldn't, but like I said, Cower/VENGEFUL

[Dako]

Mike,

Sorry you're taking such a hit on the house.

Our house had dropped in value, so I got half of much less that if she'd dumped me earlier. Hindsight and a softening market.

 

I can say the freedom I'm feeling is hard to put a price on.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

let me lead with the comment that if you DON'T agree how to divide stuff between yourselves, you will most likely end up giving MOST of your bank account to lawyers. so regardless of your anger or wanting to try to get even emotionally by holding out for more stuff, it is not in your best interest.

 

most divorces that end up in divorce court (which happens if you can't amicably negotiate a property settlement between the two of you), ranges from $25K on up to $100K+ or more depending on how bitter the divorce is and how much money you're willing to throw away on lawyers.

 

remember that even a CHEAP lousy lawyer costs $250/hour, and you as a couple will have to hire 2 lawyers, one for each of you, so that is $500/hour you are paying fighting over a couch, times upmty-ump hours that lawyers rack up during divorces. lawyers in fact COUNT on the truism that people are stupid when divorcing and will fight for 3 days over a shrimp fork, and her lawyer will be calling your lawyer to offer to exchange one shrimp fork for 2 butter knives. that's how lawyers all end up with yachts and mercedes, and you end up with a shrimp fork and not a dime left in your bank account.

 

so if you want to go the vindictive route, just go straight to shooting yourself in the foot. lots of people do, and when the dust settles, they are really upset when they end up broke, STILL divorced, and STILL not feeling any better about it. and reduced to eating beans out of a can with a shrimp fork or a butter knife.

 

after you give all your money to lawyers, the judge is just going to do what you and your wife could do in one day... tally up all your assets, split them 50/50 based on *current* value, not purchase price...

 

and it you go to court, it will be up to the judge to decide who gets what, so you totally lose control of EVERYTHING and are totally at the judge's mercy... so if your wife can convince the judge you're more a jerk than she is, she may end up with the dog after all...

 

so PUHLEEEEASE, don't confuse anger and emotional issues with assets...

 

dividing assets is easier than it looks if you take the desire to get even (or get better than even) out of the equation... for example, she wants all the furniture? fine give all of it to her and then you get the NEW Jeep and she takes the clunker... split the cash 50/50, and take your freedom and get an apt. and buy some nice leather couch and big screen TV with the money rather than using the money to make a payment on a lawyer's yacht... do you really care about that couch anyway? it will probably only remind you of her, and in a year, you'll be calling Good Will to have them come haul it off anyway.

 

re: the house, is there any equity in it after a 18 months in a de-escalating market... re-financing now is a BAD idea because the market may fall even further, don't count on it rising in spring. instead, why not have her refinance it with your name OFF the note and deed, have her parents co-sign if they buy her stuff... have an appraiser do a fair market analysis, and if there's any equity at all, have her parents cough up half to buy you out... or take more cash out of the bank account...

 

i'd definitely would NOT move out til you have that house issue resolved... her living there gives her leverage in terms of keeping it, and she could get a temporary order to make you pay half until your divorce clears, which coudl be a long time if she decides NOT to sign a settlement agreement with your voluntarily. as long as your name is on the mortgage, you a legally responsible for half, so don't count on her saying she'll leave in a year, that could change and she could dig in for the duration... so PLEASE try to cut all ties and settle all property ASAP, don't extend it with refinancing... that is a potential HUGE risk for you if that house goes upside/down and market prices keep dropping while she's in it and you're not...

 

in other words, don't equate getting even or getting what is 'fair' with assets. it never works, and divorce lawyers get rich off of people who confuse the two...

 

best of luck, de-escalate and prosper!

[Scout]

Wow...BeStrongBeHappy, I think everyone in this poster's situation should read your post! That was outstanding!!

 

And I laughed out loud at my PC reading the shrimp fork saga...

[mike_chppr]

BeStrongBeHappy,

 

Thanks your perspective counts. We are trying to get ahold of our realtor, but I think he is out for Thanksgiving Holiday. He may know what is best. I sure don't right now. I knew when we bought that if we held for 5 years we would be OK. This otta teach me ..... Arggh.

[Dako]

Mike,

If it's any consolation, I regret not seeing it coming, too.

Marriage is a risky matter.

[mike_chppr]

Yea, but it is like those "Nationwide" comercials.

 

"Life comes at you fast!"

 

It kills me that I haven't even been back from Iraq for 90 days. I filled out the apartment application last night.

 

I have to get the paperwork from my Doctor regarding my perscribed "Emotional Support Animal" so that my dog can come with me and I'm also cronically depressed, right now is one of the lowest of lows that I have been in a long time. My pal has been there for me and I've cried lots of tears on him and he has given me tons of unconditional love.

 

The house thing needs to be settled quickly. I don't want to be strung along for the next six months or longer. after that it is looking like a date will be set for June 22nd.

 

After sleeping on it, or tossing and turning all night, I think once we split and spend the next month carrying boxes back and forth we will realize what is whos. I'm not attached to much more than the dog and maybe the kitchen table and my firearms. but everything else is just stuff.

[sonjam]

Wow Mike, let me be the one to say that I'm truly sorry you have to go through a divorce. It is never easy, and on top of all the emotional trouble you have to split your earthly possesions too. I've been there, in 2003 - after being married only 3 years to my cheating, lying highschool sweatheart. It's never fair, or simple, but if you try to do it in an amicable and civil way, it hurts less.

 

Good luck! and stay strong.

[mike_chppr]

So the house. Yes it is a declining market. We have a 30 year fixed loan. So one way or the other we have to determine how to make a fair split. This has to go in her name or mine. To be honest I don't think she could get approved to hold the house on her income. If her parents co-sign then maybe and that is still a "Huge" risk for her. If we sell now we will definitly take a loss. So if we take a loss then we split the responsibility of that loss 50/50. So here is the proposition.

 

First comes first. We have to figure out a fair value of the house today. And if there is a profit to be made how much is it. That gets split 50/50. Hence if there is a 10K profit, I would owe her 5K if I take on the house and she would owe me 5K if She takes on the house. Or we both sell, which could take months and a real financial hardship on us both.

 

So this next option. Does this sound fair.

We look at the value today. If there would be a loss from selling today, then she transfers the loan into my name at the 5 year ARM and walks away without owing a dime. I thereforeeee have taken all the risk and any future loss or profit lays on my feet. The agreement would be that she pays me rent equivalent to my 5 year ARM rate and she may get a roomate to assist her in doing so. When she decides to leave, I will be responsible for finding renters or selling the house at a time of my choosing. In her rental agreement there also has to be a clause regarding her damiging the house beyond normal wear and tear.

 

This sounds fair to me, and I am likewise willing to transfer the risk to her in the same manner however her parents would probably need to cosign and She may likely not be able to work with the market and wait out the slump. The risk that I am taking is that interest rates will rise astronomically, the market will continue to sour past the 2 year timeframe that I believe we are in. So in that I think that we will have a two year sour, one year stabilization and then over the next two years we will have a normal inflationary increase. This is the risk I take. I can then sell the house before the expiration of the ARM or pass the increase along to my tennants at the time.

 

We have to transfer this liability or rid ourselves of it. This is a huge risk to both of us right now.

 

Stocks I can figure out how to split over time. i.e. 10 shares now means 5 go to me and 5 go to her. If I don't want to sell her 5 shares, then I owe her the appropriate value at the time of her asking. I think she trusts me enough to ride these out to fruition, and she understands that I am making double the current average return on the market. However past performance doesn't preclude future failure. And the summer doldrums can be gut wrenching at times.

 

I don't know, does the house plan sound fair?

[Scout]

It kills me that I haven't even been back from Iraq for 90 days.

 

Sorry, man. This is a curveball at the worst possible time. If it's any small consolation, you do have support and concern here at eNotalone. You're gonna get through this.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Mike, i have a couple more suggestions for you...

 

first, i don't think it makes sense for you to take on the loan or full responsibility for the house, but then she is the one who continues to live there... you should be eliminating any ties, not continuing them, since divorces can start out amicable and blow up and get quite nasty, you just never know.

 

i am curious why is she insisting on staying in the house, and you have to move out when you have the dog? it makes more sense for you to stay in the house, especially if you have the larger income to support it and she can't. she is the one who initiated the divorce, and she should be the one to move to an apt. if she wants out right away.

 

i would suggest that if you can afford the house on your salary if you refinance, and she can't on her salary, refinance it in your name, get her off the deed, and SHE moves to an apt. and you stay in the house since it is your debt now.

 

when you refinance, the bank gets an appraisal, so you can give her her half of the profit (if there is any, or sign a note for it), but if there is a loss, you can get her to sign a note owing you, or take more cash in the divorce, or just forgive the difference she would owe you if you are going to hold a while and get a profit eventually... that way you are not throwing money away on rent, and your dog still has a home rather than an apt. that doesn't sound dog-friendly.

 

the reason i say it is not good to let her rent back is there is always a possibility that she will get a boyfriend (or has one hidden from you now) and that as soon as you are out, he moves in... i have seen that happen, where the new boyfriend/girlfriend moves right in and encourages the spouse to take their former husband/wife to the cleaners and NOT settle amicably, but go for the most money possible.... if she has a lease, you can't really get him out until the lease expires and you get them both out.

 

the other problem is that she could be in the house and just stop paying rent at all and continue to live there... evictions take a long time, usually 5 or 6 months, and she could be trashing the house while she's at it if she gets mad at you for some reason. you could write all kinds of stuff into the lease to try to protect yourself, but you would have to sue to recoup damages, and she can skip town, the state, declare bankruptcy etc., so it becomes nexto to impossible to recoup your damages, happens all the time. really renting back to her is NOT a good idea... either she takes full financial responsibility for the house and lives there, or you do and you live there.

 

i would be very suspicious if she attempted to get you to take financial responsibility for the house, but she gets to keep it, even temporarily... if there were kids involved, that would make sense, but otherwise no. if she has less income and can't afford it, then she better get used to living on her own income, and not have you subsidize her in a nice house anymore.

 

so whomever gets an asset in the divorce, should take immediate possession of the asset, and not leave the asset in the other parties hands after the divorce (or even during the separation before the divorce). so renting back to her really isn't a good idea for lots of reasons... she can rent anywhere, but it doesn't have to be on your nickel or in your house.

 

regarding the stocks, in a divorce, you don't actually have to sell anything... the brokerage house can legally just split it into two accounts, one in your name and one in hers at time of the divorce. so if there are five shares of a particular stock, she will get 2.5 in her account, and you will get 2.5, in your own account. so you don't have to make any sales or take any losses etc., just transfer ownership. it's kind of like rolling over an IRA, except it is ownership being split due to divorce.

 

once you have your divorce, you just submit the papers and the agreement to the brokerage, and they split everything for you, according to whatever the terms of the divorce agreement are, 50/50, or 60/40 or whatever. i'd call your brokerage to talk to them about it, but i'm pretty sure that's how it works.

 

again, the goal is to immediately separate everything, so there is no haggling in the future. you may be very trustworthy, but who knows how she will behave once the divorce is signed (or even before), and the whole point of divorce is to cut all ties, profits, debt, AND responsibilities between the two of you.

 

and it goes without saying that ALL of your decisions should be put in writing and notarized as part of a separation agreement submitted as part of a divorce. once you have agreed to how to split things, go to a lawyer and have them write up the separation agreement and the divorce papers...

[mike_chppr]

BeStrongBeHappy, You have a lot to say and a lot of it is wise. Here is the thing. I commute 2.5 to 3 hours a day. In the apartment that I am moving into I can cut that to 30 minutes on a bicycle.

 

You are right, she could trash the place or move in with a boyfriend, skip out on the rent, etc... But the fact still remains, we both have perfect credit. I know she intends to move out. If we sell, we kind of end up moving out at the same time. I take all my stuff, she takes all hers and the rest is for ME to haul out to the garbage or Goodwill. I'd much rather take what I think is mine, arrange for what I want and leave it up to her. I'm fairly sure she will move out within 6 months. You are right, but I do know renters law as family work in the industry. I can give her the boot in I think it is 10 days after a missed payment. 30 days later the sherrif shows up with me to evict her. It ruins her perfect credit and much more. Yes it makes the divorce hostile, I don't want it to be that way. But kicking her out to fend for herself feels the same way, plus I feel an obligation to help her move. She has wronged me, I've wronged her, let us put it behind us and figure out how to do this amicably. I've sent the deposit on the apartment, I have a Dr's note for the dog as an emotional assistance animal which is all they need. The no pets place has to let my dog in. Yes we have a yard at the house, but we have a dog park right next to the apartment. And that means I have to go outside at least twice a day. I'm responsible for another being.

 

We are struggling to figure out what we have. We still haven't filed our 2005 taxes as I was in Iraq. I'm hoping that we can sell the house and break even. We have a meeting with the Realator and the Mortgage person on Thursday morning. I think this is where the numbers of acuality will set in. She doesn't want to sell at a loss and end up owing anything. If we can sell at a gain, I'm all for it. But I need to do the loan thing to juggle the finances at least for the next couple of months as now I'm responsible for rent as well as a mortgage. And when I move out, what portion am I entitled to pay to assist her. idealy we can lower the payment enough where she can pay it on her own, but i don't think they will approve her for a loan on her own. Maybe her parents will cosign, but maybe not. We might just be better off lowering the payment putting it in my name and finding renters right from the start, but then again, I feel obligated to help her move. I don't know why, but I just do, I feel like she is making a terrible mistake that she will regret for the rest of her life, but that may just be my way of rationalizing away the concept that this divorce is all about me.

[Dako]

Mike,

 

All you've written makes good sense to me. You've probably slept very little while trying on different ideas.

 

Getting away with your dog sounds healthy, and commuting long hours to a house that reminds you of her can only hurt you. When this plays out, I hope you're in a good spot, mentally and financially.

 

Please keep us updated.

[mike_chppr]

Well, I tried to talk with her about the options, I buy her out she buys me out, or we sell outright. If we can break even or gain we sell right now. If not then one of us is going to buy the other out. As I mentioned the above, I don't want to sell right now. I will feel an obligation to help her move, because when she moves that is when the stuff in the middle gets tossed, donated or otherwise. My preference right now is to buy her out. This way I don't feel guilty or worry about her having a place to go and how she gets there. She is still my best friend even though my coworkers and mother HATE her. To me there is 5 catagories, cars, house, bank accounts, and investments. Cars easy she gets the new one I get the old. House, if it is profitable by 10 Grand, my preference is still to hold out, and give her time to figure out what she is going to do in life. I can pay her 5 Grand over time and buy her out even. The point is, do we decide what that value is now, during the separation and put it in my name or do we decide what that value is later during the divorce when the value may be more or less than what it is now. The problem is we both agree we need to refinance now to lower our payment. The question is... Joint refinance, My name, or her name. I kind of like the idea of splitting the stuff slowly. Going through each room over the separation period and deciding who gets what. So the stuff can be split, I want that, no I want that, trade ya, and so on. Hence it may turn out that she gets 85% of the stuff and I get 15%, I don't care, Since I am moving out early I am obviously leaving behind what I do not want. So if I don't want it and she doesn't then we have an obligation together to find a way to get rid of it. She should not be dragging it to the curb all by her lonesome.

 

OK mind draft, while we were talking some guy called her cell phone and she politely said she would call him back. Then she became overcome with emotion about how this week was going to be tough and if she lashes out at me it isn't about us, but some situation that she can't tell me about because she doesn't think I can keep my mouth shut about it. She also says I can crush her right now. I don't see how I can since she holds all the power. There is some kind of interaction with a friend. that is causing her great emotional distress. What am I to think, someone was sexually asaulted, got pregnant, had an abortion, aquired an STD, somone cheated on someone else, I.. dunno. So anyway she is in the other room with the door closed she has the TV on and is having a conversation on the phone. I totally want to evesdrop I want to pry, but what is it worth. Yea we are talking about stuff, but there is a lot more going on in that head of hers and it isn't necessarily dealing about me or her work, but it is affecting both. How do you not pry, She said she may have to go away for a few days to work things out, to something along those lines. How does a guy interpret that in the midst of a separation. I told her I know she is hurting and we are getting a divorce, but if she needs a warm body to hug and hold onto I'm there for her. I hugged her for awhile until she was done. Left the room and closed the door.

 

I feel like I've been cheated on, but in reality I want to believe her words that I haven't. I don't want to know. I just don't.

 

It is my issue that I have to deal with the fact that she leaves to spend the night at friends, but I cannot imagine crashing at my friends pad as much as she is doing. I am angry that she is not spending this time with me trying to work on us splitting or whatever. Should I steal her phone and write down her address book, incoming and outgoing calls etc... Should I try to eavesdrop or is this the panic. fear of the unknown. Are these natural responses or am I loosing it. I'm going crazy, I just know it.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Look my friend, i hate to say this, but is it possible she had an affair while you were in Iraq? people do NOT sneak around like that hiding phone calls and moody about everything if it is only a friend she is concerned about... if she says you can 'crush her' right now, maybe its because she's commiting adultery, and if you can prove it, it gives you leverage in a divorce... and maybe she feels guilty, but not ready to own up to an affair because she doesn't want to deal with the emotional fallout...

 

btw, Virginia is a 'fault' state, so if she's at fault in the divorce (i.e., adultery), it does give you a bit of leverage in court... but better just to settle on your own because of the legal costs etc.

 

could she still be involved in the affair, or maybe he is trying to dump her, or fighting with her about who knows what?? and sleeping at friends, or is she sleeping at boyfriends house?? really sounds suspicious to me...

 

this is why i say it is best to split the assets cleanly, right away, no looking back, no ties. if you really want to know what she is up to, very easy to hire a private detective to find out... you don't want that boyfriend moving into the house either after your leave... i think you'd really feel even more angry and used then...

 

but at this point, it sounds over, one way or another, so i'd hammer out a separation agreement and get it in writing, and don't refinance with her jointly... lots of people take financial hits selling houses in a divorce, but you get your life back, and a fresh start.

[mike_chppr]

It is very possible. I feel like it is on the tip of her tongue and she just wants to spill it and get it over with. I'm going to talk with my doctor about getting the full battery of tests to get me checked for STDs. I really don't want to know, I don't know how I will act, I remember on the phone when I was in Iraq, she fessed up to some guy kissing her, she said she withdrew and left the guy hanging, but who knows. Maybe that was to test my jealousy factor. I went nuts for a few days with rageful jealousy. I just have to seal in my emotions that I have the rest of my life to live with myself and she has the rest of her life to live hers out. I actually don't think she would tell me as if it got to her parents she would be crushed, she is from a very religious family with a very high standards of values that they "apparently" live up to. She has a lot of fear of disappointing her father. "a lot" it is really "HUGE!"

 

Yes, I totally want to get a clean split. It is not going to happen overnight nor probably by the time I move out. I understand people taking hits especially over a house.

 

My "spidey" sense is up on edge just thinking about it. I haven't been able to turn it off since returning. And this issue really gets me going. I keep telling myself in my head that if she starts to blurt anything that sounds like a confession, I need to hush her and tell her to text it to me or tell me over the phone. I cannot be crushed with this kind of emotional betrayal to my face.

 

I'm not going to refinance with her jointly. Either she buys me out or I buy her out. I'd like to do it with the separation agreement. This way the divorce is just sign the line.

 

I can use the Realtor for the rental agreement. They can draft one, and I'll take everything in to have JAG look it over. I still need to figure out how to use JAG as a resource. As a reservist, it isn't like I just walk into the guys office. And I'm not sure if we have access to the active duty JAG resources.

 

She is really emotional. Tonight she fixed dinner. Well heated a ready made thing in the oven. She acted on the phone like she was going to eat, but when I got home she said she has become sick to her stomach and she watched me eat 2/3 of my plate. Then she went upstairs and crawled into bed. She didn't go to work today. I think she stayed in bed for most of the day. But heck what do I know?

 

I'm just looking forward to Tuesday nights once I move. Then I can go hang out with some coworkers, I've been invited along and it will be great, tonight I had dog training so after I ate the dog and I went to class. We take his "Canine Good Citizen" Test in two weeks, he is the only dog in the class with a remote chance of passing the test. It sure would be nice to get that certificate. I could add that to the psyciatrist's apartment letter.

 

I was doing reasonably well today until I came home. I'm just sick to my stomach knowing that she is hiding something from me. It would kind of be nice to hire a PI and then if she is cheating I have something to hold over her head instead of play this back and forth I'll trade this for that kind of thing. In the end though I just want to be friends. She knows almost everything about me. I do care about her, and in my deepest of deeps I could forgive her if she had been adulterous.

 

I'm at the point now where even if she started pining for my affection or changed her mind all the sudden. I'm starting my new life! and it doesn't include her as a romantic partner. As far as I'm concerned I love her like a sister now. That is the kind of love that I will have for her always.

 

Can I sever ties and go NC on her, yea, but what does that prove. I can heal, maybe over a longer period of time by having contact with her. She doesn't control me anymore. By me not being able to call her, that limits my options, and is in a way a means of controlling me.

 

I'll have issues and hurts, but the fantastic side of life is I get to rediscover who I am. First starting with psychobabble and then experiencing life in the real world.

 

I talked to the pastor that married us and also did our pre-engagement/pre-marital counseling. He said he thought the way I was responding was healthy, and tracking right along with the grieving process. He says I will probably go through the grieving process once again when I move out but maybe less or more intense.

 

Once I move out I plan on taking the next 6 months to really work through the psychbabble issues. Try and figure out what I want and create healthy defense mechanisms. I don't want to get into another relationship like this one. I want to have several relationships and find likes and dislikes. I want to know what it is like to have chemistry and to fall in love. To be totally into one another. I want to share myself and be known, but first I have to discover who I am.

 

OK I'm off on a tangent.

 

I have the psycho appointment tomorrow. We'll see how it goes. I kind of want to keep my mouth shut and hear her questions. It seems that if I can walk out of there remembering her questions I have tons to work thru the next week.

 

I appreciate your input BSBH I know you think I should just dump the house. She is supposed to be talking this over with her family in regards to co-signing the loan if she wants to buy me out, but link removed showed DC as one of the top 10 "worst" places to buy right now.

 

It was either Peter Lynch or Warren Buffet that said buy when others are fearful and sell when others can't stop talking about it. That is kind of how I feel in regards to the house, plus just managing getting rid of all of our stuff will be a huge task to take on in the dead of winter. That is not something I'm looking forward to. This weekend I think I need to go buy boxes from Uhaul or something. Several guys from work said they would help me move. One even has a trailer. They think my wife is and Evil..... Devil, but She's not 100% evil, maybe just 98%. Dropping a bomb within 60 days of me coming back from Iraq, what was she thinking, she could have gotten herself killed trying a stunt like that! Talk about RISK... Sheesh!

 

I'm out for tonight.

[Dako]

Mike,

 

I just have to say you're handling this very well.

You've worked out a plan and kept to the high road, and with the obstacles you face, I'm sure you'll end up in a better situation while being proud of your actions.

 

My ex bought me out of the house and we're pretty good friends after 14 months. I had to rearrange my finances, start my life over and life is pretty good after a long year of adjustment. It takes time to divorce in a way that doesn't leak money at every turn. In some ways it's good to stay married on paper until the last minute to keep costs down for insurance and whatnot.

Our divorce got put off when my ex had cancer surgery, so we both agreed to cool it until she recovered.

 

I follow your posts in awe of your maturity and logic.

You've got a good head on your shoulders.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Mike you don't have to sell the house if the loss is too much, but the goal should probably be for one to buy out the other as the next best choice... you can look at how much down payment you both put in, and then balance that against the loss from the market as it is now... say if you both contributed $10K when you bought it, and the house would now only sell for what you put into it, i think it would be reasonable for you to get $5K from that downpayment back so you could buy a new house if you want on your own... yes, it is a very good time to buy now in the DC area, so maybe you could take that buyout cash and look for a nice smaller place for yourself.

 

the goal should be just to split the assets by the time of divorce, so that you can get a clean start, so everything doesn't need to get moved next week, just by the time of divorce.

 

if your name is still on the mortgage for that house, you cannot buy another house of your own until this is resolved though becuase you probably wouldn't qualify for the debt load. but if you still feel you need to own it jointly for a while and rent, that is OK too, but you have to have the deal spelled out very clearly in the property settlement divorce papers, i.e., the house will be rented by her for X dollars until X date then it goes on the market at a price determined by comparative market analysis by a realtor, then you split the proceeds 50/50... so as long as you have a firm business contract in hand at time of divorce that can be enforced for the house, that would be ok too...

 

i think it would be ideal if her parents would co-sign and you get your half of the downpayment back out, but if that's not possible, then talk to a divorce attorney to make sure that the way you are dealing with the house is in writing so that is no confusion as to what happens with it ultimately.

 

the thing you want to avoid is any effect her potential boyfriend might have in the future... once that relationship is out in the open, if you haven't got everything in writing, he could try to influence her to go for a bigger share of the assets etc. it unfortunately happens all the time, and he may not be a good guy... we already know he was someone willing to cheap with the wife of someone serving in Iraq, that's just low as a skunk... i hope this is not the case, but would not be surprized.

 

if she was kissing people and telling you about it while you were in Iraq that is really terrible... you had other things on your mind to deal with than her disloyalty... it does sound like it went beyond kissing too, especially if she is in a hurry to break up, probably to be with the other guy. if she has a very strong moral sense maybe it didn't go beyond a kiss, but now she wants out because she feels guilty and wants to be free to pursue the other relationship. the 'secret' she is hiding that she doesn't want you to spill is probably because she doesn't want her parents to know what she has done with another guy, if they are not the type of people to take adultery lightly...

 

i am really proud how maturely you are handling this! and it is great you are getting counseling to get adjusted and help you start your new life. too many people get stuck in bitterness and hatred, or a false hope for reconciliation, and counselling can really help to work through all those feelings and help you think clearly and recover more quickly.

 

btw, why don't you take pen and paper with you to write down the questions the counsellor wants you to think about... it is hard sometimes to remember everything you are told during those sessions, especially when emotionally exhausted and a bit depressed, which is the norm when one first starts separating in a divorce.

 

hang in there, it will get better!