Need advice-BF kids/love one/having trouble with other

[blackdiamond]

Kids are 7 and 11...both are girls. The oldest I am very close to, and she is just the sweetest, lovable, kindest hearted child. The 7 year old does have swings were she is just as sweet, but on the flip side and more consistantly, is rude.

 

I feel for her that her parents went through a divorce this past year and has a lot of adjusting. I can understand that, and I know it's been hard on her. BUT, her behavior has warrented a counseling session instigated by her mother. She is being cruel to her (mother) and sister, and my BF has been asked to go to this counseling session--and he refuses, stating that she is doing well in school and does well with him, so he disagrees saying that his youngest will think there is something wrong with her. I at first told him (when asked) that he should stand by his ex (AND mother of his child) and go, because saying there is nothing wrong is negating the issue between his ex and his daughter. He agreed at first, but when she got good remarks from her teachers he is now refusing to go.

 

Went over to his house last night with my two year old. She had the same flip flop attitude. At first nice, but got increasingly mean. My breaking point was when my two year old leaned her head against her and his daughter yelled to me, "Get her OFF of me!". And to tell you the truth, this isn't really unusual, but I'm having a hard time dealing with it.

 

I called my BF and told him something that this was bothering me. His response was to say I was taking things too personal and ended the relationship.

 

I can't help thinking this....how can he know that her behavior is affecting so many people, but because she isn't doing this directly to him or at school, he thinks there is no problem?

 

 

I also think........if he can't back up the mother of his child, how can I ever expect him to back me up?

 

Please....need advice or input from someone who knows what the hell is going on!

 

Thanks.

[avman]

This may be hard to hear but I think you are going to be better off that the relationship has ended.

 

I think there are many red flags here about his relationship (or lack thereof) with his children and his refusal to acknowledge problems. Refusal to go to the counseling session is ridiculous and I really wonder how much of these kinds of behaviors may have contributed to the end of his first marriage.

[itsallgrand]

Well, he ended the relationship so it doesn't matter anymore, does it.

 

Not trying to be mean. Just don't understand what you are trying to get from your post?

 

Do you want him back? It sounds like the relationship was jumped on too early. Recent divorce, new gf, kid issues, he is dealing with 2 women: the ex and you, each asking him to do this and that. Add your child to the mix: what a handful!

[blackdiamond]

No, I don't think you're trying to be mean, but I'm not detailing the relationship well and somewhat understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately.

 

His break ups are also his way of dealing with issues. He doesn't mean it and comes back later with regretful apologies. Always.

 

Please understand that he has been my best friend for a long time before we started dating, and like his daughter, I've been trying to take into account that they've both had a stressfull two years.

 

Like others in this forum, I'm just trying to figure out the dynamics and why things are happening the way they are. And either in this relationship or future ones, I'm just trying to learn and add to it that there are many variables.

 

BTW-I have four kids so not really a novice in that regard.

 

Please don't condemn me for asking. I think a lot of people ask for help that, from an objective point, may be obvious. I just think I need a little prodding here.

[itsallgrand]

Well, I apologize for being harsh and not asking for more info. Still wondering though....are you planning on taking him back, assuming he does come back?

 

What do you want?

 

Would you seek him out if he doesn't ask you back this time?

 

It does look, just from the info you provided, that he is not ready/able to be 100% in this relationship right now.

 

It is a confusing situation even from the outside. I can not imagine the turmoil and pressure he is facing. Those are a lot of people to try and account for day in and out. And some which contradict in interests.

 

I happen to disagree with avman, in that it is hard to tell if this man is not good in relationships in general or is simply a confused man! And perhaps he is torn between trying to do what is best for his child in his opinion and judgement and what the ex and also you are asking him to do.

 

If he is doing what he thinks is best for his kid, even if all of you disagree with it, it is hard for me to say that that is wrong. It would actually make me think better of the man - putting his kid first if even in his own mind.

 

Of course, you need to consider yourself and your kids as well. Does what this man has to offer meet your needs and values, and correspond with your judgement in raising kids?

 

Wow, i'm exhausted even thinking of this.

 

Best wishes. More replies from others will be sure to come. The more info you provide, the easier it will be for folks to give solid advice and support.

[blackdiamond]

Thank you for amending, due to my (i know) confusing situation..your post put me in tears as I felt misunderstood.

 

I never told him what to do with his youngest.......he asked me if he should go to the session (his ex and the counselor asked him to be present) and I said he should go for, if nothing else, as a united front with her mother. I thought that him refusing or telling his child that he wasn't going because he thought it was ridiculous was supportive and maybe instigating a whole bunch of issues regarding mother/daughter. I do respect someone putting their kids first, but I'm thinking his refusal to go to this session is because he thinks it's a person attack on his parenting.

 

My reasoning is that my kids and their father do our best to represent a united front........you don't want one playing off the other or using one against the other.

 

I don't think it's my place to ask him to do anything with his child, but when she's mistreating mine, I do think it's time for me to speak up.

I know, as a parent, that we are at times ultra-sensitive to critisicm towards one of our kids. I do take that into account, but I was supposed to go over there tonight and felt I should speak up about it just because it was bothering me. His oldest is upset by how she treats her, her mother is clearly bothered by how she treats her. Now her dad has been a stay-at-home dad for 12 years, but the fact that he isn't supportive of her mother is bothering me. I guess it's projection on my part.

 

BTW-I have my kids all week (except Fri/Sat) he has his kids every other week.

 

 

To answer your questions;

 

I've always taken him back. He's my friend, and I know he blows up and says things he doesn't mean.

 

However, no....I would not seek him out. I think how he reacts to conflicts is unreasonable.

 

Bit more info is in the thread........"shoot me in the head if I break NC"

 

OK.....

 

But, thanks you guys, for responding. I really need the feed back whether I like what is being said or not.](*,)

 

I really appreciate it.

[Daddy Bear]

i have a different way of looking at this than does avman regarding the character of your (ex-) bf; i hope that my comments will be of some use in furthering your understanding of this situation.

 

for me, this is all about loyalties. very young girls often favor their fathers, so it is no surprise that the 7-year-old feels bitterness toward her mother for the breakup, and toward her older sister for not taking their father's side.

 

from his point of view, i can see where a rational person might feel that since his daughter has no issue with him, his presense at a meeting focusing on her as the root of the acrimony would not be required any more that that of her teachers, and i think he is right in believing that her resentment may spread to include him if he were to participate. i se no reason why he should feel more loyalty toward his ex, with whom his relationship is over, than toward his daughter, who is going to be in his life for the foreseeable future.

 

this part may be harder to swallow, but i want to say it like i see it: his breaking things off with you may be due to his perception of a negativity from you in interaction with his younger daughter. i do see from your characterization of her in your post that this may be a possibility; however, only he knows for sure whether or not he holds such an opinion. if so, making a choice between the two of you would not be a happy moment, but it WOULD be a virtual foregone conclusion. please know that i am not accusing you of any wrongdoing; i am merely suggesting a reason for his action.

 

for what it may be worth, that is my 'quick and dirty' take on the family dynamic, based on my experience with five children and three divorces, and working with the limited information at hand regarding your own situation.

 

as to your future with him, it may be that no matter how much she is 'worked on', his daughter will never completely get over these ingrained feelings about her mother, nor accept you as a substitute--which is no doubt how she portrays you, whether you like it or not--and i predict the chances of a harmonious relationship at something less than 100% even if he changes his mind and gives it another try.

 

here's hoping i'm wrong. whatever becomes of this, i wish you happiness and good luck.

[jilligirl]

it doesn't seem like he would do well in a relationship right now.

 

his daughter might be having issues with YOU, and that could be a reason for his breaking up with you. and maybe the facts that he's got two girls already, one of which is going for therapy-- AT AGE SEVEN!, and you coming in with another kid is just too much for him to handle at the moment.

 

he's probably stressed out and can't juggle everything at once. he dropped his lowest priority, you, so that he can maybe pay more attention to his daughters, and especially the one with issues.

 

that's my take on it, but i could be dead off.

 

perhaps it is better off that you're not with him anymore. at this time in his life, he might be too unstable to devote his energy and time to a relationship.

[blackdiamond]

So many levels..you are very, very right. I think a parent should always choose a child over a girlfriend/boyfriend in an situation of acrimony.........especially at this age. If it was just me, I'd think it was just me. But, from what he tells me, it's gotten physical with the mother and sister (which she personally has told me). At first blew it off, because yeesh who hasn't gotten physical with a sibling!

 

 

 

But you know whats weird? Last night he thanked me. He said, "I know you have a special place in your heart for C (oldest), but no one would ever know that physically" (meaning I don't outwardly play favorites.) He said, "you are just as affectionate with S".

 

But kids are so smart and I know that she may have picked up on the closeness his oldest and I have. But, I do love them both. I don't hold a child going through a hard time against them. She's just a kid. But that doesn't mean I have to like her behaviour. Hell, I'd feel the same about my own.

 

But I strongly believe about parents presenting a united front. And I have to admit that I truly don't like that he's not doing that with his ex.

 

(added note-forget that he broke up.........he says that for effect)

 

 

 

Insight is great...thank you.

[Daddy Bear]

i agree with you in theory about a united front and have always tried to present one. in practice, however, it's sometimes difficult to do so when you and your ex have a fundamental disagreement of opinion.

 

the more of your posts i read, the more i realize what a level-headed person you are. i really do hope that everything works out.

[avman]

Just to clarify my point (and I'm totally fine with others disagreeing) I do not think it is right for a parent to ignore behavior just because their child "doesn't do it with them". I agree with you blackdiamond that it is important for both parents to present a united front and so he should be going to this counseling session to make sure he has a full understanding of what is happening. Clearly he should realize there is something going on with his daughter.

 

Also, for him to immediately end the relationship merely because you brought up a problem like this is a big red flag. Others can disagree, but to have that kind of a hair trigger response to a problem is very concerning to me. That is not conducive to a healthy relationship and that jumped out at me even before you said he does this repeatedly.

 

I still maintain you are better off without this guy but I do think SB and the others also have valuable insights on other possible reasons for this guys behavior. I think you did the right thing in speaking up about the situation.

[blackdiamond]

it doesn't seem like he would do well in a relationship right now.

 

his daughter might be having issues with YOU, and that could be a reason for his breaking up with you. and maybe the facts that he's got two girls already, one of which is going for therapy-- AT AGE SEVEN!, and you coming in with another kid is just too much for him to handle at the moment.

 

he's probably stressed out and can't juggle everything at once. he dropped his lowest priority, you, so that he can maybe pay more attention to his daughters, and especially the one with issues.

 

that's my take on it, but i could be dead off.

 

perhaps it is better off that you're not with him anymore. at this time in his life, he might be too unstable to devote his energy and time to a relationship.

 

No, I think you're dead on correct in you assertion that she has issues with me...I expect that, I said once that it would probably be hard for her to be too nice to me because she would feel she's somehow disrespecting her mother.

 

But, he knows she's been mean and has jumped on her when he even thinks that she's doing something that might be rude. For example, we went to a pumpkin patch thing and my youngest and she got face paintings, which I paid for. He said, "S did you thank BD?' She said sarcastically, "Thanks BD". Now I never let her know I paid.......it was like $2..no big deal. I have learned to not say anything to him about how she treats me......I'm an adult and can handle it. But with my own it's something different. I refuse to let my kids see someone be disrespectful to me or allow bad behavior towards them. That's why I had to say something. And I wasn't accusatory, just stated that it upset me.

 

And again, his break up means nothing. Power play on his part. I've become used to it.

[itsallgrand]

And again, his break up means nothing. Power play on his part. I've become used to it.

 

Honestly, this is what I see as the crux of the matter. Hence my intial post, which again I apologize for since it caused you distress. That was not my intent at all.

 

It is confusing to me how you can say"'his break up means nothing". If it is a power play, and I don't know if it is - it may be sincere even if he is poor on follow through....Getting used to power plays used against you is unacceptable.

At least, I think so.

 

I definetly think the break up needs addressing. At the least, acknowledgment.

 

tc

[blackdiamond]

Thank You......I could just assume that this is different parenting styles, but I think it accounts for a lot in other relationships as well.

 

Besides, a childs life doesn't only encompass their week with one parent, but how their weeks are with both. Both relationships are important and both shape who they are and will be. I went through a nasty divorce and know how confusing it can be for a child to be able to play one against another.

 

This point I stand firm. I was asked an opinion from him, and answered it honestly. I've been through it and can see where it hurts a kid down the road. And his inability to not follow up on this is disconserting.

 

From her POV....her mom makes her go to counselling, her dad tells her she doesn't need to,----to me, at least, his unwillingness to not go as a stance of indignation is piling

[blackdiamond]

Honestly, this is what I see as the crux of the matter. Hence my intial post, which again I apologize for since it caused you distress. That was not my intent at all.

 

It is confusing to me how you can say"'his break up means nothing". If it is a power play, and I don't know if it is - it may be sincere even if he is poor on follow through....Getting used to power plays used against you is unacceptable.

At least, I think so.

 

I definetly think the break up needs addressing. At the least, acknowledgment.

 

tc

 

I have to laugh, because all I can say is.....

 

 

You. are. so. right.

 

 

Not funny,but say funny.......a few weeks ago he broke up and said he never wanted to see or hear from me again. I went on a date and he found out.

 

I said, "well, you said you never wanted to see or hear from me again!"

 

He said, "Well, geez, I've said that before!"

 

Unfortunately, it's almost like your kids saying..."you're so mean!"--you know they don't mean it. Except at that moment.

 

 

God, pathetic.

[blackdiamond]

i agree with you in theory about a united front and have always tried to present one. in practice, however, it's sometimes difficult to do so when you and your ex have a fundamental disagreement of opinion.

 

the more of your posts i read, the more i realize what a level-headed person you are. i really do hope that everything works out.

 

 

Thank you, but god I wished my level-headed thinking manifested into something good!

 

In practice (united front), it can be difficult. I know his wife somewhat........she is a great person..very calm, logical, sweet, and has been very supportive of me, so I know for her to get to this point she is at the tip of frustration. He knows her better than I, so I would think this would impact his decision to go to this session a bit. I'm not getting the reluctance.

[Daddy Bear]

he might not be acting irresponsibly in this matter at all, at least in his own mind. one possible explanation for his reluctance could be that he is afraid of alienating her because at this point, with her not feeling close to her mother, he is her only real source of emotional support. remember, the divorce--the apparent cause of her inappropriate behavior--was not her fault. despite her tendency to act out, she does desperately need and deserve his sympathy and support.

 

as far as him breaking up with you and expecting you to still be there, that's something he needs to work on. if you do get back together, tell him that if he does that again, you will consider that it is permanent. hopefully, that will make him think twice before pulling that stunt on you any more.

[blackdiamond]

as far as him breaking up with you and expecting you to still be there, that's something he needs to work on. if you do get back together, tell him that if he does that again, you will consider that it is permanent. hopefully, that will make him think twice before pulling that stunt on you any more.

 

 

 

That is an excellent point. I can't even expound....great point. I feel stupid and guilty to not have thought of that. I know I've tried, and although I stand by my opinion on him going (to the session), this made some (theoretical) sense out of something I thought was nonsensical.

 

(Breaking up)-tried your suggestion. We were partners (in climbing) and hoped to salvage that. We'd even gone to couples counselling...and she said to stop using the 'abandonment card' w/me......that was in Feb. He only remembers what she said to me. Really, it's my fault for not following through.

[Daddy Bear]

We'd even gone to couples counselling...and she said to stop using the 'abandonment card' w/me......that was in Feb. He only remembers what she said to me. Really, it's my fault for not following through.

he'll likely continue to use this ploy for as long as it works. instead of kicking yourself for not following through in the past, just promise yourself that you'll be ready for it in the future.

[blackdiamond]

he'll likely continue to use this ploy for as long as it works. instead of kicking yourself for not following through in the past, just promise yourself that you'll be ready for it in the future.

 

SB-quoting the wrong post, but think you'll know what I mean....

 

I've been thinking a lot about what you said (he's her emotional support), and your statement has been reverberating a lot in my head. And I can't get it out of my head because your assertion has so much truth linked to it...

 

But, although in theory I agree, I've noticed a few things that have really bothered me in how he deals with issues.

 

One is that he tells her that he thinks she shouldn't go to counseling. He tells her that there is nothing 'wrong' with her. And he's right..I don't thing that there is anything 'wrong', but I would want to see that he addresses this relationship with her mother in a more conducive manner. Such as, maybe saying to her, "Your mom just wants to have a better relationship with you and is asking someone to help facilitate that (of course in kidspeak). I believe that by him cutting it down before it happens is not helping his daughter through this transition. Her mom clearly wants to have better insight into what her daughter is going through, and I do think her dad should help her. In all honesty, it (good relations with mother) really is helping him in the long run.

 

Her behavior is affecting his other relationships. One is his other daughter. His youngest got into trouble and C said to my quietly, "I'm kind of glad dad is making her stay in her room, because I have all these bruises on my legs because she kicks me". She is more docile and doesn't want to retaliate.

 

Per your and Allisgrands posts, I wrote an email last night saying that I was done with this (not his daughter, but unability to address opinions or grievences). He called and was upset that I had issues with his daughter (based on my phone call last night). But my child means a lot to me also. If I ignore someone hurting my childs feelings, what kind of mother does that make me? My opinion is that all problems need to be out in the open, and I need to be with someone who understands that kids are kids and more than likely their actions are a manifestation of whatever circumstances that effect them.

 

It's not personal, but does need to be addressed.

 

Just my brainstorming here.