GFTOW - the only real solution or not?

[heyduh]

After my breakup I spent a lot of time reading about relationships, breakup, pop-psychology, NLP etc etc ...

 

While I like the idea of NC, I feel it is still a very passive and submissive way to heal. One of the other ideas I came accross (to get over an ex) is to GFTOW, ie. go [removed by moderator] ten other women ...

 

I've tried this, and while I am not close to 10 yet, I do feel it to be a bigger self esteem boost than locking myself away from the ex in a state of NC. The thing with NC, it just seems unhealthy ... someone you loved and cared about for so many years, now just because they don't want to continue the romantic relationship, you want to go NC. Does that really boost your self esteem or are you kidding only yourself? The EX is going to know that you are avoiding them because you are wallowing in your pitiful misery

 

What GFTOW has done for me, I'm currently dating a couple of girls ... I'm not pinning over the ex like I used to ... in fact I'm being happy ... guess what? the other day I was driving down a street on a bright sunny day thinking about the date I was going to meet. I had to stop at the light, I look outside the window and my ex is there with her new beau waiting in line for movie tickets or something ... I smile at her and she smiles back. I blow her a cute kiss, give her a warm smile and drive away .. she giggles and smiles back at me ..

 

Now if I had been playing the NC game, I would probably have avoiding looking at her, or given her a 'stern' hello look .. but since I was happy, I was able to show her that I am happy, and to bring a smile to her face

 

guess what, the weekend she gives me a call just to say HI .. (after we've not talked for months) .. we talked like old friends. towards the end of our conv., it seemed like she didn't want me to get off the phone, but I said bye anyway ...

 

I think GFTOW is more likely to put you in a happy state and bring back that attractive side of you that your ex fell for in the first place

 

Now while GFTOW is probably extreme, I think the point is that you need to force yourself to get back out there and start dating again .. casually .. does not have to involve sleeping with 10 other women, but if you are in romantic casual relationships, you will get over your ex super quick and possibly even attract them back to you

 

thoughts?

[Siriana]

Hm, I don't agree with you.

Nc doesn't mean stopping your life and staying at home completely depressed. Nc means recognizing that relationship is over instead beeing friends with hidden agenda ( like hoping that you will get back together).

 

Nc is just a phrase you use when you want to explain to someone that life goes on - and if you're still hanging on to past you can't live in the present or attract someone in the future. You know, it applys to all the people who are still suffering and are in connection with their ex and their life consists of waiting their ex to call.

 

GFTOW is lausy idea because at the end of the day you can't run away from yourself or your feelings. That means start dating when you think you are ready - not to soon not to late. If you're still obsessed with your ex than you're a bad dating material.

Also until you're ready to date (without comparing your current dates to your ex, or hoping to reconsiliate while you're dating someone new...) there are other ways to boost your confidence. The most important thing is to live your life and have your days filled with activites.

[Clementine orange]

They are really comforting down at the STD clinic as well. Nothing spells "forget about your lost love and put your life into perspective" like incurable disease.

Lack of self-respect also gives you something to dwell on instead as well.

[river dog]

you will get over your ex super quick and possibly even attract them back to you

 

Are we talking about getting over your ex or attracting them back?

 

If the latter, it's weak, shallow and abusive. A player doesn't value women in the first place. This is their suggested "cure" for oneitis i.e. actually being in love with someone which is counterproductive when a player is busy collecting trophies.

 

So called "Alpha males", huh. I know plenty, they use drugs heavily and they all end up sleeping with the same women. They also lie chronically. Lowest self-esteem of the lot. Real alpha males can spot a player a mile away.

 

Why would you want them back if you are over them anyway? This can happen after a period of NC without the gymnastics. I have done it just by moving on with my life - the result is the same.

 

guess what, the weekend she gives me a call just to say HI .. (after we've not talked for months)

 

I thought you hadn't been out of contact?

[Dako]

Seems like it's working for you. I suppose that method would work especially well for someone who primarily misses sex.

 

My friend Greg was dumped about the time I was. He invited me to his favorite bar where he scored a new one every night. I declined, and during the past year, I don't envy him at all. He's more depressed and despondant than ever about what he really lost after his marriage ended.

Just one guy, and were all different.

[shellshocked]

"The first rule of fight club is you do not talk about fight club."

[heyduh]

got it!!!

 

 

 

 

"The first rule of fight club is you do not talk about fight club."

[tylercdurden2004]

The whole getting under another to get over your ex never worked for me. At least any lastig effects. I mean if you love the person its pretty irrelevant if you sleep with others on a pure physical level, that it will help you get over them.

 

The only time I see this working is if you have low self esteem and need reaffirmation that you are good.

[majord23]

The only time I see this working is if you have low self esteem and need reaffirmation that you are good.

 

Precisely.

 

There are websites full of guys who use the 'GFTOW' tactic to get over or prevent 'oneitis'.

If you read the posts, you'll actually see that (on the whole) the posters are men who are seeking validation - either from women, or from the 'seduction gurus' on the site.

 

As much as they try to project 'coolness', they still seek validation over and over and over again. Someone who's happy with themself doesn't seek validation from anyone, they're just themselves.

 

Spending hours learning how to 'act like an Alpha Male' without actually taking concrete steps to develop into someone who is comfortable in their own skin is pointless....it just encourages individuals to play a character.

 

GFTOW by all means if it helps, but beware of straying too far from the real you.

[Rainz]

Precisely.

 

There are websites full of guys who use the 'GFTOW' tactic to get over or prevent 'oneitis'.

If you read the posts, you'll actually see that (on the whole) the posters are men who are seeking validation - either from women, or from the 'seduction gurus' on the site.

 

As much as they try to project 'coolness', they still seek validation over and over and over again. Someone who's happy with themself doesn't seek validation from anyone, they're just themselves.

 

Spending hours learning how to 'act like an Alpha Male' without actually taking concrete steps to develop into someone who is comfortable in their own skin is pointless....it just encourages individuals to play a character.

 

GFTOW by all means if it helps, but beware of straying too far from the real you.

 

Agreed!

 

Not my style either. Not to say that meeting new guys once I feel ready to "put myself out there again" doesn't help etc.....however sexual relations are purely for commiteted relationships as far as my life goes.

[heyduh]

one of the points most of you are missing is by the time you've had an intimate relationship with ten (or x number of) other ladies, you'll realize that the ex wasn't the goddess you made her out to be ..

 

people who have been dumped tend to put the ex on a higher pedestal than they deserve ... if you've been in an LTR for many years with someone who you thought was the love of your life, they tend to become larger than life in your eyes ... it is sad that most of the "dumped" folk tend to wallow in misery for months on end with NC and what not. I just feel that didn't help me .. I tried the NC thing but it didn't make me happy ... so I started to date around, date casually .. and realized that once you have experienced several others prospects ... you'll finally believe that the ex was great, but not worth wasting your life (or many months of your life) in misery ...

 

i sure did have to force myself to go out on the first couple of dates .. but after a while i started enjoying myself and being happy

 

I feel better knowing that I can be genuinely happy seeing the ex and her bf .. because I feel happy about myself! and that is attractive to the ex, or to new love prospects or people in general ... being happy with myself will help me avoid playing desperate NC games, acting weird infront of the ex, our common friends, family etc ...

[tylercdurden2004]

Precisely.

 

There are websites full of guys who use the 'GFTOW' tactic to get over or prevent 'oneitis'.

If you read the posts, you'll actually see that (on the whole) the posters are men who are seeking validation - either from women, or from the 'seduction gurus' on the site.

 

As much as they try to project 'coolness', they still seek validation over and over and over again. Someone who's happy with themself doesn't seek validation from anyone, they're just themselves.

 

Spending hours learning how to 'act like an Alpha Male' without actually taking concrete steps to develop into someone who is comfortable in their own skin is pointless....it just encourages individuals to play a character.

 

GFTOW by all means if it helps, but beware of straying too far from the real you.

 

I certainly dont take issue with seduction gurus and the like or about being an alpha male. I think the whole point is to fake it until you make it which is true. Athletes use it all the time it is a type of self talk if you will.

 

My point is merely that sleeping with a girl doenst help me get over an ex. This si different than goign on dates with other girls. I totally think you should get there and date as soon as the core emotions die down enough. Dating is nothing more than meeting and getting to knwo a person and I think too many people out too muchstock in dating. As in this has to be the one. Thats what one-itus is.

 

Again for me having sex doesnt equate to love. These are two separate things so natually after a breakup is I am missing the love then sex will not replace it because these are two separate things.

[river dog]

These are two separate things so natually after a breakup is I am missing the love then sex will not replace it because these are two separate things.

 

Well said. I miss her cute messages last thing at night and first thing in the morning, every morning. Has one of these dates said to you "You are my sky"?

 

That was not sex or a conquest or self-affirming, that was a little love and it went a long way. I even miss her Spanish jealousy! In fact, I just plain miss her

[Rainz]

one of the points most of you are missing is by the time you've had an intimate relationship with ten (or x number of) other ladies, you'll realize that the ex wasn't the goddess you made her out to be ..

 

I don't think the point is being missed at all.

This can be achieved with NC also. Doing NC for yourself to regroup and find yourself again, get back to being you can lead you to that realisation.

 

it is sad that most of the "dumped" folk tend to wallow in misery for months on end with NC and what not. I just feel that didn't help me

..

 

Many of the people on here posting about their break ups have been very badly heartbroken and hurt by their exes, and are trying to heal from such destructive experiences.

Hence "wallowing in misery for months". Getting past that emotional trauma for a lot of people takes time of grieving. It isn't unusual for grieving to go on for months.

Not only that after being given such an emotional blow and still having such strong feelings for your ex, it's not at all uncommon for people to be that hurt and heartbroken that they just cannot find it in themselves to date or even be interested in meeting people.

 

I tried the NC thing but it didn't make me happy ... so I started to date around, date casually .. and realized that once you have experienced several others prospects ... you'll finally believe that the ex was great, but not worth wasting your life (or many months of your life) in misery ...

 

That's good that's what's worked for you if dating around is what you want to do. Not everyone is up for that.

I know the guys I've met lately interacting with them and talking to them so far they just end up making me miss my ex even more because they just don't pique my interest.

So for me that tells me that I'm not ready for dating right now. I need to continue focussing on me and doing NC. Not everyone is looking for a quick fix.

 

I do agree though that when you're genuinely happy, you project that and attract happiness back.

[kellbell]

Okay, I debated whether or not to post here but here it goes....

 

"While I like the idea of NC, I feel it is still a very passive and submissive way to heal."

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. NC is neither passive NOR submissive. IMO. NC is a very pro-active and an involved method of healing. The person is making conscious decisions on what to do. For example, the ex calls...does the person pick up or ignore the call. To me, picking up the phone IS submissive. Submitting to what feels good at that very moment. Choosing not to is NOT submissive and the person is looking out for his/her best interest in the long run. To me, the whole concept of making choices and acting upon those choices is VERY active and not submissive at all. I do not understand what is submissive about looking out for YOUR best interest and making a conscious decision to move on with one's life instead of doing what is right for the ex...i.e. picking up the phone.

 

Also, while doing NC, it is a perfect opportunity to make discoveries about oneself, such as what he or she will not tolerate in a next relationship, what he/she will do different next time. Also, during NC, it gives the person a chance to rekindle old friendships that may have fizzled, discover or re-discover hobbies. It is like an emotional-quest to me, a method to take one's life back OR start over. Again, I do not understand what is passive or submissive here.

 

I am under the impression you feel NC is a "do nothing" approach which can in turn make a persom feel it is submissive or passive. But that is not the case. So, to me, I feel you feel NC is way to get you ex back. It is not, it is to get YOURSELF back.

 

"I've tried this, and while I am not close to 10 yet, I do feel it to be a bigger self esteem boost than locking myself away from the ex in a state of NC.

 

You are hiding from the real issues here. I feel that in this way, you are not taking into consideration to what you contributed to the relationship's downfall. What you could have done different, what will you do different, what lessons have you learned here, what wisdom can you offer in the next relationship? You are NOT locking yourself away. You may be locking yourself away from your EX, but that is the whole point. This tatic you write about will only help for a short time, because you are getting the instant gratfication. Instant gratification can only work for so long, sooner or later, you are going have to take a step back and reflect on your mistakes and what can you change.

The thing with NC, it just seems unhealthy ... someone you loved and cared about for so many years, now just because they don't want to continue the romantic relationship, you want to go NC. Does that really boost your self esteem or are you kidding only yourself?

 

What is unhealthy is not taking a step back and deciding what you can take from this experience. I learned SO MUCH from my ex's, what I do not want, what I will do next time, what I will not tolerate. So, those experiences are blessings in digusies, to hopefully prepare me with strength, knowledge and wisdom for the RIGHT person. You cannot refelct anfd learn when you are hopelssly trying to win an ex back. Boosting self esteem is learning about yourself, being there for others, helping others, and being the best person you can be.

 

Break-up stink, no doubt about it. It hurts, it hurts like heck, but pain in many cases elicits change in us. I feel by having sex with mutiple people is a attempt to hide from those initial painful stages after a breakup, it is emotionally cutting corners.

 

The EX is going to know that you are avoiding them because you are re wallowing in your pitiful misery."

 

Okay, a few things here. Frankly, whom cares if an ex thinks that. One cannot control what others think, even if you are not wallowing in misery. Two, you have a choice, again, you can be pro-active here. You can stay at home and be miserable or you can take an active role in your healing and your recovery. To heck what others think, what only matters is what you think of yourself.

 

"What GFTOW has done for me, I'm currently dating a couple of girls ... I'm not pinning over the ex like I used to ... in fact I'm being happy ... guess what? the other day I was driving down a street on a bright sunny day thinking about the date I was going to meet. I had to stop at the light, I look outside the window and my ex is there with her new beau waiting in line for movie tickets or something ... I smile at her and she smiles back. I blow her a cute kiss, give her a warm smile and drive away .. she giggles and smiles back at me ..

 

Okay, cool ...what does this have to do with NC? Nc to me, would allow for this to happen, you are taking your power back, taking charge of your life instead of worrying about your ex, does not that make you happy?

 

Now if I had been playing the NC game, I would probably have avoiding looking at her, or given her a 'stern' hello look .. but since I was happy, I was able to show her that I am happy, and to bring a smile to her face"

 

I am not following you here. I am under the impression you feel NC is a tactic to get your ex back, it is not.

I see where are going with this whole GFTOW thing and on paper, it sounds cool but in reality, IMO is not. It seems it is a "quick fix" to get over something and we all know "qucik fixes" are not all what they are cracked up to be. Anything worth doing and doing right is going to take time. Usually the easiest options are the incorrect ones.

 

I truly hope you feel better soon.

[heyduh]

i'm not thinking of NC as a tactic to get an ex back nor am I thinking of NC as a tactic to do that.

 

I just feel like NC is running away from the pain of rejection.

 

Instead of NC tactics like avoiding your ex's calls, pretending like you don't want to hear about him/her or know what is going on thier lives, I feel that the quicker you get over it, learn what you can from it, and make use of the lessons to GFTOW and get back on the road to finding THE ONE, you will only be stuck in the past.

 

I know the F part of GFTOW sounds cheesy, maybe I should have worded my post differently ...

 

If I had to choose between the silly NC games of basically throwing out a person from my life who I claimed to love and care about so much .... versus getting over it, moving on and being happy ... and being happy with the people in my life ... including the EX! I'd choose the later. Anyday.

 

Yes, I would choose GFTOW over NC and pretending I don't care about the EX anymore because she decided that someone else was a better match for her ...

 

Unless it was an abusive/cheating relationship, I feel ex's could be some of the most important people in your lives .. probably very close friends somewhere down the line

 

I've seen many relationships break up where they remain very close friends for years after ... heck some of them even get back together after several years (let me reiterate, I'm not suggesting this as a get the ex back tactic) ... in fact, in my 30+ years of life, I've seen more break up relationships that continue to have a healthy relationship post break up THAN the kind where the dumpee goes into a whiny NC mode forever ... maybe thats easy for LDR or relationships where your SO is so out of your normal circle of friends/family ... but if you are like me who date within a certain social circle/community then NC is just going to make things awkward in the future

 

to summarize: getting over it and moving on ... not kidding yourself about it and BEING HAPPY with yourself and the people in your lives (including ex's) is really the way to go ... for me

[kellbell]

"to summarize: getting over it and moving on ... not kidding yourself about it and BEING HAPPY with yourself and the people in your lives (including ex's) is really the way to go ... for me"

 

Absolutely agree with this, and NC can allow for that. Also being happy with yourself does not necassarily mean sleeping with mutiple people, IMO.

 

"I just feel like NC is running away from the pain of rejection."

 

Well I just do not see how this is so but it is cool to have different opinions. To me, running away is not facing your actions or taking responsiblity for your life.

"If I had to choose between the silly NC games of basically throwing out a person from my life who I claimed to love and care about so much ."

 

But how is NC a game? How is it throwing out your ex? I personally do not want to be with a person whom does not want to be with me and if I was the dumper, well I would not expect anything more from my ex anyhow. I move on, moving on is part of no contact. I guess I am trying to understand your choice of words, not trying to be difficult.

[majord23]

Agree with tyler in that sleeping with someone else doesn't help me get over an ex, it actually makes it worse.

 

As for seduction gurus - I still believe that they are insecure within themselves. Sex is sex - simple as that. It doesn't matter who it is with, essentially it is the same if there are no emotions involved.

 

Guys (and girls) who have indiscriminant sex with numerous partners are seeking validation (in one way or another). Whether it is to prove their physical or psychological attraction - or whether it is to prove that their 'tactics' work, it is still validation seeking.

 

They often talk about avoiding 'supplication' - but surely changing one's appearance, personality or using canned routines in order to get someone into bed is 100% pure, uncut supplication. On the surface they will argue that it isn't - but in reality, that is *exactly* what it is.

[majord23]

I just feel like NC is running away from the pain of rejection.

Hmmmm.....

 

...the weekend she gives me a call just to say HI .. (after we've not talked for months)

 

Do you not think the 'not talked for months' might have also had something to do with your ability to keep yourself together?

[onayrb]

IMO: I would sum the whole of this thread up by saying that NC or dignified (polite) LC IS always the way to go to give yourself time/space/distance to think/grieve/heal/learn/recover/move on. You can do this with or without interacting sexually or otherwise with others. I have always found it a mixture - it is never clear cut. Initially, typically I feel too sick and darkly empty to contemplate interacting with anybody (apart from the object of my love, who I should not interact with). But then later on in the "process" I have met others who I may have had sex with (or not) and some would make me miss my ex more -and guess what, some have created enough of a spark, however small, that helped alleviate withdrawal symptoms from the ex.

 

I think you've got to be careful about hurting others on your path to recovery though. I know I've done this and should have been more open and considerate in many cases (must try harder on that one!)

[shellshocked]

They often talk about avoiding 'supplication' - but surely changing one's appearance, personality or using canned routines in order to get someone into bed is 100% pure, uncut supplication. On the surface they will argue that it isn't - but in reality, that is *exactly* what it is.

 

I think you're looking at this at the surface level instead of digging thru the layers to see what's really going on.

 

The majority of men (and I use the term "men" because it is men that mostly frequent the seduction sites and seek help from "the guru's") who go to the seduction sites for advice are nerdy, keyboard jockey's who have a REALLY hard time interacting socially...especially with women. Or men who have mediocre success with meeting women....or have just gotten back into the dating pool after a break up and need some help. So what these sites try to do is to litteraly P U S H these guys past their self-imposed limitations to help them meet women. So yes, it DOES sometimes mean having them change their appearance and clothes to be more attractive. Is THIS supplication? Don't we ALL try to look better to attract someone? And yes, it DOES sometimes mean changing their personality to push past shyness or social awkwardness in order to be more confident and thereforeeee more attractive. Wouldn't we ALL want to do this?

And "canned routines"... come on now.

Do you really believe that women are so dumb...so "Stepford Wive-ish" that

we're going to fall into a trance and sleep with Waldo (or Waldette) just because they do "the cube" routine on us???? Give me a break!

 

Isn't it more realistic to think that these "canned routines" just give these shy, scared, socially inept, quiet, sweet (whatever) people something to say, because it's hard to just walk up and make conversation with a stranger...

especially someone you may be interested in? So you put 10 "canned" conversation starters in their head to use until they become more comfortable talking to people...then, when they realize, "hey, this girl told me to get lost...and i didn't die. or this girl smiled and laughed at my joke, i'm not such a geek afterall." it will be easier for them in the future to just do it on their own.

 

I'm really good friends with one of these "seduction guru's" and we've talked numerous times about all of this. (He uses a totally different approach altogether, but that's beside the point).

 

But really people.

Do you really think there is a right combination of words you can use to "hypnotize" someone into sleeping with you if they DON'T WANT TO SLEEP WITH YOU?!?!

 

And the GFTOW.

Does it mean literally to go and have sex with 10 women (men)?

Maybe for some people it does. And who am I to morally judge anyone...

But maybe it also means that this. one. girl. that you're obsessing about is NOT such a special flower. That it's just an illusion. That there are 3 billion OTHER women out there, so if this one special flower doesn't see YOUR specialness......

 

go find one that does.

[majord23]

Good post, and there's some there that I agree with.

 

Having said that, in my experience there are just as many negatives to come from such sites.

Some of the philosophies that I have encountered that seemingly thread through the majority of the sites I have visited are thus:

 

- Women act on emotion, men use logic - don't attempt to argue with a woman using logic.

 

- Never buy a gift/do something 'sweet' for a woman unless it is a special occasion (birthday etc.) or unless it is as a 'reward' for her good behaviour. To do otherwise is to supplicate and lower your value.

 

- Women need drama, and so will create some where there is none. Do not buy into it, or validate her behaviour.

 

- If she is 'misbehaving', sarge (ie flirt, talk to women) in front of her to 'increase your value'.

 

- Tactics to overcome LMR (Last minute resistance) in order to coerce a woman into bed when she may be changing her mind at the last minute.

 

- Tactics to lure a girl away from her boyfriend

 

That's just to name a few....

 

So yes, they may very well provide a good basis for someone to increase their confidence in regards to interacting with the opposite sex but do they not also perpetuate stereotypes and behaviours that are outdated and, in some cases, just plain wrong?

 

And the whole 'secret society' thing is something that I personally find hilarious - it's like being back at school.

 

As with most sites, there are good and bad points promoted - I just find the whole 'atmosphere' sleazy and (on the whole) the tendency to objectify and pigeon-hole women small-minded.

 

Again though, you have raised some good points.

[river dog]

They make some strong, well founded accepted behavoural points - but those are the means. It is the end I question.

[shellshocked]

Having said that, in my experience there are just as many negatives to come from such sites.

 

agree.

and I think that BOTH "martians and venusians" try to come up with gameplans (strategies) in order to get some(one)thing they want.

 

Men seem to use seduction sites.

Women read "The Rules".

 

But I don't think it's entirely black and white.

 

Some of the philosophies that I have encountered that seemingly thread through the majority of the sites I have visited are thus:

 

- Women act on emotion, men use logic - don't attempt to argue with a woman using logic.

 

with this.

i both agree to a point....and disagree to a point.

i don't think you can generalize ANYTHING and say ALL women do this and ALL men do that.

 

But, think about the different communication patterns/styles of men and women.

When a woman tells a man she has a problem with something, immediately a man goes into "problem solving mode" and tries to give her ways to FIX the problem...alot of times this is NOT want a woman wants...

they don't want a solution or to be "told" what to do...they want to be heard and empathized with.

 

again...not black and white.

 

- Never buy a gift/do something 'sweet' for a woman unless it is a special occasion (birthday etc.) or unless it is as a 'reward' for her good behaviour. To do otherwise is to supplicate and lower your value.

 

i TOTALLY believe this to be true.

and i believe this is how ALL behaviour should be treated.

you DO NOT want to reward people for behaviour that you don't like..

or guess what? you will, in deed, be "training" people to treat you badly.

 

For instance, if I do a good job at work, i get a cash award with a memo telling me what the award is for. So this should make me associate what i did good at work with the check (and recognition) that i received. And i will hopefully keep up that behaviour to hopefully get rewarded one day again.

 

If my girlfriend see's that i had a hard day at work and she comes over to me and rubs my shoulders and then later in bed i cuddle with her and tell her how good that felt and thank her....that's rewarding her (making her feel good and appreciated) for something that i liked and hopefully she will do it again.

 

Now, if my gf yells at me on the phone...calls me a name and then hangs up on me....i'm going to NOT give her ANY of my attention...this is withdrawing something that she wants, so it's not rewarding her bad behaviour.

BUT...if i started calling her...saying please call me back...i love you so much...and i send her a dozen roses saying everything is my fault...THIS is rewarding her bad behaviour, so she'll soon learn that anytime she wants my attention all she needs to do is throw a fit on the phone and hang up on me.

 

- Women need drama, and so will create some where there is none. Do not buy into it, or validate her behaviour.

 

again...

see above.

do NOT validate the drama she caused by yelling and hanging up on me.

 

- If she is 'misbehaving', sarge (ie flirt, talk to women) in front of her to 'increase your value'.

 

"misbehaving"...

i don't like this word.

what kind of "misbehaving" was she doing?

maybe if SHE was flirting with someone else, then i would flirt with someone

too...to show her that it didn't bother me..

 

but agree....this is silly....and childish....and i don't like this...

 

- Tactics to overcome LMR (Last minute resistance) in order to coerce a woman into bed when she may be changing her mind at the last minute.

 

i think the way it's worded here makes it sound sleazier than it is.

 

if someone is "coercing" or "forcing" someone to have sex...then no two ways about it....IT'S WRONG!

 

but the way i understand it...it's something like, if someone is changing her mind, or playing games or whatever at the last minute...then leave her alone....

go watch tv....call a friend...play chess...and sometimes the person is like "hey what are you doing...i want this...why don't you want me anymore."

 

again...kind of a silly thing..

and seems to play on people's insecurities, but like i said in my previous post,

you can't SAY or DO anything to MAKE anyone sleep with you if they don't want to (not talking about forcibly making someone).

 

- Tactics to lure a girl away from her boyfriend

 

again...there's no way to "hypnotize" someone into leaving anyone.

you can't "make" them do it by using tactics.

 

That's just to name a few....

 

So yes, they may very well provide a good basis for someone to increase their confidence in regards to interacting with the opposite sex but do they not also perpetuate stereotypes and behaviours that are outdated and, in some cases, just plain wrong?

 

again.

it's a mars/venus thing.

 

i think it goes both ways.

 

SOME men use seduction sites.

SOME women use "the rules".

 

And the whole 'secret society' thing is something that I personally find hilarious - it's like being back at school.

 

AGREE!!!

but look at the age of some of these guys.

and ALOT of guys are making ALOT of money by inventing things like this.

people are paying THOUSANDS of dollars to go to "pickup workshops".

alot of it, i'm sad to say, is all about the $$.

 

As with most sites, there are good and bad points promoted - I just find the whole 'atmosphere' sleazy and (on the whole) the tendency to objectify and pigeon-hole women small-minded.

 

Again though, you have raised some good points.

 

Agree.

And you have some great points and thoughts on this subject as well.

 

Thanks for making me think...!

[tylercdurden2004]

 

i both agree to a point....and disagree to a point.

i don't think you can generalize ANYTHING and say ALL women do this and ALL men do that.

 

 

To point yes. But we all make generalizations based on experiences. WE ALL make generalizations ALL the time. Constantly.

 

It our way of filling in the gaps of information that occur with our imperfect sensory capabilities. Without generalizations you wouldnt be able to function as you would be over loaded with information. No one has time to "fully" try to understand every person they come into contact with.

 

Of course it goes without saying that not all women are loving, nurturing, mothers and not all guys meat headed, mechanically inclined, bad listeners. To me that goes without saying. But generalizations are about patterns, the odds if you will.