"God" does not love me

[Gecko]

I'm still pretty young to be making sense out of all of this (struggling to learn about myself/religion/spirituality right now) but I do have a few things to say... whether it's only for my own sake, I don't know.

 

I strongly believe that for every person there is a different collection of possible paths to 'happiness' or whatever else they ultimately seek in life. The key is to listen to the core being within yourself as you experience the outside world and the emotions within, and make natural decisions according to what you find.. and once mastered, could serve to illuminate each path that you encounter from then on. Investigating or connecting to outside sources (like religion, another person, etc.) could definitely help along the way, but ultimately it is oneself that must get to know his/her inner spirit.

 

One might or might not believe in a 'god' so to speak in conventional terms; that's fine as long as he/she stays true to themselves.

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

As for me, I'd like to believe that there is a greater spiritual force that flows through all of us and connects some of us in a way one might never be able to describe using words.. one might call it love. (as a reference )

 

I like to pay attention to all religions/belief systems and listen carefully for elements that are valuable to me or 'spark' my intuition.

 

One ethic I have always held on to tightly is to look at an argument or situation from all sides and this topic is one such situation... at the moment, I can agree with points made from all sides.

 

I'm thinking that a system such as meditation or journal keeping could help me to concentrate and answer some of these questions.. if not, that's ok, maybe it'll come to me later..

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

In the end it's important to never stop asking questions, unless a religion you've involved yourself with requires a higher level of faith in an outside force...

 

I choose to live my life according to my own principles and morals instead of reporting to a church of what I "should" report too. If there truly IS a God or an after life, I would hope that I would be judged not for going to church or reading the Bible, but for how I lived my life. And if not, that's a risk I am willing to take.

 

I LOVE that post

[Luck of the Irish]

to the prehistoric people, they were relying on hunting to survice, their drawings were mainly showing what they hunted on daily basis as to not strave to death and also had natural process such as child bearing. None in their drawings did it put animals as derivingf rom satan nor heaven, nor hell, none of it.

 

So you believe prehistoric cave drawings more than the Bible? If you get enlightenment from pictures of a stick figure hunting a buffalo, then more power to you.

[yeawutever]

I didn't say I believe in prehistoric carvings, I just stated what was found. Cavemens did not have any concept of supremem beings nor a serpent representing satan, nor heaven or hell. It had to be years later, when history could be written for the first time, even so it took a while for a prophet (who's really just an average human like we are) to come along with ideas on how to live along with his teachings, and the common people went along with it, with even questioning.

 

[Blured]

I didn't say I believe in prehistoric carvings, I just stated what was found. Cavemens did not have any concept of supremem beings nor a serpent representing satan, nor heaven or hell. It had to be years later, when history could be written for the first time, even so it took a while for a prophet (who's really just an average human like we are) to come along with ideas on how to live along with his teachings, and the common people went along with it, with even questioning.

 

First of all, if your talking about the bible it was a series of people, not just one prophet. However, the Jewish people already had the concept of God. Before the book of Genesis was written down, there was Issac, Jacob and Abraham. The belief in God was handed down through the Jewish people.

[MI_Shell]

God gave us choice he cannot force us to be good. Lucifer chose to idolise himself and be selfish. It is all about choice and the fact that we live in a fallen world. God allows people to be decieved if they choose the lie and to be decieved by religions that bring glory to man and not the Most High then they will face judgement too.

 

God will come back to judge the earth and send satan and all his cohorts to burn in hell for eternity. That is why Hell was created and the only reason God doesn't come back right now to bring an end to Hell on Earth is to try and give people the chance to repent and turn to him.

 

IT IS YOUR CHOICE You can't blame God

[CynicalGuitarist]

God gave us choice he cannot force us to be good. Lucifer chose to idolise himself and be selfish. It is all about choice and the fact that we live in a fallen world. God allows people to be decieved if they choose the lie and to be decieved by religions that bring glory to man and not the Most High then they will face judgement too.

 

God will come back to judge the earth and send satan and all his cohorts to burn in hell for eternity. That is why Hell was created and the only reason God doesn't come back right now to bring an end to Hell on Earth is to try and give people the chance to repent and turn to him.

 

IT IS YOUR CHOICE You can't blame God

Your first argument contradicts the fact that God is omni-everything like so many religious leaders proudly proclaim. How do I know he's not controlling the non-believers? Don't give me that ol "have faith" crap. Not to mention the fact that all these different sects of Christianity never seem to agree with eachother. If Christianity is THE true religion, why are there so many sects that disagree with eachother? Which way is the right way to heaven? Why are the unitarian christians treated like softies who are going to hell? Even members of these "sects" are betting money that they are right. Again, this is what confuses me: there are all these different fights and wars and contradictions and different beliefs that don't agree with eachother and people going crazy to try and find whats "good" in the world while constantly trying to prove whats evil... a "loving god" supposedly sees all this and does nothing to stop it. He can do it at any time, but I guess after creating everything in 6 days, your god-like powers begin to deteriorate a bit

 

I gotta admit, hell is quite the tool used by the religious elite. It's the perfect bedtime or punishment story for little children who eat too much sugar, listen to heavy metal, or scream and make disturbances in public when they don't get their way. If hell wasn't exaggerated, I'm sure the number of Christians would at least decline considerately. It's funny how god supposedly "loves each and every one of us" yet if you do not follow his doctrine or made a "bad choice" in spiritual belief, despite the life you've lived, he'll send you to a place of eternal suffering and pain. But he loves you. This is similar to a woman breaking up with her poor boyfriend, and while he's on the floor crying, she's saying "I still love you!" If you have a pet and watch him and when he doesn't show total love and belief of you, you find all these sick ways to torture him and end up killing him, you can plainly see the "love" for this poor animal is not love at all. George Carlin had something infamous to say about organized religion link removed

 

Have fun serving this "god", whoever it may be.

[MI_Shell]

It is important to avoid making assumptions about others if possible otherwise you treat the person like a stereotype.

 

I do not condone organised religion.

 

To accept that blindly is a mistake but to seek the truth is an essential plight of the soul.

 

If God did not allow people to choose between good and evil he would not have given us free will and would thereforeeee be a controlling God.

 

Religion is about controlling peoples minds to serve their purpose and a distraction from the real truth.

 

It can take hard work to find the truth and it is not necessarily dished up in a church.

[yeawutever]

First of all, if your talking about the bible it was a series of people, not just one prophet.

 

But that one person is the one who always makes a difference. It didn't started with a whole group of people saying "Ok this is this and that", etc... It began with one person and it spreaded depending on how persuasive that person was and the use of concrete words.

 

[yeawutever]

Snd by the way, one does not need a probphet to tell them how to live, you can live on your own and choose your own path without any religion nor super being, it makes no difference. Religion or not, you would still have to survive on your own if you wanna live.

[CynicalGuitarist]

It is important to avoid making assumptions about others if possible otherwise you treat the person like a stereotype.

 

I do not condone organised religion.

 

To accept that blindly is a mistake but to seek the truth is an essential plight of the soul.

 

If God did not allow people to choose between good and evil he would not have given us free will and would thereforeeee be a controlling God.

 

Religion is about controlling peoples minds to serve their purpose and a distraction from the real truth.

 

It can take hard work to find the truth and it is not necessarily dished up in a church.

 

Ok, thanks for at least clearing that up instead of leaving me confused. While the good/evil concept is very much sound when written on paper, it is very much relative when demonstrated. Kind of like the scientific concepts of general relativity and quantum mechanics clashing. There are so many people in the world, and nobody (and I mean nobody) seems to hold the same exact concept of good/evil. I don't believe or disbelieve in god... however I still do believe in a higher power... it's just the fact that there are so many different beliefs, dogmas, morals, principles, and yes, even religions which try to guide some light as to where we come from and/or where we're going. Have you ever heard the saying "All real wars are about religion. All non/real wars are for profit." This is where the church comes in... to try and manipulate this "spiritual identity" crisis to fit their own agenda. I don't care what religion/faith someone comes from (most of my friends are fundamentalist Christians or some other sect) but I say if you're going to worship... why go to a church? It did make me suspicious that supposedly "God needs your money" but if he were truly great, he would make that church stand with or without funds. Kinda reminds me of the Pope and his bullet-proof glass in public. Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's faith in action, folks!

[MI_Shell]

The idea of the church needing to take peoples money is out of line with what Jesus wanted, that is why he threw the money changers tables over in the temple. There is no need to go to a church to worship God you can just talk to him anywhere.

 

It is good to go with your instincts and if something does not feel right, eg organised churches, stay away.

 

Don't be put of because of so much deception in religions just ask God to lead you to Him and the Truth if that is what you want. It is a personal relationship that you can have between you and Him if you really decide that it is something that you want.

[Blured]

How do I know he's not controlling the non-believers?

Because you just thought that thought. Why would God want non-believers to not believe in him? Surely the greatest insult of all is to deny your very existence.

Don't give me that ol "have faith" crap. Not to mention the fact that all these different sects of Christianity never seem to agree with each other. If Christianity is THE true religion, why are there so many sects that disagree with each other?

Christianity isn't perfect. If it's made of humans, how can it be? There are people that try and manipulate and use the faith to make money and hurt people. Often in religious wars it's about power and hatred, it's nothing to do with God.

 

 

 

Again, this is what confuses me: there are all these different fights and wars and contradictions and different beliefs that don't agree with each other and people going crazy to try and find what's "good" in the world while constantly trying to prove what's evil... a "loving god" supposedly sees all this and does nothing to stop it. He can do it at any time, but I guess after creating everything in 6 days, your god-like powers begin to deteriorate a bit

Yes, he is a loving God. However, if he intervened whenever humanity had problems, how would we ever learn what is good and what's evil? You can't look at Christians and decide that if we behave badly then thereforeeee so does God. We make our own choices, why can't we live with the consequences?

 

I gotta admit, hell is quite the tool used by the religious elite. It's the perfect bedtime or punishment story for little children who eat too much sugar, listen to heavy metal, or scream and make disturbances in public when they don't get their way. If hell wasn't exaggerated, I'm sure the number of Christians would at least decline considerately. It's funny how god supposedly "loves each and every one of us" yet if you do not follow his doctrine or made a "bad choice" in spiritual belief, despite the life you've lived, he'll send you to a place of eternal suffering and pain. But he loves you. This is similar to a woman breaking up with her poor boyfriend, and while he's on the floor crying, she's saying "I still love you!" If you have a pet and watch him and when he doesn't show total love and belief of you, you find all these sick ways to torture him and end up killing him, you can plainly see the "love" for this poor animal is not love at all. George Carlin had something infamous to say about organized religion link removed

A woman with her poor boyfriend on the floor screaming "I love you!". What if he was lying? What if he had cheated on her? What if he was abusive? Humanity can't happily turn their back on God and expect everything to still turn out alright. As I said, surely the greatest insult of all is denying God's very existence. How can hell be exaggerated?! Hell is simply despair. It's mentioned throughout the bible (Old and new testament). It's the reason many Christians are so desperate to tell people about their faith. And why would any Christian be afraid of hell? If you don't believe in hell, why would it scare you?

[Caldus]

Certainly, if God did indeed exist, then he created you. If he created you, how, or more importantly, why, would we not love you so much that he would cause all of this? And certainly, we shouldn't try to blame external sources for our own misfortunes and pain.

[CynicalGuitarist]

Yeah, good question, why would God not want non-believers to believe in it? It supposedly created everything in the universe and you and I, so surely it created the disbelief of other people.

 

Where did I say I was mad at Christianity because it was imperfect? I'm not, I was just questioning the fact that there are so many different interpretations of what God is and where it came from and whatever, and all it does is leave humanity confused with incomplete answers to create more debate and confusions.

 

Where did I assume that since Christians are bad, God must be bad too? It has to do with the fact that people claim god is omni-everything. People never learn about what's good and what's evil anyways; even after horrible wars, famine, and other disasters, the line between good and evil is still blurred, and history repeats itself. Even Christians themselves don't agree with what good and evil is; it is largely there to try and justify what we do in life. Think about it.

 

How would it be an "insult" to deny God's existence? If so, this God chose these disbelievers and skeptics to be confused. Otherwise, he either a. doesn't care about his creation or b. isn't omni-everything like people claim. How is hell exaggerated? Ok, maybe not exaggerated, but like the rest of the "bible", twisted to try and manipulate others to their agenda. This has been a great tool in raping the native Americans of their lands, amongst other things. If God supposedly loves everything, explain the near-genocide of native Americans.

[MI_Shell]

Forget all the twisted religions just look to God. There is a hec of a lot of evil on this earth but it you turn to Him he can protect you and be a comforter.

 

He loves you that much he died for you so you don't have to go to hell and made himself a sacrifice in your place.

 

It isn't always easy to accept this love but we have nothing to lose to try.

[CynicalGuitarist]

I do believe in a god, but whether he "died" to rid the earth of sin is highly debated and ambiguous. I think it's just the fact that I'm confused of who this "God" is, and I must admit I still have a lot of thinking to do before I find any real sensical conclusion.

[doyathink]

Cg, One thing that has you so confused is the fact that you are turning to people for an explanation of who God is and what does he want out of me!

 

The bible is the only way we can learn who he is and how he wants us to live our lives. There is so much debate whether it has been changed through interpretation however, is that really an issue? He asks us to simply have faith! He will only judge you on what is given to you to learn from and if you don't understand something ask for clarity through prayer. How about the Native Americans and those who live in places where a bible isn't accessible? He is a just and loving God, he will not condemn someone to hell just because they didn't have the tools to learn his ways. They will be judged according to how they live their lives.

 

These people did and still do believe in a God and worship him the only way they know how, I believe they will be judged according to how faithful and commited they are to their God.

 

God....did not create religion! Man...created religion! In fact the bible does teach us not to follow a 'religion' but rather him and his teachings! This point is made because he knew religion causes confusion!

 

Freewill...He is not going to make anyone love him! He is giving you the option to either love him or hate him, there is no in between. He created us ultimately because he wanted love, to be loved! He wants to share his kingdom, Heaven with those who love him and give them the gift of eternal peace and joy.A place where there is no more pain and suffering. He wants us to love him but will not make you just as you can not make someone love you! God is perfect, humans are imperfect, we are the ones who have created this mess we live in and then scream to God that he is at fault for our misery.

 

Hell was created for lucifer!Lucifer was a "great" Archangel, Prince, and the anointed Cherub!. He decided to rebel against God and God cast him out of Heaven with the Angels who followed him. He was the first to sin and god did not like this. Those of us who choose to rebel will also spend eternity with him in hell.

I do believe he causes these natural disasters! God intended for us to live with him, thereforeeee our 'true' home is heaven while our life here on earth is only for a short trial period. Everyone has to die! Who knows why he decides to take some people more violently than others, the issue is that you are returning home for eternity. For a believer, earth is the only hell you will ever know, for others, this is the only Heaven you will only know!

 

I could really go on and on but the answers to your questions are in the bible and whether or not it has been re-written several times is not the issue, if you follow the only rules he has made available to you than that is all that you will be judged on! It really isn't that complicated, the gift of salvation is out there for anyone who wants it, all you have to do is receive him.

 

If you hate him, thats your choice! He has many who hate him, you wont be the first. If you would like to talk any time, pm me.

[CynicalGuitarist]

I don't "hate" god, I'm questioning it. The problem is, the bible claims that "god" is omni-everything... ok, in that case, he created the people and created their thoughts and chose certain people to have a disdain for him. If god is "omni-everything", it created lucifer, knew he was gonna rebel against "god", knew there would be that great "war" in heaven and fallen angels... This is kinda like how humans are... always creating an enemy even when you really could do a lot better off without one. How "godly" is that? If the standard concept of "god" is the tired and true one, then I say this god hasn't done a very good job now hasn't it? He creates people without encrypting any real explanation as to why they exist in the first place, watches peaceful people get killed and humiliated for their efforts in improving humanity, and makes nations of people confused over who this "god" really is. The bible is the word of god... and yet there are people who study it their whole lives without finding any real relevant answer. Hell, it's enough to make me go crazy, but does god care? God's sure done a bang-up job watching all these people go to war and twist his words... Hell, think about this: I read a part in this bible where he says he is a "jealous" god... wow, now THAT came out on left field! I've seen the arguments about why everyone should believe the bible, but with the off-kilter stories in there, I think the extra-terresrial/extra-dimensional/annunaki explanation to the bible and other religious writings makes a helluva lot more sense. I guess I should start volunteering myself to be abducted by aliens... I'd rather go with them than live on this god-forsaken hellhole of a planet. Oh, and "faith" is a cop-out... maybe I should have "faith" in the quantum-level possibility that a really attractive, really intelligent, really compatable Asian girl will fall head-over-heels for me just as much as I would her and I would FINALLY have a meaningful relationship with a significant other. Faith is there for when it get too painful and confusing to think things through.

[yeawutever]

All I can say to you CynicalGutarist is, if you'll still questioning him and whether he loves you or not or why people are killed, suicides, ect., do something yourself for the environment, give money to the poor (if you got enough that is), create a fundation against crime, terrorists, ect.

[CynicalGuitarist]

All I can say to you CynicalGutarist is, if you'll still questioning him and whether he loves you or not or why people are killed, suicides, ect., do something yourself for the environment, give money to the poor (if you got enough that is), create a fundation against crime, terrorists, ect.

I actually am very conscious of environmental issues (ever since I was very young) and ride my bike as opposed to driving on a regular basis, I do have homeless friends and help them out with some money where I can, and I want to start a band so I can express how I feel about the world. That's a major reason why the members of TooL are some of my heroes.

[xpress]

I do believe in a god, but whether he "died" to rid the earth of sin is highly debated and ambiguous. I think it's just the fact that I'm confused of who this "God" is, and I must admit I still have a lot of thinking to do before I find any real sensical conclusion.

 

You already have a good start, Guitarist, in that you are searching for God and that searching will not be in vain if you continue to seek Him. We all have that void within us that can only be filled with God and when we are being bombarded with deep longing, it confirms the depth of the journey we are on in life and not its 'random-ness'. Even Einstein realized this in his work...there are some questions which may not be answered to our complete satisfaction and when that happens, we are left to decide how to fill in the gaps. Some people call this 'faith', perhaps. I truly believe your genuine searching will be fruitful, Guitarist. Please don't give up because God will reward your deep longing to connect with Him. Just trust the journey.

[Spugly Fuglet]

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.

-- Richard Dawkins

 

Prove love for me I would like to see the evidence.

[talo]

CG, you sound like you are all seeing, all knowing You appear to 'see how it is' and 'know how it should be'. And yet you question. You try to understand.

 

Understanding is not concluding (either how it is, or how it should be). Understanding is not controlling. Understanding is not (necessarily) liking. Understanding is understanding (respecting, loving). Understanding, understands the difference between force and power.

 

I, for one, am pleased that you are not all powerful

[CynicalGuitarist]

CG, you sound like you are all seeing, all knowing You appear to 'see how it is' and 'know how it should be'. And yet you question. You try to understand.

 

Understanding is not concluding (either how it is, or how it should be). Understanding is not controlling. Understanding is not (necessarily) liking. Understanding is understanding (respecting, loving). Understanding, understands the difference between force and power.

 

I, for one, am pleased that you are not all powerful

I don't know if that was sarcasm, but that is far from the truth. I am pretty stupid in almost every way. I'm just asking questions and trying to make sense of this whole existential issue. Yeah, go ahead and tell me "stop thinking so hard!" but honestly, you should've told me when I was 10 years old and worrying about global warming. I'm wondering about all the different theories of our world and how we live. I'm trying to figure out how I fit into this puzzle called "life". Sorry if it seems like I'm an egotistical jerk... I'm just trying to figure things out.

[xpress]

Guitarist...people will make cruel judgements based on their own blindness and reluctance to ask the deep, difficult questions you are willing to labour over. And they will say unkind things to mask their own fears. I know it's difficult to take, but one must not let those things deter one from continuing on. If anything, it means you are on the right track!! (Good things are not easy to come by...remember what your Mother said! ) You are on a special journey which is yours individually. Why allow anyone to cut that short or interfere with your path? You are very lucky...you appear to be a bright, sensitive man. And please...nothing you've said so far implies in ANY way, shape or form that you are 'stupid'.

 

Everyone goes through this stage in different and varying degrees and if we are lucky to pay attention, the road will lead to a positive ending. Some people get sidetracked by distractions which cut them off from the journey and they become disensitized when they fill the void with the wrong things, whatever they may be. Or the overwhelming fear of even asking the questions you are asking just simply causes them to shut down and go off in other directions. You are so very brave...and I don't think you are at all alone. I remember this in my own youth and recall it was not an easy path...to feel everything so very deeply. But a wise person once said that one is not born this way accidentally. Think of it as having a precious gift which is of great value, so comes with its own consequential burden. You have a path to follow for a particular reason (not accidental) which will blossom to its conclusion. Embrace the journey because I know that it is for sure this Higher Power who has put this deep yearning within you.