Blured Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 First off, if God is so great, why are there so many different concepts of it? I would argue that there are many different concepts of God is proof that there is one; Each culture has more than one idea of a higher power/God(s). If there is an almighty loving god out there, why does it just put us here with no real explanation or guidance? What kind of explanation would you like? With the Christian God there was explanation in the form of Jesus and of course, the bible. Another thing that irks me is this concept of "hell". If God were all-loving, why even create a hell? I don't believe God is some all-loving Daddy in the sky. Though I believe God loves, I also believe God is holy. Holy means without fault, so thereforeeee humanity doing things wrong all the time separates God from us - He is without fault, we aren't. If everyone went to heaven, what would stop it becoming exactly like the life we live today? It is impossible to convince someone that God plays an active role in anyone's life until they whitness it themselves. Link to comment
AwdreeHpburn Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I like it all! Everything you said. You are a brillian man (most of the time) Link to comment
Scotcha Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I don't think God created evil. He did however give free will. God wants people to follow Him, to love Him, and there cannot be love without free will. Evil is a choice that people make. I also think that there are so many people in this world.. Of course there are different views of God. And even if you you don't read the Bible there is not a person on this planet without guidance. That part of you that lets you know what is right and what is wrong... You sound very bitter and very angry. Maybe even depressed. You may not agree with my beliefs and you don't have to but what is causing you to feel this way? I hope you feel better soon. Link to comment
AwdreeHpburn Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Thanks Scotcha - and good call. I don't know if the OP meant to turn this into a religious deabte or not, but I too, like you, hope he feels better soon. Link to comment
Luck of the Irish Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 There are actually answers to all these questions in the Bible. Why evil exists. Hell. Heaven. But if you don't believe, there's no point in bringing them up. Link to comment
yeawutever Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 There are actually answers to all these questions in the Bible. Why evil exists. Hell. Heaven. But if you don't believe, there's no point in bringing them up. How can one be sure the bible is 100% right, when written words can be made up or put into other interpretations. If what is stated on the bible is true then why don't scientist try doing observations on it, research on it??? Link to comment
FoxLocke Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 If you live in a world of doubt, you will always be a bitter person. Go to a church and ask how you can get to know God. You can't be a true critic until you've walked. Why are you so angry if you don't believe He exists? Completely disagree. I do concurr with Cynical Guitarist for the most part. Having doubt does not make you a bitter person. It is called growth. Going to church to "understand" God is not even feasible, seeing as the church tries to manipulate people into their point of view... I no longer believe in my religion(Christianity)for numerous reasons...None of it having to do with bitterness. I am somewhat bitter because I feel like I have been lied to; however, it is just a process I have to go through. I feel alot like the OP does. So, for the most part, I do agree. God, whomever he/she/it might be, is different for everyone...And that often makes me wonder whether or not God even exists? I am still open to the entire concept and possibility....But what if there is nothing? Would we be any less? I don't think so. As it is I still believe...I am just uncertain what I believe in. I don't want to care, but at the moment I live with a fundamentalist christian and I have to hear that B.S. every waking day. Originally Posted by Ailec1987 How can one be sure the bible is 100% right, when written words can be made up or put into other interpretations. If what is stated on the bible is true then why don't scientist try doing observations on it, research on it??? exactly. The bible has been rewritten and translated over and over again for thousands of years. Moreover, the Bible is metaphorical...Open to interpretation... If the idea of Salvation is SOOOOO dire why did he not make a clear cut path to the stairway to heaven? There are hundreds of religions, and everyone believes in their own religion wholeheartedly... Link to comment
Beyondthesea Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I believe also the bible has been rewritten more times than any other book known to man. Of course it's changed and been altered over time. Who knows what's true anymore? What you feel in your heart, and what you act out on Earth...that's the truth. Link to comment
Blured Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 How can one be sure the bible is 100% right, when written words can be made up or put into other interpretations. If what is stated on the bible is true then why don't scientist try doing observations on it, research on it??? Because the bible was written over thousands of years, from the dead sea scrolls, to the gospels, to Revelations. The best bit of proof however is that things in older texts predicted things that would happen in the later ones - Isaiah claiming things about the Messiah (He wouldn't have a human father, He'd never break a bone, He would be hated and rejected, and a discription of the crucifixion) hundreds of years before it happened. There isnt any scientific reasearch that can be done, however sources from the new testament have be confirmed by other sources around at the time, by Romans and Jews. Link to comment
Blured Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I believe also the bible has been rewritten more times than any other book known to man. Of course it's changed and been altered over time. Who knows what's true anymore? What you feel in your heart, and what you act out on Earth...that's the truth. The bible hasn't been rewritten at all, though it's been translated, it's always been straight from Aramaic. Infact at the end of the bible theres a warning to anyone that would try to rewrite it. Link to comment
Spugly Fuglet Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 The bible hasn't been rewritten at all, though it's been translated, it's always been straight from Aramaic. Infact at the end of the bible theres a warning to anyone that would try to rewrite it. But what if that was added in one of the rewrites? Link to comment
FoxLocke Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 a translation is a rewrite. And those people who did the rewrites were not above adding their own take on it.... For instance: The serpent in the garden was, initially, just a serpent. It wasn't until later that the serpent became satan in the garden of Eden. That is a very SIGNIFICANT rewrite. Link to comment
RayKay Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I am not going to get too much into this debate myself - as I follow the Dalai Lama's belief that "my religion is kindness" and I believe in spirtuality without religion, the power of human spirit, and the connection to our environment and the loved ones in our lives.....but did want to make another note on the issue of the tranlastion of the Bible and other documents. The Bible itself is a combination of selected texts that were assembled by a select group chosen to assemble them. If some texts were selected, it means others were also left out (like Mary Magdalene's papers). They were chosen to serve their own purposes at the time. There is thereforeeee an inherent bias in the Bible for that reason. All religious texts have been translated and interpreted through the centuries and as such are not immune to personal influence and beliefs. The Qu'Ran even now is only allowed to be interpreted by certain persons, however it often translated to suit specific purposes. This is for me a big reason why I don't believe in organized religion for myself. I choose to live my life according to my own principles and morals instead of reporting to a church of what I "should" report too. If there truly IS a God or an after life, I would hope that I would be judged not for going to church or reading the Bible, but for how I lived my life. And if not, that's a risk I am willing to take. Link to comment
yeawutever Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 If it went for thousands of years then the language had to evolve, thus some changes did took place. The fact that it's interpret in many different ways in varying countries makes it unreliable and unvalid also. Unrealible in the fact that its measures on testing the interpretations of the bibles (if done on an experiemental lab with similar conditions) won't produce similar results to those tested on different labs on other places of the world. It's unvalid in that the it doesn't measure what it's suppost to measure. Link to comment
Blured Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 a translation is a rewrite. And those people who did the rewrites were not above adding their own take on it.... For instance: The serpent in the garden was, initially, just a serpent. It wasn't until later that the serpent became satan in the garden of Eden. That is a very SIGNIFICANT rewrite. But what gain would they have from doing so? And the serpant was symbolic for satan, and it hasn't been changed in the text, it's just commonly known that the snake is satan. Link to comment
FoxLocke Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 No, the serpent was, originally, just a serpent. It is commonly known NOW(after the revision) that the serpent is Satan...But, originally, the serpent was just a serpent. What did they have to gain from it? Everything. The hell doctorine is the reason so many people converted and fled to the church. Satan has evolved over time. He wasn't even a factor in the bible, until the new testament... Don't want to get into a huge debate about it. So I'll just leave it at, I don't believe in hell and satan. I still believe in God though...whoever that might be. Link to comment
yeawutever Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 All animals were just animals and come to think of it, to the prehistoric people, they were relying on hunting to survice, their drawings were mainly showing what they hunted on daily basis as to not strave to death and also had natural process such as child bearing. None in their drawings did it put animals as derivingf rom satan nor heaven, nor hell, none of it. It started with a prophet's idea on how life should be led and controlled and what should be used as symbols, before that there was none. Like Fox, I'm gonna end up with this now as I have no particular religion and do not believe in supreme beings. Link to comment
curbie Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 How can one be sure the bible is 100% right, when written words can be made up or put into other interpretations. If what is stated on the bible is true then why don't scientist try doing observations on it, research on it??? Because that's why it is called FAITH! Link to comment
yeawutever Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I also have faith and it doesn't mean I have to read a bible nor believe in god. Not believing is also a type of faith. Link to comment
Blured Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 No, the serpent was, originally, just a serpent. It is commonly known NOW(after the revision) that the serpent is Satan...But, originally, the serpent was just a serpent. What did they have to gain from it? Everything. The hell doctorine is the reason so many people converted and fled to the church. Satan has evolved over time. He wasn't even a factor in the bible, until the new testament... Don't want to get into a huge debate about it. So I'll just leave it at, I don't believe in hell and satan. I still believe in God though...whoever that might be. According to the bible, it is just a serpant. So nothing was changed. The hell doctorine was always in the bible, however, religious leaders around when the bible was only translated into latin exaggerated what was actually said to keep people in line. The concept of 'hell' is all over the bible, mainly in the book of Revelations - To add the hell doctorine if it didn't exist would mean to add a whole new book. Considering that people were executed for wanting the bible to be translated into other languages than latin and aramaic, it's non-sensical that it would be changed. Link to comment
iceberg21 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Because that's why it is called FAITH! Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence. -- Richard Dawkins Link to comment
Blured Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence. -- Richard Dawkins Richard Dawkins is a very interesting man. I don't know if any if any British people here saw his series of documentries on Channel 4 a few months ago. He set out to prove that religion is evil. Never once did he mention all the religious charities in the world. New morals like 'Love thy enemy'. Or, the communist countries like North Korea that are murdering anyone claiming to have any belief system. He's a very interesting man. Link to comment
CynicalGuitarist Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Wow, it is great (even if I violated some regulations of this board) to see my topic explode like this... and most of you make some very pertinent points. To clear the record, I don't completely believe or disbelieve the bible. Since it's so vague and written in away which most scholars don't even understand it, for all I know Jesus could be an extra-terresrial or extra-dimensional being. Not the most popular idea ever conceived, but with some of the stories of "angels" and Jesus' ascension to heaven and Ezekiel's wheel and Noah's Ark are so open to interpretation... especially with some of the outlandish, unrealistic happenings recorded... it does make me wonder. If that's the case, the next time I find a UFO voluntary abduction group, I'll drive to their next meeting and be at the top of the building shouting "I beg thee, O lord, take me now! Take me away from this stupidity, this madness, this treachery!" and the like. Speaking of which, in a sense, the UFO idea makes a helluva lot more sense than a huge ark filled with 2 of every animal and a whole vat of poisonous feces. Link to comment
Beyondthesea Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Personally, I've evaluated all the evidence and still believe in God. Some of the world's greatest scientists are the strongest believers in God, because they see there is NOT a way to evaluate everything. Link to comment
Blured Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Good to see your so open minded.. I think.. Link to comment
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