Are all lesbian butches?

[ScaredFawn]

I know you all are gonna say, of course not! There are many feminine lesbian who have feminine partners! But I cant seem to find any. Me and my gf have long hair, wear girly clothes and are womanly. I have been having a very hard time lately with my identity as a lesbian, I also think I might be bisexual. And that just confirms beliefs on the subject: All LESBIAN women are butches and dykes and bisexuals are pretty and feminine. I just need real bad to identify with a group of people but after meeting 5 shaved head women with the Im tough attitude, saggy tshirts and bermudas, I just feel like, thats it, Im straight. I dont belong with that group of people, its not me. Im sorry if I sound stereotypical and judgemental and I got nothing against butches but its not me, and I desperately need to find people like me. Watching The L Word makes me feel like there are feminine women who like feminine women, but after finding out the whole cast except Leisha Hailey is straight, once again I feel like I dont belong. Has anyone here ever felt like this?

[annie24]

funny, I just had this conversation a few days ago with some people. My old roommate was also a very pretty lesbian, long hair, cute clothes, etc. And, she was also dating another girly lesbian. It was funny, she would say, "I don't want butch! I want breasts, and long hair! If I wanted butch, I would date a man!"

 

So, yes, they are out there.

[agent1607307371]

Well, i'm bisexual and the only way you'd see me as feminine is from a great distance and squinting.

 

And stop putting any weight in what the media puts out, it will only make you miserable.

 

I smypathise with your need to belong to a group but as I've never found a group that I've felt I belonged with I can't really help. I'm not even sure such a thing exists.

[Luck of the Irish]

Well, i'm bisexual and the only way you'd see me as feminine is from a great distance and squinting.

 

Creepy. You don't have to tell me to keep a great distance twice!

[itsallgrand]

Well, c'mon, the L word is entertaining but it is a tv show. haha

 

I think you're making things too frikking complicated. Just like who like and create your own group. Your own group can be; lover(s), friends, family, whoever is important to you.

 

As for this other crap; live and learn. I remember one time there was a rather butchy woman who would flirt with me. I hate using the 'words' but she was butch. She shaved her head or kept it mighty short, no makeup (maybe not even deodorant lol), clothes looked like from the bottom of a man's summer hamper.

Anyways......I was totally shocked bc I found myself attracted to her. It threw me for a loop and made me go "My god. Maybe i'm a lesbian". This freaked me out! haha. I've always liked both. Usually the girls were like me though: sort of androgynous or in the middle of any concepts of girl or boy. So it was different and made me think. Hey, that's a good thing!

 

So yeah. I get what you're saying. But if you know who you are and are comfy with it; that's all that matters.

 

I don't know if all lesbians or butch or not and I don't really care. I seem to like everything. lol

[Dako]

Creepy. You don't have to tell me to keep a great distance twice!

How thoughtful!

[Cadence308]

I am a feminine lesbian. I have long blonde hair, wear make-up, wear stylish clothes, and take care of myself. I am proud to be a woman. It's true...if I wanted to date a man, or someone who resembles a man, I would. I don't really get the whole butch, boi thing.

 

It was funny because when I lived in Seattle there were 2 women that were dating that I hung out with sometimes. One of them was very androgynous, but wore a little make-up and took care of herself. She was attractive, although not my type. Her gf was a bit more feminine than her, but still androgynous, and she was attractive as well, but not my type. It seemed like whenever we went to the woman's bar there were always a TON of butch women and sometimes I wasn't sure if it was a man I was looking at. They are not my type, either. I have a really hard time finding feminine women who are intelligent that I would like to get involved with. BTW, I do consider myself a lesbian. I only know of 1 other lesbian who is totally feminine, but I don't know that many lesbians, either.

[northernlights]

And that just confirms beliefs on the subject: All LESBIAN women are butches and dykes and bisexuals are pretty and feminine.

Like I've said before, I go to an all women's college with a high gay population and I've definitely met plenty of feminine women who identify as lesbian only. I think it's because of the very accepting, non-judgemental environment where people who look straight aren't automatically assumed by society to be straight. I wonder if the reason the feminine lesbians seem to be more bi is because of their situation growing up. Like others have said in other threads, when you [hypothetical "you"] look gay growing up, society treats you as gay. They expect you to be totally gay. And you may go through a rough growing up time as ignorant people ostracize you for looking/acting gay, but you don't date people of the opposite sex or not while figuring out whether you are really gay or not. For feminine lesbians though, maybe they received a lot of attention from men while growing up, and experimented with men. Maybe they developed feelings for men, as women are better at doing with either sex, but never developed sexual feelings for men. Does this make them bisexual since they've been with men in the past? Gay since they don't like having sex with men? It's a lot harder to give these kind of women labels, and these women find it harder to give themselves labels as well! Maybe they'll call themselves "bisexual" since they've had relationships with men, even if they prefer women. Maybe if these exact same women had grown up in a society that assumed they were gay from the start, they would call themselves "lesbian" and never think twice about being with a man.

 

So to make a long point short, YES, they do exist, and it's not fair to stereotype all feminine lesbians as being bi. Or vice versa. I've met some very butch looking women (in the stereotyical sense) who turned out to be bi, and preferred men! I've met butch looking women who are 100% straight. I've met feminine women who are 100% gay and like their women 100% feminine and gay. And believe me, L Word is actually a pretty good representation of the lesbian society, IF you happen to live in the gay community that the characters on that show do, since there is so much more variety when there are so many gay people around you all at once. I have definitely met couples in my school who look exactly like Bette and Tina.

 

Basically, I know you hear this a lot on these boards, but you don't need to label yourself to have an identity. Just because the five girls you met all have shaved heads and wear flannel and ride motorcycles or something, doesn't make you any less gay. I mean, for straight people, is a tomboy girl less straight than a Paris Hilton type girl, just because she looks less girly? I wouldn't think so. So for lesbians, I don't think a feminine girl is less gay than a butch girl. It's just how you choose to express yourself, and you can choose whatever you want!

 

Heh, and by the way, I'm sad to find out that only Leisha Hailey is gay. I so had the biggest crush on Shane/Katherine Moennig.

[geek_grl]

Actually, Katherine Moennig isn't as straight as we thought she was. I read in an article on link removed that Jennifer Beals accidentally outed Katherine when she was doing an interview for the Advocate, however nothing in concrete has been confirmed by Katherine herself.

 

But...back to the topic, what's up with the lablels? I don't identify as anything other than who I am. I hate it when people look at me and they instantly assume that because I'm not girly girly, I must be butch. And yes, although I do admit to wearing only pants and not skirts or dresses or wear makeup, that's only due to the fact that I find pants/trousers more comfortable and I hate the hassle of putting makeup on.

 

It's hard enough already being a lesbian in this world without our own kind mocking or shunning people on the basis of looks.

 

I came out pretty late in life so I can say with confidence that having spent most of my life (I'm 31) in the "straight" world and a few years in the "gay" world, gay people are so judgemental towards each other. When I realised I was into women, I wanted to do what everyone else did when they came out, find others like me to be friends with or have a relationship with but let me tell you, I'm actually quite dis-illusioned over our whole gay society (actually society in general, but that's another rant). In honest truth, I don't even bother anymore in wanting lesbian friends, I only wanted to be friends with other lesbians so I could feel like I belonged to a group who were like me in sexual orientation but I'm finding that the straight friends I do have now are really all I need to feel a part of something. They love and accept me for who I am, not what I look like.

 

Fair enough when we wish to be in a relationship with someone, looks has to come into the equation, but attraction isn't all about looks, it could be the way someone smiles, or the way they tilt their head etc but to use looks as a basis for who and what group of people you want to call friends is just...I don't know...silly?

 

It's for this reason alone that I choose not to be a part of the gay scene. Everybody's all so quick to judge and put each other down that I just can't be bothered with all that crap. Who cares what your friends look like? I make friends and hang out with people based on simple things, i.e they make me laugh, they'll support me no matter what, be honest with me, when we hang out together we just have fun and we have a few things in common. I may or may not be friends with the "5 shaved head" women example given below but then that all depends on the above criteria.

 

If you're trying to find people based on looks to be friends with...that's pretty shallow and sad, not to mention that you'll probably miss out on finding really nice and genuine people. I'm not saying that everyone has to be friends with everyone, or that I don't judge other people on looks as well, I'm human, it's what we do instinctually, but I definitely don't use that as a basis for who makes my friends list.

 

In my experiences, sometimes it's the people or the person you least expect to change your life that makes the most impact on it.

 

Ok...getting off my soap box now and I'm sorry if I've offended anybody, wasn't my intention...I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth.

[Deviant_Kate]

Since you can't just ask people you meet "hey, are you a lesbian?" there's a good chance you've met more lesbians than you think and you just don't know it. Nobody meets me and thinks "hey, she's a lesbian!", because I don't wear flannel, I don't have a mullet or a shaved head, I'm not covered in rainbows, I don't wear men's clothing, I don't drive a truck or a motorcycle, etc. I've actually developed a distaste for the word lesbian because of the stereotype that's developed of what a lesbian is. I wear pink, I won't leave my apartment without eyeliner on, I hate it when my nails break, I have a bathroom stocked with Bath & Bodyworks products, and I hate getting dirty. Society is more likely to accept me if I say that I'm bisexual, but the fact is that I'm only truly sexually attracted to women, so I'm running out of adjectives.

 

What you look like is NOT who you are. Just because the rest of the world wants you to have a convenient label so they can stuff you into one category or another doesn't mean that you have to make it any easier for them. Men don't have the monopoly on loving women, and you don't have to look like one of them to do so.

 

If you had to look a certain way to be gay, we'd have come up with a uniform by now. Just be yourself.

[ScaredFawn]

Thanks to you all for your responses, its very nice to see I am not alone! Also, I wanted to apologize if I offended anyone. It is not that I judge people on their looks and that I wouldnt be friends with a butch even, no. I was just wondering if there were other girls like me and my gf, as feminine lesbians are a very invisible part of the population. Something I also noticed in personals online, because Ive been looking for a decent girl for my friend, is that theres a LOT of slutty girls on there who pose with their legs spread wide open and pretend to be bi to attract men, thats the majority of them since it seems to be so in to be bi these days, then theres the butches, and those who you think are men who posted in the wrong section, and then you get about 2% girls who look like girls. I know, I sound pretty judgemental, but thats the way it seems to be. I was wondering, because a whole lot of women are pretty feminine until the find out theyre gay. Then they immediately hack off the hair and exchange their feminity for guys clothes and take the attitude that goes with it. I dont understand, just help me understand. ???

[northernlights]

been looking for a decent girl for my friend, is that theres a LOT of slutty girls on there who pose with their legs spread wide open and pretend to be bi to attract men

 

That's strange...is this a gay personals site for woman? If it is, I can't see why a woman would pretend to be bi to attract men, since uh...men don't go to lesbian personals sites. At least I don't think they do.

 

If it's a straight personals site, and there are lots of pictures of girls with their legs spread open, is it a well-known, well-monitored site? There are a lot of sites for people who want sex, and sex only. A good personals site will have good, clean, clear pictures that show who the person is as a person, not as a sex object.

 

I was wondering, because a whole lot of women are pretty feminine until the find out theyre gay. Then they immediately hack off the hair and exchange their feminity for guys clothes and take the attitude that goes with it.

 

Is this really so? Could it be the limited society that you hang around or the place you live in? Like I said in my previous post, I know so many feminine girls who are only attracted to other women. And they haven't hacked off their hair and become all masculine.

 

Sure, I know some people who have done that. It may be because once a girl realizes she's gay, she's exploring her identity. I mean, her whole world may just have changed and she's trying to figure out how she belongs in it. Just as teenagers go through phases, changing their hair and their clothes and attitude while trying to learn which they feel most comfortable in, a newly realized lesbian may be the doing the same. I have to admit I'm half guilty of that. Yeah, I cut my hair, but I still kept it feminine looking. A short, still girly cut. And yeah, I've experimented with wearing "masculine clothes," but I've realized that I feel kind of weird like that. But then again, I've never felt comfortable in stereotypically girly clothes either, like long dresses and floral tops or whatever, so it's not like I was denying who I really was. So again, don't assume that everyone is doing that. Sometimes it's just their way of learning about themselves again, discovering how they want to look and feel as a lesbian, etc. Maybe some of them will like their short hair and guy clothes. That's fine. Maybe some others will go back to what they were like before. That's fine too. There's so much diversity, and I think in whatever society you're a part of, you may only see such a small portion of what's actually happening in the gay world.