I am an elitist.

[Caldus]

Yes, I'll admit it. I'm pretty elitist sometimes. I have a 4.0 GPA in college for 5 semesters, got an internship with a great company and great pay, and have a strong, genuine interest in philosophy and computers. I read so much philosophy for my classes and on my own free time that I walk around and watch how most other people just never seem to think beyond what is immediately in front of them. So yes, I will admit it. I can be very elitist with a touch of immodesty and arrogance. The problem is, I don't think I would have it any different. One side of me says that I am full of myself and the other side says that nothing should be done about it. I guess it contributes to my lack of a social life in general. But I think my social anxiety has a lot more to do with that. Thoughts?

[FoxLocke]

Sadly, I think this has to do with your lack of a social life. I know because I used to be the same way. I used to be the guy who was, "Smarter than everyone else in the room" and that will turn people off rather quickly.

It is wonderful that you are so passionate about your education and introspective personality. However, don't be so into the books that you miss the oppurtunity to meet new people.

Different people can offer different attributes to others. Don't deny others the chance to get to know YOU.

[Caldus]

I do meet people here and there. Not as often as before though. I am in the philosophy club at my school for example. So then we can have pointless (or sometimes useful) debates concerning problems in philosophy or politics. Problem is, I hate how hardly anyone here takes their education (not for their career but for their own sake) seriously. No one wants to seriously contemplate their own reality or existence except a very select few. And even they often go way off-topic.

[RayKay]

I think this is a common trait among philosophy students, not to be flip or anything but it is something I saw often in my studies and among friends whom focused on it (I took a few philosophy courses as they were cross listed with my major studies...those were often..."interesting" in that you could immediately pick out whom were the philosophy majors..lol). Of course not true for EVERYONE whom loves philosophy!

 

It sounds to me that perhaps this is from your social anxiety, as it is way to justify internally keeping people at a distance, and not being able to "fit in". But you know....people whether they sit around contemplating the complexities of man or not, have a lot to offer.

 

You know...everyone has their own positive strengths and weaknesses. Not everyone may spend hours contemplating how people operate in the complexity of time and space, but put them on a dirtbike and watch them break out some wicked stunts, or give them a brush and paint and watch them create. Give them some people in trouble and watch them soothe, solve and heal. Watch them raise children to be wonderful, compassionate adults. Some will be able to teach, others to research, others to create, others to think. Some people are just happy BEING in the now, living their life in the now - they have kids to raise, jobs to do..and don't need to analyze the state of human kind. They want to feed their kids, work hard at their jobs, take care of their family, and maybe catch a ball game or throw a baseball with their son. Is that such a bad thing? Is it such a bad thing we are NOT all the same?

 

A true sign of intelligence is making everyone else feel like the smartest person in the room. And someone whom is truly 'smart', knows they barely know anything.

 

Knowledge comes in many forms. Don't forget that.

[PocoDiablo]

If you put the same effort you do into your 4.0 GPA into learning how to be social, you wouldn't be so arrogant. In fact, you'd be a lot less defensive and stop pushing people away because you don't want them to find out you really don't have any social skills. Now wouldn't you? If you weren't cold and standoff-ish, people might get to know you and that would expose yourself as lacking in knowing how to have a relationship.

 

Now that I am done talking about myself, can you learn anything?

[SilverCloud]

I think the point you are missing is that all this bragging is coming from what you have learnt in the books.

 

Maybe if you meet people older then your age you will realize that the knowledge you get from experience is not always in books.

 

I used to find it difficult to relate to people my own age at one point too, cause i thought they were not serious enough, but then realized I was too serious. Now i meet people of all ages. I get along and have learned from all ages. Book smart is not necessarily smarter then experience smart. Every age offers some intelligence.

[Derek]

RayKay said it well, a truly smart person makes everyone else feel smarter, makes complicated things simple (i.e. Einstein, e=mc2).

 

I also used to think I was the "smartest guy in the room" sometimes, I was impatient when other people seemed to take so long to understand things that for me would just snap off the blackboard or page in the book into my brain as obvious.

 

But since then I've learned that being smart doesn't make you wise. Knowing alot of things doesn't make you a better person. All that you really need to know you learned in kindergarten, as they say. The more I've learned the less I really know. Knowing stuff and showing it off by matching wits to belittle others and "prop" oneself up is a form of intellectual bullying that isn't any better than physical bullying.

There is a certain amount one needs to know, the rest can be indulgences. (and often vanity)

 

 

Derek

[kellbell]

"There is a certain amount one needs to know, the rest can be indulgences."

 

This absolutely correct. I used to be like that in college. I was an English minor as an undergrad and used to feel a bit above others because I can read Shakespeare and understand it or read the Canterbury Tails with no trouble. Six years later...that knowledge is useless. It has not helped me in the least in my life...being an English minor was full of the "nice to knows" and not the "need to knows."

 

Unless you are going to be an English teacher or the like of course.

[Caldus]

Some people are just happy BEING in the now, living their life in the now - they have kids to raise, jobs to do..and don't need to analyze the state of human kind.

 

But do they ever reach that 'why'? That one day where you are at work and all of the sudden, you drop everything and ask 'why'? No, no one needs to. In fact, a lot philosophers don't even contemplate reality. A lot of them are heavily involved in political affairs or something to do with the theme of 'thinking in action'. I happen to contemplate reality a lot more than I probably ought to, but I do realize that different perspectives is key as well. I've been forcing myself lately to start reading a lot of new philosophers and thus a lot of new perspectives.

 

I just watch people every day. I wonder if they ever think about what they are doing every day. I wonder if they ever at one time thought about why they are here. Or whether they just simply ... do things ... like having children or getting married. I don't think I could ever have children for example. To me, it is just too serious of a thing. It can't be shrugged off as 'something to do' like I've seen some people do. That greatly bothers me. If you actually really thought it through. And I mean, really think it through. Like going as far as to examine the very nature or essense of what you would be doing ... which is after all serious.

 

A true sign of intelligence is making everyone else feel like the smartest person in the room. And someone whom is truly 'smart', knows they barely know anything.

 

The last sentence is a very self-evident truth to me and I agree. That is why I do not even bother trying to read every history book or even every book about any subject. It doesn't matter because knowledge itself is a dynamic faculty. It constantly changes and it also changes how knowledge itself evolves and reveals itself to us. So yes, I agree.

 

It sounds to me that perhaps this is from your social anxiety, as it is way to justify internally keeping people at a distance, and not being able to "fit in". But you know....people whether they sit around contemplating the complexities of man or not, have a lot to offer.

 

I would wager a 'yes' to that. Ever since the days of middle school, I was the oddball of the group. I was eventually picked on a lot through high school. But in college that doesn't happen anymore. I also keep in very good shape physically. I think the body should be challenged a lot and not just the mind.

 

So I'm not entirely sure if I would have had it any different. It happened. That's for sure. As for how I am going to let my past experiences serve me, I will have to do it on my own I guess. Besides, I hate the idea of having to rely on other people for almost anything. But that is just me. Is there anything wrong with that?

[Caldus]

Wow didn't expect this many replies already. I have to go but I will be back to respond in a little while...

[kellbell]

"Besides, I hate the idea of having to rely on other people for almost anything. But that is just me. Is there anything wrong with that?"

 

Absolutely not. I myself, rather eat dirt than rely on others for things. I like to do things myself and take care of things my way. But it is nice to have others around whom care about you, whom "got your back" and whom are willing are to help. Sometimes being smart is knowing when to ask for help and actually asking for it. We are human of course.

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

There isn't anything wrong with being an intelligent, successful person - I know quite a few individuals who are outstanding in this area, and some of them are great people, some arn't, just like any group of people. The only thing I'd say is that some of them can only *get on with* people like themselves as they have no real wish to get out there and mingle with All The Common People, and when they had to do stuff like voluntary work (as part of an award scheme, or whatever), they were in for a bit of a..surprise.

[tylercdurden2004]

"Besides, I hate the idea of having to rely on other people for almost anything. But that is just me. Is there anything wrong with that?"

 

Absolutely not. I myself, rather eat dirt than rely on others for things. I like to do things myself and take care of things my way. But it is nice to have others around whom care about you, whom "got your back" and whom are willing are to help. Sometimes being smart is knowing when to ask for help and actually asking for it. We are human of course.

 

Took me some time to learn this one. Its the essesnce of team work and its needed in every "team" you are in whether its academia, work, or personal. Simply the act of asking for help, or reaching out for help allows others to feel needed or wanted. It allows you to connect with others. Its also is very realistic I mean you can do everything and take care of yourself, but is it really all that fun to do that 100% of the time. For me there are somethings I can do but would prefer not to do them, I like it if say my girlfriend does them, provided she doesnt mind. And besides in this site really a place for deep philosophical disscussions?

[Derek]

You can say the proverbial Socratic "unexamined life" is less fulfilling, but is it intrinsically less valuable?

 

I've asked the why questions and read my share of philosophical meanderings, including Sartre and Camus, much of if vain naval gazing.

 

The issue of having children these days not being taken as a serious responsibility, well it is only recently that we've even been able to have a choice in reproductive matters. Most children would have been "accidental" in a way. Basically a biological drive. Not everything is driven by will alone. And sure raising children should be taken seriously, the interesting thing is how even if you had a child and taught him all the knowledge you have and the ways you think are best, he might not care a wit for any of it and become a serial killer. Because humans have the terrible tendency towards "free will". So no matter if you raise your children "seriously", eventually everyone is responsible for their own actions.

 

 

[RayKay]

But do they ever reach that 'why'? That one day where you are at work and all of the sudden, you drop everything and ask 'why'? No, no one needs to. In fact, a lot philosophers don't even contemplate reality. A lot of them are heavily involved in political affairs or something to do with the theme of 'thinking in action'. I happen to contemplate reality a lot more than I probably ought to, but I do realize that different perspectives is key as well. I've been forcing myself lately to start reading a lot of new philosophers and thus a lot of new perspectives.

 

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe like you once they pondered things about "why", and then later realized, the why is not so important to them.

 

Here is a personal example at least for me anyway. I used to ponder "why" a lot too - I was someone whom studied political science, women's studies, some philosophy. I asked why all the time. I focused so much on those bigger things, I sometimes forgot to live, forgot to make more friends, develop closer ties with family, not that I saw it at the time, but I was self absorbed in that way.

 

Then, life changed for me. My boyfriend died, and I stopped pondering those great things, and focused on those relationships and ties. I realized life is fragile, beautiful, and I would rather live each day to the fullest I could, relishing the now. I still care about the greater things, I still ask 'why' - I donate to charity, sponsor a child, believe in human rights, animal rights, and how we treat this earth for example, but I also care about the love in my life, the pleasures in life.

 

I just watch people every day. I wonder if they ever think about what they are doing every day. I wonder if they ever at one time thought about why they are here. Or whether they just simply ... do things ... like having children or getting married. I don't think I could ever have children for example. To me, it is just too serious of a thing. It can't be shrugged off as 'something to do' like I've seen some people do. That greatly bothers me. If you actually really thought it through. And I mean, really think it through. Like going as far as to examine the very nature or essense of what you would be doing ... which is after all serious.

 

I imagine they do wonder. It's a good sign you are still pretty 'young' to think that perhaps they don't. Everybody asks themself "what are they doing", "am I living right"? Sure they do things, but whom is to say it's not because they CHOOSE to, they want to, rather then because they feel they HAVE to?

 

Life IS serious, but you should be serious about LIVING it in my opinion. So I guess it depends what LIVING means to each person.

 

I too used to think "why" have children, why bother? Do I need to "carry on a legacy"? Is having children just about ego? I saw my mum working so hard to raise us, had to give up a lot to be there when my dad left. I wanted them...but did I really need them? I wondered if it was because I truly wanted them, or felt because I had to. Then my mum got very ill this year, and she told me how blessed she was to have her in her life, how thankful she is for our love, for the support, for the friendship. How she needed us then, how blessed she was to have us and how proud she was of us all. And I always knew I was proud of her, but as I have grown older I have become even more in awe of her strength and love. And it struck me then and there - the reason why is not for ego, not to carry along our genetic line, but to have family, to have bonds, to be there for one another. I realized then yes, it was hard work raising children, but it is also a beautiful thing to see them grow. It's about a need for us as humans to have other humans. We are not independent creatures - we are social, we need those ties, they don't keep us alive in the physical sense, but they keep our spirit alive.

 

 

I would wager a 'yes' to that. Ever since the days of middle school, I was the oddball of the group. I was eventually picked on a lot through high school. But in college that doesn't happen anymore. I also keep in very good shape physically. I think the body should be challenged a lot and not just the mind.

 

Believe me, I was constantly bullied as a kid, in high school I felt more like an outcast..not directly picked on, but talked about a lot behind my back. I struggled emotionally and physically. Even in university I still took that with me, even though it did not follow me, emotionally it was still there with me. I am an exercise addict - my training is so important to me. But sometimes I also recognize controlling that aspect of my life is my way to also make up for things OUT of my control. It's only as I have gotten older and more comfortable with myself, and my place in this world, that I have learned balance and acceptance of myself. It's not an overnight thing, it's a process. Being an outcast for a long time can have you feeling on the outside for a large part of your life.

 

 

So I'm not entirely sure if I would have had it any different. It happened. That's for sure. As for how I am going to let my past experiences serve me, I will have to do it on my own I guess. Besides, I hate the idea of having to rely on other people for almost anything. But that is just me. Is there anything wrong with that?

 

I think it's not about relying on others - it's about having support, love, acceptance. I think you do not want to rely on others because you don't yet TRUST others, and don't yet see the value in it yet, you don't trust enough to open up and make yourself vulnerable again. Needing and wanting others in your life does not make you a weak person.

[kellbell]

Ok...I am afraid I am going to get off topic here so Caldus...just let me know...LOL

"Simply the act of asking for help, or reaching out for help allows others to feel needed or wanted."

 

Tyler, this is very true and humans need that. Like even though I have a hard time asking for help...I always like to help so I feel like I am making a difference in someone's life. Hmmm...why is this so?

 

"And besides in this site really a place for deep philosophical disscussions?"

 

Not sure about that one...I do not mean any disrespect by writing this but philosophy always drove me crazy...not in a negative sense but because one thing or question would lead to another, then to another...and then before I realize it...I have no idea where I even began, does that make any sense?

 

Ok...I am done highjacking this thread...sorry Caldus.

[Dako]

I was a smart kid, got grades easily and felt others were stupid.

Dropped out of school to dig ditches and started my education about a more complex and interesting world than academia.

Getting off your high horse is a step toward things like compassion, humility, love, understanding, empathy and more that aren't supplied by a GPA or the approval of tenured eggheads.

 

No offense intended to students or teachers, just two cents from the great unwashed. There is life out in the field.

 

P.S. If Albert Camus knew anything about Facel Vegas, he may have had the sense to stay out of them.

[tylercdurden2004]

I think its on topic.

 

YOU'RE TOO DANG DEFENSIVE! Ok got that out. But really I found I was refusing to ask for help becasue I was way too concerned about whether I was weak etc. I felt asking for help was a affront to my very being. Sometimes I still struggle with it but working in gourps in busainess school was where I really realized that the skill of connecting is much more important than independance. At the end of the day we all need help at some time in out life. On the flip side asking for help too much is jut as bad or maybe even worse.

[kellbell]

"YOU'RE TOO DANG DEFENSIVE!"...hehe no I am not! j/k

 

 

I could be at times...you got me pegged. :splat:

[novaseeker]

There's a lot of subtle (and perhaps less than subtle) anti-intellectualism here that I find disappointing to be honest.

 

It's perfectly fine to be a bookish intellectual, for goodness sake!

 

To the OP: if you like philosophy and find yourself engaged and absorbed in it, that's great. It's a good thing, not a bad thing -- in itself. It's very true that in our society intellectuals are typically marginalised by the mainstream (as fasionable as it is to bash academia, so-called "eggheads" and the like), but all that means is that you have to be a little pickier in terms of likely friends and romantic interests as well. When you find other people who are also engaged by ideas (and they do exist, even though they're becoming increasingly, and regrettably, rare in this age of informational obsession), you'll really, really hit it with them on a very special levels, and it will be wonderful.

 

The key thing, however, is not to look down on people who are not intellectual. Everyone has his or her own strengths and weaknesses, and I'm sure you know your own as well. There's no need to see yourself as an elite because you are more intellectual than others. However, it does mean, imo, that you should seek out friendships and companionships with other intellectual sorts ... you can forge fulfilling, lifelong relationships with other people who are engaged by ideas, and continue to be engaged by ideas well into their "practical" careers, simply for the pleasure of it, whether it's "useless" or not. I could look back at my Austrian history thesis now 20 years later and say that was "useless knowledge" I learned. But that would be very wrong, in my opinion. The insights I gained in doing that are part of a broader intellectual tapestry that informs the way I look at a variety of things, and certainly gives me a depth of insight into European affairs that I've used many times, both personally when reading the newspaper and professionally when working on European projects at the office.

 

So, take heart. Feel free to be yourself as an intellectual taken up in the world of ideas and philosophy. No shame in that. It's clearly not mainstream at all, but who cares? The key is finding others who share that passion, and they do exist, so that you can really, really have fun with it.

[tylercdurden2004]

Totally agree here. Looking down on intellectuals because of your "real world" experience is no different than looking down on someone because of your "intellectual" experience. Philosopy is a great thing. Its all about thinking and I personally believe basic philosophy courses should be mandatory in any college program. The ones that I have taken have helped me understand the thinking process, and thinking is never a bad thing. Balancing "real world" and "academic" experience is important.

[RayKay]

Hey now..I hope I am not one of those whom was being said to be anti-intellectual - I was not putting down bookish intellectuals...I am one too! Heck I am going back to do more of it...!!!

 

There certainly was a vibe of putting non-intellectuals down initially, so perhaps people were reacting towards that.

 

I just think it's important as I said to realize everyone has their own strengths, and even if they are not identical to yours, it does not mean they are any less valuable.

[tylercdurden2004]

Hey now..I hope I am not one of those whom was being said to be anti-intellectual - I was not putting down bookish intellectuals...I am one too! Heck I am going back to do more of it...!!!

 

There certainly was a vibe of putting non-intellectuals down initially, so perhaps people were reacting towards that.

 

I just think it's important as I said to realize everyone has their own strengths, and even if they are not identical to yours, it does not mean they are any less valuable.

 

Wasn't mentioning anyone particular just that it cuts both ways. I think the most important thing is that people learn how to THINK, whether they learn it in academia or in the real world (where ever this may be). And yeah guess there is a time and place for thinking. The pub on a night out is not always the best place for a deep philosophical discussion however mayeb a lazy sunday afternoon over few pints tis okay. Its all about understanding the situation you are in. Not always easy.

[Dako]

(as fasionable as it is to bash academia, so-called "eggheads" and the like),.

 

I married the daughter of a college professor, supported her through school to become a college professor teaching macroeconomics at uni level and have attended plenty of college level classes since.

 

I love intelligent, educated people, but tend toward brevity in my posts to make a point without putting the reader into a soporific trance.

 

This thread's title is key to its content.

[Caldus]

I think the point you are missing is that all this bragging is coming from what you have learnt in the books.

 

I have been cautious of that, trust me. I try not to base my beliefs on the past books I've read. I try to read in between all of the lines so to speak.

 

The key thing, however, is not to look down on people who are not intellectual.

 

I still have a problem doing this. How can I get over it? How can I start to see them as someone worth interacting with?

 

You can say the proverbial Socratic "unexamined life" is less fulfilling, but is it intrinsically less valuable?

 

I guess if they truly thought it was valuable, sure. But until they adopt an awareness of an awareness, I don't know how they can label it as anything.

 

The issue of having children these days not being taken as a serious responsibility, well it is only recently that we've even been able to have a choice in reproductive matters. Most children would have been "accidental" in a way. Basically a biological drive. Not everything is driven by will alone. And sure raising children should be taken seriously, the interesting thing is how even if you had a child and taught him all the knowledge you have and the ways you think are best, he might not care a wit for any of it and become a serial killer. Because humans have the terrible tendency towards "free will". So no matter if you raise your children "seriously", eventually everyone is responsible for their own actions.

 

Thank you! This is what I was trying to get at with the children thing. There are so many possibilities going on outside of our own consciousness that we can't ever say that we aren't responsible for anything. thereforeeee, having a child in itself is a huge deal. You're bringing about a new consciousness in this world that can make its own choices. Those choices could potentially be devastating to other people. And you would end up feeling responsible and bear the weight of that as soon as you were aware of all of this.

 

Life IS serious, but you should be serious about LIVING it in my opinion. So I guess it depends what LIVING means to each person.

 

Thank you again! Life is serious! I don't know how anyone can say it isn't. But if people want to live like it is not serious, all the more power to them. I can't seem to do that. Not even sure how to be honest.

 

And it struck me then and there - the reason why is not for ego, not to carry along our genetic line, but to have family, to have bonds, to be there for one another.

 

I don't even know if it is about anything in my opinion. I don't know what to make of it. I don't want to label it as anything. thereforeeee, I don't ever see myself having children. Or even getting married for that matter.

 

I think it's not about relying on others - it's about having support, love, acceptance. I think you do not want to rely on others because you don't yet TRUST others, and don't yet see the value in it yet, you don't trust enough to open up and make yourself vulnerable again. Needing and wanting others in your life does not make you a weak person.

 

Yeah it is hard for me to trust other people. I definitely do hate being vulnerable. But I guess if we think about it, we're always vulnerable anyway. And I don't even think I know what love means. Or a better way to put it, I don't know what to make of that stuff - love, compassion, etc. I don't know what meaning it has or supposed to have. Furthermore, I don't see a point in all of it. Whenever I see all of these topics on this forum about love, etc. I just think 'what's the point of all of this crap'. I honestly just feel this way.

 

It's very true that in our society intellectuals are typically marginalised by the mainstream (as fasionable as it is to bash academia, so-called "eggheads" and the like), but all that means is that you have to be a little pickier in terms of likely friends and romantic interests as well.

 

I feel like I will have to be very picky...