Am I rude

[diverp]

Last night something happened that made me wonder if I was acting rudely or not. My wife is in to scrapbooking. She wants to get some done to take to her mom's for Thanksgiving. Last night, I get home, after a long day and with a headache, and I help her try to fix something with her scrapbooking stuff. She never really asked me how my day went or anything. As soon as I got home, she was almost immediatley on the phone with her mom for a half hour chatting about something.

 

So, we have a small dinner and watch an episode of Apprentice that she likes to tape. After that, she camps out in the living room almost in front of the tv and watches Will and Grace (which I really don't care for) and with the overhead lights on full. Not a problem. So, I get a book and start to read.

 

Well, my eyes started to bother me from the light. So, I got up and went to the bedroom to kick back and read where the lights were not so bright and where it was a little quieter. About 30 minutes later she comes in and was all upset saying that I was being rude in leaving to come to the bedroom to read and not telling her that is what I was doing. SHe said that it is rude to "leave" and not say anything. I told her that I didn't realize it bothered her, but it wasn't like I left the house, just moved to another room.

 

Am I being rude by not announcing that I am leaving the room. After all, we are not royalty We have been married since May and come accross little things like this that seem to be not so little to her and gets her upset. I am not trying to be justified as right, just wondering what other people think about such things.

 

Thanks.

[RayKay]

I don't think it is "rude" unless she and you sort of had a standing "date" where you spend time together watching TV or something. I think it would of been more considerate to just say "I am going to read in the other room where it's quieter/dimmer" before you went, but I would call it more of an oversight then rude not to. It was no different then her chatting with her mom, or scrapbooking, while you were home.

 

You live in the same house, and are married. You are not siamese twins...and can move about freely!

 

I think this may be a lapse in communication and understanding in one another.

 

Why did she wait 30 minutes to come complain if she felt slighted by it...was she waiting until show was over?

 

I think she overreacted to this. Why I don't know - that may be due to other issues in your relationship or her own beliefs on what marriage is like.

[poppygirl2005]

I think its rude of HER to not be considerate to your needs or likes. I guess there are many ways you could handle the situation...you could #1 turn the lights down so you can stay reading in the same room as her or suggest you both agreeing on something to watch (that you both LIKE) together.

I dont think you need to announce your every movement to your partner..especially in your own house where you should feel comfortable to go where you want. Its not like you took off outside the house for 5 hours and didnt tell her where you were going or when you would be back. I think she is making a mountain out of a mole hill and I think its selfish of her to take over and entire room and then get mad at you when you leave for some peace and quite.

 

I guess to prevent any further nonsense...the next time you're going to go to the bedroom...just say "I'm going into the bedroom to read my book"...its a simple thing and then you dont have to worry about any conflict.

[smallworld]

Diverp, Marriage shouldn't be about winning, losing, who's right or who's wrong. It should be about love and wanting what's in each other's best interests. What you and your wife are going through is a normal matter of adjustment to personal preferences and communication styles. Instead of making a bigger deal out of these situations by labeling them as "rudeness", it's much more loving and less likely to start fights if you both give each other the benefit of the doubt when it comes to "momentary lapses of sensitivity."

 

When you find yourself in such a moment, resist the urge to "hit" back. Stop, take a breath, and focus on what you two share in common: Your love for one another! No need to be accusatory. Just explain how these moments make you feel and what behavior you would prefer to see instead. Apparently she's the sort that would prefer you announce your intentions when you go to another room while you're the sort that wants to be asked about your day. Is it really that simple? Yes!

[diverp]

Smallworld,

 

I couldn't agree more in that you don't make it a "hit" back situation. My point was that I flat out didn't see an issue with it and my wife decided to take on a "hurt" stance to this. Now, I can easily just "announce" my presense or departure if that will stop this from happening. What I was trying to get accross was that she got very upset about it and has made a point of being quiet with me this morning because of that. I actually think she is more upset that I don't see what I did as "rude".

 

Yes, I can simply act differently in the future to avoid such things now that I know it does bother her as much as it did. I was more curious to know if this would be considered rude to some people as it would just never have dawned on me that it was. Live and learn I guess.

[miracle29]

I don't think rude is the real issue here, as much as a misunderstanding and slight bit of assuming. I think she assumes that you are suppose to do something that you were not aware of. By assuming this, she gets upset because she put an expectation on you that you did not meet. This is why they say don't put expectations on ANYONE. Simply bring this up to her and see where she stands on this. Then let her know that you are an adult and that you don't have to announce your every breath. She needs to know that just because you're married doesnt mean you have to scream "i'm using the bathroom now, is that ok with you? Oh and its number 2".

[DN]

Did she announce her movements that evening - spending a half hour on the phone, for instance?

[LostInMyThoughts]

It's good to see that you're not being defensive here. For me, I know in your situation, I would have probably gotten defensive, and blown everything out of proportion.

 

As others have suggested, perhaps you're wife was bothered by something else.

 

It's common for people to show their frustration indirectly. She might have been bothered by something, and decided to fixate on something minor like you leaving without saying anything to her.

 

You can take these times as opportunities to find out what deep down is bothering your wife. Validate her immediate feelings without getting defensive; its called giving containment. Something like "I'm sorry that you were bothered by me leaving without saying something. I can see how that comes off as being rude." Then you can say something about what was on your mind, that is how you had a rough day, or you can ask her what else is bothering her.

[diverp]

Last night when I got home, I was obviously getting silent polite treatment. I asked her a few times if she was okay, and she kept saying she was fine. Well, after trying to make conversation, and when we get to bed, she tells me she is still mad with me (for a few things). THe first thing is the going from one room to another and not telling her. She said she was talking to a friend of hers that morning and said that the first thing her friend said is "that was rude".

 

The second thing has to do with having kids. We have both talked about wanting children. She has wanted to for quite some time. I want kids as well. She is being upset with me in that she is reading about having kids and I don't jump in on the conversations (partially becaues she is going a little overboard with articles, etc). Now, the thing that does bother me is that it feels as if her and her sister and her girlfriends have pretty much planned out when we are having kids and how things are supposed to happen with kids, etc and I feel essentially like I don't get a say. Its like I told her, she will come up with all these ideas from her friends, get name ideas from her friends, get old baby clothes from her sister and she will not stick up to her sister when the sister doesn't agree with her and forces a viewpoint on her. I essentially feel like it is not a thing between her and I but that her and her friends will think a lot of things up and experience the baby thing and I am essentially a sperm donor. This bugs me and I have told her that.

 

As far as the "rude" comment goes, I told her that I think it is rude when she decides to have a one hour conversation with someone on her cell phone when we are out doing things together.

 

She then goes on about how she feels like I am not paying enough attention to her and how she feels she is the one who has to initiate sex 90% of the time. THat is not the way it is, but that is how she sees it.

 

She just started reeling things off and all of these things seemed to be things that are related to me either not caring about her or not having input about babies or not paying attention to her. Now, when her friends are pretty much getting more attention than I do, when she will get on the phone with her friends when we are doing things, when she will not do anything sexy with me like hug me or cuddle or do anything, but complain that I am not doing that, it is hurtful. I wasn't bothered the other night when she brought this up, but after hearing that last night, I am offended.

[RayKay]

Oh my, it would seem there is a good deal of resentment going on here, and a big lack of communication between the two of you in some of these issues.

 

She seems to also rely on what her friends/family thing as a basis for how SHE should be thinking, but there also seems to be a lot of "one-upship" going on in a sense, or a really individual take on things from both your sides. What I mean by that is instead of looking at things (decisions/issues) as a couple, they are being looked at it in a "I want this...." kind of way... It's great if you both want kids, but you also have to plan together when you want them, and make decisions as a couple....not according to her alone, or her family's expectations.

 

Can I ask how long you have been together & how long married? Were there any of these issues before the marriage?

[diverp]

We have known each other for about 2 years and have been married since May. I have been trying to find things for us to do together (skiing, hiking, etc.) We used to go to the movies once a week. But she doesn't like to eat out much and her sister's husband is a cop and tells the sister about all these bad things around movie theaters and thereforeeee, my wife does not want to go to movies all that often any more.

 

We were going to go and do a Christmas card picture a few weekends ago. She asked if I wanted to do that and I thought that was nice. Well, later in the week, her friends call up and ask if she wants to come over and do some of this scrapbooking with them. She then went and did that instead. I feel like a lot of things I bring up, we can't do because of some reason or another. We went to an apple farm area a couple of hours away and the whole way there she was complaining about feeling sick and having to go to the bathroom, etc. My wife has become a higher maintenance lady, which she didn't seem to be before. I feel like there are all these expectataions on me, but I can't be taken seriously. She will ask if there is something that I want to watch or do. When I reply, she says, "yeah, are you sure? wouldn't this be better?". It is stuff like that that just makes me feel like I am not taken very seriously and that she is closer with her friends and sister sometimes than she is with me. Just frustrating.

[RayKay]

I would probably advise counselling to work on your communication skills, and your relationship as well - now, rather then later as it gets worse. It would appear that there are more issues here then you being "rude" for going into another room.

 

To me it seems very hypocritical that she thinks you are "rude" for going into another room while she is watching TV, yet it's okay for her to ditch you to go scrapbook, or to call her friends for an hour, or to show little interest in "couple time".

 

Do you feel then as if she presented herself as someone else before marriage, then she is now?

[diverp]

I don't think she represented herself differently before marriage (at least not much). She used to have a horse. When she had the horse, she would go to the barn after work and not come home until 8 or so. I used to try to go with her after work to be with her, but I didn't really enjoy it and she was involved with what she was doing. But, when I stopped going, she got upset with me for not coming. Well, she sold her horse partially so we would end up having more time together in the evenings (her decision). Well, we have this time, but that time is not really for us, if that makes sense.

 

I am sure that I must be doing some things that are not fulfilling to her. There must be some things that I am lacking that she needs. I admit that. But, it hurts when she builds up a handful of items like the other night and then just goes on an hour long monologue of all the ways that I am not making her feel special or all the ways that I am uncaring or all the ways that I am not interrested enough. I do not do this back. It almost feels like the things she is telling me, I could turn around and say the same things right back at her. We have had a couple of arguments since we have been married (small ones), and they all come to be about things that I am lacking in.

 

I tried to tell her last night that I need to feel the same things. I told her that I like doing fun things together (no, not shopping trips for the day with trips to the Macy's makup counter I told her that I just don't feel like either one of us has put much effort into being romantic any more. She said that I don't initiate in the bedroom nearly as much as she does. I told her that I don't think that was true, but also that if she wants to make love, not just have sex, that she shouldn't feel weird about saying something.

 

I do think that both of us are slightly introverted and don't always bring what we are feeling out in the open as we both think that these things will work each other out. I try to see things from her perspective, but its like I told her, when I come home, and you would rather spend an hour talking to your friends/family, then spend another couple of hours scrapbooking and then I will say things to her taht two hours later she will not remember me saying, then is it any wonder I don't feel very romantic. I feel like she things that 90%+ of romance and love making initiating should be on my shoulders. I am probably making these things out to be bigger than they are, but I just assume this is normal first year of marriage stuff that we need to get figured out.

[LostInMyThoughts]

This is a slippery slope. It could be that you're wife is insecure and is dependant on you to make her feel more secure. Unforuntately she is expecting the impossible from you. If her gripes are legitimate, and you feel that you could make more of an effort, then perhaps you could take her "laundry list" seriously.

 

The down side to relationships is that you can't force someone else to do the things you want. You can for a while, but eventually things will break down. However what you can do, and this is important, is decide that you are going to address the things she wants. Don't look at it like as if, hey I don't get what I want, so its okay that you don't get what you want. Also don't take the fact that you are unable to meet her needs as a sign on inadequacy. It's not. Your wife is really doing you a favor by telling you directly what she wants from you. Now you just need to do it.

 

Here is the kicker, the more you go out of your way to meet her needs, the more she will respond by meeting your needs. If you help meet your wifes needs, she'll win. And in a marriage, if you're spouse wins, you win. You'll find your wife to be more loving, caring, and open to listening to your needs.

 

Good luck.

[sonjam]

diverp, you got married in May? It sounds like the honeymoon is over, and now the real work begins....

 

About the leaving the room thing. I don't care much for Television, but my hubby doesn't like to go to bed early as he will then wake up early and lie around in bed half the night. So we have an unspoken thing, I like to go to bed early, and read, then fall asleep. So If I get up from the couch I give him a quick kiss and tell him I will see him later. Then I go to read. The family room is family time, even if everyone is busy with their own acitivity. What you did is not necesarily rude, but how about trying to do it this way?

 

You will have to sit with you wife, and talk to her about these things (kids) in a nice and grown up way. Make her see that you are now a team the two of you, and you feel uncomfortable if she discusses the things that the two of you plan for your future with others, without asking your opinion in it, and including you. After all, without you, there will not be the US....

 

Don't get accusatory, and don't raise voices or defend. JUST normal conversation. Tell her you love her, and look forward to the future you will spend with her, but that it must be the two of you, and then the rest of the world, not the other way around.....

 

Hope this helps a bit!

[diverp]

Its been a couple of days and one of the things we discussed has come up. I had brought up the fact that I didn't like the fact that other people were seeming to have more input into us having kids than I do. Case in point. Her sister is a little bossy at times. I remember about one month after we were married, we were at her house and she has 5 bags of kids clothes and toys (and an old used changing bed) sitting at the door. Now, when we went there it was at a function where her dad and family were there. So, she said that she was giving us this old stuff as we will be needing them soon. Now, that is a nice gesture, but to be honest, when we have kids, part of the fun/experience is in picking your own stuff out for your kids. What was not fun is that my wife felt obligated to take this stuff so as to appease her sister. Now, we make good salaries and can afford our own stuff. One thing that was uncomfortable was the whole "dad, can you help Paul take the baby clothes to their car". Like I have no input in this and also, it seemed a little awkward having her dad help me take old baby clothes to my vehicle. I don't know why, it just was.

 

Anyways, I brought this up and my wife agreed that she lets her sister walk over her with things like this so that she doesn't start a big argument. However, she said that she agreed that it should be our decision, not other peoples.

 

So, this afternoon, she was at her sister's to pick up some things we are taking to her mom's for Thanksgiving. Sitting outside are another handful of bags with baby stuff. My wife told her thank you, that was very nice of you, but we don't really want to take this stuff (She kind of lied and said that we don't have room for all this stuff). Anyways, her sister got upset and didn't talk to her for 10 minutes. She was obviously mad at her. Not 20 minutes later, my wife was talking to her mom and her mom said that she was just talking to her sister and that she did not want us to bring something back for her that we were going to pick up for her. Obviously mad. Now, my wife is feeling bad that her sister was upset (although they get these little arguments from time to time).

[melrich]

Now, the thing that does bother me is that it feels as if her and her sister and her girlfriends have pretty much planned out when we are having kids and how things are supposed to happen with kids, etc

 

Oh Yeah! I hate that.

 

I think a lot of what you guys are going through is learning how to live with each other. Like another posters said, what seems to be a little issue turns into totally something else again.

 

Going to the bedroom thing?...not rude but I can understand why you got the reaction you did (I'm not saying it's justified).

 

The friends/sister/wife vs you thing...is probably how your wife is currently feeling comfortable communicating with you at the moment, reciting 2nd hand conversations and through other people.

 

You need to provide an environment where she is comfortable talking directly to you about these things. Do you set time aside at night to talk about things that really matter? I know it sounds contrived but communication is one of the hardest things to get right in a relationship.

 

My partner and I make a routine of it. Time set aside each week where we talk about important relationship things. It's not the same time each week but one of us triggers it by asking the other "are we happy".

 

We still fight ( a fair bit because she is pretty volatile) but we don't have hidden skeletons so we fight fair and mostyly without fear..

[sonjam]

This is part of her sister not wanting to let go of the "controlling bit" YOUR wife must stick it out, not make ammends and blame it on you... The sister WILL get over it, and learn to respect your wife's feelings. And the fact that you also have a say, and that she is not in control of you or your wife. She is doing CHANGE BACK behavior, because your wife is changing the old way her sister is used to her dealing with things (accepting and going with the flow)

 

DON"T worry about it, just don't change back to your old ways, stand your ground (in a firm but loving way)

[ratherbesailing]

Was your wife upset because you changed rooms or did she think you went to bed without her? On nights you want to go to bed before she does it would be rude to just disappear. It also seems like it might be time to let her know when you do want to have kids. If it is that important to her it would only be fair to give her an idea of what you have in mind.

 

I'd also like to suggest that both of you read at least part of the Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus books. There is one called something like Mars and Venus in the Bedroom. You don't have to read the whole book, just enough to understand that we look at things totally different than women do. It does make you think.

 

Other than those suggestions, I think you are on the right track pushing back a bit. She does need to consider what you want to do, it shouldn't be all about her.

[diverp]

Its been a few weeks and I have come accross some other things now that are making me uncomfortable. First off, when we first moved in together, I had two dogs and she had one. I had to get rid of one because she was certain that this other dog would attack her dog (although there was absolutely no reason to think so). Now, she is nagging a lot about my current dog. He is a border collie and lab mix that is hyper. He was a pound dog. Her dog is a corgi that is very obnoxious. Well, in her eyes, her dog is a precious saint and any time my dog does something like a bark or jumps on the couch like hers does, well, all I hear for the rest of the day is what a mennace my dog is. It gets old. She really won't be happy until my dog is shipped off to the humane society.

 

Second, we just had Christmas. It was her and myself and my father came for Christmas. Now, I have done so much to be good about being around her dysfunctional family. Her dad could care less about her. Her mom really is a "fake" person in my opinion that I originally got a lot of grief from (then after we got married, her mother took me aside and told me not to let my wife roll all over me). My wife had been married two other times in her early 20's and lived with 2 other guys for quite some time. Anyways, I get to see my dad a few days every 6 months if I am lucky. I like my father. He is a very nice man. I have this whole next week off. My wife seems to like him, but all she does is ask "when is he leaving". I mean, isn't that very rude?

 

I feel like we had more things in common before we got married. Now, it seems like we have less in common and that my life has turned into something to support her instead of my own any more. I don't get to do any of the things I used to love doing. I used to love diving and running and golfing, etc. I go and make the effort to do her things even though I don't like them, but then she turns around and tells me that she would be bored doing my things. Her best friend and husband both dive and invited us to go diving and for a weekend trip. Now I have done many things with my wife that include things with her friends that I have no interest in, but do it to be supportive. However, when her friend offered to go on this weekend diving trip to Catalina off the California coast, my wife said no immediately saying she would be bored.

 

I just feel that when I get home or anytime she is going to open her mouth, it is going to be something negative or involving me doing something for her. I have this week off from work after having worked some 100+ hour weeks for a few weeks now. We are supposed to have some snow this week. Well, she already has me painting the dining room and was asking if I could drive her into work if it snows. I mean, common!! She has driven in the snow before. I just laughed it off a bit and she slapped my shoulder and started pouting.

 

I am getting frustrated.

[RayKay]

diverp....

 

I know it seems like there are many things that are "new" now, but I do think there were some red flags before, that you had talked about before you ever got married, and it seems like now that you ARE married, they are just becoming more apparent, or perhaps just a bit less disguised.

 

I think you really need to consider marital counselling at this point. It sounds like there are many large issues in communication, and also incompatibilities in lifestyles and compromise, that you two need to address and work on together.

 

There is something wrong if you don't get to do ANY of the things you used to love doing either, when you get married, it should be a way of bringing two people whom love each other for what they do together without having to sacrifice their own interests. It is those interests that make them part of whom they are. It is not a way for one person to just become more like the other person. I am concerned that you seem to be growing more into a person she wants, rather then into your own self. Does she still do scrapbooking? If so, why are you not out there running or golfing. Having healthy interests, and activities that are your own, can benefit the relationship, and should not be seen as detrimental. Yes, you should be able to do some things together, and have interests as a couple, but this does not require you give up your things, she give up your things, or either of you do things you hate, find new things to do together you enjoy together.

 

I know however she has also given up some things she loved - such as her horse. Is it possible she feels that there needs to be some tradeoff (while this may not be fair, it is possible she does feel that way).

 

Do you know the reasons for the breakdowns of her previous marriages? That may be important, it is very rare that it one has no part at all in the dissolution of a marriage.

 

Again, I think counselling is really important. The frustration and resentment I feel will only grow, and there needs to be some communication and resolutions here to work on this together.

[diverp]

Last night we had an argument. She got home and was quiet towards me. Then, we went to bed and she was asking me why I was being such a jerk?

 

I finally told her that I was unhappy that she takes no interrest in my things (diving, running, skiing, etc.). I told her that I don't expect her to do those things, but it would be nice if she could at least show interest in them for me. I can think of times when we have gone somewhere (San Francisco) and instead of seeing the sights, she went on a whirlwind shopping expidition. I hated doing this, but I went along for her because I love her.

 

I also told her that I feel like my opinion doesn't matter to her. I feel like I have to fight or back up my every opinion to her, and over very small things. It gets exhausting to the point where I just won't argue any more.

 

I also feel like her friends opinions count more to her than mine does.

 

I feel like I am giving and she is taking.

 

I feel like I do things for her, when not asked to do so, and she takes.

 

Now, when I brought this stuff up, she turned it around and started telling me she felt the same.

 

She has been married twice before. The first time, she divorced because she said her in laws butted in too much.

 

The second time, she divorced because she never got along with her husband (she felt like she was forced into the marriage).

 

Her last long term relationship ended because the guy did not want to have kids. I sometimes feel like she would still be with him if he did.

 

She had a relationship just before me that was with a guy who she described as flaky.

 

Now, I have never been married. I have had relationships. I had one with a girl who suffered from depression. I had one with a girl who was bipolar to a pretty good degree. And, I have had normal relationships. So, I am no saint or genius when it comes to relationships either.

 

I doubt myself a lot now. I have lost my confidence. I don't know if I am seeing things that aren't there and she is really the one who is getting the bad end of the relationship or what.

 

The way she turned it around makes me wonder why the both of us could be having the same feelings. Although, she first says she is on cloud 9, then turns around and says she feels the same way as I have said I do. I don't understand.

 

I told her that I feel like our communication skills are terrible. At one point last night she actually told me that she feels like she has done everything she feels like she can do and if there is a problem, it lies within me. Perhaps that is true. I don't know.

[RayKay]

I told her that I feel like our communication skills are terrible. At one point last night she actually told me that she feels like she has done everything she feels like she can do and if there is a problem, it lies within me. Perhaps that is true. I don't know.

 

This concerns me. She is telling you it's your fault. And we all know relationships - good and bad - take two people. I am sure you too also feel like you have "done everything", correct? So if you both feel that way where does the problem lay? Simply - it's shared. It's something you need to work on together.

 

And it's this apparent disparity between your views on the situation that highlight for me the need for marital counselling for you two, because I really think you need a more neutral third party to be involved at this point.