I have a couple of questions.

[SlipperySammy]

As many of you knwow my girlfriend and I are struggling with intamcy issues and she has a low libido.

 

We just finished 'Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars in the Bedroom' and we are starting 'A Sexed Starved marriage' by Michele Davis.

 

Our first book was ok, it helped explain to both of us how Men and Women are in bed, but it was written at an overall low reading level and I felt it was a little dumbed down for me.

 

Our next book is written really well, and besides a few aspects like it is geared toward older couples at times it is pretty good.

 

In the Sexed Starved Marriage the author says that accroding to some studies and her research some people need to be physically stimulated before being mentally arroused. She explains the typical person is opposite and that most people become mentally arroused and then seek physical stimulation...but she also explains some people do not have sexual thoughts or get arroused from thinking sexual...these people need physical stimualtion first.

 

Has any one heard of this or experieced it. We are only half way done with the book, but so far she is recomending that people like this just let thier partner stimulate them and then they should get arroused and this will result in a healthier sex life.

 

I have a few problems with this and I am having a little trouble accepting this. One reason that our low sex life really kills me is the feeling I get like I am not attractive or wanted...Wont I still feel this way if I have to initiate and physically stimulate my girl firend 100% of the time...proir to her ever gettign turned on? I just imagine if she really wanted me and thought I was attractive that at soem point every blue moon she would initiate and just tell me 'I want you right now' But according to the book and how our relationshop is I have to iniate EVERY TIME. I am so sick of initiating...and even if this appraoch works I still forsee getting turned down some times maybe less then now... but still some times and at this point I can't take gettign turned down any more... it mentally breaks me. One factor that both books we have read have mentioned is how the sexless relationship is worst on Men because of the feeling of rejection...I can not agree with this more, I feel so rejected and it REALLY makes me depressed. At this point gettign turned down makes me almost cry, and since I get turned down so much I just avoid it.

 

Is any one here the kind of person who can not get arroused with out physcial stimulation?

 

How often do girls usually ininiate sex?

 

Any other insights?

[moulinbleu]

A few q's.

 

Did you and your girl ever have a sex life that you found satisfying (like during the early salad days)?

 

Has her interest tapered or has it always been low?

 

If you answer there question, I may be able to give better advice because I have been in the place of your girl (reading books, thinking something is wrong with both of us, etc.)

[RayKay]

Hey Sammy,

 

 

Everytime I read your posts I get sad for you, and really feel for you in being rejected - I am not sure it is *worse* on men to be rejected, as I think women who are rejected suffer the same blow to their self esteem, and also worry about their attractiveness, but perhaps men just tend ot keep it inside more.

 

I know this has been a long on going issue, but have you ever said to your girlfriend how rejected you DO feel? How this is not just a sexual frustration issue, but something that is truly affecting you emotionally?

 

You already know I just think it is time for you to walk away from this, but that being said I still want to help.

 

I don't think this latter book is likely the issue with your girlfriend honestly... if she needed physical stimulous before she got turned on (and could not get there mentally) she would not be rejecting you right now in my opinion. Honestly, if you were to start kissing her neck, and caressing her gently (or harder, whatever you two like) and make a move...what are chances she would want to go ahead, and chances she would NOT want to go ahead? Honestly, can YOU just go up to her and start groping her and feel that it will go somewhere - I imagine given the past you would feel quite uncomfortable with it and worried...before you even started!

 

Nor is it fair in my opinion that you should be faced with a lifetime of being the initiator ALL the time! Yes, often in relationships there is one person who initiates more often than the other, but there should still be some reciprocation there in my opinion. To answer your question, I probably initiate about 40-60% of the time, and my partner of course does the remaining - so you see the balance shifts..sometimes I will initiate more one week, sometimes he will.

 

For me, its both mental and physical, it can vary..sometimes I like being surprised with a fondle that leads to sex, sometimes I like some discussion, some dinner, some "us time" to mentally stimulate me and get me in the mood, sometimes I like some dirty talk, sometimes I like some romance and a set mood - it really varies!

 

This is not healthy - you two I think really do have to realize you are at a make it or break it point. Have you gone for counselling together yet? Has she consulted a doctor?

 

I know I have advised it before but I will again. I know you love this girl, it is evident by fact you are still there through all of this, but this has been going on for an extremely long time now. Do you honestly believe that things are going to change? Do you HONESTLY believe she is as concerned about it as you are? Are you honestly prepared to deal wtih this for many more years, and a lifetime? If the answer to any of these is no, I really think you do need to seriously consider what toll this is taking on you, and whether its worth it...as many positives as there are to your relationship, we should not have to forego a very important aspect - and sexual compatibiliy and intimacy IS extrememly important as you are seeing how a lack of it effects you dramatically - and settle for living without it.

 

I admire your determination to work on it, but there is a point where the work is going to nowhere but pain and frustration for you both. Sexual compatibility is important too, and I would advise you maybe realize that she may never change that aspect of herself...only you can decide what is best for you though

 

Good luck.

[SlipperySammy]

Yes...The first 10 months sex was great...she didn't initiate much but I chalked that up to her inexperience and I figured it would get better. But yes overall sex was awsome.

 

Her sister got pregnent and she kinda freaked out , out of fear of pregnancy then we started having issues which only snow balled into other issues and I think it is also hard for us to get rid fo the stigma all the fighting has created, so in the end it isn't easy to relax and enjoy sex. She also seems to have a low libido.

 

The book we are currently reading explained that when some one who has a low libido starts a relationship they are excited and enorphins in thw brain help keep thier libido higher, but later on the excitment wears off and thier 'true' libido shows up.

[WildChild]

SlipperySammy I'm going through the same thing right now and you hit it right on the head about if I was attractive enough wouldn't he be more interested? It seems he's only interested if he initiates it, when I do 99.9% of the time he turns me down leaving me frustrated, feeling rejected and feelings of him being selfish. I have talked to him about it and it doesn't seem to make a difference. If you find the answer, please share because I'm at my wits end. I would never cheat on him, but it's frustrating when other men straight out tell me I'm attractive and/or try to pick me up and the man I want to spend my life with would rather do other things with his time than do me

[Shadows Light]

Well.. wish I could help you. I can appreciate your dilemma as I was in a marriage where I chased and intitiated most of the time. And NO... its is definitely NOT a good time to get turned down. Left me feeling as if something was wrong with me. BIG TIME. And the older I got... the higher my libido. As the 30's arrived.. so did the SEX KITTEN libido with it... and pffssssstttt Nada, zip, nien.. nothing. Books, books and more books.

 

I can tell you that I have discovered that it is NOT my issue. Nothing wrong with me. Whhhhooo hooo... and thats a nice feeling. Its a nice feeling to be walking on cloud 9 once again.

 

My issues are WAY WAY different from yours.

 

WHAT makes yours GOOD... or BETTER.. I should say is that SHE admits there is a problem and is actively seeking answers with you.. THAT in and of itsself is a BIG BIG difference... and shows she acknowledges it..and cares.

 

The only advice that I can give you is if you value your relationship with her.. and she is intent on trying.. then keep looking for an answer. Does she like to read romance novels??? Maybe they would stimulate her thought processess.... if she found something to trip her trigger mentally.. she could think of THAT scenario.. to get her gears going... a jump start if you will.

 

Also... by your ages you both are fairly young... early 20's. Unfortunately.. most men peak in early 20's and women only get started going into their late 20's thru 30's... gods little joke on humanity.. don'tcha just love it.

 

See if you can get books lie the KINSEY (sp?) report... or look up the KINSEY INSTITUTE.. on teh web.. they do a lot of SEX studies.. and have written many books on the anatomy of human sexuality.

 

Good luck to you.

[moulinbleu]

Reading all of this has made me feel deja vu. (I have even read some of OPs original posts). The early relationship is all rockets and sex and orgasms all of the time. Then reality sets in. Sisters get pregnant. Mothers die. Jobs are lost. The true libido sets in.

 

I have had three relationships fail because of this pattern. I have now accepted, I have a low sex drive and in order to have a relationship that works, I require a man with a similar libido.

 

If you need sex, affection and reassurance more than your woman can give, maybe you are not right for each other. Imagine this going on for years! What will it do to your self-esteem? What will it do to her state of mind? It is very VERY difficult for a woman to change her libido long term. She may be able to consciously do it for days/weeks, but ultimately, her hormones, hypothalamous and (Maybe) attraction for your pheromones dicate her drive. (I have a bit of authority in this area of science.)

 

Is she the one for you? Please ask yourself the questions stated above. I am sure you already have, but do it again. There is a women out there with a sex drive that can keep you satisfied, just as there was a man (a much older man) who puts up with my low libido.

 

Another question.

Is she worth it? I had a man (ex-fiance) tell me that I am everything he would want in a friend/wife, except the passion was not there. He didn't tell me this verbatum. Two weeks before our wedding, I found out that he had a profile on link removed, looking for a "discreet F*&% buddy." He needed an amount of sex I couldn't provide. Now he has found a woman and they are very happy. It has all worked out.

 

There is a woman out there who wants you as much as you want her. I suggest you go find her.

[SlipperySammy]

Thanks for all of the advice, Ray kay you are the best and I always read your posts several times, I know you must be sick of my posts...I just keep posting hear to keep my sanity.

 

I love her, and I am trying. It isn't easy to leave some one over this especially when every thing else is good, she is my best friend, but not my lover.

 

On top of all her hang ups and issues it isn't easy for us to be intimate with all of these fights and issues hanging over our head, kinda like we are both nervouse during sex and uptight. I really doubt that can ever go away.

 

I hear every thing you are all saying, and I agree but don't know if I can bring my self to leave her. Don't think I havn't contiplated this going on for my entire life because I have...this idea gets me so depressed I have left school and work practically in tears just thinking about it before.

 

*I never cry...atleast not until this issue...facing htis is the worst I love her so much and she is my best friend..but I am not satisfied and can't imagine living this way...but I also can't imagine leaving her.

 

Any way sorry to keep posting the same crap, I am just learning more after reading books and researching this and wanted some feed back...posting here helps me keep my sanity, I also think that the fact that I need this board as an outlet for my thougths is bad...Shouldn't I be able to talk to her? If she was my soul mate shouldn't we be able to talk? I have told her every thing and EVERY THING ABOUT HOW I FEEL, but I feel we don't commincate, I don't get feedback.

 

Please don't resent me for keep posting the same crap, just don't reply is you are sick of me

 

-Thanks

[Shadows Light]

Slippery Sam... Honey, you just keep right on posting as many times as you need to. Everyone needs an outlet. This is the perfect forum to it.

 

I'm going through many other issues of my own... and have dumpped on my friends till I can't dump anymore... stomped it fairly down into the ground. The only reason they are still around is because they LOVE me so much... and because I post on these boards to VENT VENT VENT.. and get it all out.

 

Sooo you go ahead and vent away as long as you have to.

 

In reply to you... sometimes we get back stuff we don't want to hear. Because it is very painful. I know... I had a best friend that I dumped on years ago..and I would get angry over her advice. LOL... be very careful what you ask for. You just might get it. I didn't listen. Because I felt that I had not turned over EVERY STONE myself.. not once or twice..but a 100 times over. And when it got to the point that I could not go on and further...and I had done everything I could do. Then and only then.. did I capitulate... and give in. She was right. Years and years ago.. she was right. BUT.. I was right to do it in my own time and pace.

 

Sooo... when you feel you have done everything that you can do. Then do what you have to do. And darlin... its still going to hurt bad. There's no two ways about it.

 

Got a question for you: Whats a good way to rip off a bandage????

 

Slow... or Fast???? I prefer to yank it off in one swoop. Quick & Fast. The longer you linger with that band-aid and procrastinate... the more anxious you become..and the more it seems to hurt.

 

Got another analogy for you...

 

So.. you cut your finger. And its irritating you. You put salve on it and a band-aid...but the darn thing doesn't seem to heal. You keep re-opening the wound over and over. Then one day. You look down and its infected, so you look for different medicines to help heal your finger. The rest of your life goes on. And while you are following the rest of your life, you kinda just deal with the irritated cut on the finger. Soon, that finger don't look so good. Its looking quite bad. Gangrene... uh oh. You know what that means. What do you do when you get Gangrene.. what are your alternatives???? uh oh.. you say to yourself. I can't lose that finger. I like that finger as it is. Its a part of my hand.. I need it. Sooo you keep adding salve to it and medicines. And pretty soon the gangreene has spread.. and now its spread to your whole hand. UUUHH MAN!!! what do you do???? You can't.. you just can't cut that hand off.. its an appedage that you love..and need and are hmm quite attached to having it around. You need it. So you continue with the medicines.. and looking for a cure-all n saving that hand. Pretty soon.. that gangreen has spread.. and it goes up your arm.. and then pretty soon to the elbow... and you are still.. STILL making the same arguments why you need that arm.. and still looking for answers.. and every doctor you go to .. tells you the same thing.. but you keep thinking.. I CAN"T.. and before you know it... Its all the way to your shoulder... and if it gets past that shoulder.. do you know what can happen???? Sooo what do you do??? Are you going to continue to look for the miracle cure.. knowing deep in your heart what has to be done.. even though it will not be pleasant.. and even though you didn't want to do it in the first place... what are you going to do??

 

 

[RayKay]

Sammy - you post as much as you need to do

 

 

I like Shadows post, her analogy on gangrene...as um, gross as it is.....makes sense.

 

I know you love her...but honestly, sometimes love is NOT enough. I know that really bites, but there are times where love needs more, because love needs to be nurtured. Without it, eventually it fades...I think many of us have been there, we know. But despite the heartbreak, things work out for the best in the end - we do meet people whom are compatible...sure no relationship is perfect, but we should never settle for less than we need and deserve.

 

One of the sayings I have heard before is "without intimacy and a sex life, what you have is a friendship, not a relationship".

 

It will be hard no matter what, but what happens if this continues on, you stay, and its the same in five years? Only you will feel even more "duty" to stay? But yet you will have faced another five years of rejection...its not just about sex anymore Sammy, its about your own self-worth, and the health of your relationship. This is part of relationships...sometimes you find out that they are not the one.

 

Honestly....and truly be honest with yourself right now..not just us....do you TRULY believe she is the one? Remember the one is whom we choose to be the one, however regardless of that....there is something that tells you "she/he is the one".