Boyfriend touched without consent, should I stay in this relationship?

[rainbowsandroses]

@Lost1Gravity does he now know your feelings and has he apologized?

How do things stand now?  Are you still dating him?  Has he since come to visit?   If so, where does he sleep?

1 hour ago, Lost1Gravity said:

My main problem I have is that the experience has a huge effect on me even after a month or two. Not only with him, but every man or person that touches me. 

Apologies for all the questions but what other men (or people) are touching you?  

I am glad you're seeking therapy.  I experienced similar (much more egregious actually) and with therapy and other support eventually got past it. 

Take good care of yourself and I know it's a cliché but time does heal..

Hugs.

[Wiseman2]

On 4/22/2024 at 12:23 PM, Lost1Gravity said:

. We shared the bed because he lives hours away and stayed for a night because there was a convention in my town  We knew each other for well over a year before dating and we've been intimate before.. 

Sorry this is happening. This is where it gets murky as far as the complicated nature of your relationship. Why is it long distance? And what was your understanding of the relationship and his visit to before this incident?

You don't have to wait 4 months to end things but it does seem like you have unresolved issues with previous incidents and therapy would help you.

But basically you don't trust him anymore almost making him out as an assailant, so why do you want to keep seeing him?  

 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

I also disagree with the concept of "implied consent". Just because two people are married or in a relationship doesn't mean either of the parties has the right to engage in sexual activity with the other person at any and all times. That concept is what many men use when accused of marital rape. They claim such a thing can't exist because they have the "right" to sex with their wives any time they want it. That's just not true, legally OR morally. And that's why I respected my ex's wishes when he asked me to not touch him while he was sleeping. So what if we were naked in the same bed and in a long-ish relationship. He still had rights. 

I'm sorry that man did that to you. I'm also sorry you're experiencing trauma as a result. Would you consider talking to a therapist?

That's not at all what I meant by it.  I mean if a committed couple is sharing a bed and they typically get sexual when sharing a bed then a person who doesn't wish to should probably let his or her partner know that there's a change in their routine. Obviously if the person touches the other person in a sexual way and the other person says - not tonight darling -that's NO. I don't think there's a problem with one person touching another in bed if their routine is to get affectionate in bed.  I don't ask my husband permission before I kiss him goodnight.

I agree totally with what you wrote.  Now the OP says she told him in advance clearly what her boundaries were which he violated.  I feel badly for her.

[catfeeder]

On 4/22/2024 at 12:23 PM, Lost1Gravity said:

I'm not comfortable around him at all anymore.

This tells you all you really need to know. A partner is supposed to be someone we feel able to trust. This guy is not that for you. He's also no the only guy in the world. Find a better man.

[yogacat]

Pardon me for prying but if you were intimate before and you liked it why suddenly you don't want when he touches you still {ok, look at it this way, let me rephrase. How come you no longer feel comfortable with certain types of touching or intimacy? Or is it just that you were asleep?}

A long term ex would sometimes wake me up by touching me and talking to me in his sleep and kind of like you, I was half way asleep and relaxed and didn't resist except to turn down the volume of his voice up close to my ear😉, and haven't but I didn't view it as sexual groping. But I have also been in situations where I felt like it was pushy touching and I'm like "no, not in the mood...".

But I am not saying we are the same or that in your case I don't understand it was more akin to unwanted sexual advances or touches. Yes, he was wrong to have pushed while you were unwilling or asleep, and you have a right not to like it.

What are the deeper implications of what happened? Did it break your trust with him? Frighten you? 

Has something significant changed in you or him, causing a change in your feelings? Something is causing the uncomfortably now? What could it be exactly? See, its not that if you unconditionally started again with him or any man you should just let him, grope you or push the boundaries when you are sleeping or show that you not into it at the moment.

What goes on at night is something dampening your deeper relationship and intimacy with him, but what exactly? Did it detract a sense of innocence or consent from your relationship?

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, yogacat said:

Pardon me for prying but if you were intimate before and you liked it why suddenly you don't want when he touches you still {ok, look at it this way, let me rephrase. How come you no longer feel comfortable with certain types of touching or intimacy? Or is it just that you were asleep?}

A long term ex would sometimes wake me up by touching me and talking to me in his sleep and kind of like you, I was half way asleep and relaxed and didn't resist except to turn down the volume of his voice up close to my ear😉, and haven't but I didn't view it as sexual groping. But I have also been in situations where I felt like it was pushy touching and I'm like "no, not in the mood...".

But I am not saying we are the same or that in your case I don't understand it was more akin to unwanted sexual advances or touches. Yes, he was wrong to have pushed while you were unwilling or asleep, and you have a right not to like it.

What are the deeper implications of what happened? Did it break your trust with him? Frighten you? 

Has something significant changed in you or him, causing a change in your feelings? Something is causing the uncomfortably now? What could it be exactly? See, its not that if you unconditionally started again with him or any man you should just let him, grope you or push the boundaries when you are sleeping or show that you not into it at the moment.

What goes on at night is something dampening your deeper relationship and intimacy with him, but what exactly? Did it detract a sense of innocence or consent from your relationship?

She wrote later on that she told him in advance not to do that.

[Lost1Gravity]

Just now, Batya33 said:

She wrote later on that she told him in advance not to do that.

Exactly this. From the moment we started the relationship I told him I wanted to take things slow. Both because previous traumas and the fact that I simply just don't want to rush into things. He agreed since the very beginning. I warned him multiple times and gave him many chances to back out.

 

He knew from the start that sexual things wouldn't be a regular occurance and that when we are sexual, I'd verbally consent. Only then we'd be sexual. NOT when I'm asleep, not when I'm unable to consent.

 

He broke my trust , knowing my previous experiences with sexual assault. 

 

Okay, it happened once. It happens... but then he did it again an hour later when he knows I didn't like it and tried to actively push him away (I was once again asleep by the second time and woken up) 

 

Aka.  He made me feel violated. He knew my boundaries. He knew and still did it. 

 

That's what's bothering me and that's what's ruining my mental health even now. I wanted to get over it and forgive and forget because he apologised and agreed to my new terms of slowing things down further and taking a dw steps back.. but he's being pushy once again.

 

So yes. That's what made me lose the ability to become comfortable with him

[itsallgrand]

What are you thinking you will do now, OP? Is it helping talking it through? 

[Lost1Gravity]

3 minutes ago, itsallgrand said:

What are you thinking you will do now, OP? Is it helping talking it through? 

This is the first time I actually stood still and thought about everything that happened, and after actually speaking about it, not pushing the memories away, and hearing everyone's thoughts I'm definitely planning to end things.

My relationship with him is new, and if it's already doing this badly I don't see it having a bright future with him.

Relationships shouldn't destroy your mental health in the first few months, so yeah.. breaking things off is definitely the best course of action. And some good 'ol therapy.

Thank you to everyone for the support, it's helped a lot more than you realize!

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Does he now know your feelings and has he apologized?

How do things stand now?  Are you still dating him?  Has he since come to visit?   If so, where does he sleep?

@Lost1Gravity.....^^^

P.S.  I'm glad talking it out has been helpful.

All the best...

[yogacat]

11 minutes ago, Lost1Gravity said:

16 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

She wrote later on that she told him in advance not to do that.

Exactly this. From the moment we started the relationship I told him I wanted to take things slow. Both because previous traumas and the fact that I simply just don't want to rush into things. He agreed since the very beginning. I warned him multiple times and gave him many chances to back out.

 

He knew from the start that sexual things wouldn't be a regular occurance and that when we are sexual, I'd verbally consent. Only then we'd be sexual. NOT when I'm asleep, not when I'm unable to consent.

 

He broke my trust , knowing my previous experiences with sexual assault. 

 

Okay, it happened once. It happens... but then he did it again an hour later when he knows I didn't like it and tried to actively push him away (I was once again asleep by the second time and woken up) 

 

Aka.  He made me feel violated. He knew my boundaries. He knew and still did it. 

 

That's what's bothering me and that's what's ruining my mental health even now. I wanted to get over it and forgive and forget because he apologised and agreed to my new terms of slowing things down further and taking a dw steps back.. but he's being pushy once again.

 

So yes. That's what made me lose the ability to become comfortable with him

Time out. You implied that you were sexually intimate with him before, so I am a bit confused when you say don't like him touching you any more?

Look, I'm on your side with this, if you don't want any groping, or to have sex moving forward then don't hesitate to give him a well deserved knee, but you don't solve any problems by not communicating, but I'm trying to understand how to ask the right questions that are going to help you with the real cause of this.

What is keeping you in this quandary?

You "didn't want to be sexually intimate" that night. Whereas in the past you both were intimate (from what you wrote, if I am wrong, please correct me...). So, on this particular night, he didn't care about your stated new abstinence and that night you just wanted to cuddle?

So, let me ask you, first time ever, that you weren't half asleep trying to subdue the annoyance by not telling him to go elsewhere whilst you are drowsy?

[itsallgrand]

4 minutes ago, Lost1Gravity said:

This is the first time I actually stood still and thought about everything that happened, and after actually speaking about it, not pushing the memories away, and hearing everyone's thoughts I'm definitely planning to end things.

My relationship with him is new, and if it's already doing this badly I don't see it having a bright future with him.

Relationships shouldn't destroy your mental health in the first few months, so yeah.. breaking things off is definitely the best course of action. And some good 'ol therapy.

Thank you to everyone for the support, it's helped a lot more than you realize!

Sounds like a very good plan. 

[Lost1Gravity]

5 minutes ago, yogacat said:

Time out. You implied that you were sexually intimate with him before, so I am a bit confused when you say don't like him touching you any more?

Look, I'm on your side with this, if you don't want any groping, or to have sex moving forward then don't hesitate to give him a well deserved knee, but you don't solve any problems by not communicating, but I'm trying to understand how to ask the right questions that are going to help you with the real cause of this.

What is keeping you in this quandary?

You "didn't want to be sexually intimate" that night. Whereas in the past you both were intimate (from what you wrote, if I am wrong, please correct me...). So, on this particular night, he didn't care about your stated new abstinence and that night you just wanted to cuddle?

So, let me ask you, first time ever, that you weren't half asleep trying to subdue the annoyance by not telling him to go elsewhere whilst you are drowsy?

Like I said,  I did, in fact, communicate many times that I only want be intimate when I can verbally give consent. Only when asked. 

Yes, we've done it before..  because I gave consent and things led up to it.

 

That night I was asleep, I didn't consent. Nothing led up to it. He started it on his own. That's what makes me uncomfortable with his touch. He violated my wishes and broke my trust after I communicated to him exactly what I want and expect.. aka communication before sex.

 

He didn't just touch me. He got between my legs. Touched my most private parts without my consent twice when both times I tried to push him away. 

 

I didn't not communicate. I did communicate. Many.. many times.

 

I don't like him touching me anymore because it reminds me of him breaking my trust and making me feel violated and unsafe.

[Lost1Gravity]

8 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

@Lost1Gravity.....^^^

I'm planning to break things off when I see him this weekend. He hasn't slept here since it happened,

 

At first I wasn't sure what I wanted and if I'm overthinking everything, but that's why I made this post to see if i wasn't just being overdramatic.. but after getting all my thoughts and opinions in order along with everyone else's I've decided the relationship isn't healthy for me at all

[yogacat]

3 minutes ago, Lost1Gravity said:

I'm planning to break things off when I see him this weekend. He hasn't slept here since it happened,

 

At first I wasn't sure what I wanted and if I'm overthinking everything, but that's why I made this post to see if i wasn't just being overdramatic.. but after getting all my thoughts and opinions in order along with everyone else's I've decided the relationship isn't healthy for me at all

This is your best course of action. Your own well-being should always come first. It's clear that you no longer have a desire to be intimate with him. He does not make you feel safe or comfortable.

[rainbowsandroses]

5 minutes ago, Lost1Gravity said:

I'm planning to break things off when I see him this weekend. He hasn't slept here since it happened,

 

At first I wasn't sure what I wanted and if I'm overthinking everything, but that's why I made this post to see if i wasn't just being overdramatic.. but after getting all my thoughts and opinions in order along with everyone else's I've decided the relationship isn't healthy for me at all

Sounds like a good plan, stay safe....

[yogacat]

15 minutes ago, Lost1Gravity said:

Like I said,  I did, in fact, communicate many times that I only want be intimate when I can verbally give consent. Only when asked. 

Yes, we've done it before..  because I gave consent and things led up to it.

 

That night I was asleep, I didn't consent. Nothing led up to it. He started it on his own. That's what makes me uncomfortable with his touch. He violated my wishes and broke my trust after I communicated to him exactly what I want and expect.. aka communication before sex.

 

He didn't just touch me. He got between my legs. Touched my most private parts without my consent twice when both times I tried to push him away. 

 

I didn't not communicate. I did communicate. Many.. many times.

 

I don't like him touching me anymore because it reminds me of him breaking my trust and making me feel violated and unsafe.

Ok, so verbal consent each time before having sex with your boyfriend. Got it. He obviously didn't realize or remember your requests with the way he went about initiating sex that night. 

So, ending the relationship like you did is completely justified for you, because regardless of his intentions that evening he violated your trust and most importantly, he has failed twice to respect your requests about consent. 

You have done your part. It's time for you and your now ex-boyfriend to go separate ways.

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, yogacat said:

Ok, so verbal consent each time before having sex with your boyfriend. Got it. He obviously didn't realize or remember your requests with the way he went about initiating sex that night. 

So, ending the relationship like you did is completely justified for you, because regardless of his intentions that evening he violated your trust and most importantly, he has failed twice to respect your requests about consent. 

You have done your part. It's time for you and your now ex-boyfriend to go separate ways.

With rare exception I don’t think sexual touching to initiate sex is appropriate when the person is sleeping. 

[yogacat]

4 hours ago, Batya33 said:

With rare exception I don’t think sexual touching to initiate sex is appropriate when the person is sleeping. 

I'm not suggesting it's appropriate for someone to be sleeping and not aware that they are sleeping and then the other person proceeding to have sex and fondle the person when they're fast asleep.

I think he was trying to initiate sex. Even after she said she wanted to slow down from their prior intimate relationship to no sex that evening.

Is it the sex on that particular night, or the sex in general?

Not defending his actions but if you go from 100 to 0 in a week or two, after he's been more sexually active in previous months seems like a big flip flop.

None of it matters, you told him not to be sexual with you that night. He ignored it. It’s been a month and it doesn’t seem to be a consistent message put out there after other than asking what you can do or say to someone that wants to be intimate when they see you. 

I hope you find a partner that is more in tune with you, OP.

[AndyPandy]

On 4/22/2024 at 5:23 PM, Lost1Gravity said:

I didn't want to be sexually intimate with him so I turned my back to him during the whole night, but he started sexually groping me anyway, including between my legs and breasts even I tried to shut him out, and kept doing so for a good few minutes with obvious sexual intent. I didn't want this but I was too frozen to say anything, I tried to curl up and tense, limiting his ability to grope me and touch me, so he'd hopefully stop but he didn't for a good few minutes. I was in panic mode, i couldn't speak and tell him off. All I could is try to shut him out with my body language. When I didn't reciprocate he eventually stopped after a while.. but did it again without even asking for consent an hour later.

When he left I messaged him and told him my feelings and thoughts that I just didn't feel okay after what he did and told him from that point I wanted to slow things down and take a few steps back, which he agreed to.. but I feel like he's starting to forget.

He makes sexual comments about me and my body often which I told him I don't like and makes me uncomfortable but he doesn't stop.

And I just realized I'm not comfortable around him at all anymore. I don't feel comfortable when he wants to cuddle (he keeps touching me, begging for my attention and to cuddle.. and when i deny him, he acts all sad and disappointed which makes me feel really guilty) and I just feel so overwhelmed. I told him after it happened that I wanted to stop the touching and cuddling unless I explicitly give my consent and that I don't want to be asked and forced into it but he seems to have forgotten that all together.

People just don't forget something like that. They've chosen to ignore your wishes as expressed to them in previous interactions and that they'd seemingly registered during those previous interactions. As a man, when a woman tells me "no" or indicates that she doesn't want something intimate to ensue, I respect her wishes and I do as she's asked - and that's supposed to be a basic, universal principle of respect and decency.

If a man behaves otherwise, that's a huge red flag and a warning of major problems on the horizon because it means they're capable of disregarding agreements on acceptable behaviour and violating your physical space in favour of their agendas. Which is extremely worrying. The level of entitlement that he possesses to sulk if he doesn't get his own way with physical intimacy suggests that he has a past of coercing and browbeating women into acceding to his sexual demands.

That's not a healthy attitude and if I were you, I wouldn't feel safe around him.

17 hours ago, boltnrun said:

I also disagree with the concept of "implied consent". Just because two people are married or in a relationship doesn't mean either of the parties has the right to engage in sexual activity with the other person at any and all times. That concept is what many men use when accused of marital rape. They claim such a thing can't exist because they have the "right" to sex with their wives any time they want it. That's just not true, legally OR morally. And that's why I respected my ex's wishes when he asked me to not touch him while he was sleeping. So what if we were naked in the same bed and in a long-ish relationship. He still had rights.

A past lover told me that she was fine with me initiating lovemaking whilst she was asleep and for obvious reasons I balked at the very idea. She then made a point of emphasising that she gave me her explicit permission to do so but even then I still declined because I felt uneasy at the loaded history surrounding that practice and wanted nothing to do with it.