What’s next?

[Jaunty]

On 7/16/2023 at 12:09 PM, rainbowsandroses said:

IOW, she would be embarrassed by you, to be seen with you at her company events.

And her concern would NOT be for you, and how being required to conform to HER standards to avoid being embarrassed might make YOU feel (emasculated and unworthy as you feel now) but rather her concern is how it would reflect on HER (at least in her mind).

 

 

Maybe if the OP had a rock and roll gig he'd prefer for her not to attend in a business suit or her surgical scrubs.  If OP feels "unworthy and emasculated," how is that the responsibility of this woman, anyway?

Also, her concern might very well be for him, or "them."  She'd like for them as a couple to make a good impression on her friends and family.  That's pretty normal and generally accepted.  

In any case, this whole thing is a big old stinky red herring.  This woman probably would never have mentioned his hairdo, or at least it would have been in the distant future, if he hadn't been asking her repeatedly about it.  He really should not have.  

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

   if it involves going up to her Beachhouse and the possibility of family being up there. 

Why not bring up the weekend? If she invited/invites you, you can spend time talking in person. If her family is there that's ok. 12 weeks in is fine to meet some of her people.

In fact normal and a good sign that she wants her people to meet her new man. Besides, it's the family beach house so she can't exactly tell them not to show up. It's really not a big deal. Who's going to be there? Siblings? Go, enjoy yourself and be yourself. That's really all it takes.

[Sindy_0311]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

n fact normal and a good sign that she wants her people to meet her new man. Besides, it's the family beach house so she can't exactly tell them not to show up. It's really not a big deal. Who's going to be there? Siblings? Go, enjoy yourself and be yourself. That's really all it takes.

I don’t agree there. Because OP explained how the doctor lady needs approval from her family, they even told her about some red flags in her past relationships that she wasn’t able to see herself. I don’t view this family meet as a casual thing, but rather as a test. I think he shouldn’t meet them yet. At least not according to the past days her being distant… to much pressure and to much effort from his part while he doesn’t know where he stands with her… 

[rainbowsandroses]

28 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Maybe if the OP had a rock and roll gig he'd prefer for her not to attend in a business suit or her surgical scrubs.  If OP feels "unworthy and emasculated," how is that the responsibility of this woman, anyway?

Also, her concern might very well be for him, or "them."  She'd like for them as a couple to make a good impression on her friends and family.  That's pretty normal and generally accepted.  

Yeah, read further Jaunty, I ended up changing my stance on that particular issue and explained my original opinion.

Faulty thinking on my part.

[Batya33]

Whirling your post dissecting how she behaved to you at the beach house - ignoring them being affectionate - all those details - reminds me so much of when I did that exhaustive internal dissection kind of like pulling on a dandelions “he loves me he loves me not “ - it was when the gentleman did all this couply stuff - wanted me to meet his mom asap who laughed and said nice to meet you Mrs. (His last name) and all his friends at his monthly rotating dinner party and then a big friends july 4 gathering where I wore white shorts and sat on a brownie while he played baseball, sigh.
 But by contrast he’d also get all distant. And skittish like when we ran into my friends and I introduced him as my boyfriend.  Drove me crazy. I NEVER asked him whether we were ok or for reassurance or anything. Kept it all in. I was over the moon.  
The reason I did all this internal dissection is my gut knew he wished he was that into me. But he wasn’t. I honestly don’t think he intentionally mislead me.  Despite being a reformed player at age 40.
We only dated 5 months after being friends over a year prior after we met through his brother who I was good friends with for years previously. He ended things right before a classic couples type weekend away he’d planned for us

 Yes from how he contacted me for a few years after I think in general he had some committment issues but 6 months after he ended things he met his future wife who was far more attractive than me   They’ve been married for almost 20 years   I’m not a fan of “oh his loss he’s just a player who used me and his poor wife”  I simply wasn’t the one   

I am of the opinion that when it’s right and copacetic and comfy and two people are on the same wavelength that level of dissection is extremely rare and easily resolved. And by contrast your sort of constant analysis is one reason I don’t see you two as a good match despite being good people. 
 

[Whirling D]

22 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Where is the enthusiasm? How is it you don’t even can tell whether she appreciated the activities you proposed. Is that lady a ice cube? If a man I’m dating for a few weeks, that I supposedly “love”, proposes me activities or things to do together in the future, I show some genuine enthusiasm… maybe I’m to transparent but this is also how you build connection to people, by showing you appreciate the efforts made and the time spent together…. 

It’s not like that Sindy.  The things that we did when she was at my house that I took her out to do were different than anything she normally would do.

For example, I found this lovely little remote blueberry farm near me and we went to pick some berries for about 25 minutes. I thought it was awesome, and she seemed to enjoy it. She said she’s never picked any kind of berries before, so it was a new experience for her. At the end, I was chatting with the owner for about 10 minutes, and she was fairly quiet, and then in the car I asked her if she had been getting antsy while I was chatting, and she said she was because she was getting hot. It was fairly hot that day, and I think she was standing in the sun, which she doesn’t like to do without sunscreen.

I think later that night we went out and had homemade ice cream at this cool little farmstand near here. Not exactly nightlife, and ice cream isn’t her favorite thing in the world, but we enjoyed each other‘s company. Overall it was a pretty low profile weekend.

I believe it was at the end of that weekend when we were Hanging out embracing for our last moments that she thanked me specifically for all the different things that we did. That was very sweet of her, and it meant a lot to me that she did that. I’ve done that with her, as well.

now I remember about what we were talking about recently that referred to her and I doing things in the future…

When she was at my house the weekend before last, I sat with her while she watched about three episodes of a drama show on Netflix. I sat next to her and kept an eye on the show and worked on my guitar at the same time.

i’ve already told this story, but as we were preparing to leave, I told her not to continue watching it when she got home, because I would enjoy watching it with her.  She seemed happy that I said that, and had a look on her face of appreciation that and joy I was willing to sit with her in the future watch the shows with her. I think she was kind of surprised!  She knows, and has a bit of reservation, about the fact that I told her when I met her it was hard for me to sit idle like that for Any length of time.  I think it was meaningful to her but I offered to do that in the future.

so, I think it was last night… When she was sitting in front of the TV when I video called, I joked with her and said, “so… Did you watch any more of that show that we were watching?”  She replied with kind of a smile on her face and said, “No… Because you told me not to, and said that we would watch it together…!“

so, the more I think about it, the more I think that this is mostly in my head… Mostly but not all.

 

[Whirling D]

43 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Maybe if the OP had a rock and roll gig he'd prefer for her not to attend in a business suit or her surgical scrubs.  If OP feels "unworthy and emasculated," how is that the responsibility of this woman, anyway?

Also, her concern might very well be for him, or "them."  She'd like for them as a couple to make a good impression on her friends and family.  That's pretty normal and generally accepted.  

In any case, this whole thing is a big old stinky red herring.  This woman probably would never have mentioned his hairdo, or at least it would have been in the distant future, if he hadn't been asking her repeatedly about it.  He really should not have.  

Jaunty… she made it pretty clear what her issue was with the hair thing at her professional gatherings. She said she’s too shy and awkward to wanna have to deal with anybody that might have any problem with it.  Those aren’t the exact words, but pretty close. You can draw your own conclusion with that.  Everyone has a different take on it.
 

And also, I can only really think that there was one conversation about my hair prior to that one, and it was wsy back near the end of April when I was on vacation. Other than that, it hasn’t really come up until she brought it up at the beach house during that conversation. It came up a second time that weekend, or the next weekend, which is where I kind of got a little bit defensive about it. As I believe I should have. But everybody has a different take on it. 

[Whirling D]

44 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why not bring up the weekend? If she invited/invites you, you can spend time talking in person. If her family is there that's ok. 12 weeks in is fine to meet some of her people.

In fact normal and a good sign that she wants her people to meet her new man. Besides, it's the family beach house so she can't exactly tell them not to show up. It's really not a big deal. Who's going to be there? Siblings? Go, enjoy yourself and be yourself. That's really all it takes.

If she ends up, inviting me, and I expect she will, that’s the only choice I have, and I will do what I always do… I may tell her I’m a bit anxious going in, which she would expect, and she would likely say to me, under certain similar circumstances, and I’ll walk in with a smile on my face and my hand out open to greet them. 
 

I’m certainly not the life of the party, but I usually approach people with a smile on my face, and a willingness to engage. I think she admires that a little bit, because I suspect it’s hard for her to do that. She is much more reserved and quiet than I am under such circumstances. At least that’s what she has said. She didn’t say a lot to the ladies at the blueberry stand, either, but she may have chirped in a little, I don’t remember.

[rainbowsandroses]

7 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Jaunty… she made it pretty clear what her issue was with the hair thing at her professional gatherings. She said she’s too shy and awkward to wanna have to deal with anybody that might have any problem with it.  Those aren’t the exact words, but pretty close. You can draw your own conclusion with that.  Everyone has a different take on it.
 

And also, I can only really think that there was one conversation about my hair prior to that one, and it was wsy back near the end of April when I was on vacation. Other than that, it hasn’t really come up until she brought it up at the beach house during that conversation. It came up a second time that weekend, or the next weekend, which is where I kind of got a little bit defensive about it. As I believe I should have. But everybody has a different take on it. 

So.... what exactly does your hair look like?  You've been posting so much about it, it would be nice to have a visual. 

How long is it?  What color?  Is it parted in the middle?  Do you have bangs?  Is it layered? 

Washed every day and kept clean? 

It's difficult to get a sense of what bothers her about it at professional events without seeing a pic or having a visual.

[Whirling D]

30 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Whirling your post dissecting how she behaved to you at the beach house - ignoring them being affectionate - all those details - reminds me so much of when I did that exhaustive internal dissection kind of like pulling on a dandelions “he loves me he loves me not “ - it was when the gentleman did all this couply stuff - wanted me to meet his mom asap who laughed and said nice to meet you Mrs. (His last name) and all his friends at his monthly rotating dinner party and then a big friends july 4 gathering where I wore white shorts and sat on a brownie while he played baseball, sigh.
 But by contrast he’d also get all distant. And skittish like when we ran into my friends and I introduced him as my boyfriend.  Drove me crazy. I NEVER asked him whether we were ok or for reassurance or anything. Kept it all in. I was over the moon.  
The reason I did all this internal dissection is my gut knew he wished he was that into me. But he wasn’t. I honestly don’t think he intentionally mislead me.  Despite being a reformed player at age 40.
We only dated 5 months after being friends over a year prior after we met through his brother who I was good friends with for years previously. He ended things right before a classic couples type weekend away he’d planned for us

 Yes from how he contacted me for a few years after I think in general he had some committment issues but 6 months after he ended things he met his future wife who was far more attractive than me   They’ve been married for almost 20 years   I’m not a fan of “oh his loss he’s just a player who used me and his poor wife”  I simply wasn’t the one   

I am of the opinion that when it’s right and copacetic and comfy and two people are on the same wavelength that level of dissection is extremely rare and easily resolved. And by contrast your sort of constant analysis is one reason I don’t see you two as a good match despite being good people. 
 

Maybe… I hear what you are saying.
 

I think in my case, the pickin’s are slim, so most of my analyzing comes from my anxiety, and that likely comes from me believing that she is going to eventually leave. I won’t be good enough for her. That’s part of my attachment expectation.

So I’m looking for clues, and in search of evidence that maybe that’s not the case. because good things like this, haven’t come to me easily. Hardly ever, particularly with a lady in which things started off so promisingly. 

[Whirling D]

5 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

So.... what exactly does your hair look like?  You've been posting so much about it, it would be nice to have a visual. 

How long is it?  What color?  Is it parted in the middle?  Do you have bangs?  Is it layered? 

Washed every day and kept clean? 

It's difficult to get a sense of what bothers her about it at professional events without seeing a pic or having a visual.

Let me think about that. Let me see if I have a photo that represents it well.
 

Nowadays, I usually wear some sort of hat, because I’m quite balding… I parted in the middle with no bangs. I had a cut a few weeks ago, and prior to that it was probably 4 to 6 inches down from my shoulders, now it is probably right at or a couple of inches past my shoulders. 
 

clean is all relative. Nobody would know how much I do or don’t wash my hair. She said that sometimes it looks scraggly, but I also told her that I brush it before I go anywhere, so I don’t know when she would have seen it like that. But it is long, so it will get straggly on its own if I’ve been out for a while.

I don’t really know what this all tells you.

[Whirling D]

This one is a bit obscured, because it’s me at a gig, and it was a year ago in the winter. This is probably how long my hair was before. I got it cut a few weeks ago.

I purposely picked one that is a little less clear, just out of embarrassment… 🤢

[Whirling D]

[rainbowsandroses]

Cool pics, thanks! 

[Whirling D]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Cool pics, thanks! 

Well?

I couldn’t find any other good pictures, but I saw a few wear my hair looked a little ragged. If I don’t brush it, it will get a bit bushy and it looks a bit unkempt.

There is a chance that she saw it like that on a bunch of occasions, because at least three times we have been out and about in the rain, where I’ve had a hood on it probably ruffled it up a little bit. By and large, I don’t think it’s a complete disaster.

Get your gawking in now, because I’ll be deleting these fairly soon… 🙂

[Whirling D]

She doesn’t like my glasses either. She doesn’t think they are a good fit for my face, and thinks I could find some that are more flattering. Fine.

I’ve had a couple of other thoughts and the last little while… I don’t know if they are relevant… It’s more just trying to figure out where her head is at.

I wonder if she feels a little more vulnerable now that she has allowed me to see her more complicated sides of her personality. I definitely feel more vulnerable after telling her all my stories. I wonder if she’s feeling a little awkward, and may be feeling a little self-conscious because of the conversations from last weekend, and witnessing her in her “Crazy“ mode. I may have already said that.

It just feels different, though now, but it said that 1 million times. She’s still smiles and looks happy to see me on the video calls, but I can tell it’s just not the same. Those adoring gazes are just not there any longer. She doesn’t smile for nearly as long. Seems almost routine now. Maybe that’s OK. I guess it just depends on other factors, but I won’t know until we talk.

 

 

[Type O Negative]

24 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Wow. Dead cool!

[MrMan1983]

3 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

It’s more just trying to figure out where her head is at.

You’ve been trying to analyse and figure out where her head is at for days, you should try and give your mind a break Whirling. Sounds absolutely exhausting. With @rainbowsandroses on the idea of getting into reading books least you can get lost in something other than all this needless analysis. Focus should be on meeting up again and seeing how suggesting those plans go.

[MrMan1983]

Ps. Think the glasses look fine and cool pics. 

[Batya33]

46 minutes ago, Whirling D said:

Maybe… I hear what you are saying.
 

I think in my case, the pickin’s are slim, so most of my analyzing comes from my anxiety, and that likely comes from me believing that she is going to eventually leave. I won’t be good enough for her. That’s part of my attachment expectation.

So I’m looking for clues, and in search of evidence that maybe that’s not the case. because good things like this, haven’t come to me easily. Hardly ever, particularly with a lady in which things started off so promisingly. 

In my case the pickings were super slim -I was turning 37 with a loud biological clock. Quite a number of men simply saw that as a dealbreaker.  I knew you were going to give that reason - and I respectfully disagree that is the main reason.

[Type O Negative]

D,

You're rock'n rollers.

What kind of rock do you do? 

How heavy?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Whirling D said:

If she ends up, inviting me, and I expect she will, that’s the only choice I have, and I will do what I always do… I may tell her I’m a bit anxious going in, which she would expect, 

Everybody's a little nervous about meeting the fam. Nothing new. Bring your guitar be yourself. It's not a job interview, it's this lady wanting her people to meet you. 

She wouldn't be seeing you this long and having sex if she had issues with your appearance.  She seems like a secure open minded person who accepts others.  Don't worry about it. 

As far as "style tips", you must know by now it's just a thing they like to do. Try not to take it so personally. 

[Whirling D]

I am afraid to ask her when I will see her next.

It’s not so much I’m afraid to ask her. I’m afraid of the answers and what conversation it will bring on.

Mostly. I’m just afraid.

more than usual.

[Whirling D]

27 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Everybody's a little nervous about meeting the fam. Nothing new. Bring your guitar be yourself. It's not a job interview, it's this lady wanting her people to meet you. 

She wouldn't be seeing you this long and having sex if she had issues with your appearance.  She seems like a secure open minded person who accepts others.  Don't worry about it. 

As far as "style tips", you must know by now it's just a thing they like to do. Try not to take it so personally. 

Well… I don’t actually know if I will be going up there yet
 

Plus, we didn’t actually have sex last weekend. But then again, I had seen her Tuesday/Wednesday the week prior, but I think I was a little weak in that department, so who knows if that had anything to do with it.

[catfeeder]

57 minutes ago, MrMan1983 said:

You’ve been trying to analyse and figure out where her head is at for days, you should try and give your mind a break Whirling. Sounds absolutely exhausting.

Yep! Being anxious goes with the territory of dating. Sure, there are degrees of anxiety, but show me one person who can brag nerves of steel when they really want a great connection, and I’ll congratulate them even while I’ll doubt their capacity for intimacy.

That’s why I think reading posts from strangers who negatively interpret this woman based on the scatterings of your anxiety only works against a goal of ENJOYING your experiences and keeping those alive in your heart and mind for next time.

Dating is the Mt. Everest of social interaction. For everyone. For someone who is admittedly reclusive and risk averse, you’ve got yourself a giant roller coaster ride.

The last thing I’d suggest to you if you were a beloved friend or family member would be all the ways you ‘should’ doubt yourself or this woman.

Nobody has any better insight than you into anything you’ve recounted, other than that the hormones that form a protective bubble around the start of new intimacy cannot be sustained. Real life will pop that thing at some point, and from there you’ll learn how each handles the fallout of such an intrusion.

And it is stressful. New lovers tend to push back against a wall of obligations for as long as possible to keep the high, so the cave-in can be really harsh.

If nice Dr. Lady is having some adjustment troubles with this, especially with increased pressures to balance the travel and upkeep of a second home, I’d do exactly what you are doing—cut her a break. Pull back on adding pressure and let her play this out the best she can.

When she tells you she appreciates you for putting up with her during her crazy times, believe her. Otherwise, if she ever dumps you, you’ll have caused yourself to suffer TWICE about it instead of enjoying yourself up until it’s actually time to suffer. 😎