From angel to danger?

[Vordsophia]

Batya33, well yeah I suppose you are right. He did say on the phone : "what do you think I'm bipolar or something?" which was weird. Again I have no clue about this man honestly. 

[Starlight925]

This has Dirty John vibes written all over it.

If you're not familiar, find the podcast.  There was a series (I believe it's on Netflix), but the podcast is so much better.

Something is clearly wrong here.

As has been said, he love bombed you, and you fell for it, likely because you've been single and hungry for so long.

There's something odd about his whole story about living with his sister, but his parents are upset, yet you can't see where he lives.  Does he even have a home?  Again, listen to Dirty John.  And be glad you are out of this mess.

[Vordsophia]

Starlight you and everyone here are exactly right. He lovebombed me, I was hungry, bam that's a recipe for disaster... And I hold myself accountable for my stupidity. 

One question is WHY he did that. I mean, it wasn't sex because he avoided it. When I first mentioned it he was bordeline terrified. But he was the one who told me that I should be the one to initiate anything sexual! No clue.

Second question, which episode do you speak of of Dirty John? I'm a podcast lover! 

[boltnrun]

It's impossible to understand why unstable people do unstable things. It's just what they do.

A friend of mine was communicating with a person online. This person claimed to be a woman around his age. They messaged and IM'ed back and forth for weeks. They declared themselves in a relationship. This person sent pics claiming the pics were of them. Then this person said they were flying out to meet my friend. They even provided a date and flight time. Well, the person never showed up and my friend never heard from them again. 

I had someone send me pics saying they were of him. When I did a reverse online search I found the pics had been taken from a website. 

I have many more examples, the funniest of which is when a guy I know showed his mom a pic a woman had sent him (claiming it was her) and his mom said "that's Faith Hill from her most recent album". 🙄

There are people like that out there. We have to use logic to determine if someone seems legit or not. Pay attention to the very obvious clues and don't try to "wish" or "hope" the clues away. And please be cautious. This man has all your personal info and you don't know him at all. 

[Jaunty]

You will NEVER, EVER meet a person who tells you they love you without meeting you who is not seriously messed up.

And this is not the only extreme information you received before getting involved with the guy.

I'm really sorry this happened but also - take care of YOURSELF.  Nobody else is going to do that for you.  Heed warning signs.

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, Vordsophia said:

One question is WHY he did that.

Its hard for "normal" people to understand. To us interactions like that from another person means they like us very much. How could they not? They go out with us, tell us sweet things etc. But, for example, if the person is narcissistic, that just means they want you "hooked". You dont matter there as long as you provide them that "ego kick". That is just one example how "people with diagnose" operate. Its useless to think why, well, because you arent wired in the same way as them. So it would just bring more confusion. Accept that he isnt really stable individual. And move on from there.

[Starlight925]

6 hours ago, Vordsophia said:

which episode do you speak of of Dirty John? I'm a podcast lover! 

It's just called Dirty John, make sure you find the original episodes, rather than the 2nd season.

It was a true story originally written about in the L.A. Times about an attractive, successful woman who was looking for a great guy.  She found him!  And then....turns out, he wasn't so great.  It's about 8 episodes long, and you can find it on your podcasts.

As to why he did this, we have no idea, because we are not in his head.  There are a million possibilities.  

What we need to work on is why you were so inclined to let him into your life, what you were so hungry for, and maybe dig deeply to figure out if it's from a lifetime ago of wanting love that you weren't getting.  There's a hunger there that he spoke to, and it was like a puzzle piece, that fit into that space that you needed it to fit into.  

You allowed him to hypnotically draw you in with just the right words, the attention you craved so much.  Why were you craving that so much?  What from your life, could be from childhood, created such a space that you were so open to letting these red flags in?  These are not actual questions for you to answer on this forum, but rather in therapy, with a good friend, or a journal.

[MissCanuck]

10 hours ago, Vordsophia said:

One question is WHY he did that

We don't be able to answer that. 

We (and you) aren't wired the way he is, so nobody but him would be able to scatch the surface of what motivates him. He showed you from the very outset that he is not stable or rational, so the rest is pretty much par for the course. That's the best we can tell you. 

 

[Vordsophia]

After much consideration and thought, I now realize that he was just either paranoid, narcissistic or this whole "relationship" was a trick to get an ex back, hence his eagerness to put a photo of us on Facebook. I have to accept this is going to be pretty much a mystery to me and move on. I'm constantly ruminating, trying to pin point exactly what I did wrong, what I said that could have altered his view of me but guys, I really can't. No one in my life can either. We are all shocked and confused. 

What bugs me is that I didn't deserve this. Sure, I am also responsible for letting this thing happen, but all in all I believe I'm a decent person and needed no additional drama in my life. I have told this piece of sh*t, the night that this all happened, that I have gone through a lot of pain and he said that he would never hurt me or leave me, kissing my head tenderly and looking deeply into my eyes. So sh*ty of him to do. So incredibly pathetic.

I've been starved of love and attention in all of my previous relationships so that's why, sadly and naively, I believed him to be a good one. I will never make this mistake again. I have to address my issues and have already booked a therapy session.

Your kind words and support was awesome. Thank you for helping this stranger. I truly appreciate each one of your replies. 

[Batya33]

You are a good person who made bad choices in continuing to interact with him.  No one "deserves" to be treated badly in this sort of situation.  You can control in the future how  you interact and maybe this experience will be like touching a hot stove.  

I've been sexually assaulted twice and both times were when I was feeling needy and made bad choices.  First time was a first date after a first meet.  He was very handsy/touchy feely on the first meet -red flag.  But he was handsome, successful, I was feeling like "I am woman/hear me roar" and I could "do what felt right" -so on the first real date he asked me to come to his apartment and I told him yes but not ready to have sex.  He agreed.  We fooled around a bit on his bed and then he tried to force me to have sex.  I had to say no three times before he let me go (he had my hands pinned behind my head). Over the next 5-10 years friends shared with me experiences they'd had with him where he harassed them.  And he contacted me a number of times online and I even ran into him and he didn't recognize me or my name - so obviously this was an MO of his.  Guy number two I met at a club med resort -he was drunk I was sober.  I let him come back to my room just to hook up because my roommate was supposed to be there.  She wasn't.  He tried to force me to have oral sex with him (I didn't) and then he passed out from being drunk.  Lovely.

I was in my 20s. (Now in my 50s)  I didn't deserve to be assaulted.  And yes I made better choices going forward as far as being alone with men in those sorts of situations.  I didn't try to analyze why or what was wrong with each of them -waste of my time. I hope you can get to a place where you accept you chose to ignore red flags because you liked the attention/being love bombed whatever.  And perhaps this consequence will help you make different choices in the future. I'm sorry you've had struggles with dating/relationships.  I surely did too.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Vordsophia said:

 all in all I believe I'm a decent person and needed no additional drama in my life

Try not to beat yourself up over it. This guy was like a tornado that leaves a trail of destruction in it's chaotic path. You're recognizing it now but it's hard to see clearly in the eyes of these storms. You're instincts are still good that he's a total weirdo.

[MissCanuck]

1 hour ago, Vordsophia said:

We are all shocked and confused. 

This is what I am having a hard time understanding. 

You certainly didn't deserve this treatment. That goes without saying. However, your alarm bells were ringing from the beginning when this guy was saying he loved you before he even met you. Then you were alarmed when on the date he was talking about marriage and kids. 

I am thus not sure why any of you are that confused, when you admit from the start that you were alarmed. He has been acting like a weirdo all along. Is his behaviour in the end quite extreme? Yes. But it's not as though he was behaving like a normal adult up until that moment. If I were one of your friends and you'd told me all of this, I would been urging you to run the other way and not even bother meeting him the first time. Why are your friends so shocked it turned out like this? Or did you not tell them the full truth about the red flags you saw? 

To add to that, it doesn't make much sense to me how you reconcile this admitted alarm while also saying you thought he was one of the good ones. Which is it? You don't seem to be consistent with yourself on this. 

I don't mean to come down on you, I promise. I just have a hard time imagining that none of you predicted that this would not end well. 

[Vordsophia]

Miss Canuck only my father and sister were able to see through his sh*t. They urged me to keep my guard up and that this goes waaaay to fast. My mom and best friend were the only ones encouraging me, because both of them as just as naive as I am and also, have very little experience with men. So, I as well as them believed that his words were true and his promises valid. That's what happens when you NEED to live in a fairytale so much. While I was alarmed, I ignored everything that would destroy my view that this is a "soul mate". 

Granded I am as stupid as a box of rocks when it comes to love. I need to fix that. I shouldn't be shocked, you are absolutely right. I felt the bullsh*t but ignored it. It was my mistake to myself.

What shocked me was his RAPID transformation and his accusations. Sure, you like me no more, okay fine. Break it off with respect and don't hurt the other person. It shocked me cause usually when someone wanted to break it off woth me in the past showed clear signs and it had progression. Him though just completely transformed. I cannot begin to describe to you how COLD he was on the phone. Mind you just 30 minutes after he left me at my door, squishing me tight saying how much he adores me and just 16 minutes after my messages saying that I wanted him to stay in this relationship. So, yeah, kind of a shock.

One other bit of information is that when I started crying in front of him he just starred, eyes wide open. When HE had cried earlier I was hugging and kissing him, saying that everything would be fine. I don't know guys, maybe he is a narcissist after all or juat another looney. 

[Vordsophia]

And to add to that, yeah I'm pretty inconsistent with myself and I know realize that. O have no standards whatsoever and flattery and big words and promises get to my head very easy.

I thought he was a good one, despite of all the alarms going of because he was giving me his attention when non in the past had. So I thought his consistency meant truthfulness and honesty. Incredibly silly, maybe I'm not as mature as I should be.

 

[JoyfulCompany]

2 minutes ago, Vordsophia said:

Granded I am as stupid as a box of rocks when it comes to love.

Not true at all:
 - you picked up on his BS (just ignored it when you shouldn't have);
 - you know why you let him lead you on;
So, in my opinion, you're quite emotionally intelligent.

Don't beat yourself up, this is still giving HIM too much attention and giving away your energy.
Listen to yourself, love yourself, have your back - it's a rough but much needed journey for us all. We sometimes relapse but we stand up and move on. You'll be fine. Chin up.

[Vordsophia]

Thank you JoyfulCompany, I truly appreciate that. It is rough but I'm still willing to hope. And yeah I am giving him too much attention, you're definitely right.

Here's to our chins being up! 

[Kwothe28]

40 minutes ago, Vordsophia said:

And to add to that, yeah I'm pretty inconsistent with myself and I know realize that. O have no standards whatsoever and flattery and big words and promises get to my head very easy.

 

If it happens often, you need to ask yourself why. And why are you letting strange men get to you with flattery.

Also get some standards and preferences. Standards are non- negotiable. Like shared values, respecting your opinion, mutual attraction, honesty, trustworthiness etc. Preferences are something you would prefer but can negotiate like height, job, money etc. But you need to have both and uphold them. You cant let just anybody get to you just by saying a few nice words.

[Vordsophia]

Kwothe28, 

Very true. I used to have some standards back in the day, but when I realized how many years have passed with me being single, I thought that maybe I had to drop them and just accept whatever comes my way. In the sense of beggars can't be choosers.

What is disturbing to the people around me is that I have seemingly everything. A good paying job, a very good education (Bachelor's in Theology from NKUA and I speak 5 languages, plus my native Greek), I have an extremely loving and supportive family, I have hobbies, pets, a very best friend and I'm told I'm very attractive (although I think I'm average). So what's wrong with me and falling for these men?

It had also happened in 2021. A dude I met at work, he was fresh out of an 8 year old relationship, but I gave him a chance because he was all over me. He said he was my boyfriend and that we would get married and have children on date 1!!! On date 4 he introduced me to his whole family and ALL of them were asking me about details about our future wedding (?!). They were thrilled, so was I. He discussed (well better yet he DECIDED) how many kids we would have and their names and urged me to get a driver's license so that I can pick them up from school. By date 5 he said he loved me. He cried because he didn't want to hurt me or lose me, just like that, out of the blue. 

The extra catch if you will is that he didn't want to remove his ex from his social media, or her photos from his phone, nor did he want to give her back her belongings. And all of this flew right above my ears. Again I'M SO STUPID. 

By date 6 he wanted to have sex and when I told him I wasn't ready yet, he was over it. Mind you we spoke all day everyday day through viber and we met every single day for up to 8-9 hours. Three days later I ended things with him since I saw he was becoming cold and distant. 

So that's why I'm mad at myself. Because this is the second time I've been blinded. I did this to myself. I should have learned my lesson the first time. 

[MissCanuck]

You aren't stupid or naive. 

You see the red flags and hear the alarm bells, and choose to proceed anyway. That speaks more to wanting a relationship at any cost. Someone who is naive or stupid would not have felt alarmed. That isn't you. 

You need to balance your overwhelming desire for a boyfriend with your own good judgement and common sense. It turns out you have seen this behaviour before, so let this be your final confirmation that if a man is talking love and marriage and babies immediately, it is going to crash and burn long before it ever gets to that point. Normal adults don't say things like that to a person they have had one or two dates with. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Vordsophia said:

 So what's wrong with me and falling for these men?

 I gave him a chance because he was all over me. 

It seems like you have insight into what's happening. You have answered your own question.

All you can do is perhaps some supportive therapy to explore where this is coming from.

[Batya33]

Again as I wrote above he didn't change at all - he was consistently behaving in a risky, unstable and weird way from the beginning.  It's like being shocked when a toddler goes from joyful to a temper tantrum in seconds -the toddler is behaving typically for a toddler.  He was behaving consistently in a dramatic, unstable way- you just enjoyed the thrill of the love bombing or whatever trendy label is in vogue now.  And no need to analyze or diagnose - or muse over whether he will do this again or whether it was because you were an easy target- waste of your time.  Also a waste to keep telling yourself he "flipped" on you because that won't help you make better choices.

I don't think your mother is naive -she prioritized you not being "still single" so she chose to ignore the warning signs and she's not "in" the one on one interaction so it's harder for outsiders. 

I know many women who are academically smart and professionally successful, business owners - and I mean and or - business owners who never went to college or aren't into academics, brilliantly trained professional women who are successful -who behave as you did and made choices as you did in this sort of situation including patterns -doesn't really have relevance.  I also made some bad choices in my 24 years of dating and have advanced degrees, successful professional all the rest.  

I had a best friend whose daughter went with "bad men" - I mean not only players but shady characters -she couldn't control what her daughter did but also was taken in by how charming these men were -I was told to try to talk to her -as you know a mother figure.  She was 19 and she wasn't hearing any of it.  About a year later they broke up -I guess she'd finally had enough -and he trashed her in the community and she became the "pariah" - but I do remember my friend being drawn in by this handsome charming man even though she also was worried.  

[Vordsophia]

Thank you all once more for your insight.

This whole conversation helped me realize that I have been duped by my own self. Indeed, I was the one that willingly welcomed those weirdos into my life, just because I have the fear of being single. I never put myself, my well-being or my safety first. It was always this fear. My dad also told me this yesterday. He can see how frightened I am to the idea of ending up dying alone, without any husband and kids. I can't control this fear, it's consuming me and sabotages my choices in love.

True, THEY find me first. Maybe they can see through my fear. I'm always being told how I look like a very good soul, that's not always good I suppose. Maybe they can read through me, sell me what I want to buy and then, boom, gone.

I don't wanna play victim or anything. I know I'm wrong and I know I have equal responsibility for what happened in my life. I'm just afraid that I may be the "bad guy" in all of this. But yet again, I feel I was just grasping for some love and attention. I had no bad intentions and my feelings and promises were real. But, I didn't have time to prove it... 

All of this is problematic and I need to address it in therapy and with myself. I have to sort things out. You can't possibly know how much talking to all of you helps. I'm grateful that you keep on giving me advice and letting me know my own mistakes. It's eye opening and very helpful. I'm also considering starting meditation classes, maybe it will help with grounding and not getting too much in my fantasies.

 

 

 

[Vordsophia]

33 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Again as I wrote above he didn't change at all - he was consistently behaving in a risky, unstable and weird way from the beginning.  It's like being shocked when a toddler goes from joyful to a temper tantrum in seconds -the toddler is behaving typically for a toddler.  He was behaving consistently in a dramatic, unstable way- you just enjoyed the thrill of the love bombing or whatever trendy label is in vogue now.  And no need to analyze or diagnose - or muse over whether he will do this again or whether it was because you were an easy target- waste of your time.  Also a waste to keep telling yourself he "flipped" on you because that won't help you make better choices.

I don't think your mother is naive -she prioritized you not being "still single" so she chose to ignore the warning signs and she's not "in" the one on one interaction so it's harder for outsiders. 

I know many women who are academically smart and professionally successful, business owners - and I mean and or - business owners who never went to college or aren't into academics, brilliantly trained professional women who are successful -who behave as you did and made choices as you did in this sort of situation including patterns -doesn't really have relevance.  I also made some bad choices in my 24 years of dating and have advanced degrees, successful professional all the rest.  

I had a best friend whose daughter went with "bad men" - I mean not only players but shady characters -she couldn't control what her daughter did but also was taken in by how charming these men were -I was told to try to talk to her -as you know a mother figure.  She was 19 and she wasn't hearing any of it.  About a year later they broke up -I guess she'd finally had enough -and he trashed her in the community and she became the "pariah" - but I do remember my friend being drawn in by this handsome charming man even though she also was worried.  

You are 100% right as to what went on with my mother. Everytime she encourages me, makes justifications for mens' bad or shady behaviors and feels as if I had found my husband EVERYTIME! She tries to draw parallels with my relationships and her's with my father. She does live in wonderland. Granted she only had 2 relationships in her lifetime, the second and final being my dad. 

I was brought up to aspire to 3 things: Good education, good job and starting a family. All of these before 30. I was always told to aspire to mimic my mother who did all of those things by age 24! This left a huge imprint on me and my sister and we have both developed depression and generalized anxiety disorder (both diagnosed). She also has the same fear of ending up single in life. 

[Batya33]

17 minutes ago, Vordsophia said:

You are 100% right as to what went on with my mother. Everytime she encourages me, makes justifications for mens' bad or shady behaviors and feels as if I had found my husband EVERYTIME! She tries to draw parallels with my relationships and her's with my father. She does live in wonderland. Granted she only had 2 relationships in her lifetime, the second and final being my dad. 

I was brought up to aspire to 3 things: Good education, good job and starting a family. All of these before 30. I was always told to aspire to mimic my mother who did all of those things by age 24! This left a huge imprint on me and my sister and we have both developed depression and generalized anxiety disorder (both diagnosed). She also has the same fear of ending up single in life. 

I would not blame your mother for all of this unless you were actually abused by her -and even then you are an adult and  you make your own choices.  I had similar pressures on me from my mother especially.  My mother was married 62 years, married young, sister married young (but is now divorced) - and I married and had my amazing son at age 42 and I became the right person to marry the right person.  I too was frustrated with the messages I got from my mom especially and how my sister also was held up as an example of responsible choices etc but I also accepted I was an adult and made my own choices. 

My top three life goals were and are - healthy happy marriage, my career and the opportunity to start a family.  I never ever told myself lies about being happy being single for the long term and at the same time I squashed my desperation which I mostly experienced in my 20s - I worked on that myself -and at the same time I had a fun fulfilling life being single while also never telling myself stories about how freeing it was to be single or better than marriage/relationships etc - for others sure - for me, big fat nope. 

But I refused to settle or act out of desperation.  So it meant I also got in my own way, plus wanted to find the right person for me which equaled not even trying to conceive till shortly before I turned 41.  But it was all worth it and I also accepted -no guarantees I would get my marriage/family -the career part was far far more in my control than the type of marriage I wanted.  In part of course I was lucky. 

But had I been chasing after fairytale unavailable men I would not have been available to be with my future husband and the chance to reconnect with him was part luck and  timing.  Just sharing.  Good luck. 

[Vordsophia]

Thank you Batya33, you speak the truth and I'm really glad you were able to control your fears and did life YOUR way. Congratulations on your son and happy marriage. 

Btw, my mom never abused us. She is the kindness incarnate. So sweet. I am a mamas child essentially! But in all honesty, I have to lead my own way and find what I need and want. 

I wish you all the best. ♥️