Can I ask the love of my life for one last chance? Even though I should call him.. ex now

[CryingDuckie]

9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

So get out of your head for a sec and consider if you claim to have loving feelings for him stop hurting him by acting out your neediness and subjecting him to your neediness.  I understand you are hurting but you hurt him a lot.  Acting as you do is not a loving way to act.  Loving is mostly giving, not a feeling.

It's not for me to decide but I gave him my love. I expressed it in any way I could. I supported him, cared how he was doing, about him in general, was there when he needed me and he always thanked me, I spent half a year cross stitching a gift for him and it brought me so much joy to express my love in this, you can't even imagine. I want to keep doing these things. I sent him warm woolen socks because he always said he had cold feet. Never said that since he got the socks.. Since we met every step that I've taken in my life was to be closer to him. That's love for me

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, CryingDuckie said:

It's not for me to decide but I gave him my love. I expressed it in any way I could. I supported him, cared how he was doing, about him in general, was there when he needed me and he always thanked me, I spent half a year cross stitching a gift for him and it brought me so much joy to express my love in this, you can't even imagine. I want to keep doing these things. I sent him warm woolen socks because he always said he had cold feet. Never said that since he got the socks.. Since we met every step that I've taken in my life was to be closer to him. That's love for me

That's very thoughtful of you to send him gifts.  That's one way to express you care. Most people would absolutely prefer a person who interacts in a respectful way over a person who spends months on a homemade gift.  Now the gift you give to him should be the gift of space from you - act in a giving way not a selfish or self-absorbed way.  On balance you've been very needy and overwhelming and disrespectful of his personal space and time for a long time.  So gift him space from you.

[boltnrun]

7 minutes ago, CryingDuckie said:

I don't understand.. Isn't me telling him that I'm working on fixing myself is a change. Isn't no issues for 1,5 months is a change (as it will be 1,5 months in a month) 

I can see you don't understand.

He doesn't want to be in a relationship with you because you are smothering, excessively needy and clingy. And you want to send him yet another message telling him you love him? I'm sure he knows.

A month and a half is six weeks. That is not nearly enough to make any kind of meaningful change. And the fact that you want to send him yet another message shows clearly that nothing has changed.

You're acting out of panic. You have reduced your life to only messages to and from this one person, so you think your life is over if he's not in it, or if he won't promise you a future. And that's why it's critical to get professional help.

I wish you the best. I truly do.

[CryingDuckie]

11 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

"He has a lot on his plate right now, his life situation has been really really dire."

That = ISSUES

And, yes you can live without him, and if you are ever going to be a healthy person, that is exactly what you will need to do.  

You and he have some patterns in place, but some day, this man will fall in love with a woman who is not you and he will not be available for this any more.  It will be much better for you to let him go than for him to have to amputate you and enforce it.  I know you can't believe it now, but it will be empowering for you to learn to say goodbye and not be a slave to your codependency.   

I truly hope that you will take the advice you've received here to heart, and that you'll find the right help and do the work to change your way of experiencing what we call LOVE.  Best to you.

He wanted to stay good friends and if I don't intend to hurt him by my neediness and everything (I'll break my phone to stop myself if needed, but I will not be like I used to be with him ever again), why would he need to amputate me

And thank you.. But I believe I know LOVE.. Please don't belittle me by saying I haven't experienced it. For the last 5 years I cared for him hugely, I was always and still am worried about his safety, health, happiness. I prayed for him and his family for them to be always always safe and happy and healthy and be alright. Would you tell me how you understand love? 

[boltnrun]

Love is not obsession. It's not neediness, clinginess and excessive pestering messages. All of those things are about YOU, not him. 

Love is respect. It's not jamming ourselves into someone's life because we don't have anything else going on that we can look forward to.

Yes, he's been kind to you. That's nice of him. But what you have is not a basis for a secure, respectful, caring relationship. 

I really do hope you can find a way to feel better about yourself and have a happy and fulfilling life.

[Batya33]

Oh I believe you have loving feelings. To me the most important part of loving someone in a relationship is being a giving person and giving in a way that your person can feel good about -which can take trial and error.  It's fine that you "care" but you have to show you care not by praying or cross stitching as the focus.  By showing the person respect, thoughtfulness, so that even when you "feel" like expressing an emotion or "feel" like hearing from the person you stop yourself because you know the timing is bad, or it would be overwhelming or inappropriate.  And it's not that hard to stop yourself because you are a person who is independent, takes care of herself and the purpose of the contact is not for reassurance or about you but about the other person.  

You are a person who is very very needy and and insecure and therefore you cannot be a giving person to this person in a healthful and respectful way.  So even though you are in love with this person act on that love by giving him space from you.  Because loving is giving and is not self-absorbed.  

Almost every day in my marriage I have to make choices to put him first so that even if I "need" to talk to him I consider whether the timing is right and if it's not I wait.  He's extremely busy today so I was extra quiet and peaceful around him even while I did my work and housework.  Even when I felt stressed - I didn't subject him to my stress because I love him and therefore want him to feel relaxed enough to do his work which is stressing him out a bit.  

I do the same in non-romantic loving relationships.  I don't subject my son to my "need" to ask him (again) if he's doing ok if I'm worried because I know it will be overwhelming to him to be asked again and might make him nervous that I'm asking.  Loving is giving.  Giving in actions and giving of space.  Prayer and making gifts is a form of giving but since you acted so self-absorbed for so very long with him loving in your case would be giving him space from you and certainly not burdening him with your feelings at a time when it would be overhwelming and unpleasant since he doesn't feel the same way and shouldn't feel obligated to have to answer whether there is "hope".  That's about you - stop making all this stuff about you IMO.

[CryingDuckie]

6 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

That's very thoughtful of you to send him gifts.  That's one way to express you care. Most people would absolutely prefer a person who interacts in a respectful way over a person who spends months on a homemade gift.  Now the gift you give to him should be the gift of space from you - act in a giving way not a selfish or self-absorbed way.  On balance you've been very needy and overwhelming and disrespectful of his personal space and time for a long time.  So gift him space from you.

Alright. I can't do it anymore..i don't understand if I'm feeling worse than before after coming here. I'm I'm such pain I can't feel anything else. Oh yeah.. I'm being selfish here

I'll send him a message. I'll tell him one last time that I'll love him for the rest of my days. Which is true. I'll tell him that I think it was a mistake because he said once "when we connect we connect so amazingly" and that I agree and think we're amazing when we're good. And I'll tell him that nonetheless I respect his decision and want him to be happy and I'll apologize again for causing him so much hurt, so much stress, for disrespecting him and for my behavior. I'll tell him I'm going into therapy and I'll wish him.. mountains of happiness and the strongest health possible. And I'll tell him that I should go away from his life not to hurt him by the aftertaste of my presence. 

Of my pitiful, disrespectful, toxic, needy, clingy, all possible bad words about me presence.. 

And I'll wait patiently for the end of my days.. 

You win.. You all guys win, I don't care anymore, I just wish you will all get what I personally want as well. His piece and happiness

[CryingDuckie]

5 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Oh I believe you have loving feelings. To me the most important part of loving someone in a relationship is being a giving person and giving in a way that your person can feel good about -which can take trial and error.  It's fine that you "care" but you have to show you care not by praying or cross stitching as the focus.  By showing the person respect, thoughtfulness, so that even when you "feel" like expressing an emotion or "feel" like hearing from the person you stop yourself because you know the timing is bad, or it would be overwhelming or inappropriate.  And it's not that hard to stop yourself because you are a person who is independent, takes care of herself and the purpose of the contact is not for reassurance or about you but about the other person.  

You are a person who is very very needy and and insecure and therefore you cannot be a giving person to this person in a healthful and respectful way.  So even though you are in love with this person act on that love by giving him space from you.  Because loving is giving and is not self-absorbed.  

Almost every day in my marriage I have to make choices to put him first so that even if I "need" to talk to him I consider whether the timing is right and if it's not I wait.  He's extremely busy today so I was extra quiet and peaceful around him even while I did my work and housework.  Even when I felt stressed - I didn't subject him to my stress because I love him and therefore want him to feel relaxed enough to do his work which is stressing him out a bit.  

I do the same in non-romantic loving relationships.  I don't subject my son to my "need" to ask him (again) if he's doing ok if I'm worried because I know it will be overwhelming to him to be asked again and might make him nervous that I'm asking.  Loving is giving.  Giving in actions and giving of space.  Prayer and making gifts is a form of giving but since you acted so self-absorbed for so very long with him loving in your case would be giving him space from you and certainly not burdening him with your feelings at a time when it would be overhwelming and unpleasant since he doesn't feel the same way and shouldn't feel obligated to have to answer whether there is "hope".  That's about you - stop making all this stuff about you IMO.

I understand. I understand everything

I'm sorry if my previous reply to you sounds bad. I'm in despair, shaking and there's more tears dropping from my eyes than the times I blink. 

I'll give him space and I'll apologise for wasting so many years of his life on me. He deserves only best things in life. And he gave me more love and care and support and smiles and heart jumps than I could ever wish for

[boltnrun]

I'm sorry you're taking our advice as a negative. No one here has intentions of hurting you or trying to make you feel bad. I know I don't.

But I would be doing you a huge disservice if I didn't call it as I see it...that you have overwhelmed this man with your neediness and constant requests for reassurance. And also for making him your sole source of human interaction and affection. That's not good for either of you.

I truly do hope you can find your way through this, so that once you're on the other side you can be happy and fulfilled. You're obviously a kind person, so I do hope you find happiness.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, CryingDuckie said:

I understand. I understand everything

I'm sorry if my previous reply to you sounds bad. I'm in despair, shaking and there's more tears dropping from my eyes than the times I blink. 

I'll give him space and I'll apologise for wasting so many years of his life on me. He deserves only best things in life. And he gave me more love and care and support and smiles and heart jumps than I could ever wish for

I think if you type an apology keep it very short so you don't indulge in pouring your heart out as an excuse.  And no need to beat yourself up.  "I'm sorry I've acted in such a needy way for so long.  I'm working on making changes so that I don't make those kinds of choices anymore. I wish you all the best."

I'm sorry you're so upset.

I've had people in my life I can connect very well with at times.  But overall we do not play nicely in the sandbox so I've had to keep my distance.  Connecting well part of the time isn't a healthy standard by which to judge a relationship.

[CryingDuckie]

15 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Love is not obsession. It's not neediness, clinginess and excessive pestering messages. All of those things are about YOU, not him. 

Love is respect. It's not jamming ourselves into someone's life because we don't have anything else going on that we can look forward to.

Yes, he's been kind to you. That's nice of him. But what you have is not a basis for a secure, respectful, caring relationship. 

I really do hope you can find a way to feel better about yourself and have a happy and fulfilling life.

Yes, I understand that.. I understand it's me being needy and clingy and everything. I see it now, I just didn't know before and I never guessed that there could be something wrong with me. I just thought I was stressed. If I knew, I'd go into therapy ages ago. I would save him from so much pain and. You can't even imagine how. Much I hate myself for all the times that I've hurt him. I apologised to him about it a thousand times

I'll respect him. I'll rid him of my toxic presence.. 

 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, CryingDuckie said:

Yes, I understand that.. I understand it's me being needy and clingy and everything. I see it now, I just didn't know before and I never guessed that there could be something wrong with me. I just thought I was stressed. If I knew, I'd go into therapy ages ago. I would save him from so much pain and. You can't even imagine how. Much I hate myself for all the times that I've hurt him. I apologised to him about it a thousand times

I'll respect him. I'll rid him of my toxic presence.. 

 

You have no idea if something is wrong with you.  A therapist can help you make better choices in how you interact with others.  Please stop beating yourself up -it's an excuse to stay unhealthy. 

[CryingDuckie]

3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I'm sorry you're taking our advice as a negative. No one here has intentions of hurting you or trying to make you feel bad. I know I don't.

But I would be doing you a huge disservice if I didn't call it as I see it...that you have overwhelmed this man with your neediness and constant requests for reassurance. And also for making him your sole source of human interaction and affection. That's not good for either of you.

I truly do hope you can find your way through this, so that once you're on the other side you can be happy and fulfilled. You're obviously a kind person, so I do hope you find happiness.

Thank you for such kind words.. We don't get much kindness in this world and I cherish every bit anyone ever gives me.. You have given me lots in your replies and for that I'm eternally grateful.. 

The fact that I'm overwhelmingly needy, clingy and toxic is tattooed in my mind now.. I understand it all. I was only hoping, one tiny flickering hope that maybe when I'm on the other side, or on my way there, I can be with him, and love him in a healthy way, and care for him as much as before. I'm just.. I wish bad things to myself because I don't know how I'm going to leave knowing that I destroyed something I cherished so much, something so beautiful and priceless with my own stupidity, neediness, clinging, and everything. How will I live knowing that I ruined one of the best life years of someone who deserves tons of happiness and best things in life. Knowing that I hurt the purest and kindest soul on this planet. How will I leave knowing he'll never say again "you're loved duckie"

[boltnrun]

No need to hate yourself or call yourself names. That doesn't serve the narrative of wanting to be healthy, content and fulfilled.

Years ago I had terrible self esteem. It was so bad that I allowed myself to remain in a four year relationship with a lying, toxic cheater. He treated me horribly and I responded by not only staying, but telling him I loved him.

I am very disappointed in how I behaved back then. It was pretty sad. But I don't hate myself. I just resolved not to be that way again and I got help from a psychologist. I'm not like that anymore. And I wasn't a terrible person. I just needed some help, that's all.

[CryingDuckie]

7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You have no idea if something is wrong with you.  A therapist can help you make better choices in how you interact with others.  Please stop beating yourself up -it's an excuse to stay unhealthy

I know it's not proper proof but I took tests online and they all said I had emotional codependency, I read lists of signs. And today after someone mentioned I might have anxious attachment style I took tests as well and got that confirmed as well. 

[Batya33]

Just now, CryingDuckie said:

I know it's not proper proof but I took tests online and they all said I had emotional codependency, I read lists of signs. And today after someone mentioned I might have anxious attachment style I took tests as well and got that confirmed as well. 

It’s improper to self diagnose. Especially a mental or psychologist disorder. 

[CryingDuckie]

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

No need to hate yourself or call yourself names. That doesn't serve the narrative of wanting to be healthy, content and fulfilled.

Years ago I had terrible self esteem. It was so bad that I allowed myself to remain in a four year relationship with a lying, toxic cheater. He treated me horribly and I responded by not only staying, but telling him I loved him.

I am very disappointed in how I behaved back then. It was pretty sad. But I don't hate myself. I just resolved not to be that way again and I got help from a psychologist. I'm not like that anymore. And I wasn't a terrible person. I just needed some help, that's all.

I don't understand why I shouldn't be remorseful about it.. Maybe it doesn't serve the narrative but I did ruin everything. Ruined the most cherished thing in my life. I am responsible and will blame myself for the rest of my life.. 

I'm very sorry to hear about what happened to you.. It sounds horrible and you definitely deserve way better partner than that guy.. And I'm glad to hear that you resolved it.. 

But my boyfriend wasn't like this.. He's the purest soul on this planet, he never cheated on me and never treated me badly.. 

[CryingDuckie]

5 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

It’s improper to self diagnose. Especially a mental or psychologist disorder. 

And also doesn't really matter anymore. Not to me

 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, CryingDuckie said:

I don't understand why I shouldn't be remorseful about it.. Maybe it doesn't serve the narrative but I did ruin everything. Ruined the most cherished thing in my life. I am responsible and will blame myself for the rest of my life.. 

I'm very sorry to hear about what happened to you.. It sounds horrible and you definitely deserve way better partner than that guy.. And I'm glad to hear that you resolved it.. 

But my boyfriend wasn't like this.. He's the purest soul on this planet, he never cheated on me and never treated me badly.. 

you can be without beating yourself up.  Because that’s about your need to punish yourself not about “sorry how can I help “    Help by giving him space and committing to finding a good therapist. 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, CryingDuckie said:

And also doesn't really matter anymore. Not to me

 

Sure thing. You do you. 

[boltnrun]

1 minute ago, CryingDuckie said:

I don't understand why I shouldn't be remorseful about it.. Maybe it doesn't serve the narrative but I did ruin everything. Ruined the most cherished thing in my life. I am responsible and will blame myself for the rest of my life.. 

I'm very sorry to hear about what happened to you.. It sounds horrible and you definitely deserve way better partner than that guy.. And I'm glad to hear that you resolved it.. 

But my boyfriend wasn't like this.. He's the purest soul on this planet, he never cheated on me and never treated me badly.. 

I didn't say he was. 

The point I was trying to make is, it doesn't help at all to hate yourself or call yourself names. Remorse is one thing, self hatred another thing entirely. And making doom predictions like you'll feel this way for the rest of your life isn't helpful OR realistic.

Try telling yourself that yes, you made some poor choices, but you're going to find a therapist who can help you do better going forward.

[CryingDuckie]

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

I didn't say he was. 

The point I was trying to make is, it doesn't help at all to hate yourself or call yourself names. Remorse is one thing, self hatred another thing entirely. And making doom predictions like you'll feel this way for the rest of your life isn't helpful OR realistic.

Try telling yourself that yes, you made some poor choices, but you're going to find a therapist who can help you do better going forward.

Well, I have all of them. The biggest is remorse because I've been feeling this extreme guilt for hurting him for a really long time. And I've been apologising again and again even though he forgave me, I didn't forgive myself and remorse kept torturing me. But I couldn't help it. I kept doing the things I did when once again a worry eating away at me was born in my mind and I pestered him for reassurances

[JoyfulCompany]

Codependency is not a disorder the same as personality disorders are, for example. It's not in the DSM. It's a theory (as is attachment theory) describing a certain pattern of behaviour in interpersonal relationships. In your case it's due to your past trauma with your father. It's not a sentence.
It's something you can work on and improve or entirely transform. I used to be codependent in my relationships and what helped me develop a healthier sense of identity and boundaries was therapy. Years of it.

Your current view of love is unhealthy. It has the shape of martyrdom and merging with the object of your love to the point of losing yourself. Yes, there is some pure love in the whole mix but zero self-love and boundaries. You need to learn the latter. At this point there's no exercise that will help you, you need a safe space without him (as is therapy process) where it's only about you, your wants and needs, your identity outside of the context of a relationship. You need to develop a relationship with yourself.

I'm sorry but we can't support your suggested way of acting. It comes from the same place of trauma response. You don't want to seek therapy to feel better, you somehow expect that it'll help you to "become better" with the sole purpose to win someone's love. That's not healthy motivation. I know that will sound really harsh to you but  texting "I'm in therapy now, working on myself, please, give me hope for the future of us" in a month is just another ride on the same spiral of maintaining your codependent ways. It's like trying to use it as a solid argument that will change his mind. It won't help you in the long run, my dear girl.

I'm sorry you're hurting, I used to be in a similar headspace (I definitely had it easier - once it's over, I could control myself not to overstep that boundary). It used to feel that my whole world was shattering and I couldn't see a way to go on. Pit in stomach, unable to eat for days, etc. So, I know how it feels. But it can feel so much different if you practice kindness, care and love towards yourself.

[CryingDuckie]

7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

you can be without beating yourself up.  Because that’s about your need to punish yourself not about “sorry how can I help “    Help by giving him space and committing to finding a good therapist. 

Remorse is not about "sorry how can I help".. 

And yes, I already got that I should give him space and go into therapy. These things are tattooed in my head now, everybody said them multiple times.. 

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, CryingDuckie said:

Remorse is not about "sorry how can I help".. 

And yes, I already got that I should give him space and go into therapy. These things are tattooed in my head now, everybody said them multiple times.. 

to me it is.  Show remorse by acting in a way that shows you don’t want to repeat the behavior for which you apologized.  Self flagellation is about you not about showing remorse. Anyway I’m mostly done. I am finding this a bit circular and repetitive and I have really nothing more to contribute. I don’t want to give you more of a platform to vent about how awful of a person you are or to go to lengths to self diagnose. That’s not helpful.  I don’t think you’re a bad person. You’re a person who made mistakes in your interaction with another person and now you have the opportunity to make changes in your behavior for future interactions with other people.  I wish you the best. And hope you feel better.