Turkish girl a lot less communicative but still agreeing to dates. Is she still interested?

[boltnrun]

41 minutes ago, viking37 said:

Told her that of course I want to go to the event with her and I am really looking forwards to it. She replied 

"Sure. But feel free to tell bec someone else asked me to meet today already and i said no. So dont feel obliged to come at all."

Yeah, she wanted to get drunk with her friends. Not go to a bar-less garden.

Incompatible. And that's ok. You will meet someone else who isn't all about getting smashed several times a week.

[jazz_lover]

I've given her the benefit of the doubt. She's been giving me a lot of the "don't feel obliged to come i can find someone else to go with". So I used google translate and said to her in turkish "With you it is never an obligation and always a pleasure". She seemed to like that and said "Ok if this is the case then pick me up at 6.30pm".

But I am very confused. I never ever said I didn't want to see her or go to the event with her. All I said was that I'd find it a little awkward if she brought the two others and would rather it was just us.  

[Wiseman2]

10 minutes ago, viking37 said:

 She seemed to like that and said "Ok if this is the case then pick me up at 6.30pm".

Super. Get your wallet out! Now she doesn't have to "find someone else to go" (pay for her drinks, chauffer her etc.)

[Rose Mosse]

It's on, right? The Halloween event. Have fun and pick her up, meet her friends or colleagues since it's agreed. The next time you both plan a date mention to her that you'd like to do something without a bar or drinks. Don't be afraid to speak your mind and tell her that you'd rather do something else. 

You seem hesitant to speak your mind and afraid of what she'll think or say and are walking on eggshells. That's your problem, not hers. She's inviting you to speak your mind and be frank that you'd rather not go on the Halloween event. So what if you had decided not to go? You could have excused yourself and also planned something else the following weekend (not the Halloween weekend coming up). I don't think her suggestion to invite friends along was too mindbending. It was a little callous and thoughtless towards you. It's early days yet.

Enjoy yourself.

[dias]

1 hour ago, viking37 said:

Told her that of course I want to go to the event with her and I am really looking forwards to it. She replied 

"Sure. But feel free to tell bec someone else asked me to meet today already and i said no. So dont feel obliged to come at all."

She doesn't like you as much as you like her

[Wiseman2]

Just now, Rose Mosse said:

you'd like to do something without a bar or drinks.

Sadly he did plan something else. She blew off the entire idea because it didn't involve getting drunk with her friends. Now she can get drunk with her friends and he can pay and drive. 

[Rose Mosse]

Just now, Wiseman2 said:

Sadly he did plan something else. She blew off the entire idea because it didn't involve getting drunk with her friends. Now she can get drunk with her friends and he can pay and drive. 

That is not what I meant. I meant he should be more specific that it shouldn't involve drinks. This may cause them to go their separate ways but he would not be twisted up like this.

[jazz_lover]

Yeah it’s on. No idea if friends are coming. She did suggest that it was ok if I didn’t want that and she’d handle it (although from her subsequent behaviour clearly wasn’t ok) but I guess I’ll see what happens. 

its her first Halloween in London so I guess it’s excusable but yeah after this will try to insist on quieter dates and maybe a quiet night in once I sort out my new place.

Just a little confused why she’s so upset with me when she made a plan with me and then tried to change it and asked me if I was ok with it when the only acceptable answer was yes. But I guess just need to let it go and move forward and try to have a good time with her and whoever she brings with her tonight 

 

 

[boltnrun]

Don't "try to 'insist'" on anything. Suggest a date that doesn't involve bars and drinking and see what she says. If she changes the date to getting drunk at a bar it's OK to say "I was hoping to have a more low key date that doesn't involve drinking. Can we do that?" Then see how she responds.

[Rose Mosse]

2 hours ago, viking37 said:

Yeah it’s on. No idea if friends are coming. She did suggest that it was ok if I didn’t want that and she’d handle it (although from her subsequent behaviour clearly wasn’t ok) but I guess I’ll see what happens. 

its her first Halloween in London so I guess it’s excusable but yeah after this will try to insist on quieter dates and maybe a quiet night in once I sort out my new place.

Just a little confused why she’s so upset with me when she made a plan with me and then tried to change it and asked me if I was ok with it when the only acceptable answer was yes. But I guess just need to let it go and move forward and try to have a good time with her and whoever she brings with her tonight 

Good idea. I didn't see anything in her writing or tone that was upset. She's just making plans, logistics, the good stuff. Don't get hung up on these little things. I hope you enjoy the night out. You can make suggestions for different types of dates but ultimately if the other person isn't picking up what you're putting down this is really not going anywhere in the long term. You don't have to hang on to someone who isn't compatible with you. 

[WaywardKiwi]

Sorry viking,

Could you clarify, she has suggested the Halloween date in addition to and separate from the botanical gardens, or instead of  them? 

Thanks,

T

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, viking37 said:

Even though we had already planned the botanical gardens for the weekend she was keen to go to a Halloween event 

Then an hour later she texted me to say she'd mentioned it to her colleague and was it OK if the colleague and the colleagues' husband joined us?

Seems like instead of. Meaning drinking with her friends instead of the planned gardens outing. Also meaning an alcohol free one-on-one date with him is boring compared to parties and drinking. He mentions that there would be no opportunity for affection at a loud party event.

6 minutes ago, WaywardKiwi said:

Could you clarify, she has suggested the Halloween date in addition to and separate from the botanical gardens, or instead of  them? 

 

[jazz_lover]

She turned up without friends so it was just her and me. She seemed a bit tired and bored. We danced and kissed and so on but she seemed to be going through the motions a bit and I'd catch her sometimes staring into space a million miles away and around 11 started saying she was tired so I took her home. She also didn't drink much. It sounds like she's having a tough work week so maybe she just wasn't feeling in a party mood.

Today was in addition to botanical gardens. 

[WaywardKiwi]

Given your update, I stand by my earlier advice.

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, viking37 said:

 it was just her and me. She seemed a bit tired and bored.

Hopefully this ends soon. She seems so difficult that it's not worth your while. Was she pouting because her friends weren't there?

Besides drinking heavily,does she have other mental health issues? She's seems all over the place.

[Rose Mosse]

6 hours ago, viking37 said:

It sounds like she's having a tough work week so maybe she just wasn't feeling in a party mood.

Today was in addition to botanical gardens. 

Touch base some time on the weekend if you got the sense that she's having a rough time at work. Overall, if this isn't working for you, don't live miserably. As is often mentioned around on the forum, we date to find out more about each other, not to force a situation that isn't compatible or if one or the other or both individuals are too chronically busy, stressed, not in the best frame of mind etc to date. 

[jazz_lover]

Wayward Kiwi (T) can you clarify which earlier advice you are referring to. 

If it is the uncertainty I guess I feel I do not know exactly where I stand and that is causing some anxiety because I'm smitted. She hasn't mentioned exclusivity and while she does reference future activities together she hasn't asked where this is going or anything like that. I guess we have had sex which in her culture is something you tend to do with a boyfriend/future boyfriend rather than just a normal part of dating. But I feel if I bring it up I could scare her away so hoping she will eventually want to have the conversation. 

Rose Mosse: yeah I think I'll leave her to get through her busy work week and maybe Friday afternoon ask if she is still interested in doing the botanical gardens assuming she hasn't already brought it up which she probably will. 

Wiseman2: I didn't get the sense she was pouting or annoyed with me. She just seemed very tired. Usually she is very enthusiastic and energetic. It was a strange choice of evening for a party but all the weekend events were booked up. 

 

 

 

[WaywardKiwi]

2 hours ago, viking37 said:

Wayward Kiwi (T) can you clarify which earlier advice you are referring to. 

Hey Viking,

I'll do my best, although clarity is not always my strong suit.

You admit that early dates were generally dutch (split bills), until she expressed that she would like you to take her out if you are really interested and move to a physical relationship. Personally, that does not seem outside the norm to me, and she has since further expressed it is not an expectation that you bear sole financial burden when going out. She does not appear frivolous in relationships. She has expressed that she has not had any other sexual partners since her last long-term relationship, and she appeared to be understanding about your own performance issues, both of which indicate to me that she is seeking a relationship with a foundation outside the bedroom. Of course, she is not perfect (so few of us are), and perhaps she is more of an extrovert and enjoys nightlife more than you. That is simply who she is, and she has not concealed it, although she seems to be receptive to exploring more quiet dates when you suggested it. Overall, I don't see the basis for vilifying her which some others appear to, and in fact could imagine her posting her describing the same events from her perspective.

From my limited perspective, I see two possible interpretations from all this. In the first, your anxiety and confusion stem from an instinctual recognition that you are fundamentally incompatible with this woman. There may be no 'deal breakers' as such, but as you continue to date you find yourself ill-at-ease and uncomfortable expressing yourself. You are not sure how to get across who you are and what you want, which sometimes is just down to the person. It doesn't mean she is bad, or manipulating you, or anything else. It just means she isn't the one for you, in which case the right thing to do is end it.

In the alternative interpretation, your anxiety and confusion is primarily originating from your own psyche, either due to some previous relationship based trauma or more generalized social anxiety reading people, although, undoubtedly, cultural differences may be exacerbating this feelings. As such, if you do indeed think that, taking her as she is, you are interested in pursuing something, you need to move past your own psychological blocks and give her access to yourself. You can express your concerns and feelings directly, in conversation, without turning it into a deep and meaningful 'what are we' conversation. You already did so in one sense by suggesting a non-nightlife date. Just keep on, and relax. The purpose of this stage is to be honest and reveal who you are so she can assess if she wants to take that next step, just as you are doing. 

I don't know which interpretation is right, and indeed with only the limited information I get from this thread I may completely wrong and she could be a drunken siren luring you to your doom. I am just not prepared to assume so. 

Besides, if there is one thing I do know, it is that you will be okay whatever way you go. You seem a genuine guy, and I can empathize with the anxiety and confusion dating can engender. Just be confident in yourself.

Good luck,

T

[jazz_lover]

She said today she was sleepy and tired and feeling out of sorts. I suggested gently the botanical gardens might be good for us on Saturday. She said she'd rather do one of the other Halloween events we'd been looking at: a peruvian bar with a rainforest theme and a DJ and should recover by then. 

T. I do not think there is any fundamental incompatibility. Our lifestyles might be a little different but lockdown was so boring I can understand her desire to go out and have fun and on some level I share it too. And we have had a few quieter dates such as going to the movies, walks in the park, window shopping and so on and we enjoyed each others' company then. 

In fact I think on paper we might be quite a good match. We share a similar sense of humour and are both highly educated professionals. We both are cultured and worldly. Neither of us are into the hookup culture and prefer relationships. And I think our personalities could complement each other quite well. She is enthusiastic, energetic, excitable. I am calmer, more stable and a steady presence. 

But you could be on to something with the psyche/past experience. I tend to be a bit of a worrier and overly cautious and careful. And in the past I have dated women who were happy to have fun together but as soon as they sensed I really liked them they pulled away and left me. 

And she is a little temperamental and while I agree that her actions suggest growing emotional investment her demeanour and vibe and responsiveness to my attentions can blow a little hot or cold and I am used to girls I like being all over me. 

But yeah I guess I need to just relax and see how things unfold and see if she starts to bring up the idea of exclusivity and a commitment at some point. 

If all goes well I'm planning to invite her to my place next weekend for a quiet night in. 

 

 

[boltnrun]

7 hours ago, viking37 said:

But I feel if I bring it up I could scare her away

This woman has you fearful, why is that?

Operating with fear as your basis is going to end up a disaster. See if you can reign it in or you're going to end up a ball of anxiety.

ETA, just as I suspected she changed your quiet, one on one date to a party. And I can see you're "pretzeling" yourself in an attempt to "keep" her. Not a good idea IMO.

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, viking37 said:

I think on paper we might be quite a good match.  I think our personalities could complement each other quite well. She is enthusiastic, energetic, excitable. I am calmer, more stable and a steady presence. 

Only time will tell if this will become a parent-child dynamic or if you will eventually resent each other for your differences or if you are just new to this type of dating experience.

Right now you're caught up in the novelty and push-pull. That's ok. That's what dating is for. It's good until it's not good.

[jazz_lover]

She was texting me nonstop the other day. Work pressures clearly eased. And she is her usual enthusiastic excitable self. We already have plans for Saturday but yesterday she asked me what I was up to Friday and maybe I could think about inviting her out. This morning she texted me suggesting an expensive restaurant. Will try and push back and suggest something simpler. But it feels like she is taking advantage a little expecting me to pay but wanting to pick the restaurant and difficult to know whether she misses me and cannot wait until Saturday to see me or if her fridge is empty lol.

 

[Wiseman2]

26 minutes ago, viking37 said:

. This morning she texted me suggesting an expensive restaurant. it feels like she is taking advantage a little expecting me to pay but wanting to pick the restaurant 

Well that's her style. Eat drink and you pay. No it's not that she misses you it's that she wants to be wined and dined.

It sounds like the novelty and fun stage because everything is new. You seem to enjoy her spontaneous, flighty, party style.

That's ok enjoy. You probably already know she's a good-for-now girl because in time, the parties, drinking all the time and paying all the time gets old.

You don't need a deep analysis of this. She's hot, she had sex with you and it may happen again. 

Be prepared to rearrange things according to her needs. Partying and drinking and spending men's money.

It's sounds like this is the perfect suggestion because she can eat drink and then be too hungover for the Saturday alcohol free plans you made.

It's not demoniac behaviour as someone suggested, just deciding if you can and want to sustain this and if you are compatible.

[jazz_lover]

Yeah I think that is the sensible way of approaching things. It has only been six weeks. She clearly isn't ready for low-key dates or quiet nights in and wants to be entertained. She's fairly new to the UK, she's recently divorced so enjoying her freedom, and heaven knows after lockdown it is nice to be able to go out and let off steam.

Obviously it is not sustainable long term but historically she has been a relationship girl so I am hoping that if her feelings develop for me and she feels she's had her fair share of good times on the town she will be amenable to slowing down and simply enjoying my company. 

She does text me an awful lot and is seeing me at least twice a week so she must be starting to feel a growing bond 

And I guess if that doesn't happen then I can always walk away and find someone who is looking for a relationship rather than fun times. 

[Andrina]

2 hours ago, viking37 said:

Obviously it is not sustainable long term but historically she has been a relationship girl so I am hoping that if her feelings develop for me and she feels she's had her fair share of good times on the town she will be amenable to slowing down and simply enjoying my company.

It's always best to see if everything fits in the present versus only be satisfied if things will change in a major way in the future. Hoping things will improve in the future means the relationship isn't the right one for you. She's plain rude to suggest an expensive restaurant when it's already established you will be paying. Blowing hot and cold usually means a person just isn't that into you. And if you're fearful of bring up your wishes, that you'll scare her away, that's a clear sign you're dealing with a relationship that has a foundation of sea sand.

But you're in that rose-colored glasses, hormone driven honeymoon stage so it's predictable you've come up with a theory that suits you. Of why she's hopefully, temporarily, Miss Party Girl. You're foolish to assume. It's always wiser to think, "What I see is what I get." And to think, if everything stays just as it is now, year after year, will I be okay with that?