The feminist zeitgeist in the media

[OceanEyes]

I just spent the better part of 30 minutes reading this entire thread, checking links, etc. I don't have much to add, since I wouldn't really know where to start.

 

Corvidae: I see your photo, and in a particular post you claim that you can sing and play the piano, so my question is this: Why is a good-looking, artistic, and obviously articulate guy so worried about the role his gender plays in the media?

 

The reason that feminism exists in abundance and 'masculinism' (or whatever you want to call it) doesn't, is rather obvious to me in terms of the role the woman took not only in the home, but in society until fairly recently in human evolution. Just check this out, you may have seen it at some point, but it gives some good examples:

 

link removed

 

Here you say this:

 

It is fantasy, amusement, nothing more. When you have an advert/article/TV show with the message 'all men are stupid', that is sexist because it's a sweeping statement about an entire gender. I simply don't follow the logic that sexual imagery of women is 'sexist'.

 

Okay, I see your logic. However, it seems contradictory to me that you view half-naked women (and there is no denying that there is a considerable amount more of T & A than muscles) as "fantasy" or "amusing", but view a guy who appears "stupid" as offensive. Whereas I, on the other hand, will sometimes feel that women appearing half-naked on beer commercials with wet t-shirts on as looking "stupid" and well quite frankly, like bimbos. This is where subjectivity and individual interpretation are extremely important - one person may not have the same perception of a particular ad as you do.

 

It goes without saying that commercialism/ big business pulls out the stops to make money. Not all men are stupid. But some are. Not all women are bimbos. But, some are. Entertainment value in advertising is money these days, and some people might interpret a guy who appears 'stupid' as entertainment.

[melrich]

Advertising promotes all types of stereotypes, gender based and otherwise. To try and argue who comes out the worst overall is going to be a circular argument.

[OceanEyes]

Amen Rich!!

[asdf]

I just spent the better part of 30 minutes reading this entire thread, checking links, etc. I don't have much to add, since I wouldn't really know where to start.

 

Corvidae: I see your photo, and in a particular post you claim that you can sing and play the piano, so my question is this: Why is a good-looking, artistic, and obviously articulate guy so worried about the role his gender plays in the media?

 

Exactly what I said before Why worry if you know you're better than the stereotype and if you're looking for a woman who knows better too.

 

If anything, the stereotype makes most men look bad, and thus makes you look better by comparison!

[ComputerGuy]

I just dislike the whole attitude of "Women dont need men, men are inferior, men are worthless" that a lot of women seem to have. While yeah, no one NEEDS anyone, its the attitude of it. And while it does make an easy task of weeding out people you dont want to have anything to do with, it's still very disheartening to see so many people sell themselves short because the media convinces them they are better than everyone else.

 

Now I know this extends both ways depending on the specific point in the argument, but the thread is about feminism

[corvidae]

 

Corvidae: I see your photo, and in a particular post you claim that you can sing and play the piano, so my question is this: Why is a good-looking, artistic, and obviously articulate guy so worried about the role his gender plays in the media?

 

Because I'm one of life's natural moaners and have too much time on my hands. Also it really annoys me.

 

The reason that feminism exists in abundance and 'masculinism' (or whatever you want to call it) doesn't, is rather obvious to me in terms of the role the woman took not only in the home, but in society until fairly recently in human evolution. Just check this out, you may have seen it at some point, but it gives some good examples:

 

link removed

 

When people talk about this sort of thing they make it sound like society landed in a big spaceship and imposed itself on humans, or that there was some terrible war between men and women and men won and used shackles and cattle-prods to enslave women. I mean really. Society was/is very unfair, but women played their part in creating it. You can't say 'men did it! Boo hiss men!!'. Society can often be unfair, not just to women, but to a particular class or caste for example. But we all have to take responsibility for that. Each and everyone of us isn't a separate commentator on society, we are part of it. Anyway, that's another discussion. Perhaps we are experiencing 'male guilt', I don't know, but whatever the reasons people ought to speak out against it.

 

 

Here you say this:

 

It is fantasy, amusement, nothing more. When you have an advert/article/TV show with the message 'all men are stupid', that is sexist because it's a sweeping statement about an entire gender. I simply don't follow the logic that sexual imagery of women is 'sexist'.

 

Okay, I see your logic. However, it seems contradictory to me that you view half-naked women (and there is no denying that there is a considerable amount more of T & A than muscles) as "fantasy" or "amusing", but view a guy who appears "stupid" as offensive. Whereas I, on the other hand, will sometimes feel that women appearing half-naked on beer commercials with wet t-shirts on as looking "stupid" and well quite frankly, like bimbos. This is where subjectivity and individual interpretation are extremely important - one person may not have the same perception of a particular ad as you do.

 

The difference is subtle. When you see an add with a 'bimbo' you think 'that woman, she's a bimbo'. You don't think 'that woman is a bimbo, thereforeeee all women are bimbos. Women are rubbish.' Besides, these commercials are just to get you to associate the product with sex, not to comment on the state of a gender. The kind of things I'm complaining about are those articles that enforce negative stereotypes about men as a gender, not a particular man in question, and there are lots more of those about men than women.

[corvidae]

Music lesson? What a joke!!! WHat good does music lessons do if you are not going to be a musician. Thats a bit like everyone taking accounting lessons even though very few people will one day be accountants. I never had music lessons, and I am not giving my kids music lesssons.

 

A rather ill thought out statement. Music develops creativity, focus and dedication in a child. It also gives them a worthwhile hobby. Also, people enjoy playing music, regardless of whether it is useful. As for accounting lessons, well you do give your children basic accounting lessons when you teach them basic arithmetic, you just don't call it 'accounting lessons'. Also, having accounting skills would make you better at your finances regardless of your profession. Anyway, you don't decide your childrens hobbies, they do that themselves. At least I hope you won't decide you childrens hobbies.

[DN]

Music lesson? What a joke!!! WHat good does music lessons do if you are not going to be a musician. Thats a bit like everyone taking accounting lessons even though very few people will one day be accountants. I never had music lessons, and I am not giving my kids music lesssons.

 

A rather ill thought out statement. Music develops creativity, focus and dedication in a child. It also gives them a worthwhile hobby. Also, people enjoy playing music, regardless of whether it is useful. As for accounting lessons, well you do give your children basic accounting lessons when you teach them basic arithmetic, you just don't call it 'accounting lessons'. Also, having accounting skills would make you better at your finances regardless of your profession. Anyway, you don't decide your childrens hobbies, they do that themselves. At least I hope you won't decide you childrens hobbies.

 

cnx.rice.edu/content/m11638/latest/

 

this is just one page that affrins the theory that music aids the study of math.

[RayKay]

The difference is subtle. When you see an add with a 'bimbo' you think 'that woman, she's a bimbo'. You don't think 'that woman is a bimbo, thereforeeee all women are bimbos. Women are rubbish.' Besides, these commercials are just to get you to associate the product with sex, not to comment on the state of a gender. The kind of things I'm complaining about are those articles that enforce negative stereotypes about men as a gender, not a particular man in question, and there are lots more of those about men than women.

 

I think you thinking there is a lot more about men than women is part of the perception from your eyes, I think there are just as many on the "other side" as well but you may not pick them up the same way you do the male. You say those commercials are just to associate the product with "sex" and not make comments on the gender...well, in the very act of associating sex in that manner it is making a comment on the gender. It commercializes and objectifies women as it does it. Don't you think many women may feel that IS a negative stereotype? That we are empty headed walking racks for bouncing breasts and to hold your beer? Do you not think such images do negatively affect women, and young girls who see that?

 

And, I don't see one of those ads about men and think "that man is a tool, thereforeeee all men are tools. All men are rubbish". Not at all, and I think someone who does that about EITHER sex has a lot of growing up to do.

[Shidoshi]

That was a good reply.

It commercializes and objectifies women as it does it.

However, I believe women will always be objectified to some degree because men are "highly" receptive to the female body. Whether it be a beer commercial or something considered more "tasteful" like a beauty pageant. It's funny because I was at this show that was put together by college students to raise money for something (I forgot), and when these girls came out dressed in very "skimpy" outfits dancing, ALL the guys moved closer to get a good look......including the "ladies." I found that pretty humorous to watch.

[corvidae]

I don't want to get into a debate as to whether showing attractive women on television debases women the world over or not. My point is simply that whether you consider a woman in a bikini in a beer commercial an offence to all women is somewhat subjective. When the reverse is true, and good-looking men are used to sell products or music or whatever, I do not see that as an affront to me, so I'm not hypocritical at all. The media can show as many semi-nude Adonises as it wants and I could care less, but when you get articles saying 'men are stupid' or 'it's all the fault of men' then I object.

 

Look, you can all live in denial that there's a feminist trend in the media, and that virtually all mainstream articles and discussions on radio or TV tend to the anti-men/pro-women slant if you want, but anytime you want to look past your automatic defensive objections you just need to do a search on the internet like I did, and witness the empiracle evidence yourselves. Then you can either accept it exists, or rationalise it all away because you don't like it.